TM_icecream
Smash Ace
Guys I literally have the best ASL game in the world
Omg
Omg
-
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MKGD: A new Bat watches over the town
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
lol that confidence in having the best ASL game in the world 
Heartstring
Smash Legend
bum, I copy/pasted it wrong... It doesnt matter now anyway, my bad guys
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
:/ G~P.... -10 on effort 
Anyways, did you place well in it? How was the tourney in general?
Anyways, did you place well in it? How was the tourney in general?
Heartstring
Smash Legend
Tournament sucked. I sucked, came last in the placing (I had won a set though, Byes made me come last lol). It's funny, I hadn't lost a single game untill i decided to use MK, then lost every match from then on.
This would be my worst tournament performance ever (by a long way) so I'm bummed out. Broke my pad during a set (good ol' rage) so i'm stuck with my ****ty one lol
This would be my worst tournament performance ever (by a long way) so I'm bummed out. Broke my pad during a set (good ol' rage) so i'm stuck with my ****ty one lol
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
ahh good ol' rage... Well, may be next time, you can do better...
TM_icecream
Smash Ace
Pocket MKs always suck solo Ike or main mk and use Ike on free people
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Well, I do have a pocket MK that is severely out of practice.... Mainly for doubles and ICs but I have yet to face either.......
Heartstring
Smash Legend
It's normally good. I just ****ed up so bad, I was winning and SD'd my last stock away EARLY. sad times
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Aw yeah, hate when that happens SD early in stock...
SD early in stock...
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
Ok here it is guys =) My next mu guide. This time it is about the Snake mu. I took me a lot of time and I apologize for that however it's probably my most detailed guide up to this point so it's definitely worth your time. If you have any questions or things you want to tell me about the guide or past guides be sure to let me know so that I can do something with your input. In the future I will come with more stuff.
Be sure to add me on both facebook(https://www.facebook.com/gijs.deveer.3?ref=tn_tnmn) and skype(gijsdeveer) to ask me questions in person and subscribe to Brawlnetherlands(http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlNetherlands) to see my MK in action. I would really like to show you guys how I play out these guides to give examples about the stuff I write. Also be sure to like this post so that I know how many people actually like my work =)
Further add me on Allisbrawl(http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Soreru.ai) and stay up to date with my work and guides
Next up will be the Marth mu guide. I have exp in this mu from playing Mr.R and Leon and I will again try everything to make it worth everyones time.
Thanks for the time and support <3
VS
Snake MU:
Ratio and why:
The ratio for this mu is in my opinion +1 for MK. This is because you can **** him over when you juggle him or when he is off-stage. You can also get him off-stage with good strings and combo’s pretty easy. However Snake deals much damage when you make a mistake and he actually has a really hard to break defensive game. However you as MK can break it and once you do and play it correct he has serious trouble against you mainly because of how well your moves string and how well your strings can get Snake off-stage.
General Gameplay:
Before I start always go for the higher player port. Port priority really makes a difference in the mu since you can grab him while being next to a grenade while If he has the higher port he can do this. Seriously go for the higher port.
Snake is really heavy which means that he is really hard to KO but also rather easy to combo. However he can always pull out n grenade to blow you up which is 14% fresh and you don’t want that in a mu where you die at 100% from utilt. You simply have to land 3 hits for his 1 hit which means you have to consistently land attacks or you have to not get hit by him at all. Choice is yours however dodging his grenades is still something to watch out for when you camp while if you play aggressive you have to watch out that you don’t make any mistake. Both ways are possible and you should play it on your own preference. He will always try use his defensive game against you and he will try to get the stage control because he is kind of screwed if you get that. He will drop his C4 as fast as possible and start spacing and zoning with his grenades. And honestly every Snake can use them different so you should adapt to how your opponent uses them but some general things every snake does are soft throw to cover up close to him. Dash grab is amazing here since it will get you away from the grenade
He will drop them and hold them for a while which is extremely annoying if you like playing the mu aggressive but keep in mind that he is forced to throw it or shield because eating the hit will put him in a bad position vs MK. He will drop it and try to surprise you with an attack. Those things are very common by snake players and you should be able to see those things coming. Of course he can do much more but I could write an entire guide about how to handle nades. Next are his wicked tilts. His Utilt is really scary at kill% and you should stay very, very cautious because this move is fast and really good. You have to kind of read it to avoid and it will always take big risks to get close to Snake that’s why You should try to bait it by barely staying outside of its range. Many snake players tend to throw it out if you get close even if you are not in range. This move is punishable but if you get to greedy you can eat a 2nd one so you should not get too greedy with punishing it.
Ftilt also is a really good move he has however it’s really punishable if the snake spaces it crappy. If the snake uses it crappy you should know when you can shield grab it because this move moves snake forward. Know that you can grab him after Ftilt 2 in some cases and do this to get momentum.
Last move you should really watch out for is his grab. His Dthrow is really, really good. Especially on platforms and close to the ledge. He can cover all options by shielding however his shield will get smaller so he is forced to do something at some point so keep that in mind. He can’t stand there and
Important things you should know is that you should not focus on zoning and poking like you do in most mu’s You rather try to bait him to get in 1 hit to follow with a combo to get him off-stage or in the air where you can do serious damage. You should put the focus on getting in on Snake as fast as possible while considering how you should stay safe so that you won’t get punished every single time. So let’s start with the neutral stance for this style. He will go for his defensive stage control game. He will place his c4 and throw nades at you on various ways. Now you start the match by looking for an opening to land a hit. You can try to look for an opening on his grounded game and in his Arial game. If you find a opening grounded the best way to punish is dash grab in my opinion You can also Dtilt to grab or ftilt. But in general you want to get him from the ground because you can start to build your advantage. He will in general try to get away from you in this kind of cases which means he is forced to corner himself or use his midair jump and in both cases you have a big advantage. If he decides to go higher in the air you will be able to juggle him Which I will explain later. If he corners himself on the side of the stage he will have less space to work with which is a problem for Snake. You will also be able to get him off-stage much faster. However it’s not like Snake has no options here. I will go into more of that in the juggling section.
Juggling Snake:
So Snake is a character that is easy to juggle if you know how to juggle him. However a lot of people make small and simple yet divesting mistakes. Snake has not many good options but he still has options which you have to react properly to. First of all his has 5 arials which all have great knockback and do a lot of damage. You don’t want them to hit you. Next he has an air dodge which is pretty basic. He can also use be reversals with: Down, side and Neutral special. Side special is slow and good Snake’s will not use it at all unless they make a technical error. Other than that he could use his jump but this is not really useful because it limits his options even more and it doesn’t bring him below MK either.
So let’s go over his 3 main options.
1.Arial. He has 5 arials of which 1 is really dangerous. His Bair. His bair deals serious damage and knockback. It’s also not to slow . This move is mostly used with a fast fall. The best way to usually counter this move is to fast fall Uair it. You have to get used to the timing to do this but once you know how to It will really work out for you. If you are closer to the stage the best way to counter this is to get to the ground quickly and grab him or use a Dsmash/GSL at high %. This is safe in most cases because Bair has more than enough Landing lag to punish it properly.
His Nair is the 2nd arial he can use. This one is kind of bad and really long but it can still catch you off guard. However you should not get hit by it if you juggle Snake correctly. Since it is so long he actually has to start it early to avoid the tons of landing lag this move has. This means that once he gets lower he will not use this move anymore. This is mostly used against MK players that are spamming Uair without thinking and knowing what they are doing and it often works out for the Snake player. Thus Know that Snake has this move and don’t Uair without thinking. You should have a reason to throw out the Uair. To lead into a frame trap or to land a hit? Maybe even to bait him but never without any purpose.
His dair is another bad arial to use as land option. For one this move has 4 hits which will never connect if you SDI correctly. The only hit that you must avoid at all cost is the last one. This move also has kind of bad range so it’s also kind of easy to Uair it. However if he comes with a fast fall and this move it sometimes kind of surprises MK’s because like nobody uses it. If he does this he and hits with the 1st or 2nd hit he will probably fall though you before the 3th or 4th hit connect thus enough space for you to punish with dair. If he does this lower he will get landing lag which is a lot. Punish it by putting him back in the air.
His next arial is fair. So this arial is the slowest for a hit to come out. It has huge startup time and it’s hit box doesn’t suit landing at all. This is just never used for landing and if it is punish it. If you are not in front of Snake it won’t hit. SL it If you notice it.
His last arial option is to use his Uair. This move is useable if the snake fast falls it to open holes. However Bair is better in most cases. If he does this you should be able to punish it with our usual tools which I will name next.
In General his arials all are slow, Long and with tons of ending lag. The exception is Bair. Snake’s Bair has a lot of ending lag and it’s still slow and long but it’s by far his best landing arial.
Punish all of his arials with Nado, GLS, Uair, Grab or grounded with Tilts, Dsmash
If you are higher in the air Uair is the most safe or you can try to read it and just shuttle loop.If he tries to get past you from the side You can simple ASL, Fair, Bair, Nair or Dair. ASL is dangerous because you are screwed if he air dodges. However it gives great pay-off. This is mostly used when he tries to B-reversal past you.
I Like staying rather close to the stage while juggling because He can’t really use dair or Nair or Fair anymore. Removing 3 of his options which leads to your advantage. Closer to the stage you have tons of options. If he uses a arial I just nado It. He can’t do stuff about that and is back in the air again. If I can throw Snake off-stage I will use Dtilt or Dthrow to get him off-stage. This is usually how I juggle Snake but you can also just bait him to use an arial and then Punish.
His 2nd option is to air dodge. This is pretty basic. He uses air dodge to avoid your moves. This mostly pays off against greedy MK’s or MK’s that keep throwing out useless moves. Air dodge is easy to bait and you should try to find habits with this. Lots of Snake tend To Air dodge around the same time every time they have to land. And lots of them keep doing this over and over. Expect this to be used and punish with fast fall nair or Dair.
His last and probably hardest option to punish is B-reversal. It can be done with Down, Side and neutral special but there is like no snake that uses it on side special except for when they make a tech error. The hard part is that this reverses momentum which can mess with your positioning. This is also why I like juggling him close to the stage. B-reversal becomes less useful because he travels less distance. The thing about this that is most annoying is that if he does it with neutral special and you hit his nade you will blow up yourself. I usually struggle to punish this which is a personal mistake I often make. Once he decides to hold the grenade he will lose lots of his momentum. All of your moves will blow up the grenade. You can go for dash grabs if you are closer to the stage. Shuttle loop well-spaced also will pay off really well. Other than that you shouldn’t overcommit on this. Just take your time and position yourself to get him off-stage or back in the air to start over.
If he does this with downB it’s really punishable if you are in ASL range. Just ASL it. If not then stay away from the C4 and try to get back to him to go over the juggle again.
He can drop a C4 when in the air but it falls straight down. He can use this to give you some kind of obstacle to deal with. Since it falls down you can’t simply jump over it. Decide where it is and try to go past it without getting in its range.
When Snake is juggling you:
Snake doesn’t really juggle you however if you have to land Snake can be kind of scary. Do never land close to him. It’s just really, really stupid. He has tilts, grabs and jab, Usmash and more. I sometimes feel like MK’s Let Snake give them free hits because of how stupid they land. So that pointed out let’s go over the options Snake has when you try to land smart.
First of he has dash attack. This is fast and covers a good space. You can avoid it by landing on a platform but then Snake can pressure with Utilt from below which is bad. Try to prevent this from happening. Dash attack is also kind of predictable. It’s either that or Dacus when you are farther away from him while landing. You can punish dash attack with nado or dair. Both are kind of easy to land imo.
Dacus is his 2nd option to punish you landing. It’s kind of good since it’s fast and goes far but it’s predictable and you can punish it by using nado or dair. However the mortar can hit you which is dangerous.
(basic grenade play)
He can throw grenades to you and this can be annoying when they are cooked. Try to remember where they are and try to keep in mind where he can put them from his position and which options he has at that moment. For example when he picks one he can do several things. He can hold it, he can use shield, roll or Spot dodge to drop it. He can soft, medium or hard throw it or he can just to throw it. Remember this every time he gets a nade and keep in mind what he does with these. After every action he has new options and some options will disappear. Keep that in mind and change your plan to adapt on the situation. This is really important in this mu. Since it is something that every Snake uses and every snake uses different option and after they do they have new options. Which I hopefully don’t have to explain. A snake that doesn’t use nades correct is easy because you can just nado all of his moves right away. And avoid his nades easily at the same time
When Snake is off-stage:
So this is basically where you want him the most. His recovery is really slow and he is forced to give himself damage with his C4 every time you come off-stage and he is far enough off-stage. So every single time He can’t make it back by just dropping from his cypher you should go off-stage and gimp him or at least make tons of free damage. Snake off-stage is actually pretty hard if you don’t know how to play it once he is closer to the stage. It becomes harder to actually gimp him. It’s still a really good position for you since you can react to most of his options and the other ones are rather easy to predict. He can drop his cypher and air dodge your upB and get to the ledge. This is something I myself find out to work quite well vs really greedy MK’s or when I have the lead and the MK starts spamming options to kill. Other than that he can use his grenade if he is really close or when he has momentum. But if you space upB right he will still get it’s knockback and die. He can drop a C4 however Snake will usually do this really fast if he finds out that you are coming off-stage to gimp him. Another thing he can do when he drops from the cypher is an arial. I explained how to handle those, This isn’t any different. Now he can go low or high. If he goes low he’s dead or at least should be dead. He can’t drop from the cypher without using his C4 right after and thus only has 2 options. Holding on to his cypher or letting it go and use his C4. While the C4 can sometimes be hard to get him for because he is farther away. He still damages himself and he will go up in which case you can wait for him to blow it and then punish after that. If he is above like 140% he has to tech the stage at most stages if the C4 is fresh which it mostly is. This means you can wait for him at the edge and punish it. He has no other options to survive here.
If he goes high then he has more options. If you are closer to the Snake you should be able to read his MAJ to upB. He will mostly go for it. If he doesn’t he has to go low which sucks. So if you get him off-stage go to the edge of the stage and wait there go off-stage once you see him moving and be prepared for him to go high.
If you are not off-stage and you miss him while he goes up you can always go for the juggle which I explained already.
When you are off-stage:
So what if you need to recover? I mean It’s Snake but that does not mean that you can recover without any cautiously. First off he can even though it sounds weird punish your glide with sideB. Don’t start a glide when he uses a sideB. Simple downB to the ledge since he has cooling down anyway. He can Usmash you which is good if you try to recover high. He can throw nades off-stage which prevents you from doing random attacks. Especially when they are cooked you should watch out for them. And last but not least he can get off-stage and go for an arial. Snake will not do this unless he is behind and has to kill you or when he is too greedy.
Now what can you do against those options? First off sideB, this move is not that usefull since it’s
kind of slow and Mk can easily avoid it if he is not playing stupid. When Snake uses this just go to the ledge and avoid this.
The next option he has is Usmash. This is only helpful if you recover high. Or when it’s fully charged since it can fall from above past the stage in which case it can kind of cover the ledge. If he does this just wait for the mortar to fall down. If you don’t have any jumps left don’t use Nado or upB. Just downB to the ledge.
Next he can throw nades off-stage. Now this is a pretty big option since like on-stage he has tons of options with them. He can cook them and soft throw them to let them explode at the ledge, He can throw them into your moves like Nado, He can cook and then normal toss it to let them have a arc to cover the ledge options from MK. It’s just too much to name. 1 Thing that you should keep in mind is that he can only use 2 at the time so if he has 2 out know that those are the ones to avoid and know when he can pull out a new one.
Last but not least he can come off-stage and use an arial. Nair and dair are out of the question since they are way too long and cause Snake to be below you. You can also SDI it so he will always be screwed. However RA-Bair is not too bad. It’s quite scary and you should know that it is there. So whenever Snake tempts to do this the safest option is to just nado it and mash to get back on stage. Then he will pop out and you will be able to juggle. You can also just avoid it and screw snake for being off-stage. The choice is to you but try to handle on the situation.
Snake on the ledge:
Snake usually not on the ledge since he recovers high and if he gets to the ledge you are off-stage most off the time in an attempt to gimp him. However if you are ledge guarding him he has no options. He has a slow mid-air jump which you can easily predict. He can use any arial on this so you can just react to the airdodge or just the jump.
He can also use a ledge attack. This is useful but if he has more than 100% it’s really slow. If you are really close to the ledge lots of snake’s do this.
He can jump from the ledge but that will put him in the position for you to juggle him which is also kind of easy to react to. And he can ledge roll but this is also really slow.
So when you actually get this position you really have a great advantage, Use this.
When you are on the ledge:
Snake is dangerous when you are on the ledge. He can cover every option and punishes hard. Especially if you are in kill range. This since above 100% your ledge options get slower and more punishable. First off Snake can kill you really easily if you are not careful enough because he can Utilt you for mistakes on the ledge.
Now the options you have.
First of are the basic ones Ledge attack and ledge roll and regular get-up.
Ledge attack is a good option to counter him when he is too greedy or makes a mistake. However lots of players bait this and punish this easily when shielded. If you are at high% be really careful with this. You don’t want to die from Utilt at 98%.
The next one is ledge roll. Only do this when he charge Fsmash or something really slow. He can just grab you and start a tech chase on you or just Utilt at high%.
Last one is ledge getup. This is is like the other 2. However you don’t really get out of the bad position so you don’t really have much profit from it. Use it to get on really quik and get the hell out if you are on stage.
Now let’s go into the better and more detailed option. First of the ledge jump.
This is pretty useful vs Snake. He has to be close to the ledge to punish grounded or needs a Usmash to punish grounded. Other than that he can only punish with an arial in which case he kind of needs a read and he gave away the advantage if it misses because MK can get back on stage pretty safe thanks to the arial lag.
However if he reads it your dead so watch out with it. Mix up the timing while planking and if you do it get away and don’t try to hit him out of this position because you are still at a disadvantage.
Next is the ledge drop. This is useful overall. You can use it to plank to use a midair jump to get on stage with an arial or airdodge and of course to get farther away and glide into the stage. You can on some stage use it to get to a platform, Smashville is a good example.
Overall watch how Snake edge guards you in general. This can be different from player to player. Then wait for his actions and try to bait him to do something so that you can punish it with the correct option. Never just use an option to get up. This usually leads to habits. Be patient and don’t mind to be on the ledge for minutes if needed.
How to get the kill:
So Snake is like we all know really heavy which leads to him living long. This means you have to do lots of damage to him. Our kill options are like in every mu however I don’t like options Like Dsmash as much because of his grenades. My favorite kill moves vs Snake are GSL, ASL and Nair but you could land kills with Uair Dsmash, Utilt, Fsmash and Dair(mostly gimps at really high%).
Uair is mostly out of a juggle when he is really high in the air. You read his action when you are really high and punish with Utilt. This can kill around different percentages depending on how high you land it and how stale it is.
As for Dsmash, I like to punish his landing with this or rolls this mainly because this moves blows up grenades and means you eat 14% every time you hit a grenade with. You can use this if you like but I myself in general don’t really like it in this mu.
Utilt is really good to punish obvious landing options. It has a lot of range and it lasts long. It’s perfect to punish arials or airdodges when he is lower and at high%
Fsmash is really good for edge guarding since snake on the ledge can’t really punish it. It’s also good to punish landings options, Dodges or rolls when you read them. However it’s not really usefull outside of reads and edge guards.
Dair is like in most mu’s a gimp tool. While it is true that you don’t really gimp snake with this move it is true that you put him in terrible positions and overall this leads to kills very often. At high to really high percentages you can also kill snake with this.
Now the kill Options I like the most which are Nair, GSL and ASL. All these moves are amazing vs Snake.
GSL is like in every mu an amazing move in this mu. It goes right through everything including grenades which is why I like this so much. I blows them up in his face without you getting hit. Which leads to tons of damage and a lot of knockback. This is also amazing to punish his landing options. You basically beat everything if you use this correct. Use this when he lands with arials and you didn’t read it because this is fast enough. Use this when you are close to him at high% because it beats grabs, tilts and everything. Use this when you and Snake are in the middle of bombs and nades. Use this when you know Snake will dacus or dash attack. To many ways to use it. It’s that good.
We can also use ASL. This is mostly used off-stage. You can use it everywhere because the trajectory will make you hit the cypher so you never get into free fall. Use this when Snake is off-stage and has no options to get to the ledge from dropping his cypher. You are guaranteed to land it, Well 99% sure. You can also use this as combo finisher or reading tool. Like when he lands and you read an arial or airdodge. You can also read B-reversals with it pretty often. As for combo finishers, It starts really fast and knocks him off-stage from most positions. It’s a good follow up for Uair strings or other arials. It’s also useful as follow up for Fthrow or Bthrow.
Last but not least we have an amazing nair. This is great off-stage and more safe then ASL however ASL gives a better reward. But your better of using this if you know it will kill instead of ASL. This is also great out of juggles. To punish arials or B-reversals. It’s not that amazing vs arials because It does not outrange them as well as most other moves you have there. It’s more dangerous so you can better just not use it for that purpose. It’s amazing for dodge or roll reads as well.
How to avoid the kill:
This is a really hard aspect of the mu. Snake has a lot of kill moves and this means you are forced to avoid a lot of moves which can be hard.
Most notorious is Utilt. It kill MK around 100% at all the stages and in many cases even earlier. This move has amazing range and it’s also really fast. He also has many ways to land it like Dthrow tech chasses and just blond reads. You have to know exactly where this move can hit you. He can beat nado wit hit so you should never approach with nado at high%. On the ledge you should watch out for this but I already explained that. You have to watch out when landing. Just don’t try to land close to snake, choose the safe way and get away from him. If he grabs you, you should really pay attention like really much. If you stay on the ground he can Utilt you, If you roll backward he can Utilt you, If you do normal getup he can Utilt you, if you do getup attack he can shield it and Utilt you and if you do forward roll he can Utilt you. Never get grabbed when you are at high% because you have a big change to die especially if your forward roll is taken away because you are close to the ledge. This is since Snake kind of has to read it or react really fast to punish it with Utilt. The other options don’t require this speed of reaction unless you do regular getup to reverse GSL. But this only works if he drops his shield. Never roll behind him or to him because you eat Utilt as well. Never do this in general vs Snake because you will eat a grab or 21%.
Now I explained the most important ways of which most MK’s get hit by Utilt but this move can also punish things like SH arial or Spot dodges. It’s just really dangerous so be really patient and careful.
But that’s not it however. Snake can kill you with Ftilt if he didn’t use it like 20 times in the match already which some snake’s do. Like Utilt watch out for this, It kills later but if it can kill you it’s just as scary as Utilt is.
You can also die from Uair or Bair. These are mostly airdodge or bad spaced arial reads. You should watch out for these if you are juggling him since your dead if they hit you above 120% for sure. And you die in a lot of cases earlier then this but above 120% your dead for sure. Snake can kill with grenades as well but you have to be around 180% in most cases because they are stale almost always. However be really careful when you just took his stock while you are still at kill% since fresh grenades kill you around 150%ish. He can also kill with Usmash. This is annoying but Usmash is not to hard to avoid if you are not trying to approach him from above the entire time. Like I said a couple of times don’t land close to him is the best way to avoid this. Watch out for the dacus though, It’s really annoying if he gets under you with dacus and shoots the mortar in your face from there.
The last important kill move while actually not really a kill move is grab. This leads to grab releases and tech chases. Getting grabbed at kill% is just not pleasant.
Ending:
In the end this can really be a hard or easy mu depending on how well you punish his disadvantages and how well you get him into this situations. Snake is really hard when you are around 120% since you have to bait and read him in order to not get killed. This mu is at the other side really good for you at low% since you can really do 80% to snake in no time and he really ****s his pants if he gets knocked off-stage even at lower%. MK can kill Snake Really early and remember that you are MK so he will always fear you more than you should fear him.
Be sure to add me on both facebook(https://www.facebook.com/gijs.deveer.3?ref=tn_tnmn) and skype(gijsdeveer) to ask me questions in person and subscribe to Brawlnetherlands(http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlNetherlands) to see my MK in action. I would really like to show you guys how I play out these guides to give examples about the stuff I write. Also be sure to like this post so that I know how many people actually like my work =)
Further add me on Allisbrawl(http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Soreru.ai) and stay up to date with my work and guides
Next up will be the Marth mu guide. I have exp in this mu from playing Mr.R and Leon and I will again try everything to make it worth everyones time.
Thanks for the time and support <3
Snake MU:
Ratio and why:
The ratio for this mu is in my opinion +1 for MK. This is because you can **** him over when you juggle him or when he is off-stage. You can also get him off-stage with good strings and combo’s pretty easy. However Snake deals much damage when you make a mistake and he actually has a really hard to break defensive game. However you as MK can break it and once you do and play it correct he has serious trouble against you mainly because of how well your moves string and how well your strings can get Snake off-stage.
General Gameplay:
Before I start always go for the higher player port. Port priority really makes a difference in the mu since you can grab him while being next to a grenade while If he has the higher port he can do this. Seriously go for the higher port.
Snake is really heavy which means that he is really hard to KO but also rather easy to combo. However he can always pull out n grenade to blow you up which is 14% fresh and you don’t want that in a mu where you die at 100% from utilt. You simply have to land 3 hits for his 1 hit which means you have to consistently land attacks or you have to not get hit by him at all. Choice is yours however dodging his grenades is still something to watch out for when you camp while if you play aggressive you have to watch out that you don’t make any mistake. Both ways are possible and you should play it on your own preference. He will always try use his defensive game against you and he will try to get the stage control because he is kind of screwed if you get that. He will drop his C4 as fast as possible and start spacing and zoning with his grenades. And honestly every Snake can use them different so you should adapt to how your opponent uses them but some general things every snake does are soft throw to cover up close to him. Dash grab is amazing here since it will get you away from the grenade
He will drop them and hold them for a while which is extremely annoying if you like playing the mu aggressive but keep in mind that he is forced to throw it or shield because eating the hit will put him in a bad position vs MK. He will drop it and try to surprise you with an attack. Those things are very common by snake players and you should be able to see those things coming. Of course he can do much more but I could write an entire guide about how to handle nades. Next are his wicked tilts. His Utilt is really scary at kill% and you should stay very, very cautious because this move is fast and really good. You have to kind of read it to avoid and it will always take big risks to get close to Snake that’s why You should try to bait it by barely staying outside of its range. Many snake players tend to throw it out if you get close even if you are not in range. This move is punishable but if you get to greedy you can eat a 2nd one so you should not get too greedy with punishing it.
Ftilt also is a really good move he has however it’s really punishable if the snake spaces it crappy. If the snake uses it crappy you should know when you can shield grab it because this move moves snake forward. Know that you can grab him after Ftilt 2 in some cases and do this to get momentum.
Last move you should really watch out for is his grab. His Dthrow is really, really good. Especially on platforms and close to the ledge. He can cover all options by shielding however his shield will get smaller so he is forced to do something at some point so keep that in mind. He can’t stand there and
Important things you should know is that you should not focus on zoning and poking like you do in most mu’s You rather try to bait him to get in 1 hit to follow with a combo to get him off-stage or in the air where you can do serious damage. You should put the focus on getting in on Snake as fast as possible while considering how you should stay safe so that you won’t get punished every single time. So let’s start with the neutral stance for this style. He will go for his defensive stage control game. He will place his c4 and throw nades at you on various ways. Now you start the match by looking for an opening to land a hit. You can try to look for an opening on his grounded game and in his Arial game. If you find a opening grounded the best way to punish is dash grab in my opinion You can also Dtilt to grab or ftilt. But in general you want to get him from the ground because you can start to build your advantage. He will in general try to get away from you in this kind of cases which means he is forced to corner himself or use his midair jump and in both cases you have a big advantage. If he decides to go higher in the air you will be able to juggle him Which I will explain later. If he corners himself on the side of the stage he will have less space to work with which is a problem for Snake. You will also be able to get him off-stage much faster. However it’s not like Snake has no options here. I will go into more of that in the juggling section.
Juggling Snake:
So Snake is a character that is easy to juggle if you know how to juggle him. However a lot of people make small and simple yet divesting mistakes. Snake has not many good options but he still has options which you have to react properly to. First of all his has 5 arials which all have great knockback and do a lot of damage. You don’t want them to hit you. Next he has an air dodge which is pretty basic. He can also use be reversals with: Down, side and Neutral special. Side special is slow and good Snake’s will not use it at all unless they make a technical error. Other than that he could use his jump but this is not really useful because it limits his options even more and it doesn’t bring him below MK either.
So let’s go over his 3 main options.
1.Arial. He has 5 arials of which 1 is really dangerous. His Bair. His bair deals serious damage and knockback. It’s also not to slow . This move is mostly used with a fast fall. The best way to usually counter this move is to fast fall Uair it. You have to get used to the timing to do this but once you know how to It will really work out for you. If you are closer to the stage the best way to counter this is to get to the ground quickly and grab him or use a Dsmash/GSL at high %. This is safe in most cases because Bair has more than enough Landing lag to punish it properly.
His Nair is the 2nd arial he can use. This one is kind of bad and really long but it can still catch you off guard. However you should not get hit by it if you juggle Snake correctly. Since it is so long he actually has to start it early to avoid the tons of landing lag this move has. This means that once he gets lower he will not use this move anymore. This is mostly used against MK players that are spamming Uair without thinking and knowing what they are doing and it often works out for the Snake player. Thus Know that Snake has this move and don’t Uair without thinking. You should have a reason to throw out the Uair. To lead into a frame trap or to land a hit? Maybe even to bait him but never without any purpose.
His dair is another bad arial to use as land option. For one this move has 4 hits which will never connect if you SDI correctly. The only hit that you must avoid at all cost is the last one. This move also has kind of bad range so it’s also kind of easy to Uair it. However if he comes with a fast fall and this move it sometimes kind of surprises MK’s because like nobody uses it. If he does this he and hits with the 1st or 2nd hit he will probably fall though you before the 3th or 4th hit connect thus enough space for you to punish with dair. If he does this lower he will get landing lag which is a lot. Punish it by putting him back in the air.
His next arial is fair. So this arial is the slowest for a hit to come out. It has huge startup time and it’s hit box doesn’t suit landing at all. This is just never used for landing and if it is punish it. If you are not in front of Snake it won’t hit. SL it If you notice it.
His last arial option is to use his Uair. This move is useable if the snake fast falls it to open holes. However Bair is better in most cases. If he does this you should be able to punish it with our usual tools which I will name next.
In General his arials all are slow, Long and with tons of ending lag. The exception is Bair. Snake’s Bair has a lot of ending lag and it’s still slow and long but it’s by far his best landing arial.
Punish all of his arials with Nado, GLS, Uair, Grab or grounded with Tilts, Dsmash
If you are higher in the air Uair is the most safe or you can try to read it and just shuttle loop.If he tries to get past you from the side You can simple ASL, Fair, Bair, Nair or Dair. ASL is dangerous because you are screwed if he air dodges. However it gives great pay-off. This is mostly used when he tries to B-reversal past you.
I Like staying rather close to the stage while juggling because He can’t really use dair or Nair or Fair anymore. Removing 3 of his options which leads to your advantage. Closer to the stage you have tons of options. If he uses a arial I just nado It. He can’t do stuff about that and is back in the air again. If I can throw Snake off-stage I will use Dtilt or Dthrow to get him off-stage. This is usually how I juggle Snake but you can also just bait him to use an arial and then Punish.
His 2nd option is to air dodge. This is pretty basic. He uses air dodge to avoid your moves. This mostly pays off against greedy MK’s or MK’s that keep throwing out useless moves. Air dodge is easy to bait and you should try to find habits with this. Lots of Snake tend To Air dodge around the same time every time they have to land. And lots of them keep doing this over and over. Expect this to be used and punish with fast fall nair or Dair.
His last and probably hardest option to punish is B-reversal. It can be done with Down, Side and neutral special but there is like no snake that uses it on side special except for when they make a tech error. The hard part is that this reverses momentum which can mess with your positioning. This is also why I like juggling him close to the stage. B-reversal becomes less useful because he travels less distance. The thing about this that is most annoying is that if he does it with neutral special and you hit his nade you will blow up yourself. I usually struggle to punish this which is a personal mistake I often make. Once he decides to hold the grenade he will lose lots of his momentum. All of your moves will blow up the grenade. You can go for dash grabs if you are closer to the stage. Shuttle loop well-spaced also will pay off really well. Other than that you shouldn’t overcommit on this. Just take your time and position yourself to get him off-stage or back in the air to start over.
If he does this with downB it’s really punishable if you are in ASL range. Just ASL it. If not then stay away from the C4 and try to get back to him to go over the juggle again.
He can drop a C4 when in the air but it falls straight down. He can use this to give you some kind of obstacle to deal with. Since it falls down you can’t simply jump over it. Decide where it is and try to go past it without getting in its range.
When Snake is juggling you:
Snake doesn’t really juggle you however if you have to land Snake can be kind of scary. Do never land close to him. It’s just really, really stupid. He has tilts, grabs and jab, Usmash and more. I sometimes feel like MK’s Let Snake give them free hits because of how stupid they land. So that pointed out let’s go over the options Snake has when you try to land smart.
First of he has dash attack. This is fast and covers a good space. You can avoid it by landing on a platform but then Snake can pressure with Utilt from below which is bad. Try to prevent this from happening. Dash attack is also kind of predictable. It’s either that or Dacus when you are farther away from him while landing. You can punish dash attack with nado or dair. Both are kind of easy to land imo.
Dacus is his 2nd option to punish you landing. It’s kind of good since it’s fast and goes far but it’s predictable and you can punish it by using nado or dair. However the mortar can hit you which is dangerous.
(basic grenade play)
He can throw grenades to you and this can be annoying when they are cooked. Try to remember where they are and try to keep in mind where he can put them from his position and which options he has at that moment. For example when he picks one he can do several things. He can hold it, he can use shield, roll or Spot dodge to drop it. He can soft, medium or hard throw it or he can just to throw it. Remember this every time he gets a nade and keep in mind what he does with these. After every action he has new options and some options will disappear. Keep that in mind and change your plan to adapt on the situation. This is really important in this mu. Since it is something that every Snake uses and every snake uses different option and after they do they have new options. Which I hopefully don’t have to explain. A snake that doesn’t use nades correct is easy because you can just nado all of his moves right away. And avoid his nades easily at the same time
When Snake is off-stage:
So this is basically where you want him the most. His recovery is really slow and he is forced to give himself damage with his C4 every time you come off-stage and he is far enough off-stage. So every single time He can’t make it back by just dropping from his cypher you should go off-stage and gimp him or at least make tons of free damage. Snake off-stage is actually pretty hard if you don’t know how to play it once he is closer to the stage. It becomes harder to actually gimp him. It’s still a really good position for you since you can react to most of his options and the other ones are rather easy to predict. He can drop his cypher and air dodge your upB and get to the ledge. This is something I myself find out to work quite well vs really greedy MK’s or when I have the lead and the MK starts spamming options to kill. Other than that he can use his grenade if he is really close or when he has momentum. But if you space upB right he will still get it’s knockback and die. He can drop a C4 however Snake will usually do this really fast if he finds out that you are coming off-stage to gimp him. Another thing he can do when he drops from the cypher is an arial. I explained how to handle those, This isn’t any different. Now he can go low or high. If he goes low he’s dead or at least should be dead. He can’t drop from the cypher without using his C4 right after and thus only has 2 options. Holding on to his cypher or letting it go and use his C4. While the C4 can sometimes be hard to get him for because he is farther away. He still damages himself and he will go up in which case you can wait for him to blow it and then punish after that. If he is above like 140% he has to tech the stage at most stages if the C4 is fresh which it mostly is. This means you can wait for him at the edge and punish it. He has no other options to survive here.
If he goes high then he has more options. If you are closer to the Snake you should be able to read his MAJ to upB. He will mostly go for it. If he doesn’t he has to go low which sucks. So if you get him off-stage go to the edge of the stage and wait there go off-stage once you see him moving and be prepared for him to go high.
If you are not off-stage and you miss him while he goes up you can always go for the juggle which I explained already.
When you are off-stage:
So what if you need to recover? I mean It’s Snake but that does not mean that you can recover without any cautiously. First off he can even though it sounds weird punish your glide with sideB. Don’t start a glide when he uses a sideB. Simple downB to the ledge since he has cooling down anyway. He can Usmash you which is good if you try to recover high. He can throw nades off-stage which prevents you from doing random attacks. Especially when they are cooked you should watch out for them. And last but not least he can get off-stage and go for an arial. Snake will not do this unless he is behind and has to kill you or when he is too greedy.
Now what can you do against those options? First off sideB, this move is not that usefull since it’s
kind of slow and Mk can easily avoid it if he is not playing stupid. When Snake uses this just go to the ledge and avoid this.
The next option he has is Usmash. This is only helpful if you recover high. Or when it’s fully charged since it can fall from above past the stage in which case it can kind of cover the ledge. If he does this just wait for the mortar to fall down. If you don’t have any jumps left don’t use Nado or upB. Just downB to the ledge.
Next he can throw nades off-stage. Now this is a pretty big option since like on-stage he has tons of options with them. He can cook them and soft throw them to let them explode at the ledge, He can throw them into your moves like Nado, He can cook and then normal toss it to let them have a arc to cover the ledge options from MK. It’s just too much to name. 1 Thing that you should keep in mind is that he can only use 2 at the time so if he has 2 out know that those are the ones to avoid and know when he can pull out a new one.
Last but not least he can come off-stage and use an arial. Nair and dair are out of the question since they are way too long and cause Snake to be below you. You can also SDI it so he will always be screwed. However RA-Bair is not too bad. It’s quite scary and you should know that it is there. So whenever Snake tempts to do this the safest option is to just nado it and mash to get back on stage. Then he will pop out and you will be able to juggle. You can also just avoid it and screw snake for being off-stage. The choice is to you but try to handle on the situation.
Snake on the ledge:
Snake usually not on the ledge since he recovers high and if he gets to the ledge you are off-stage most off the time in an attempt to gimp him. However if you are ledge guarding him he has no options. He has a slow mid-air jump which you can easily predict. He can use any arial on this so you can just react to the airdodge or just the jump.
He can also use a ledge attack. This is useful but if he has more than 100% it’s really slow. If you are really close to the ledge lots of snake’s do this.
He can jump from the ledge but that will put him in the position for you to juggle him which is also kind of easy to react to. And he can ledge roll but this is also really slow.
So when you actually get this position you really have a great advantage, Use this.
When you are on the ledge:
Snake is dangerous when you are on the ledge. He can cover every option and punishes hard. Especially if you are in kill range. This since above 100% your ledge options get slower and more punishable. First off Snake can kill you really easily if you are not careful enough because he can Utilt you for mistakes on the ledge.
Now the options you have.
First of are the basic ones Ledge attack and ledge roll and regular get-up.
Ledge attack is a good option to counter him when he is too greedy or makes a mistake. However lots of players bait this and punish this easily when shielded. If you are at high% be really careful with this. You don’t want to die from Utilt at 98%.
The next one is ledge roll. Only do this when he charge Fsmash or something really slow. He can just grab you and start a tech chase on you or just Utilt at high%.
Last one is ledge getup. This is is like the other 2. However you don’t really get out of the bad position so you don’t really have much profit from it. Use it to get on really quik and get the hell out if you are on stage.
Now let’s go into the better and more detailed option. First of the ledge jump.
This is pretty useful vs Snake. He has to be close to the ledge to punish grounded or needs a Usmash to punish grounded. Other than that he can only punish with an arial in which case he kind of needs a read and he gave away the advantage if it misses because MK can get back on stage pretty safe thanks to the arial lag.
However if he reads it your dead so watch out with it. Mix up the timing while planking and if you do it get away and don’t try to hit him out of this position because you are still at a disadvantage.
Next is the ledge drop. This is useful overall. You can use it to plank to use a midair jump to get on stage with an arial or airdodge and of course to get farther away and glide into the stage. You can on some stage use it to get to a platform, Smashville is a good example.
Overall watch how Snake edge guards you in general. This can be different from player to player. Then wait for his actions and try to bait him to do something so that you can punish it with the correct option. Never just use an option to get up. This usually leads to habits. Be patient and don’t mind to be on the ledge for minutes if needed.
How to get the kill:
So Snake is like we all know really heavy which leads to him living long. This means you have to do lots of damage to him. Our kill options are like in every mu however I don’t like options Like Dsmash as much because of his grenades. My favorite kill moves vs Snake are GSL, ASL and Nair but you could land kills with Uair Dsmash, Utilt, Fsmash and Dair(mostly gimps at really high%).
Uair is mostly out of a juggle when he is really high in the air. You read his action when you are really high and punish with Utilt. This can kill around different percentages depending on how high you land it and how stale it is.
As for Dsmash, I like to punish his landing with this or rolls this mainly because this moves blows up grenades and means you eat 14% every time you hit a grenade with. You can use this if you like but I myself in general don’t really like it in this mu.
Utilt is really good to punish obvious landing options. It has a lot of range and it lasts long. It’s perfect to punish arials or airdodges when he is lower and at high%
Fsmash is really good for edge guarding since snake on the ledge can’t really punish it. It’s also good to punish landings options, Dodges or rolls when you read them. However it’s not really usefull outside of reads and edge guards.
Dair is like in most mu’s a gimp tool. While it is true that you don’t really gimp snake with this move it is true that you put him in terrible positions and overall this leads to kills very often. At high to really high percentages you can also kill snake with this.
Now the kill Options I like the most which are Nair, GSL and ASL. All these moves are amazing vs Snake.
GSL is like in every mu an amazing move in this mu. It goes right through everything including grenades which is why I like this so much. I blows them up in his face without you getting hit. Which leads to tons of damage and a lot of knockback. This is also amazing to punish his landing options. You basically beat everything if you use this correct. Use this when he lands with arials and you didn’t read it because this is fast enough. Use this when you are close to him at high% because it beats grabs, tilts and everything. Use this when you and Snake are in the middle of bombs and nades. Use this when you know Snake will dacus or dash attack. To many ways to use it. It’s that good.
We can also use ASL. This is mostly used off-stage. You can use it everywhere because the trajectory will make you hit the cypher so you never get into free fall. Use this when Snake is off-stage and has no options to get to the ledge from dropping his cypher. You are guaranteed to land it, Well 99% sure. You can also use this as combo finisher or reading tool. Like when he lands and you read an arial or airdodge. You can also read B-reversals with it pretty often. As for combo finishers, It starts really fast and knocks him off-stage from most positions. It’s a good follow up for Uair strings or other arials. It’s also useful as follow up for Fthrow or Bthrow.
Last but not least we have an amazing nair. This is great off-stage and more safe then ASL however ASL gives a better reward. But your better of using this if you know it will kill instead of ASL. This is also great out of juggles. To punish arials or B-reversals. It’s not that amazing vs arials because It does not outrange them as well as most other moves you have there. It’s more dangerous so you can better just not use it for that purpose. It’s amazing for dodge or roll reads as well.
How to avoid the kill:
This is a really hard aspect of the mu. Snake has a lot of kill moves and this means you are forced to avoid a lot of moves which can be hard.
Most notorious is Utilt. It kill MK around 100% at all the stages and in many cases even earlier. This move has amazing range and it’s also really fast. He also has many ways to land it like Dthrow tech chasses and just blond reads. You have to know exactly where this move can hit you. He can beat nado wit hit so you should never approach with nado at high%. On the ledge you should watch out for this but I already explained that. You have to watch out when landing. Just don’t try to land close to snake, choose the safe way and get away from him. If he grabs you, you should really pay attention like really much. If you stay on the ground he can Utilt you, If you roll backward he can Utilt you, If you do normal getup he can Utilt you, if you do getup attack he can shield it and Utilt you and if you do forward roll he can Utilt you. Never get grabbed when you are at high% because you have a big change to die especially if your forward roll is taken away because you are close to the ledge. This is since Snake kind of has to read it or react really fast to punish it with Utilt. The other options don’t require this speed of reaction unless you do regular getup to reverse GSL. But this only works if he drops his shield. Never roll behind him or to him because you eat Utilt as well. Never do this in general vs Snake because you will eat a grab or 21%.
Now I explained the most important ways of which most MK’s get hit by Utilt but this move can also punish things like SH arial or Spot dodges. It’s just really dangerous so be really patient and careful.
But that’s not it however. Snake can kill you with Ftilt if he didn’t use it like 20 times in the match already which some snake’s do. Like Utilt watch out for this, It kills later but if it can kill you it’s just as scary as Utilt is.
You can also die from Uair or Bair. These are mostly airdodge or bad spaced arial reads. You should watch out for these if you are juggling him since your dead if they hit you above 120% for sure. And you die in a lot of cases earlier then this but above 120% your dead for sure. Snake can kill with grenades as well but you have to be around 180% in most cases because they are stale almost always. However be really careful when you just took his stock while you are still at kill% since fresh grenades kill you around 150%ish. He can also kill with Usmash. This is annoying but Usmash is not to hard to avoid if you are not trying to approach him from above the entire time. Like I said a couple of times don’t land close to him is the best way to avoid this. Watch out for the dacus though, It’s really annoying if he gets under you with dacus and shoots the mortar in your face from there.
The last important kill move while actually not really a kill move is grab. This leads to grab releases and tech chases. Getting grabbed at kill% is just not pleasant.
Ending:
In the end this can really be a hard or easy mu depending on how well you punish his disadvantages and how well you get him into this situations. Snake is really hard when you are around 120% since you have to bait and read him in order to not get killed. This mu is at the other side really good for you at low% since you can really do 80% to snake in no time and he really ****s his pants if he gets knocked off-stage even at lower%. MK can kill Snake Really early and remember that you are MK so he will always fear you more than you should fear him.
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Quite lengthy but me gusta thx man!
thx man!
TM_icecream
Smash Ace
Oh gosh.
I'll read it next time I have a spare hour
I'll read it next time I have a spare hour
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
I love the positive feedback from you guys a lot!!
Definitely makes it more fun and worth my time to write the guides.
As for the next guide(Marth), That will be my fifth guide which means It will be my last one in the current word file I am using(This to prevent the complete guide from getting too big and unreadable.)
I will think about a way to share the word file with you guys since I will not post the marth guide on its own on SWF(You can still find it back on my allisbrawl page though).
As for when it’s finished, I don’t know exactly when I finish the Marth mu guide. I will however try to get some Input from Mr. R and Leon before posting it so it will be worth your time even more =)
More updates will follow later, Like I already said
Add me on Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/gijs.deveer.3?ref=tn_tnmn)
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It’s really appreciated by our community to follow/subscribe and like us since we are small and trying to grow as a community. Further I would like to say that I really appreciate the positive comments and the ads on my own pages That are linked above. It really makes me enjoy writing the guides more.
If you have any questions regarding the guides, the Dutch Brawl scene or anything else be sure to ask them in any way you feel like.
Definitely makes it more fun and worth my time to write the guides.
As for the next guide(Marth), That will be my fifth guide which means It will be my last one in the current word file I am using(This to prevent the complete guide from getting too big and unreadable.)
I will think about a way to share the word file with you guys since I will not post the marth guide on its own on SWF(You can still find it back on my allisbrawl page though).
As for when it’s finished, I don’t know exactly when I finish the Marth mu guide. I will however try to get some Input from Mr. R and Leon before posting it so it will be worth your time even more =)
More updates will follow later, Like I already said
Add me on Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/gijs.deveer.3?ref=tn_tnmn)
Add me one Skypez: (gijsdeveer)
Add me on allisbrawl: (http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Soreru.ai)
Subscribe to BrawlNetherlands: (http://www.youtube.com/user/BrawlNetherlands)
Follow Brawlnetherlands on twitter: (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brawlnetherlands/151335008376755)
Like Brawlnetherlands on Facebook: (https://twitter.com/BrawlNL)
It’s really appreciated by our community to follow/subscribe and like us since we are small and trying to grow as a community. Further I would like to say that I really appreciate the positive comments and the ads on my own pages That are linked above. It really makes me enjoy writing the guides more.
If you have any questions regarding the guides, the Dutch Brawl scene or anything else be sure to ask them in any way you feel like.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
Have some more feedback: Don't use black, No-one can see it without highlighting it XD
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
More like that I guess
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
I knew Soreru guy had to do something with you GOofyGV I just knew it!
I just knew it!
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
hahaha xD
yeah I changed my name to Soreru after I moved from Diddy to MK because I wanted to start from the beginning as a fresh player, however Smashboards didn't allow me to change my name without paying for membership which I am not going to do ;P
I wonder though how did you find that out? xD
yeah I changed my name to Soreru after I moved from Diddy to MK because I wanted to start from the beginning as a fresh player, however Smashboards didn't allow me to change my name without paying for membership which I am not going to do ;P
I wonder though how did you find that out? xD
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
I dunno man, I just had a gut feeling lol. And then I saw Snake MU guide on AiB yesterday. Diddy main to MK :D Oh yeah, I heard you get to change the name once or twice a month for when you get the premium.
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
Aight sound good, However it's not that importante ;P
More importante is that everything is going well regarding my onw improvement and RL so expect me to be able to help you guys out more in the future :D
More importante is that everything is going well regarding my onw improvement and RL so expect me to be able to help you guys out more in the future :D
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Of course After all, MU guides are supposed to help those who have zero idea on what to do in a particular MU due to their inexperience and such! Keep it up!
After all, MU guides are supposed to help those who have zero idea on what to do in a particular MU due to their inexperience and such! Keep it up!
Heartstring
Smash Legend
As for the marth matchup:
Rule no.1: Don't get grabbed
Rule no.2: DON'T GET GRABBED
Rule no.3: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T GET GRABBED
I think that covers it
Rule no.1: Don't get grabbed
Rule no.2: DON'T GET GRABBED
Rule no.3: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T GET GRABBED
I think that covers it
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
lol, but... this isn't Fox or any other fastfallers..... Anyways, I think don't get grabbed part also applies to Snake MU as well and many other characters with good grab lol.
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
I covered Snakes grab and yes your right getting grabbed by Snake is really bad especially at kill%
As for Marth, I'll come up with some good stuff ;P
But yeah You should also know what to do if you get grabbed. You are not going to tell me that you can play a bo3 set or even just 1 game against Mr.R or Leon without getting grabbed ;P (I was never able to do so)
As for Marth, I'll come up with some good stuff ;P
But yeah You should also know what to do if you get grabbed. You are not going to tell me that you can play a bo3 set or even just 1 game against Mr.R or Leon without getting grabbed ;P (I was never able to do so)
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
I think you getting grabbed at least once is kind of guaranteed by Brawl's mechanics lol. I dunno why but tripping comes to my mind....
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
depends on the oponent though. If your opponent never grabs you also will never get grabbed
TM_icecream
Smash Ace
Nairo has done entire games with vinnie without ever getting grabbed.
You really CAN not get grabbed.
Just don't approach marth. That's the secret
You really CAN not get grabbed.
Just don't approach marth. That's the secret
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Hmm, I think I saw that but it was against ICs.... You kinda know ICs are always looking to grab you and that's what enables you to not get grabbed but against others where grabs are not as lethal as ICs, I don't think a single person can go not grabbed by other chars unless you are playing non-grabbing opponents as GOofyGV stated. But yeah you are right, Nairo has done it against Vinnie.
By the way, why do you think MK shouldn't approach Marth? Don't MK's spacing tools outrange Marth's?
By the way, why do you think MK shouldn't approach Marth? Don't MK's spacing tools outrange Marth's?
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
depends on the way you space but not going into that now ;P
@ TM_Icecream
Avoiding IC's grab is much much easier.
1. IC's have a much shorter grab range then Marth does.(Marth actually shares his grab range with Diddy and Snake only having 4 or 5 non tether grabs that are linger in range which Are Dedede,Zelda,Squirtle zard and DK)
2. Marth has a much better mobility which makes it harder to consistant keep away from him then IC's
avoiding Marth's grab is also much harder because Marth overal plays a better mu vs Mk without grabs then IC's do since IC's have nothing vs MK without grabs. Which means you actually get ***** when you only focus on not getting grabbed vs Marth.
Not to forget that to avoid grabs consistantly you have to keep jumping which is bad vs Marth, like really bad.
@ TM_Icecream
Avoiding IC's grab is much much easier.
1. IC's have a much shorter grab range then Marth does.(Marth actually shares his grab range with Diddy and Snake only having 4 or 5 non tether grabs that are linger in range which Are Dedede,Zelda,Squirtle zard and DK)
2. Marth has a much better mobility which makes it harder to consistant keep away from him then IC's
avoiding Marth's grab is also much harder because Marth overal plays a better mu vs Mk without grabs then IC's do since IC's have nothing vs MK without grabs. Which means you actually get ***** when you only focus on not getting grabbed vs Marth.
Not to forget that to avoid grabs consistantly you have to keep jumping which is bad vs Marth, like really bad.
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Ah, trying to keep us "un-spoiled" eh? I guess we will have to wait 
I guess we will have to wait
Heartstring
Smash Legend
Aye, Infact, I would argue marth has one of the easiest times grabbing people because of the great combination of mobility, speed and range. This is USUALLY offset by the fact his throws do almost no damage, but Against MK, he has pretty significant guaranteed damage from a grab (Tipper dair is in the Teens somewhere) which also leads to a tech chase scenario AND it kills at like 30% if you get spiked offstage
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Oh and I heard about that tipper killer on MK that Marth has.... So yeah, don't get grabbed kids or you will die
Heartstring
Smash Legend
or if you want to elaborate more, Don't get grabbed in a place that means you get D-aired offstage
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
Oh and that too lol. I've seen a MK main getting killed by that exact set up lol.
TM_icecream
Smash Ace
Ya my point was its POSSIBLE to not get grabbed. It's just not easy lol
But no I'm awful vs marth I just know when I approach I die and when I don't they die lol.
Do what works can ya dig
But no I'm awful vs marth I just know when I approach I die and when I don't they die lol.
Do what works can ya dig
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Just for the sake of inform, Marth's throws aren't bad. At all.
Fthrow and Dthrow get guaranteed combos at low damages.
Fthrow and Uthrow are excellent for positioning and juggling setups.
Uthrow works as an "emercency" killer when everything else is stalled (and it's not a rare scenario).
Bthrow is the only one that doesn't offer anything. And it's ugly.
Damage doesn't mean everything.
Fthrow and Dthrow get guaranteed combos at low damages.
Fthrow and Uthrow are excellent for positioning and juggling setups.
Uthrow works as an "emercency" killer when everything else is stalled (and it's not a rare scenario).
Bthrow is the only one that doesn't offer anything. And it's ugly.
Damage doesn't mean everything.
MK's tilts outrange Marth's but Marth's fair outranges your aerials and he can jump over your tilts, tipper fsmash also happens when you try to just spam tilts...Marth also walks faster than you and moves through the air faster than you. All in all it's kind of a wash and neither character excels at approaching the other as nothing either of you come at each other with is safe, the risk:reward is skewed greatly toward the defender most of the time. The biggest thing IMO is you have to be consistent with manipulating Marth's options when he's being juggled and is off stage, he has guaranteed punishes if you **** up in the neutral zone that are much stronger than what you're going to get off a single hit or guaranteed combo, Marth has problems landing and recovering vs MK and capitalizing on it to the utmost is what puts the MU in MK's favor.
I.S FoxMkloud
Smash Ace
I see. For some reason, I thought MK's aerials also outranged Marth's aerials just like MK's tilts.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
Oh trust me, I know. I am a european after all :B
Theyre particularly dangerous because it's very easy to just react to your opponents action from this and punish accordingly, But having guaranteed high damage from a grab? much worse lol, IMO MK-marth is one of MK's worst matchups (still his favour though lol)