Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[Jerkus]

What's with the hostility lol?

To answer your question, I ask you to move your vote to someone that has a chance to be lynched (and I'm assuming you don't want to move it to Jerkus). A lot of peeps are V/LA and we have 1-2 days left and I would like to make sure we don't end up no lynching.

As for the meta thing, not sure what that's all about, but meta is a natural argument for a close nit group of people. Not only is it natural, but it is logical. There's nothing wrong with it at all actually in my opinion. We can talk about it more after the game

I may join in the conversation post-game because I find meta as not something that should be used as the crux of finding someone scum like this playerlist thinks otherwise. Gorf says its a fad, but it's more so just a weakness of DGames towns and lazy reasoning.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

Guessing Ran went Question heavy or something while I was gone, because I'm seeing a lot of "we got asked too many questions" when I read this page.

I'll read up.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

HO boy, let's make this an actual thing at one point, i TOTALLY wanna be in on this meta thing.

zen being mad vla makes me

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

hmm, guess I gotta work on this tomarrow, too tired atm.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@#HBC | Zen
So then why bring up the idea of a triple vote thing at all? When you joined in and stared using context that insinuated that there would be cohesion such as "our vote" or that you would only move your vote if I did, it only became natural for me to ask you about what you thought. This entire voting block caught me off guard because I've never had to deal with such a thing. The other time in FFtA I merely avoided it.

As far as my vote on Jerkus, I have actually softened in my stance on them. Before, I left my vote on them because of them avoiding/ignoring the early questions they had to face especially in regard to the late attempt at a BarDull wagon, and the shoddy Mac push. Those were generally gross but after the read up and getting caught up for the most part, I'm seeing Jerkus in a more town light. That started with the interactions with Xatres. For some reason or another, I'm taking the frustration from Jerkus as a town feel. The frustration stemming from the, during the Xatres AtE case has given me a genuine feeling of town from Jerkus thanks to the emotions exhibited from Jerkus. It doesn't seem like much and I would like to see them be a little more open about things asked of them, but tying that together with their 836 & 839 has made me feel better about them (aside from the vote on me but I understand it since I've kinda been in their top 3 since forever ago and we are starting to run low on time to hit new avenues) In 836 especially I agree with their thoughts on iLuv and I'm willing to get that party started. Think you can come to a compromise and explore this route some more? There is still time before the deadline but I feel like its going to be difficult since a good chunk of peeps have V/LA'ed.

Unvote

Your tidbit about using meta on others and having meta used against or ignored makes me feel better about your slot as well Jerkus since its further hitting on what I mentioned about your genuine frustration and it makes me want to explore the idea of pursuing iluv. Setting aside what is known about Ran's town meta. Its been something that has been hit all game, the idea of "how can they get away with the reasoning that they are using" and the quality of their pushes which has been lacking. The attempt at FML was bleh. Again, stripping that slot of their meta and what you get is a slot that has scummed it up in my eyes.

To answer the other stuff, I think scum lies in the inactive pile and iLuv for the moment. I'm also alright with Joey for now. He's been really level-headed in his play and his logic with some of his reasoning has been really sound. Nothing jumps out at me immediately but I'll delve deeper just to be sure.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

at first i was like "oh hey i can feel scary's from a town pov about liking jerkus," but then he mentioned iluv...

scary let me be frank: i don't believe your scum read on iluv.

Its been something that has been hit all game, the idea of "how can they get away with the reasoning that they are using" and the quality of their pushes which has been lacking. The attempt at FML was bleh. Again, stripping that slot of their meta and what you get is a slot that has scummed it up in my eyes.

you are NOT gonna get away with this bull**** ass read. this is about as general as it gets. i swear the most you go into YOUR BIGGEST SCUM READ is that "the attempt at FML was bleh," which in and of itself explains little. so yea, if you're town do us a favor and save your slot.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

also what is your perception of the inactive pile?

 

[Nameless]

Vote Count

1. Nabe
2. Gorf
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (4) - th3kuzinator, ilovegiraffes, Macman, Xatres
4. FrozenFlame (1) - BarDulL
5. Macman (1) - Werekill
6. BarDulL
7. Ilovegiraffes (Red Ryu/Ranmaru)
8. th3kuzinator
9. ScaryLB59 (3) - Zen, Gorf, Jerkus
10. Gheb_01
11. Xatres
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (3) - Gheb_01, Nabe, Frozenflame
13. Joey
14. Werekill
15. Zen

Not voting: FullMetalLynch, Joey, ScaryLB59

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Vote:Scary

 

[Lore]

Ok, read time!

My top town reads at the moment are Jerkus and Joey. Their reads and approaches feel genuine, and I usually find myself nodding my head as I read their stuff. I know agreeing with someone isn't enough for a full town read, but it's ****ing D1 so I'm fine with it.

FML is also a fairly good townlean, but I'm not entirely sold on him. I will have to see more as the game goes on.

Gorf has a few town points in his favor, but as a couple other people have pointed out he has kinda *********** a few wagons and pushed to lynch inactives. We get nothing from an inactive lynch other than culling a useless player so naturally I dislike the idea as I said before. He's null as **** to me, and I will easily lean towards him being scum if more happens.

Zen... Idk. I really dislike how he tried to say Jerkus is manipulating me as a main point in his case, and in general I just don't like his approach to Jerkus. It really kinda shook my townlean towards him, and he's a null.

Macman is meh to me. The biggest point against him to me is the connection between him and Giraffes, plus a lot of his posts feel kinda hollow if that makes sense. Still, he is definitely looking a ton better than earlier in the game so Unvote

Giraffes is a scumlean for me if not outright scum. I heavily dislike almost all of his approaches, his blatant pandering to Zen is disgusting, and the huge amount of questions feels like an attempt at filler. I would love to see this flip, it would answer a lot for me.

I kinda dislike Scary, but he just hasn't been active enough. However, I dislike how he came to his recent conclusion about Giraffes, and his reads in general feel a bit too guarded which is weird considering how easily he threw around the weird triple vote (that was actually a double vote) block. Actually, now that I think about it that's a pretty damn big point against him. He can die, but I'm worried about not getting enough info from his flip minus maybe an enhanced read on Giraffes (with that recent flop to him).

I heavily dislike Xatres. He keeps pulling this crap where he calls null things scum tells, and that bit where he really started going into Jerkus (the "fishing for a reaction" bit that was so ****ty) gets me. Plus, why the hell did he feel the need to say how much he was enjoying armchairing? That's not a town attitude in the slightest, even if he dislikes large games. He can die.

So yeah. I'd lynch Scary, Giraffes, or Xatres, preferably Giraffes.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Joey's town

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf has a few town points in his favor, but as a couple other people have pointed out he has kinda *********** a few wagons and pushed to lynch inactives. We get nothing from an inactive lynch other than culling a useless player so naturally I dislike the idea as I said before. He's null as **** to me, and I will easily lean towards him being scum if more happens.

in my defense, having not-scum read on the active posters, combined with the huge amount of inactives, led me to pursuing inactives. like, i can feel you on the cockblocking wagons thing but c'mon. i don't wanna lynch my town reads.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

At some point we might need to body giraffe's just so people will shut up about him though. Yes his push on me was megagross and he's got a full metal boner.jpg for zen and his pushes make no sense, but that's still all stuff town ran does, he buddies to the more powerful players and makes reads that are just so bad no scum would do it.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I want everyone scum reading Giraffe's to tell me why he throws literally an OMGUS case and vote at me at the point in the game it appeared, for more than just the reason of "flailing scum". Why would a scum ran react so poorly ? What does he gain besides a spotlight on him ?

 

[Lore]

in my defense, having not-scum read on the active posters, combined with the huge amount of inactives, led me to pursuing inactives. like, i can feel you on the cockblocking wagons thing but c'mon. i don't wanna lynch my town reads.

True, which is why I'm only having you as a null. I'm not calling for a lynch or anything, lol. I want to see how you act as the game progresses.

 

[Lore]

Fml, I don't give a **** about Ran's meta. The dude is sketchy as hell this game to me, and that's that. His case against you isn't the only thing I dislike about him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Literally what WK said and what I've already poste from last night.

 

[Dooms]

I'm fine with a Scary vote as I've stated before, but I'd prefer to get more out of a few players before we call on the #HBC.

Specifically Xatres, Rajam, Frozenflame, Gheb, and Scary.

 

[Dooms]

@Xatres What other options would you like for a lynch aside from Jerkus?

@ ~ Gheb ~ FML doesn't seem to be happening today. Any other lynch options aside from FML?

@ #HBC | Scary I agree with Zen in the fact that the whole triple vote thing was really weird, especially how you handled it. I understand you probably followed Zen because it was RVS and you felt like you had a silly contract of sorts with him because he joined your vote block, but it still looks weird. Unlike Gorf, I understand where you're coming from with iLuv, and I agree completely that if you remove their meta, they are a scummy slot. Can you go into what specifically is scummy about what they're doing, though?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

no disrespect, but i mean **** guys if we remove meta we'd be lynching the ran's ruy's and rake's every game they ****in join now wouldn't we? i probably hate it the MOST cuz it's like letting a guy who's terrible at his job continue working cuz he tries, but let's be real: who wants to risk the ml's on slots you KNOW will play ****ty regardless of alignment? you gotta anticipate that the ****** in question will be ******** and work from there.

for example, iluv: ran and ruy. we got a try hard and a mixed bag. the question to keep in mind is how their play works in accordance to the game they're playing. ran's pushes (strictly using the jerkus push as an example here but this can kinda be applied to his play in general thus far) are stupid and the reasoning is so reachy it makes me wanna pull my teeth out. but remember. dumb =/= scum. from a townpov, i see a player who feels like they found a gem and is riding HARD on it. i see a player who reeeeeeally wants the ability to say "i found that scum" and can't decipher the difference between what good evidence is vs bad evidence. he thinks EVERYTHING he sees is legit and wants to give his pov to the rest of town, and at the same time is going out of his way to interact with the slot he's SURE is scum so that he can catch em in a slip and the rest of town can see it too. this is what we in the industry call "genuine scum hunting," even though it's not good, which is something to talk about post game. also, he's associating with and sifting through pretty much all of the players in the game. he's not afraid of putting himself out there and is determined to be heard. does scum often do that?

call me a white knight, that just happens to be how i read a slot who needs to have a smidgen of leeway in order to not default to scum reading em every game. imma go preachy here but it's a lot harder to change somebody than it is to change yourself. ran's play can be discussed post game. but FOR NOW, i don't want to risk mling him because his approach to the game is atypical and, in my opinion, bad.

 

[Jerkus]

Gorf, I agree that meta can be used and it should be because it is information presented. The thing I am saying is that it should not be the MAIN point of a person's argument because meta is weak and not something that is truly a good thing to follow. Meta is circumstancial evidence to the case unlike actual actions that happened in the game. Quite nearly everyone has stated that removing meta (even Zen at one point) that I<3Giraffe is by far one of the scummiest slots in the game. The reason they are not being lynched at this point and time is because of solely meta and the fact that's it's Ranmaru being Ranmaru. Do people not realize that Ranmaru could just be being Ranmaru and still be scum? His asinine questioning is truly something that is not hard to fake and the way he hardly every plays scum over town so how hard could it be for him to forge it?
I'm also kind of sick and tired of the "Ran's just being Ran" or "Ryu's just being Ryu" or etc. etc. etc. etc. because quite frankly it's lazy reasoning and bad reasoning.
However, I will say to you, Gorf, yes I feel you are town and I do see the point in your logic but can you stop whiteknighting nearly everyone? Hell, I don't even whiteknight that much and when I whiteknight I at least have a target in mind to save so that another may be condemned. Whiteknighting just for the sake of whiteknighting is unfruitful for the rest of town because the rest of us may need for I<3Giraffe to actually defend their own actions instead of hiding behind you and Zen all damn game. Plus it's D1, let the paper trail and least harden a bit before full on defending slots over trivial matters we do not even know may hold things for the later dayphases of D2/3/4/5/whatever.
This D1 is becoming exhausting and just needs to end so that everyone may get a break and try to reassess the game. Plus the replacements will need time to get into the game and maybe we might even get more replacements due to Kuzi more than likely replacing out.

 

[Jerkus]

Dear god, computer, I had pressed enter and made that post so much better than it actually is. For formatting reasons and to make it easier on the eyes: here is how the post should look in this collapse tag. It's mainly for @ #HBC | Gorf but I did mention things everyone should read.

Spoiler

Gorf, I agree that meta can be used and it should be because it is information presented. The thing I am saying is that it should not be the MAIN point of a person's argument because meta is weak and not something that is truly a good thing to follow. Meta is circumstancial evidence to the case unlike actual actions that happened in the game. Quite nearly everyone has stated that removing meta (even Zen at one point) that I<3Giraffe is by far one of the scummiest slots in the game. The reason they are not being lynched at this point and time is because of solely meta and the fact that's it's Ranmaru being Ranmaru. Do people not realize that Ranmaru could just be being Ranmaru and still be scum? His asinine questioning is truly something that is not hard to fake and the way he hardly every plays scum over town so how hard could it be for him to forge it?

I'm also kind of sick and tired of the "Ran's just being Ran" or "Ryu's just being Ryu" or etc. etc. etc. etc. because quite frankly it's lazy reasoning and bad reasoning.

However, I will say to you, Gorf, yes I feel you are town and I do see the point in your logic but can you stop whiteknighting nearly everyone? Hell, I don't even whiteknight that much and when I whiteknight I at least have a target in mind to save so that another may be condemned. Whiteknighting just for the sake of whiteknighting is unfruitful for the rest of town because the rest of us may need for I<3Giraffe to actually defend their own actions instead of hiding behind you and Zen all damn game. Plus it's D1, let the paper trail and least harden a bit before full on defending slots over trivial matters we do not even know may hold things for the later dayphases of D2/3/4/5/whatever.

This D1 is becoming exhausting and just needs to end so that everyone may get a break and try to reassess the game. Plus the replacements will need time to get into the game and maybe we might even get more replacements due to Kuzi more than likely replacing out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm also kind of sick and tired of the "Ran's just being Ran" or "Ryu's just being Ryu" or etc. etc. etc. etc. because quite frankly it's lazy reasoning and bad reasoning.

To be fair I don't like it when people meta me either, since I can mimic it pretty decently when I can get into the game. But be real here.

People will do stupid or scummy things as town, even if you knew nothing about those players you need to figure out if this is the case or not because this is a rule Xiivi even told me when I was trying to get into mafia.

Are they playing for their wincon for town or scum.

Yes Ran and me do scetchy and scummy things as town, but again you need to read intent. "What are they trying to do here?" The more I see you whine about this the less I get the feeling you are trying to read our slot or others.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

not one point of what i said involved "ran being ran," or "ruy being ruy." iluv's showing signs of being a stupid townie, and he's showing it hard.

i see a player who feels like they found a gem and is riding HARD on it. i see a player who reeeeeeally wants the ability to say "i found that scum" and can't decipher the difference between what good evidence is vs bad evidence. he thinks EVERYTHING he sees is legit and wants to give his pov to the rest of town, and at the same time is going out of his way to interact with the slot he's SURE is scum so that he can catch em in a slip and the rest of town can see it too. this is what we in the industry call "genuine scum hunting," even though it's not good, which is something to talk about post game. also, he's associating with and sifting through pretty much all of the players in the game. he's not afraid of putting himself out there and is determined to be heard. does scum often do that?

if it helps, read that. that's how i read iluv.

in lieu of meta, all ive seen of the iluv scumreaders is "his actions are scummy." you know who has some grimy looking actions on a regular basis? marshy. nabe. hell, maybe even me. why doesn't town put us on the lynch mob on a regular basis? cuz we try n look at our actions and see how they coincide with the thread. sometimes we screw up, sometimes we don't. nabe was really really ****ing ridiculous in flavorless. he deserved to be lynched cuz of his literal refusal to play the game, and in fact ended up being lynched to not have him in lylo. he was my strongest town read cuz that wasn't the only thing i was looking at; the slot he replaced into had clear disconnection to the scum team. sure i wasn't looking at HIS intent, but the point still stands: scummy. actions. aren't. everything.

that's all i gotta say man. call it white knighting if you want, i prefer to think of it as deterring ***********. oh and why don't i get into this with iluv for THEIR scum reads n such? cuz quite frankly i have better things to do than to try arguing with the brick wall hydra.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

oh and i do have another target in mind that i'd rather town focus on, is it like my vote doesn't exist or something... what was even the point of that comment?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm officially back from V/LA but I haven't read ****. Gimme some time and I'll have some thoughts ready toDay.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Back from running errands today. Lemme get to what I have to.

@ Dooms
That's pretty much it man. Sorry if it did seem weird but I've never had to make decisions like that with the power of up to three votes. It was way out there for me and normal decision making lol.

As far as iLuv is concerned, look at the overall play.

Let's start off with some of his initial pushes. The FML push started with a joke of a vote that was placed on me. In 260 the reasoning to flip the vote onto him was a glorified OMGUS masked behind the idea that FML was fluffing the thread, putting a weird vote on me, and attempting to make him look bad according to iLuv. None of those reasons really held any water. The vote on me was exactly as I said, a complete joke that has run on into every game I can remember playing with Rake. As far as fluffing the thread up to that point, nothing FML had posted really was fluffy. He was generally being helpful, answering questions, and only had maybe 2 or 3 posts you could consider fluffy, so that part of the push holds no water. Even in 277, Zen comes in and dismisses the FML push, and that has been iLuv's primary person to go to as far as asking to push along the wagon.

With the Werekill push, the proclamation of WK faking content was a reach at best. Shortly after iLuv's vote to WK in 160, FML shoots that down in 165 and further shoots it down in 168, mentioning that WK's openness and self-read conflict should be enough to pass him as town. Other slots also fire at this push (Gorf 183, Gheb 190).

I don't really see the need to go into the Jerkus push because I'm in the belief that that wagon is beyond "dead horse" beatdown. Though its coming from the person that's being pushed, Jerkus' 836 is a good summary of things as well as an attempt to bring up a connection between iluv and Zen that has been prominent in everything that iluv has done up to this point. Tack on the recent white-knighting from Gorf and all the references to Ran meta and this slot has been given every single benefit of the doubt imaginable. It's only day 1.

Also, this has been said multiple times as well. iluv's willingness to just jump from wagon to wagon along with essentially abandoning previous pushes on a whim just seems very off.

There's still time in the day to do this since we may have one more replacement coming in.
Vote: ilovegiraffes

 

[#HBC | Scary]

oh and i do have another target in mind that i'd rather town focus on, is it like my vote doesn't exist or something... what was even the point of that comment?

What avenue are you looking to go down? Don't have too much time in the day so it might be good to release this.

 

[Lore]

Even though I'm against Giraffes, I'm not a fan of that post. It feels like a quick attempt to shove the lynch off onto someone else ("there's still time in the day to do this"), which I suppose is reasonable but it REALLY makes me want to see your flip.

Vote: Scary

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Is that really the only part of the post that you dislike?

 

[Lore]

Also can we talk about this?

@ #HBC | Scary why did you ask me whether or not we should still vote Jerkus after making his case? Why is your vote still on Jerkus? Who do you think is scum? Do you have a town read on Joey?

@ Jerkus why are you not voting Scary? I get the feeling that you prefer your lynch over his.




There's a lot of V/LA's going on this week. For the sake of making sure we do not end up with a Zen/Soup hydra;

@ FullMetalLynch @#HBC | FrozeηFlame @ ~ Gheb ~ @ #HBC | Nabe please move your vote to either Jerkus or Scary.

@ Dooms @ Jerkus @ Lore please move your vote to Scary.

Does anyone besides me dislike how he talks about me being manipulated then attempts to manipulate everyone by trying to make it seem like there are only two choices for a lynch?

 

[Lore]

Is that really the only part of the post that you dislike?

It all feels like a "greatest hits" of previous arguments cobbled together in a quick attempt to pass the lynch elsewhere. In fact, a good number of your posts flat out say "these guys said this, go look at them!"

I just don't like it.

 

[Dooms]

How do you feel about Gheb, Scary?

 

[Dooms]

Even though I'm against Giraffes, I'm not a fan of that post. It feels like a quick attempt to shove the lynch off onto someone else ("there's still time in the day to do this"), which I suppose is reasonable but it REALLY makes me want to see your flip.

Vote: Scary

I don't like this. I'm not sure what you expect from Scary at this point. He's becoming a go-to lynch because so many people are simply okay with lynching him, so of course he's going to push the lynch elsewhere. Like, think what you (or anyone else) would do in this scenario. You'd either defend yourself (he did) and push someone that is scummy or you claim. He thinks iLuv is scum, so he's voting him and telling others to so we don't waste a lynch if he's town or he's trying to save his own butt as scum. I don't understand how you get anything but null from this.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'm waiting to see why he posts tonight if he does.

He has essentially coasted through the day while keyed in on FMLynch. It's hard to really say anything about him since there is really minimal stuff outside of a case on FML. He falls into the "I certainly hope he says something before the day is over" category.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'm waiting to see What not why*

Evil phone lol.

 

[Dooms]

Do you feel the same way about his FML push as iLuv's?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@#HBC | Zen
So then why bring up the idea of a triple vote thing at all? When you joined in and stared using context that insinuated that there would be cohesion such as "our vote" or that you would only move your vote if I did, it only became natural for me to ask you about what you thought. This entire voting block caught me off guard because I've never had to deal with such a thing. The other time in FFtA I merely avoided it.

As far as my vote on Jerkus, I have actually softened in my stance on them. Before, I left my vote on them because of them avoiding/ignoring the early questions they had to face especially in regard to the late attempt at a BarDull wagon, and the shoddy Mac push. Those were generally gross but after the read up and getting caught up for the most part, I'm seeing Jerkus in a more town light. That started with the interactions with Xatres. For some reason or another, I'm taking the frustration from Jerkus as a town feel. The frustration stemming from the, during the Xatres AtE case has given me a genuine feeling of town from Jerkus thanks to the emotions exhibited from Jerkus. It doesn't seem like much and I would like to see them be a little more open about things asked of them, but tying that together with their 836 & 839 has made me feel better about them (aside from the vote on me but I understand it since I've kinda been in their top 3 since forever ago and we are starting to run low on time to hit new avenues) In 836 especially I agree with their thoughts on iLuv and I'm willing to get that party started. Think you can come to a compromise and explore this route some more? There is still time before the deadline but I feel like its going to be difficult since a good chunk of peeps have V/LA'ed.

Unvote

Your tidbit about using meta on others and having meta used against or ignored makes me feel better about your slot as well Jerkus since its further hitting on what I mentioned about your genuine frustration and it makes me want to explore the idea of pursuing iluv. Setting aside what is known about Ran's town meta. Its been something that has been hit all game, the idea of "how can they get away with the reasoning that they are using" and the quality of their pushes which has been lacking. The attempt at FML was bleh. Again, stripping that slot of their meta and what you get is a slot that has scummed it up in my eyes.

To answer the other stuff, I think scum lies in the inactive pile and iLuv for the moment. I'm also alright with Joey for now. He's been really level-headed in his play and his logic with some of his reasoning has been really sound. Nothing jumps out at me immediately but I'll delve deeper just to be sure.

Back from running errands today. Lemme get to what I have to.

@ Dooms
That's pretty much it man. Sorry if it did seem weird but I've never had to make decisions like that with the power of up to three votes. It was way out there for me and normal decision making lol.

As far as iLuv is concerned, look at the overall play.

Let's start off with some of his initial pushes. The FML push started with a joke of a vote that was placed on me. In 260 the reasoning to flip the vote onto him was a glorified OMGUS masked behind the idea that FML was fluffing the thread, putting a weird vote on me, and attempting to make him look bad according to iLuv. None of those reasons really held any water. The vote on me was exactly as I said, a complete joke that has run on into every game I can remember playing with Rake. As far as fluffing the thread up to that point, nothing FML had posted really was fluffy. He was generally being helpful, answering questions, and only had maybe 2 or 3 posts you could consider fluffy, so that part of the push holds no water. Even in 277, Zen comes in and dismisses the FML push, and that has been iLuv's primary person to go to as far as asking to push along the wagon.

With the Werekill push, the proclamation of WK faking content was a reach at best. Shortly after iLuv's vote to WK in 160, FML shoots that down in 165 and further shoots it down in 168, mentioning that WK's openness and self-read conflict should be enough to pass him as town. Other slots also fire at this push (Gorf 183, Gheb 190).

I don't really see the need to go into the Jerkus push because I'm in the belief that that wagon is beyond "dead horse" beatdown. Though its coming from the person that's being pushed, Jerkus' 836 is a good summary of things as well as an attempt to bring up a connection between iluv and Zen that has been prominent in everything that iluv has done up to this point. Tack on the recent white-knighting from Gorf and all the references to Ran meta and this slot has been given every single benefit of the doubt imaginable. It's only day 1.

Also, this has been said multiple times as well. iluv's willingness to just jump from wagon to wagon along with essentially abandoning previous pushes on a whim just seems very off.

There's still time in the day to do this since we may have one more replacement coming in.
Vote: ilovegiraffes

Awkward transition from the previous vote to unvote to ILG, and the reasoning seems forced especially given the phrase, "There's still time in the day for this" when Scary is on several players' shortlists for an end-of-Day lynch.

 

[Lore]

Awkward transition from the previous vote to unvote to ILG, and the reasoning seems forced especially given the phrase, "There's still time in the day for this" when Scary is on several players' shortlists for an end-of-Day lynch.

Pretty much this, Joey. He just said it better I guess.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Do you feel the same way about his FML push as iLuv's?

Not really. Gheb's push had some substance to it. There was at least an attempt to highlight issues that Gheb had with FML's play whereas iluv's wreaked with OMGUS and shoddy reasoning. Not really too much of a comparison.