Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[ranmaru]

@ Jerkus : Can you get to my #711 , #712 , and #713? Thanks.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

@ Jerkus : Can you get to my #711 , #712 , and #713? Thanks.

****. I blame premie ending. ;-;

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

I'm going to sleep. Responses in the morning. Good night.

 

[Jerkus]

When did your reads change on Zen and I, and what was the imputus for changing it?

I feel that Zen started off townie, a large part of which came from his interest in being a strong presence in the thread. His presence has since dissipated significantly, and his suspicion of our slot seems to come more from a lack of drive to think critically than from actually solidifying a scum read. Basically, it really just feels like he's sticking to his suspicion of this slot because it's easier than doing anything else. He's not necessarily scum for this, but townZen is less of a sure thing than I would have said at the beginning of a the Day.

My read on you pretty much happened when J and I agreed that you were playing really bad, but couldn't agree that you were scum. I find your play, and specifically your tunnelvision, to be suspect, but I can't say that it's not something I've seen townRan do when giving into his lesser instincts.

What did 'playing with your food' mean, and why did you state this?

Zen was asking Werekill noob gotcha questions like "are you a VT or a PR?" I was pretty much just telling Zen to shut the **** up, in a playful way.

@ Jerkus

Can you respond to #585? I still am curious about why you asked the closed questioning, and I want to see if Macman's assertion is correct or if you have an explanation for it all. Thank you.

I just went and found general, recent examples of Mac being wishy-washy. That they came after J's initial assertion is personally irrelevant from my point of view, because they are still good examples of how Mac has been playing this game. The hesitance. The backdoors. I understand the idea that in some games, especially larger ones, that a lot of players just remain difficult to get a bead on. Especially on D1. But he basically didn't give any stance on anyone for most of D1 (other than being hard onto Werekill, then immediately hard off of him), then even when he finally started talking about some players, it was all just non-commital nothing.

As of this post, his one and only strong(ish) stance, is still just that we are scum. Which is wrong. That he's wrong isn't really relevant to his constitution, but it's still true.

 

[Jerkus]

Also, Ran, asking me something as trivial as "why did you tell Zen not to play with his food?" is an example of something that makes me raise my eyebrow at you. It's an obviously bad question that is incapable of progressing discussion. In a vacuum, it reeks of faking content. In context, it could be you regressing to a version of Ran who didn't know what he was doing.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Scary

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

vote scary

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

1. Nabe
2. Gorf
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (5) - th3kuzinator, ilovegiraffes, Macman, ScaryLB59, Xatres
4. FrozenFlame (1) - BarDulL
5. Macman (1) - Werekill
6. BarDulL
7. Ilovegiraffes (Red Ryu/Ranmaru)
8. th3kuzinator
9. ScaryLB59 (2) - Zen, Gorf
10. Gheb_01
11. Xatres (1) - Jerkus
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (3) - Gheb_01, Nabe, Frozenflame
13. Joey
14. Werekill
15. Zen (1) - Joey

Not voting: FullMetalLynch

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

th3kuzinator and ScaryLB59 have been prodded.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

Spoiler: Jerkus Context, 5 quotes, not so bad

It's not a specific thing, I think? He's just qualifying everything he says. "Gorf said something I agree with about Scary, but I don't know his meta so I don't know." "Xatres is a good wagon, but I don't know, could be dumb or scum." "Gheb and his push on FML worries me but I don't have a lot to work with on him so eh, whatever."

Like I said, we're his biggest scumread, and even we were, not long ago, just described as "problematic." Mac seems pretty hesitant to plant his flag anywhere too strongly.

Red, he mentions Mac is qualifying everything, yet Mac responds stating that it only happened after he asked. So this is inconsistent, and both heads could not (assuming this is J) explain their actions.

yea... i've been pretty clear about my learntown reads and how i felt about certain scenarios and that I think you're the scummies thus far.

i think the better question is what made my actions appear waffly to you in the first place? though I can't expect that I'll get an actual answer since your slot has a tendency this game to make random claims and not explain the reasoning behind them

Mac responds saying that it isn't true, and I haven't seen any waffly statements myself. I did not make a post by post analysis, as I have scrolled up pages and have not seen a waffly stance, so if there is one before, please do quote it so I can consider it. But in this case I believe there isn't any.

I just went and found general, recent examples of Mac being wishy-washy. That they came after J's initial assertion is personally irrelevant from my point of view, because they are still good examples of how Mac has been playing this game. The hesitance. The backdoors. I understand the idea that in some games, especially larger ones, that a lot of players just remain difficult to get a bead on. Especially on D1. But he basically didn't give any stance on anyone for most of D1 (other than being hard onto Werekill, then immediately hard off of him), then even when he finally started talking about some players, it was all just non-commital nothing.

It coming after J's assertion isn't invalidated by it being irrelevant in his pov. This seems like him simply disagreeing to defend himself as scum, when it is illogical to think that. "It's just my personal opinion that the reason for asking that question coming after my assertion is irrevevant, I still had reason to ask it" (That's how I see it)

Even without meta, I still make the argument that Mac's content is in dire lack of substance so far, which would be fishy for anyone who has actively been in the game for this long. The meta just strengthens that view.

As I double checked for waffly stances, this is a comment from Jerkus, which doesn't mention any waffly stances, but no stances at all. If no stances were the case, asking them "who else is scum/what other reads do you have" would be a more appropriate question rather than trying to re-direct macman to Scary/Giraffes with a hypothetical.

Other head here, so I may be putting words in J's mouth. But I think when he said waffly, he really just meant wishy-washy, which I don't think is unfair. Your biggest scumread is us, and the reasoning seems to just be that this head went out you pretty hard and hasn't answered every arbitrary request asked of it. Pretty weak.

I don't understand why the other head would try to explain J's actions for him. I can understand a head going "wtf other head why u say that" in reaction to pressure on a dumb mistake, and then having to wait for the other head to explain. I think a good example is FML in Toonami? I think that's the game. The one where he got lynched. This doesn't pass as an explanation, as you can't know what your other head was thinking.

This is the J side both in the quote and posting so this'll be easy because it really is just my playstyle. I like forcing people to take a stance on reads and Mac is being waffly on stances so I want him to put his foot down and decide what he makes. This also forces Mac to have a papertrail which I can form connections and thoughts on. I do this quite practically every game. I choose to ask the hypothetical because I get more out of it then persuading him. I get him to make a decision.

Blue: This is what I was seeing that was off. I double checked Mac's posts to be sure, and I had not seen much waffly stances since he voted Jerkus. This to me implies that J jumped quick to this explanation because this was something he has done as town before, so he knew how to form that up to his town image, and was eager to explain it to me in that way, as shown in the orange. The slot's explanations do not explain any waffly stances from before (explained in the spoiler), so this shows that they J was focusing more on his image rather than actually explaining something with what he really believes. Also, I knew to ask about the closed question thanks to Glyph, seeing him in action in FFtA <3 Glyph.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

Spoiler: Joey Context, only 3 quotes guys no worries! :p

I'm against the Jerkus lynch right now. Mostly because Zen's and Iluv's reasoning for being on him is pretty crappy, and I REALLY don't care for Macman being salty about Jerkus not going in depth about their interaction hunch.
Right now:

Vote: Zen

Yeah you're reaching really hard on Jerkus for a lot of things that can be applied to multiple players, and I don't like it one bit.

Xatres can go as well, I agree with Jerkus on Scary, and that's pretty much it for my scum reads at the moment. Finishing my read through. It's obvious I stopped on Zen's post.

You don't care to look into Mac while he was arguing the same I as.
You also have a weak reason on Zen, and your other reads are not as fleshed out. Not enough.
Your push on Zen isn't really a push on him being scum, just a disagreement while also implying you think he is scum. (As made apparent by your replies) Otherwise you would factor in the other variables of his play, which I have outlined, and which you have yet to respond to.

def not gonna take the vote off until you explain your reasoning... also I think the fact that you're so unwilling to respond to legitimate qs is scummy

As you can see, Macman states it here, but you ignoring his reasoning simply because you personally don't care for it, is suspicious because it shows you aren't thinking from a town mindset, especially since when I bring it up, you mention it is reaching yet you don't mention that to macman.

That is an answer. It's just one I don't agree with in the slightest because I don't see scum Jerkus. There's not a must be. There are a few possibilities. The one I think is most likely is that he planned to go into it but changed his mind before he did, so it's not relevant anymore. I could easily see both J and Circus thinking that and not going into details because they don't care to and prefer to focus on more serious and on going things (this scenario seems even more likely if they agreed with the reasoning other people had on Bardull). He also could have forgotten to post about Mac + iLuv or simply doesn't have the post finished yet. I don't really know, but assuming that they're scummy because of those two things seems reachy to me.

Blue and purple responded to Bardull specific stuff with Macman + iLuv specific stuff. :/. I am 100% of the belief that they simply forgot or that the post isn't ready, which isn't scummy (or townie. It's null). I'm waiting for the post before I judge. Like, if they say they're going to post about it, I'm 95% sure they're going to post about it at some point before the day would end. Even if they didn't, that would be a very basic and idiotic mistake for scum to make. I don't find that to be scummy. It's just... weird. Null and weird.

You can get a scum read from an odd connection. If you think that player X has a scum connection to a player you're scum reading, then suddenly player X is scummy as well in your eyes because they're connected to the scum player.

When saying 'must be', I meant 'most likely'. Good point.

This whole quote is suspicious, because you are giving Jerkus too much of your blind faith. You say you are waiting for the post, and then say that in the case that they don't bring it, it doesn't mean anything because they aren't dumb enough to not explain their actions. The farthest you go is calling it null and weird. It's weird because it is suspicious, that they cannot out that information. They have yet to answer your questions in the last page, and have only been replying to recent events. They only answered my questions after tagging them and reminding them to answer them. (Also consider that I waited until they left to see if they were catching up, but instead they left the thread, and then I had to ask them to answer)

Purple: Finally, that's exactly what I said. You need to have a scumread first, and you seem to understand that. It doesn't come from a connection first.

@ Dooms I think you are scum because you don't care to look at Mac's reasoning for his Jerkus push, yet it is the same as mine. When I bring it up, it is reaching, but you don't care to look at Mac's reasoning because you aren't really looking for scum, you are simply opposing my read on Jerkus to oppose me. (Rather, arguing to argue) You also push on Zen's reasoning but that isn't really showing why he is scum for it, just that you disagree on his reasoning but yet you choose to push on him. This is apparent by you noticing the questionable actions Jerkus committs, but yet you try to go around it by asking "That's odd, I wonder why they haven't gotten to it yet' or 'I'm sure they'll respond later'. You give them too much trust and too much benefit of the doubt, by saying that you %100 believe they will get to it no matter what. Then you qualify this by saying that if they don't, that it wouldn't be suspicious because scum wouldn't be that dumb. So then you are excusing them for not doing so because they are 'well above' bad scum. You won't find scum by giving someone your blind faith, and I don't find it to come from a town mindset. Your reasoning to suspect him Zen weak, and when I talk to you about my read on him in my #744. My #744 suggests that Zen is not only scumhunting, but also trying to lock down his townreads of which he might doubt. You never actually gave an argument to counter my read on Zen. You never look at Zen's whole play,

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

I am feeling better about Macman. I like that he has sticked to his guns wrt Jerkus, and he hasn't been doing anything malicious, he seems to have a townie mindset wrt to reading me and others.

I'm sticking to Jerkus ToDay. I am also fine with compromising to Joey, if i have to.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

Mod: V/LA until the 23rd

I'll be heading out now. I should be able to view from my phone at times, and I'll have Ryu text me if anything really needs our vote/attention, but I'll be busy playing dem vidyagames.

 

[Dooms]

Unvote

I was gonna wait for a response from Zen before I did this, but the fact that he's voting Scary makes me believe he doesn't want to respond to me, which is perfectly fine honestly lol. I agree with Ranmaru on Zen town. I don't agree with Zen's reasoning at all, but I can see where he's coming from very well now.

---------------------------------

Can I ignore Ranmaru this game?

You don't care to look into Mac while he was arguing the same I as.
You also have a weak reason on Zen, and your other reads are not as fleshed out. Not enough.
Your push on Zen isn't really a push on him being scum, just a disagreement while also implying you think he is scum. (As made apparent by your replies) Otherwise you would factor in the other variables of his play, which I have outlined, and which you have yet to respond to.

I haven't seen much from Macman on Jerkus aside from them not answering questions and more so not discussing their iLuv + Macman case they had. It's not scummy for Macman to think like this because he honestly should be looking for answers from one of the slots that has him as a strong scum read but isn't going in depth about one of their connections regarding him, but I don't care for that reasoning in the slightest. I have not had a reason to state this clearly whatsoever, so I haven't. It's not anything game-changing. It's just a read that I had no reason to flesh into because it's very underdeveloped and it's a pretty solid null.

The fact that he's accusing Jerkus and that his case is so reachy with a bunch of things that can be applied to other players in the game and that he's focusing so much on that is why I was scum reading him. I feel better about him after his response, but that doesn't change the fact that his case was really reachy, and quite a bit of the stuff Jerkus was being accused of was stuff that could apply to other members of the cast or was just totally out there (scummy for manipulating Werekill comes to mind). I'm not sure how you didn't get this from my response.

I said I'd respond to the Zen post when Jerkus talked about

As you can see, Macman states it here, but you ignoring his reasoning simply because you personally don't care for it, is suspicious because it shows you aren't thinking from a town mindset, especially since when I bring it up, you mention it is reaching yet you don't mention that to macman.

I'm not ignoring it lmao. It's definitely there. I just don't care for it. You're acting like this is new reasoning that I haven't responded to or if it's anything that I need to respond to specifically when multiple other people are saying the exact same thing. Macman mainly wants the case thing answered, so I'm going to wait for that to be answered before I questoin anything Macman is doing with Jerkus because Macman has been asking about it the entire game.

This whole quote is suspicious, because you are giving Jerkus too much of your blind faith. You say you are waiting for the post, and then say that in the case that they don't bring it, it doesn't mean anything because they aren't dumb enough to not explain their actions. The farthest you go is calling it null and weird. It's weird because it is suspicious, that they cannot out that information. They have yet to answer your questions in the last page, and have only been replying to recent events. They only answered my questions after tagging them and reminding them to answer them. (Also consider that I waited until they left to see if they were catching up, but instead they left the thread, and then I had to ask them to answer)

If they don't bring it, I won't jump down their throats in the slightest. It's not something that will make me scum read them, especially considering how well I know J and Circus and how defensive they are and it'd be a really idiotic mistake as scum that I wouldn't expect either of them to make. It definitely wouldn't make me town read them, and I'd want the info, but that won't make me scum read them at all, which makes it null. It's weird, but null.

They're defensive players. Of course they're going to respond to the attacking posts. I don't care if they left the thread lmao. J was playing league all night last night and Circus has a life. They'll get to it when they get to it. There's a reason why I'm not harping on anyone for ignoring my questions. Especially if they're being harped on for stupid **** like manipulating a mutual buddy partnership.

Purple

: Finally, that's exactly what I said. You need to have a scumread first, and you seem to understand that. It doesn't come from a connection first.

He had a scum read on Macman, and he connected Macman to you, therefore he now has reason to be suspicious of you. Pretty straight forward.

@ Dooms I think you are scum because you don't care to look at Mac's reasoning for his Jerkus push, yet it is the same as mine. When I bring it up, it is reaching, but you don't care to look at Mac's reasoning because you aren't really looking for scum, you are simply opposing my read on Jerkus to oppose me.(Rather, arguing to argue) You also push on Zen's reasoning but that isn't really showing why he is scum for it, just that you disagree on his reasoning but yet you choose to push on him. This is apparent by you noticing the questionable actions Jerkus committs, but yet you try to go around it by asking "That's odd, I wonder why they haven't gotten to it yet' or 'I'm sure they'll respond later'. You give them too much trust and too much benefit of the doubt, by saying that you %100 believe they will get to it no matter what. Then you qualify this by saying that if they don't, that it wouldn't be suspicious because scum wouldn't be that dumb. So then you are excusing them for not doing so because they are 'well above' bad scum. You won't find scum by giving someone your blind faith, and I don't find it to come from a town mindset. Your reasoning to suspect him Zen weak, and when I talk to you about my read on him in my #744. My #744 suggests that Zen is not only scumhunting, but also trying to lock down his townreads of which he might doubt. You never actually gave an argument to counter my read on Zen. You never look at Zen's whole play,

I'll start off by saying that your reasoning isn't reaching, and as far as I recall, I never said your reasoning was reaching at all. I said Zen was reaching, but you're not Zen, and he had different reasons as well as yours for scum reading Jerkus, most of which I found reaching. I agree that you and Macman are scum reading Jerkus for similar reasons. :v

I have blind faith for Jerkus because the reasoning for voting him is ****ty and with how many people are willing to jump on him for awful reasoning and with my personal read on them, I don't have a reason to be on a wagon with that and I don't have a reason to scum read them. We have you that spent 8-10 pages asking half the cast to join the Jerkus wagon or asked for their thoughts on Jerkus specifically, Zen talking about manipulation being scummy and that it was used on Werekill for idiotic reasons, Xatres for mind numbingly idiotic reasons. I'll be the first to admit that I can see people not liking him for not answering Macman + iLuv questoins, but that's pretty much all I can see, and that's not enough to join a wagon. The fact that Jerkus is being forced into a position to defend themselves in order to live and that they're not answering the questions that are making people jump down their throats is the only thing that confuses me about the slot. I'm not blindly trusting Jerkus as much as I'm just not buying into the crap reasoning and that I believe they'll respond to things because those questions are the only things that people can hold against them as reasoning, and at they'd be idiots not to. I can't develop a read on them because of the position they're being forced into through a really crappy wagon. Like, I have a slight town lean on them because I can see where they're coming from, but the fact that they're for some reason against sharing this thought process and ignoring it altogether is weird, and I don't see why'd they do it as town or scum. If it's a mistake they've made, then I don't see it as town or scum because it's obvious a connection was there since he went into each slot individually and made a very clear line up to a connection post, which shows the intent to put his thoughts out there... he just didn't :/. It's weird.

Zen's play prior to that case is null to me. He's another player jumping on Jerkus for reasons that I don't agree with, and outside of that he was active in RVS. His case was really reachy, and I'll admit that I over-reacted to meta, but the other people I had in mind were Xatres (who was getting near hardbodied at the time for good reasons) and Scary (who is more a null that I'd be perfectly fine with lynching because he's not beneficial to town in the slightest and I could easily see him as scum). He was definitely the best choice out of the three. Plus vote = pressure so he'd actually respond to me.

On initial read of Zen's 40whatever, it was weird and I didn't like it. It was basically a pre-case he made for his actual case, and they were pretty similar throughout most of it, so I wasn't sure what you were expecting with a response. I asked questions because he talked about Bardull, and I wanted as much info as I could get before responding. You know this much, as I stated it already. I see what you were talking about after his response to me though, considering he genuinely believes what he's talking about.

I actually agree with Zen town now. His response to me cleared it up a lot. I agree that he's digging into the game and he genuinely feels what he's posting. I still don't agree with his reasoning on Jerkus scum (or anyone's, really), but I can see that he's scum hunting and that he genuinely believes what he's doing.

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: Ignore "I said I'd respond to the Zen post when Jerkus talked about". I talked about it at the bottom of the post instead.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Sorry for my absence. I'm going to start a reread and catch up.

Work has just been brutal lol, glad it's the weekend.

 

[Ilovegiraffes]

I'm here I've been busy so Ran's held the fort down, I'll get to this after work tonight.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm v/la for the wknd I think (though i might find some internet)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe who would you rather lynch out of Jerkus and Scary?

Jerkus.

emphasis mine

Seriously, when are dGames towns going to start to truly understand that being aggressive is not indicative of scum alignment? Talking outside of just this game for a second, I genuinely feel that this is one of the most commonly (and falsely) assumed fallacies on these boards. That being "aggressive" or "antagonizing" suggests that you're mafia. IF ANYTHING, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

IF ANYTHING

THE OPPOSITE

IS TRUE.

what
If anything, dGames towns think that being aggressive is indicative of town. See: Gorf. See: marshy. See: Laundry.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'm particularly confused with Zen's eventual vote on me. It's brewing for quite some time but I still never really got an answer as to why he made that triple vote block with me and BarDull while he was still around. It strikes me as a bit of contradiction that he finally decides to move his vote to me even though he has been entirely consistent with his stance of not moving his vote unless I move mine. I'm also particularly bugged about the case about the consistency in my play while I was still around where I wasn't moving my vote around just for the sake of not moving it. In essence, wouldn't him not moving his vote either, be guilty of the same thing?

I'm concluding that you have been trying to pin me as a fall guy ever since you created the little vote block with me that I never learned the intent of.

@ Ilovegiraffes
After you said you were fine with a jerkus wagon, what made you alright with a compromise if necessary of Joey?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Jerkus
Has there been anything else to cause of Zen town read to sour?

@ #HBC | Gorf
Is the vote on me a playful thing in the spirit of how Zen latched on to my RVS vote and created that block or is it a serious thing?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Jerkus.



what
If anything, dGames towns think that being aggressive is indicative of town. See: Gorf. See: marshy. See: Laundry.

yea but that's like a lolmeta thing when, on a general playing field, people generally get bad vibes from aggro play... which is ********.

btw nabe who are you looking at for a lynch before reaching into inactive territory?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@ #HBC | Gorf
Is the vote on me a playful thing in the spirit of how Zen latched on to my RVS vote and created that block or is it a serious thing?

yea it's a serious thing, it'd be a lot more impactful if people, like, hopped off the ***** of their crappy wagons but ayy. where do YOU plan on looking toDay (answer this after you've read up)?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I want an answer from Zen since I feel like a fall guy from his role in the triple and vote and then his case forms out of it.

I'm also perplexed with why Joey is even really thought of as an option to compromise to. How did that even really come about?

I wanna look into Gheb some since he's gotten by with his FML case that I didn't agree too much with. Really would like to see some more outta him.

Also, @ #HBC | Gorf , I saw in a recent post that you have mixed feels about Joey. What is causing that uneasiness? Is it meta related or is it something that has shown up in this game?

 

[Nameless]

Vote Count

1. Nabe
2. Gorf
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (5) - th3kuzinator, ilovegiraffes, Macman, ScaryLB59, Xatres
4. FrozenFlame (1) - BarDulL
5. Macman (1) - Werekill
6. BarDulL
7. Ilovegiraffes (Red Ryu/Ranmaru)
8. th3kuzinator
9. ScaryLB59 (2) - Zen, Gorf
10. Gheb_01
11. Xatres (1) - Jerkus
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (3) - Gheb_01, Nabe, Frozenflame
13. Joey
14. Werekill
15. Zen

Not voting: FullMetalLynch, Joey

 

[Xatres]

Hey guys, I'll be honest - Today wiped me out. It took me twice as long to get back home from the funeral as it should have thanks to traffic, and I was already wiped from getting up super early, entertaining my niece, and just the emotion of the event in general. I'll be in thread tomorrow afternoon for sure.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Rajam replaces BarDulL. Thanks Rajam!

 

[Xivii]

@Ashemu I need you to hydra with me. I just realized that I'm going to be beyond V/LA this next week or two. Assuming I'm not night killed, I will hardly be able to participate, if at all. I'm going to ask you in private, but I wanted to post the reasoning here. So in case you or mod say no, you wont have had private communication with this slot. So your ability to replace Kuz will not have been ruined.

 

[Xivii]

@ #HBC | Scary my reasoning for you being scum doesn't stem from triple voting. Simply replace any time I've said "our vote" with "your vote". That is my reasoning. The triple vote thing had no reasoning other than I wanted to do it.

-You were continuously asked to move your vote from Frozen, who was inactive, and in which you were getting nothing from (as you admitted yourself). You only moved your vote after I asked you.
-Jerkus made a case on Mac after I asked you to move your vote onto him. Before moving your vote, you asked me sort of like for permission to do so. You asked if we should still move our vote to Jerkus or if we should vote Mac because of the reasoning Jerkus provided. This is what primarily gave me a scum read of you. You did not think to analyze Jerkus or Mac yourself. You did not put any responsibility towards voting one way or the other.
-You are taking on no responsibility for whether or not we lynch scum today. It seems you simply don't care. The majority of your posts have been fluff. Only now after being prodded and voted for have you started to ask questions. You have no reasoning for voting Jerkus. In that "reasoning" post you made for Jerkus, you had him as null, and what even looked more like a town lean read. Despite this, you called on the HBC after I explained why we should vote him.

 

[Lore]

I'll be reading up and responding to stuff tomorrow, I promise guys.

 

[Xivii]

@ #HBC | Scary why did you ask me whether or not we should still vote Jerkus after making his case? Why is your vote still on Jerkus? Who do you think is scum? Do you have a town read on Joey?

@ Jerkus why are you not voting Scary? I get the feeling that you prefer your lynch over his.




There's a lot of V/LA's going on this week. For the sake of making sure we do not end up with a Zen/Soup hydra;

@FullMetalLynch @#HBC | FrozeηFlame @Gheb_01 @ #HBC | Nabe please move your vote to either Jerkus or Scary.

@ Dooms @ Jerkus @ Lore please move your vote to Scary.

 

[#HBC | J]

We do not prefer our lynch over his lol. It's just I have been busy since I finally got back to MD and am have been hanging out with a lot of my old friends instead of being near a computer. I just got home from the movies (BTW, Fault in Our Stars is like the saddest movie ever) and so 1/2 our hydra has been super inactive *me*. I can log into the hydra and switch our vote since Scary can go to simply just get rid of him.

Btw, on a cursory glance, your suspicion of Joey is looking OMGUSy due to how that read came about. Nothing of Joey's post looked like scum trying to whiteknight a slot to gain town-cred especially the way he came about it. I see no reason for Joey to do that and especially because of the person he is. The thing is, you tend to do this when people disagree with you so the action is null. It's also a reason you choose to look at me as scummier if I do not see what you see 100% so I am kind of just null to your push on me at this juncture and null to the push on us. The only viable reason to lynch our slot is for information and that's the only real reason I see to lynch us at this point over an inactive. However, I would rather lynch a slot that I have doubts on over a slot I know is town *us*. I guess I am just chalking it up to you being yourself and leaving it at that considering we just recently talked a bit about your play (you and I).

OoG:

Hint to everyone: *Macman/Ranmaru/Xatres etc.* If someone disagrees with your read or finds your slot scummy, this does not make them scum. Circus has been putting a lot of things people need to know in the thread and I felt the need to throw my cents in as well considering that in this game people are playing with their pants on their head instead of rightly where they should be.

I can maybe stay up for a tad bit more but I am scheduled to get up early and do things. I mainly want to make known my updated opinions on certain slots that I have been questioning.

 

[Xivii]

I believe your meta of me is outdated.

 

[Lore]

Back on for a quick sec.

First off, why move my vote to Scary? I haven't even read everything new yet, which I will in the morning. I'll answer your little call to vote with a yes or no after that.

Second, can we all shut the **** up about meta? Meta meta meta meta meta meta meta! That's all anyone seems to ****in care about so far minus a few posts here and there. It's so damn boring.

 

[Jerkus]

I believe your meta of me is outdated.

We just talked about it........?

Welp, whatever. This isn't important to the game since the meta-argument is dropped from my end but I will say you still do not know how to read me in games.

 

[Xivii]

We just talked about it........?

Welp, whatever. This isn't important to the game since the meta-argument is dropped from my end but I will say you still do not know how to read me in games.

When was this .-.?

I don't find Joey suspicious for voting me. I feel his certainty is suspicious and something about him saying that he liked gorf stopping you from looking into Frozen. Those are both pretty scummy things to do/say xD.

 

[Jerkus]

So I am just gonna blurb some of my personal feelings on reads that I am thinking of. Circus and I are on the same page with pretty much all our reads.

I will say, I am a tad annoyed at the fact that people are using meta for certain people and then ignoring meta for others. But sadly, I digress.

I'll start with Xatres. I think the main reason I find him suspicious is the way he is coming about his reads. I find them incredibly easy especially when he came in saying that his scumreads consistent of quite literally all the popular wagons at the time of his entrance and then when asked for reasoning, he gave none. Then when further pressed for reasoning on his reads, he ignores the questions I asked him and instead sits in his corner shouting "AtE is scummy" and to quote my BETTER HALF "We are not a robot, sorry if we gave you the impression otherwise". AtE is not scummy, like people have emotions so if you truly think this then I just question your ability to think critically as a mafia player. Sorry, but that's my true feelings on that motion and I will stand by it. His spree of posts where he explains and attacks our slot *Only because we started coming at him, mind you* is well....not scummy I suppose. The way I would word Xatres right at this very second would be to say that he is more than likely bad>scum. I have never played with Xatres solo and the last game I played with Dastrn *the hydra* was in Oddworld 4 years ago. Xatres just...well I guess shocks me more than anything since his unprecendented arrogance/smugness is really distasteful in this game and also the fact that his mafia theories are just plain wrong just make me question the slot. For myself, I would investigate this slot at the moment over lynch. Do not trust his judgement though and probably going to look at him through his connections to others.

I<3Giraffe, they are more than likely going on my "I will not be talking to much directly anymore" list because I am tired of being drowned by pointless questions and responses. I just can't. The thing I am doing *unlike anyone else really* is stripping away meta and looking for actual scum-reads through scummy actions over that of "Player X did something so most likely town". I<3Giraffe's reasoning and pushes this game has been completely questionable. Plus there is the fact that literally all game I<3Giraffe has been Zen's cheerleader and just asking his pointless question game that is utterly null to the slot. The more I<3Giraffe posts though, I could town-intent that is highly misguided but I still have a bad taste from the overall atmosphere of his pushes this entire game. Just I do not agree with quite literally anything they have done and they way they have approached their reads this game has come across as scummy due to the nature of their reasoning seeming forced. Especially their early push on FML, their push on us is garbage and mainly just recycling what Zen said and keeps referring back to a lackluster case posted on us, plus his new found Joey suspicion is only because of Zen's response and the fact that Joey is attacking Zen who is quite literally that slots butt-buddy this game. So I would put I<3Giraffe as a null-scum lean still. I just cannot get over the fact that there is something up with their slot.

Macman, I am just going to more than likely assume Macman is town. I am getting a town-intent vibe from him. However, I just do not trust his ability to find scum if all he does is tunnel our slot. I do not know who Macman thinks is our scum-partners or who else he finds as scum. All I can honestly recall from him is the fact that he wants us dead and to be quite honest Circus and I wanna flip just to see Macman's reaction of how poorly he is playing towards our slot and can finally begin to hop off one-side *mine*'s **** for once. Just Macman's infurating because he's just a tunnel-head. He entered the game anti-town, but he's slowly began an incline to appearing more towny so I am okay with him living for now. I do not know if Circus has updated his opinion on Mac truly in the thread but this isn't a slot I (myself as in J) is concerned or interest in looking at the current time.

Werekill is my strongest town-read still. Then Gorf/Joey would be next in line. I will say I find this wagon the most interesting.

12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (3) - Gheb_01, Nabe, Frozenflame

Nabe and FF are two people I have been looking at very carefully in these last couple of pages where they have actually been posting and I am pretty certain this is 1 scum if not 2 in both of them. I would bet a good deal of money on it as well considering what I feel they have posted. I just need to read them in more detail and if we do live past toDay I will more than likely be able to determine who I would like to push. Sadly, we do not have enough time in the day and I do not have the time to do it before day-phase ends. Plus it seems people are settled between us and Scary.

Anyways those are some updated thoughts so;

Unvote
Vote: Scary

 

[Jerkus]

When was this .-.?

I don't find Joey suspicious for voting me. I feel his certainty is suspicious and something about him saying that he liked gorf stopping you from looking into Frozen. Those are both pretty scummy things to do/say xD.

In that PM convo we had where I brought up Castlevania Mafia.

He has not been dead set in thinking we are town but seems to be leaning that way. He sounds certain that he didn't like your stretchy case on us which it was stretchy considering the fact I dismantled it in quick succession and didn't even have to wall at you. Someone else said that they liked Gorf stopping us from having a conversation with Frozen.

Personally, I should have pushed Frozen more but there were quite a lot of other things going on ITT at the time I was posting that. Gorf should not have gotten involved in the conversation, personally. He should have known better to let other reads transpire.

 

[Xivii]

Back on for a quick sec.

First off, why move my vote to Scary? I haven't even read everything new yet, which I will in the morning. I'll answer your little call to vote with a yes or no after that.

Second, can we all shut the **** up about meta? Meta meta meta meta meta meta meta! That's all anyone seems to ****in care about so far minus a few posts here and there. It's so damn boring.

What's with the hostility lol?

To answer your question, I ask you to move your vote to someone that has a chance to be lynched (and I'm assuming you don't want to move it to Jerkus). A lot of peeps are V/LA and we have 1-2 days left and I would like to make sure we don't end up no lynching.

As for the meta thing, not sure what that's all about, but meta is a natural argument for a close nit group of people. Not only is it natural, but it is logical. There's nothing wrong with it at all actually in my opinion. We can talk about it more after the game

 

[Jerkus]

I will say this for the sake of putting things into perspective regarding mine and Circus' attitude this game.

Yes we may be coming off emotional and a tad snarky *I know I am because I am miffed at certain players*, but the thing is: We have been pushed for quite literally all of D1 which has lasted 21 pages. We caught an early wagon by like pg 3-4 which has now turned into a 17+ pg. struggle where everytime we look at the thread someone is asking us to respond to someone, someone else has posted a case on us, or someone is just harping on us to just literally harp on us. Even with two people responding to the thread we cannot keep up to par especially since both of us are lengthy posters. We have tried to conform to what people want of us to do and when we do, we still get flak. This is just a game where we are quite literally damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I am just asking people to look at things through a different perspective and try to look at the game from our shoes. We have been trying to scum-hunt and we have been trying to answer everyone adequately and appropriately, but it's a large game. I normally do not play D1 so it's asking quite a lot of me to even give as much as I have because well it's not fun for me.

This post came about because Macman said we weren't trying to scum-hunt or mainly I wasn't and I just want to call that out as unfair and unjust. We have pushed Xatres and Circus has pushed Macman. Plus we have been looking at different avenues and asking questions. There is also the fact that I am a PoE player and connection based so I do much better as the game goes on.

Anyways, I am going to go to bed now probably so I am done for the evening. I would just suggest people look at us and the game as a whole through a different light or the game is going to incredibly down-hill from after toDay.