Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

ALSO GUESS WHO HAS A HYDRA ACCOUNT FINALLY???????????????????

like i mean you could argue thered be a D5 and onwards 1-shot cop, randocop, tracker and doctor in the same game i GUESS, but lmao laundry's target choice lmao.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

to go in-depth: Laundry is scum. "wah wah rolespec wah" no, Laundry's claim is just classically a Fake Claim. there are so many little things that don't add up to it that the only way it makes sense for him to be town is if the mod wanted to screw with us pre-game, either the rng or roleblocked unlucked us for the first two nights, and the scum, gorf and laundry were all fully idiotic going into the night phases. let's see:

1) laundry's target choices are ****. when you're scum faking an info role you can't afford to give good results lest you back yourself into a corner. his first two nights are unprovable. his most recent target was on ALREADY CONFIRMED TOWN and essentially useless even if FML hadn't been confirmed town because roles were the only reason to lynch FML. had laundry been town actually trying to read into FML's play, it'd be apparent FML wasn't actually scum - no reason to bring up the role name contradiction and draw attention / start a weird 1v1, plus general solid connections all game. targeting joey night 3 seems reasonable, but he stated he picked joey by "flipping a coin between joey and zen". since when does (good) town choose their targets based on RNG? pretty blatant lack of town motivation, or at the very least it shows a failure to produce actual opinions

2) Too Much / Inconsistent Town Power. tracker and doc are strong roles. vote control is also good if used properly. a day 5 and onwards 1-shot cop who learns some set-up information can be town's ace in the hole. so why the **** is there a randocop on top of this? not only is that unlike any other role in the game since it's based on the RNG, it seems redundant with the 1-shot cop. what's more likely is that scum was given a courier so they had a provable role to go with the vote control ("just because somebody can prove something doesnt mean theyre town" etc)

3) the frozenflame nightkill. why would you ever shoot him over both the tracker and unreliable cop? possibilities in where this make sense: we have NINJA GODFATHER (makes all investigations useless until lynched, bad game design), werekill is newbscum who made the silliest claim ever (he's not on play but even if he was he'd out himself by surviving too long), and most likely, the randocop is scum and figured out the , so he decided to shoot the guy whose dayplay would actually be a threat to him. an inexperienced player would not draw this conclusion and make this risk, but laundry fits the profile perfectly. i also think only somebody who knew what they were doing would've shot nabe too

and i guess laundry has dayplay too, but none of it isn't something the slot couldn't post as scum. with xatres town and mac probably town (sorry zen but its the truth) it really would be weirder if nobody was bussing tbh

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

"the randocop is scum and figured out the tracker wouldnt target him,"

dont right you are posts out of order kids <_<

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

also let's be real, RNG-based roleclaims just deserve to be policy lynched because they're incredibly rare (especially in role-light games with 0 other RNG roles) and let the player take almost no responsibility for their actions

maybe if people learn this then nobody will ever put a RNG role in their game, which would be good since RNG roles are terrible

 

[Lore]

I'm still feeling a Mac lynch more toDay. Laundry's play has seemed pretty solid overall.

Would expand more but I'm at work.

Vote: Macman

 

[Lore]

Actually, Unvote, Vote: Zen. If he flips town then scum is either Laundry or Macman, who we lynch in the following days. Unless, of course, there are 5 scum, but that's not a large possibility.

Anyone want me to make a full case when I get off work? The reasonings all came to me while I was having to paint.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

go ahead so i can explain why youre being an idiot i guess

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

I personally prefer lynching mac over laundry. But laundry's role does seem fake especially considering that the flavor doesn't match up. There's some possible tells wrt him and the flipped peeps. But ultimately if he's scum, gorf did some epic bussing or he is in fact an Indy. Gorf pushed Bardull since the start and continuously brought attention to him thoughtout day 1. It makes perfect sense to me that he chose Rajam as his target. And looking at Nabe's posts from day 2 it is very likely that he received the rajam message. So again gorf is either a busser beyond bussers, indy, or town. Right now I'd like to ignore the discrepancies in his role/flavor and give him the benefit of the doubt which I think their play deserves.

We need to stop focusing on the role shenanigans and lynch actual scummy/anti-town people. I.e mac.

Lynching Xatres is the most anti town thing I have possibly ever seen. I've never seen a group of people deliberately play against their win condition.

Werekill / Rake if you seriously believe we can be scum, you have lost my respect. For that reason, I am not willing to leave the game to you. Normally if I felt I was a hindrance to progressing the game, I would lay down as Xatres did, but I cannot trust that you will win the game. And the last time I left the game to Gheb, he failed me deeply.

Ash, we lynch Maman today. I'll here what Laundry has to say however.

-Z

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FrozenFlame (​

Milan Kolasch,​

vanilla townie) has been killed during the Night!​

​

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

Go town!​

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

if somebody who isnt wl dies today then wl needs to be a fukken policy lynch if he lives to lylo with an investigative role, especially if he does not provide useful results

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

although ill say i dont think gorf's treatment of bardull was that special. more like he kept an early vote down on bardull and went "yeah, i think this guy's scum" when asked why he wasnt really doing anything

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

Werekill / Rake if you seriously believe we can be scum, you have lost my respect.

also yea seriously. *is an active presence at the forefront of 2/3 scum wagons and hammers the remaining third early and is still a viable lynch target*

 

[Lore]

I'll freely admit that Laundry's claim is fishy. However, you've acted strangely for most of the game. Heck, I called you out on it on D1 but just got told that this was "normal Zen," so I've let it slide until now. I'm not going to go back and build a post by post case, though, when your push against Laundry has so many flaws.

Your post against Laundry is just plain bad, in my opinion. The target choice idea doesn't have sound logic behind it; I would have copped him myself if I was an actual cop and not a tracker. The rest of the targets can be explained pretty easily imo.

Your claim of too much town power is silly as well. You come out with a strangely convenient claim (I'm a cop now guys!) with a perfect setup to go after Laundry later (Proven doesn't mean town, etc). Every bit of your claim is just too damn convenient, especially since you didn't get anything night 2. That lines up perfectly from when my track went on Laundry. Looks like yet ANOTHER perfect way to speak out against Laundry: "I obviously got roleblocked, not him!"

Your third point is WIFOM, pure and simple. There are a million different reasons why scum could have killed FF, especially given how strong a town player he is.


On another note, your fake claim as Tracker seemed pretty conveniently timed for right after the Night I did it. Plus there was literally no reason for FF to not claim VT unless you somehow hit the magic bullet and guessed right. Nothing was really gained from FF from it other than reactions.

Is there a role that lets you know what you're targeted by? Has anyone seen anything like that? I'm curious.


Anyway, I'm all for lynching you then Laundry then Mac, in that order if you surprise me and flip town.

 

[Lore]

also yea seriously. *is an active presence at the forefront of 2/3 scum wagons and hammers the remaining third early and is still a viable lynch target*

"Look at me guys! I was on all the wagons and even hammered one! I'm so town!"

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

"Look at me guys! I was on all the wagons and even hammered one! I'm so town!"

well that is one of the many reasons we r town yes

Your post against Laundry is just plain bad, in my opinion. The target choice idea doesn't have sound logic behind it; I would have copped him myself if I was an actual cop and not a tracker.

ok but just because youre dumb doesnt excuse laundry from being dumb. fml was clear from the n3 track. there is no reason to scan a cleared player. like, absolutely zero reason. "oh im sure theyre a NINJA DOUBLEVOTEMAKER/VOTEBLOCKER" yeah no this isnt even debatable

and the lack of care put into the n3 target is still hell of scummy

Looks like yet ANOTHER perfect way to speak out against Laundry: "I obviously got roleblocked, not him!"

nobody even said this. you are literally putting words in my mouth to attack me wtf. for whats it worth our ability is passive, i asked the mod if roleblocking would stop us from learning anything ages ago and he said he couldnt answer

Nothing was really gained from FF from it other than reactions.

reactions are a gain fyi

Your third point is WIFOM, pure and simple. There are a million different reasons why scum could have killed FF, especially given how strong a town player he is.

maybe if this was night 1 and not the night after two investigative roles claimed and neither were shot. that doesnt happen for no reason, you can argue its "wifom" but theres always a truth behind wifom & the point is tofigure out that truth

most of youre post talks about how you think zen is "weird" (catching & lynching scum is pretty weird i guess) or how you disagree w/ my case but that doesnt rly make our slot scum....

Vote: Mac
zen still wants this i think. im going to scan laundry tonight. if he was scum godfather he wouldnt ahve claimed a cop variant because he'd expect a CC. if scum is scared of my result then they have to nk us or laundry, either way eliminating a lynch target.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

And the last time I left the game to Gheb, he failed me deeply.

Wtf are you talking about.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

k well at this point, seems like i might be lynch fodder for some scum's diabolical plan - i would request that i don't get quicklynched kthanks


zenshemu - i'm confused by the WL suspicion. Are you saying that you're a 1-time cop that only gets the power late game? And that you used that power on WL last night and he flipped scum?

how do we know WL targeted FML, did someone claim a message?

Why did FF die last night with two supposed information PRs still alive?

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

really this game is won i think

optimal play is to lynch a VT today

gheb and fml are clear, werekill is obvtown or getting outed by the fact that he's living to lylo with a tracker claim
following a mac or joey death scum is forced to kill between me and laundry tonight, eliminating another lynch target, or pander to godfather paranoia (still clears laundry if he scans town - again, godfather would expect a real cop and not claim cop)

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

werekill claimed wl's message
i got a scan last night. i am going to use it on laundry tonight

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Your post against Laundry is just plain bad, in my opinion. The target choice idea doesn't have sound logic behind it; I would have copped him myself if I was an actual cop and not a tracker. The rest of the targets can be explained pretty easily imo.

why would WL target FML if you already tracked him? we know there is someone out there doing the kills

Your third point is WIFOM, pure and simple. There are a million different reasons why scum could have killed FF, especially given how strong a town player he is.

can't just throw this away with "oh but its wifom" pretty much everything is wifom but tryna understand why this is occurring is important.

 

[Lore]

About to drive for about an hour, but a quick response.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, Zen. I'm just saying your claim is awfully convenient to go after Laundry.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Zen, I agree that Laundry's claim and his targets are looking increasingly whack. However there's still the fact that they are revealed by other players. You got an explanation for that?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

messenger is the explanation

For semi clears we have Zen and Laundry, thanks to the tracks. I'm more inclined to believe Laundry's claim, especially since Zen was a N1 track.

you tracked zen / WL n1 and n2? What were the results?

 

[Inglorious Retards]

messenger is the explanation

Mafia messenger?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Mafia messenger?

yea

 

[Inglorious Retards]

... would rather lynch WL than Macman, probably Zen too. Pretty sure that the play is between them two now, especially with their borderline contradictory claims.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't see whats contradictory between zen and WL,

is it the fact that zenshemu is a 1 shot cop now? Is it really far fetched for both roles to be in the same game?

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Maybe it's the similar amnesiac-type of flavor that makes me think that way.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

all posts under this acc but the one zen signed have been ashemu ftr, zen wants to lynch mac still. id rather adhere to my plan since i think itd render the game unwinnable for scum - me, mac, joey and laundry should be the only valid lynch targets and that plan forces scum to remove one

 

[#HBC | Mac]

following a mac or joey death scum is forced to kill between me and laundry tonight, eliminating another lynch target, or pander to godfather paranoia (still clears laundry if he scans town - again, godfather would expect a real cop and not claim cop)

i don't really get the logic behind this, but it seems im confused by a lot of things lately

3-5 scummers is a pretty useless piece of information.

@zenshemu, why assume there isn't another scum faction with 2 players and an actual nightkill?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Given the claims that have come out so far I can get on board with lynching Mac or Xatres. I really wanna lynch gorf's slot but with a claim like that with us so far ahead it would be kind of irresponsible. I've had a gut town read on Joey most of the game and that investigation result makes me feel more confident in that so he can stick around.

would scumjoey reallly kill FF after he says something like this

assuming joey is paying attention to the thread that is

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I don't think he is.

But the question why somebody'd kill Frozen over them claimed PRs is what's really important. As far as I can see, nobody had a good reason to that?

 

[Lore]

you tracked zen / WL n1 and n2? What were the results?

Yes? I said it several pages ago. No visits on both.

@Gheb I'm guessing the nk was to both get rid of a strong town player and throw doubt on claimed prs, but the only pr I'm heavily doubting is Zen.

(Apologies to Ash, I'm just using Zen as shorthand for your slot)

 

[Inglorious Retards]

At this point, I'm kinda doubting all PRs except FML ...

 

[#HBC | Mac]

N2 I tracked Gorf and got a no visit, which is why I specifically asked Laundry about what he gets after an investigation. I assume that if it failed due to roleblock, he would never know if it did. Still a bit fishy, but eh. Discussion is maybe needed.

this is pretty fishy

i still don't see zenshemscum, even more solidified with this post by FF

I want to lynch Mac because if anyone is an indy I feel like its gotta be him

I want to lynch Gheb because Ive had a weak read on him all game and I don't think he has as much distance from the flipped scum as most of the people I think are pretty townie this game

I want to lynch WL because no movement on N2 despite claiming power use sketches me the **** out

I want to lynch Xatres because I don't have him as a solid townread like FML and his power could be a serious ****ing liability in late game, or a devastating super alpha strike tool if he's scum.

Need people to answer all the **** I asked about in my last post though

I don't see why zenshemu as scum would get rid off FF a players whose down to HBC a ton of ppl other than him

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

We can lynch Laundry. Still would like to see what he has to say.

-Z

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

Mac, two scum teams actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't think of it since all the flip have been the same colour.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

Our role basically starts out remembering things that aren't if much use. General mod info that's already known. It's made to get progressively more useful until we finally regain our full memory and become cop.

Werekill you're silly if you think we made up such a role when we would have been just as fine claiming vt. Why would we as scum make a janky fake claim just for the purpose I'd lynching laundry. All it would do is condemn us when we were already town read by most of the game.

-Z

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I have a really hard time seeing two scum-teams in this set-up tbh. Why did we never have more than one kill each Night? I don't think this kind of speculation will do us any good right now.

 

[Ｚｅｎ✦ｓｈｅｍｕ]

I have a really hard time seeing two scum-teams in this set-up tbh. Why did we never have more than one kill each Night? I don't think this kind of speculation will do us any good right now.

We lynched the poisoner day 1. It really doesn't matter though. -Z