Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

So, as of now, what stages ARE NOT banned?

 

[S2]

Well currently no stage is officially banned.

Some stages like Hyrule Temple are a given for the same reasons as before (excessive stalling).

All lists and opinion are just that right now. This thread is a speculation on which stages are most lkely to get thrown out of tournament play.

No one is going to reach conclusions on the matter until everyone's had the game for a little while and the backroom makes a decision based on tournament results.

 

[25%Cotton]

cool, cool...

it's a shame about some stages, but... who needs them in tourney's anyway? i'll just play them on my own time.

anyway, nice lucas videos!

 

[verditude]

I'm sure it's been said before, but wouldn't it be easy to just ban wallshining? Sort of like stalling was banned in Melee, since if the wallshine is inescapable it could be considered a stall.

 

[MetalGearLink]

But Auto-Walk off was banned because of Waveshining someone off the side of a stage. Without Wavedash there is no waveshine, and no waveshine means there is no reason to Auto-ban Walk-offs.

If Dedede Chaingrab is hard to DI out of, then we have a reason to ban walk-offs...

this guy is right

some people seems to want walk-off baned just because they don't like them

 

[MetalGearLink]

I'm sure it's been said before, but wouldn't it be easy to just ban wallshining? Sort of like stalling was banned in Melee, since if the wallshine is inescapable it could be considered a stall.

this guy is right too

 

[Samigi]

It really sucks that Hyrule Temple is going to be banned....When I used nothing but items and played in a time battle, I used the exact same strategy behind your reasoning..But aren't most battles in tourneys stock based? Cause if we play by stock, the running away really has no effect on the battle at all...

 

[joenopride]

I'm posting after reading five pages and have to way in and say that I think the new F-Zero should not be banned. It seems to be running on a consistent pattern, just like Mute City. Also, wall spamming attacks need further discussion before we can decide if they can make stages banned. I'm quicker to say that people have to be aware that they cannot be beside a wall during those two transformations, and if they get caught, that's it.

 

[dmbrandon]

I'm posting after reading five pages and have to way in and say that I think the new F-Zero should not be banned. It seems to be running on a consistent pattern, just like Mute City. Also, wall spamming attacks need further discussion before we can decide if they can make stages banned. I'm quicker to say that people have to be aware that they cannot be beside a wall during those two transformations, and if they get caught, that's it.

You clearly haven't played the game enough on a competitive level. 60% death is a big deal, especially when the opportunity arises every twenty seconds.

 

[Egret]

this guy is right

some people seems to want walk-off baned just because they don't like them

They're bad news regardless of waveshining because of other abusive techniques like shieldgrab->backthrow camping but there is a perfectly legitmate reason for disliking them which is simply that they eliminate edgeguarding/recovery from the game which is an important element.


Sadly there doesn't seem to be much edgeguarding or need for complicated recovery in brawl anyway.

 

[king_neeso]

honestly i think its silly banning stages, if ppl get these so called unfair advantages in a match they have learnt how to fight in this game. if you are walking down the street and someone pulls out a knife and stabs you u dont go hey thats banned thats unfair. NO SHUT UP. if u stopped banning stages and learnt how to use the levels as an advantage thats the way to win. if you arent playin comps for fun THEN WIN AT ALL COSTS. its that simple. now i will open the flame gates.

 

[Egret]

honestly i think its silly banning stages, if ppl get these so called unfair advantages in a match they have learnt how to fight in this game. if you are walking down the street and someone pulls out a knife and stabs you u dont go hey thats banned thats unfair. NO SHUT UP. if u stopped banning stages and learnt how to use the levels as an advantage thats the way to win. if you arent playin comps for fun THEN WIN AT ALL COSTS. its that simple. now i will open the flame gates.

You are walking through a temple. A fox shoots you and runs away. You spend the next 8 minutes trying to catch up with him but he is too fast and the terrain makes it impossible. After 8 minutes you die.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm not so sure about the need to ban Port town as well... The argument is not how dangerous hazards can be, but how random they are, and it seems from videos that it is always the same pattern like Mute City was.

However, that is only from looking. dmbrandon, from playing, are the cars consistent in their path? Is it that difficult to avoid, or does avoiding them provide some sort of extreme bias against certain character types? I'm just not understanding why more powerful cars has you so set against it.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'm sure it's been said before, but wouldn't it be easy to just ban wallshining? Sort of like stalling was banned in Melee, since if the wallshine is inescapable it could be considered a stall.

Well, regardless, wallshining really isn't an infinite. Sure it racks up damage both easily and efficiently, but it doesn't last forever. It can be easily broken out of.

But yea, I think that it would just be easier to ban infinites. IC Wobbling, Falco Laser Lock, Fox Wallshine... just get rid of them and there won't be any problems with walled stages.

 

[Soma]

Problem is its hard to police something like random infinites... If someone was a big enough **** they could claim you did an infinite just to get the other play in trouble...depending on the punishment... or they could just infinite you and without proof outside of percent... its nearly impossible to prove or disprove unless a witness speaks up... you know...

 

[joenopride]

You clearly haven't played the game enough on a competitive level. 60% death is a big deal, especially when the opportunity arises every twenty seconds.

You are on the nose about not playing much competitive smash, I haven't been to a single "competitive" tournament. But I still think that the 60% is off-set by the fact that you more or less know it's coming. Perhaps it becomes counterpickable because of the severity of the hazard? I will go watch some more videos though, if it's hard to avoid then you certainly have a point.

 

[king_neeso]

You are walking through a temple. A fox shoots you and runs away. You spend the next 8 minutes trying to catch up with him but he is too fast and the terrain makes it impossible. After 8 minutes you die.

omg AHHH be fox. *******

 

[dmbrandon]

You are on the nose about not playing much competitive smash, I haven't been to a single "competitive" tournament. But I still think that the 60% is off-set by the fact that you more or less know it's coming. Perhaps it becomes counterpickable because of the severity of the hazard? I will go watch some more videos though, if it's hard to avoid then you certainly have a point.

If, in the finals of a major tournament, with 10,000 on the line, you have me at 120% and Ispike you into a car at 40% and you die, I'm fairly sure you'll never play the game again. Keep that in mind.

 

[Tinkerer]

Then again, the other player was smarter for having that happen to you. Predictable stage hazards are there for exploiting by players.

 

[dmbrandon]

Then again, the other player was smarter for having that happen to you. Predictable stage hazards are there for exploiting by players.

To an extent.

Dying at 50-60% turns the game into a turtling match. That's not wy we play this game. SF3 is that way.

 

[Tinkerer]

Of course. And totally unexpected events aren't welcome either - just saying that stage hazards aren't necessarily meaning it will turn the tide even while you're "better". The other guy was better because he used them to his advantage.

 

[dmbrandon]

Of course. And totally unexpected events aren't welcome either - just saying that stage hazards aren't necessarily meaning it will turn the tide even while you're "better". The other guy was better because he used them to his advantage.

You've never played this game, you've made that obvious.

Come back when you do, please. You arguments just repeat themselves with no warrant, and I've no patience for it today.

 

[MysticKenji]

omg AHHH be fox. *******

You can't outspeed yourself >_>

 

[Egret]

omg AHHH be fox. *******

Clearly fox dittos where the game just involves running away and lasering is how it should be.

 

[Mama]

Pokemon Stadium doesn't need a perma ban imo. It changes so you can't be stalled for too long and if a part with a wall comes up stay away. If you get suckered into it then maybe you deserve to get beat up? I'll have to wait and see for Shadow Moses Island. I think the stage looks cool. The only time I really had to worry about getting stuck in an infinite in Melee was from my bro and his rapid shine... I don't fear walls (yet) so I'm gonna keep my hopes up about that one lol. Doesn't seem like too many stages would be lost so thats a good sign. The list seems pretty reasonable though I think I'd want to check out the new F-zero stage myself.

 

[Tinkerer]

You've never played this game, you've made that obvious.

Come back when you do, please. You arguments just repeat themselves with no warrant, and I've no patience for it today.

That was just elaborating and in full agreement with you. If you're going to be offended, don't do it randomly.

 

[WiiwanttoBrawl]

this is stupid, these stages are what smash is about!

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Nevermind. I overthought the siduation and jumped on a conclusion too soon.

 

[joeysmash]

you all need to SHUT THE **** UP TILL YOU HAVE Played the game. All the threads with Montage next to it usaully end up being pretty dumb.

Just because a stage has hazards does not mean instant ban by the way people...

 

[joenopride]

If, in the finals of a major tournament, with 10,000 on the line, you have me at 120% and Ispike you into a car at 40% and you die, I'm fairly sure you'll never play the game again. Keep that in mind.

Again, I see your point. However, that wasn't enough to make Jungle Japes a completely banned stage. Again, I'll wait on passing judgement till when I get the game.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Problem is its hard to police something like random infinites... If someone was a big enough **** they could claim you did an infinite just to get the other play in trouble...depending on the punishment... or they could just infinite you and without proof outside of percent... its nearly impossible to prove or disprove unless a witness speaks up... you know...

If you're at a tournament, people will be watching your match so it's going to me retartedly easy to get proof that you were being infinited. Also, if you're playing a Wi-Fi tourney, you can just record the part of the match that you were being infinited in.

 

[Aaryk]

IMO, it will become common strategy to avoid combos like this.
There will always be broken moves in games like this.
Since the A combo has been disproved, and Fox's shine takes legitimate skill to initiate, a lot of these wall stages are good to go. As for summit...Bowser F Smash

 

[Red Mange]

I love how you make a distinction between -fun- and -serious- play. And as far as WarioWare goes....doesn't it take -skill- to beat the minigames? Let's just hope pointing out this won't get me the b&.

 

[Cless]

If you're at a tournament, people will be watching your match so it's going to me retartedly easy to get proof that you were being infinited. Also, if you're playing a Wi-Fi tourney, you can just record the part of the match that you were being infinited in.

How are you going to enforce it though? What are you gonna say, "you can't use the shine when you're near a wall" or "you can shine near a wall, but you can't do it more than a couple times, and if you're Falco and your opponent doesn't tech when they land, you can't shoot them with your laser, or you can only do it 3 times."

What if someone doesn't do it infinitely? What if they just do it 3 or 4 times? Does that mean they forfeit the match because they caught you in a move?

 

[popo12]

How are you going to enforce it though? What are you gonna say, "you can't use the shine when you're near a wall" or "you can shine near a wall, but you can't do it more than a couple times, and if you're Falco and your opponent doesn't tech when they land, you can't shoot them with your laser, or you can only do it 3 times."

What if someone doesn't do it infinitely? What if they just do it 3 or 4 times? Does that mean they forfeit the match because they caught you in a move?

I'm not a pro player or anything, so I apologize for anything stupid I'll say in advance, but isn't that what they did with wobbling? I don't know the exact rule or anything, but I heard that there was a time limit on it where you could only do it so long until it was illegal. I can see that being enforced, since it shouldn't be hard to just look at your watch for about 5 seconds to see if they stop.

 

[Soma]

I'm pretty sure most places has wobbling legal... but its considered pretty lame.

 

[Ryan-K]

I love how you make a distinction between -fun- and -serious- play. And as far as WarioWare goes....doesn't it take -skill- to beat the minigames? Let's just hope pointing out this won't get me the b&.

The idea is that beating the minigames makes you giant/invincible/ some other ******** buff.

While I don't necesarily agree with some of dmbrandon's stage bans based on my own experience of the game...

RULES ARE THERE TO PROTECT FUN. You can't tell me you have fun chasing after fox for 8 minutes after he hits you with one move and then lose because of it.

 

[dmbrandon]

this is stupid, these stages are what smash is about!

They sure are. And the non banned stages are what tournament play is about.

After seeing a few Videos of it, I believe that the Tetra's Pirate ship level should be banned for several reasons.

1) Water The water may give the illousion that it's along the same lines of the water in SSBM were you fall to your death. That has changed in Brwl as charictors swim now. This Makes the stage oddly enough, a walk off stage (although it doesn't count really as one. The stage also gives a huge disadvantage to captain olimr as his pikmin die in water in brawl).

2) Background interference Occationally, you'll pass a floating platform that will start to through bombs at you. This seriously interfears with the match.

3) Hurricanes Sometimes a hurricane will pass through makeing the whole coarse stormy and flings the ship into the ir and back down again.

After seeing videos. As in, you've never played it. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. XD

you all need to SHUT THE **** UP TILL YOU HAVE Played the game. All the threads with Montage next to it usaully end up being pretty dumb.

Just because a stage has hazards does not mean instant ban by the way people...

<3

IMO, it will become common strategy to avoid combos like this.
There will always be broken moves in games like this.
Since the A combo has been disproved, and Fox's shine takes legitimate skill to initiate, a lot of these wall stages are good to go. As for summit...Bowser F Smash

You are clearly a terrible player. Anytime you use bowser as a reason to ban, you're considered a noob.

I love how you make a distinction between -fun- and -serious- play. And as far as WarioWare goes....doesn't it take -skill- to beat the minigames? Let's just hope pointing out this won't get me the b&.

It sure does. It also takes skill to shieldgrab your opponent into arrows that do 45%. Oh wait... no it doesn't.

How are you going to enforce it though? What are you gonna say, "you can't use the shine when you're near a wall" or "you can shine near a wall, but you can't do it more than a couple times, and if you're Falco and your opponent doesn't tech when they land, you can't shoot them with your laser, or you can only do it 3 times."

What if someone doesn't do it infinitely? What if they just do it 3 or 4 times? Does that mean they forfeit the match because they caught you in a move?

Cless knows his ****. As for the Falco infinite, that's gonna take time to figure out.

 

[Volrec]

>Fun, but not serious

so you're admitting right now that tournaments aren't fun?

 

[Ryan-K]

Devon don't pretend you haven't played melee competitively lol he's just going to say "shut up you don't know what you're talking about you never played" like the past 18 pages.

I don't see why you have to justify anything considering it's just to protect the fun of the game so it doesn't get all gay and also to be fair "shut up you don't know what you're talking about you never played" isn't a very strong argument if you don't specify "what you are talking about" or something.