Mk downB aproach.

[Cisne]

If the move its not banned ( which i see as a scrub´s reaction ), then how is Marth supposed to overcome MK advantages with his defensive game ?

 

[gallax]

idk how yet but what i would suggest doing for now is if he gets in close and waits for you to make a move, then you may want to either run away or spotdodge as much as you can. keeping this going is hard enough as it is so getting away and buying more time will help you.

you could also try edgestalling. make him give up his position. who knows. he may try to edgeguard you and you end up grabbing before he does and he falls to his death.

 

[Cisne]

I know that abusing spotdoge or the inv. frames of the edge is usefull.

But is risky to do it againts a character like MK.

Risky = Map spike

 

[Blistering Speed]

If the move its not banned ( which i see as a scrub´s reaction ), then how is Marth supposed to overcome MK advantages with his defensive game ?

It will be banned, don't worry about it. If it isn't, then go back to Melee Marth or pick up MK because you're not going to win otherwise.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

It looks like it is the (unanimous?) opinion that this technique should be banned, so we'll probably see it more often in wi-fi/friendlies. In that case (assuming there isn't a timer), its ability to stall goes down, and if they do stall the entire match, you can just quit. I suggest paying close attention to the camera, wait for him to reappear, and punish him with a fast move (jab, dtilt, Dancing Blade, etc.).

 

[grandmaster192]

this isn't that devastating as an approach. I wouldn't worry about it. Metaknight's normal moves are more of a problem for Marth.

 

[VietGeek]

this isn't that devastating as an approach. I wouldn't worry about it. Metaknight's normal moves are more of a problem for Marth.

Whether or not it as impressive of an approach or not is irrelevant. At almost any time, if he has enough time to do it, he can get out of any sticky situation, avoid whatever attempts you have at punishing him, and how exactly you can punish him dissolves down to whether or not he screws up.

Otherwise, he pulls the strings, he will always have the advantage. Even if he's not stalling, it's a move with almost no setbacks. A few frames of lag (assuming you don't use the attack out of it) and that's it. Such low risk for such high reward, and it can be called upon by demand.

Not worrying about it because it's banned is one thing, but underestimating the fact that it shuts down any attempts at Marth defending is another.

No, going aggro on him to attempt to overwhelm him is stupid. He'll run over you and about every other character in the roster.

Simply put: He controls the match. You don't, and if you do, you'll lose control of it soon. It'll dissolve into MK vs. MK. That's what will happen even if we allow this in small increments.

Well, when someone good masters it anyway. I guess we'll be seeing a lot of Nunchuk combo users soon, eh?

 

[∫unk]

This is banned. As far a countering it, good luck. You can kind of tell where they are with the camera angle but this technique will rule free for all, wifi, and friendlies for years to come.

 

[xXZeroXx]

I don't see it as a dangerous move. I really do think that it has enough lag to punish him (at least I can). I mean, people who uses MK (vs me and in videos on youtube) never use down b, it's attack is slow and as for getting away, well, as said, I haven't seen any MK using it often...
Maybe they don't use it because it's banned.

Edit: I have just seen it's infinite. SSBB programmer sucks...

 

[Pierce7d]

It will be banned, don't worry about it. If it isn't, then go back to Melee Marth or pick up MK because you're not going to win otherwise.

I cosign this, and what Viet said.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Downsides
You can follow the camera to see where he's going.
He can't jump.
And unless turbo controllers are allowed he probably can't keep this up for more than 15 seconds.

He can just stall the match forever if he wishes, and doesn't mess up. Anyone with half a brain sees this as stalling though, and it will be banned.

So until then:
Go stand on a platform.
Stay at ledge dropping down and jumping, because he won't attack you once your off the ledge. If you DS you might get ledgehogged, or hit once you land on the stage.
Follow the camera and anticipate his moves, if it's been a few seconds already he might run since his fingers might be getting tired. So chase him and DB his lag.

 

[Retroking2000]

^ i agree the camera will change you will notice it immediately .

 

[Yuna]

He moves quite fast, though. So if he's got a brain and doesn't initiate it right next to you, you won't be able to catch up to him.

 

[Pierce7d]

Downsides
You can follow the camera to see where he's going.
He can't jump.
And unless turbo controllers are allowed he probably can't keep this up for more than 15 seconds.

He can just stall the match forever if he wishes, and doesn't mess up. Anyone with half a brain sees this as stalling though, and it will be banned.

So until then:
Go stand on a platform.
Stay at ledge dropping down and jumping, because he won't attack you once your off the ledge. If you DS you might get ledgehogged, or hit once you land on the stage.
Follow the camera and anticipate his moves, if it's been a few seconds already he might run since his fingers might be getting tired. So chase him and DB his lag.

The only platform high enough out of all the neutrals is the top platform on Battlefield.

And you should never rely on a proficient opponent failing in a technique they are likely to have practiced.

 

[Aran]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if D3 infinites on 7 characters aren't getting banned, there's no chance this is getting banned.

 

[Pierce7d]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if D3 infinites on 7 characters aren't getting banned, there's no chance this is getting banned.

(off topic: D3 infinites on 4 characters.)

Wrong. Supposedly, many BRoomers are already calling for the ban, and it's highly desired to receive a ban by the majority of the Smash Community.

 

[Aran]

MK doesn't really get invincibility frames when he's doing this, though, does he?

 

[Doggalina]

He's invisible, Aran. You can't hit him.

 

[Pierce7d]

MK doesn't really get invincibility frames when he's doing this, though, does he?

He's invincible and invisible for the entire duration. Furthermore, he can attack at anytime without a moment's notice, so it is impossible to consistently block it.

 

[Aran]

i realized the invisible part, but if you predicted well enough, you could hit him out of it easily with something like the sword dance. i also don't think it's invincible throughout the duration, because when you use down b only once, you have invincibilty for barely any part of the move. It's basically just like you're running forward while invisible. You can try it out against a friend. He'll be completely invisible, and you can still hit him with practically anything. I've been hit out of down b's by fsmashes before. So it really remains to be tested whether this specific tech somehow gives invulnerability frames. I'll test this when I get off work, but I doubt it will. If not, it should be easy to stop for most characters with either continuous dtilting, dsmashing, ftilting, in some cases up smashing, or whatever special move a character has (ie. dk's downb, or projectiles, or pit's sideb, or mk's tornado, etc...) that can knock him out easily. Invisibility doesn't mean much to a pit arrow.

 

[__V]

He's invincible, and technically invisible. If you're used to the camera movement, you can accurately measure where they are anyway. Also, there's significant lag in between his reappearing and attack frames. Almost enough lag for me to Fsmash my friend with Ike when he reappears....

Just make MK reappear into Dancing Blade, or set him up into a Counter. Or, you could always just grab him...

 

[Cisne]

So hitting MK with ike´s Fsmash when he reappears. Let me say "No".


I think theres enough time to perfectshield/counter it. But even then, its an almost perfect aproach.

 

[Ulevo]

This is not nearly as bad as everyone claims, and it is being totally over hyped.

It is an absolutely broken stall tactic. It is not a broken approach. You can't stop the approach, granted, but the benefits Meta Knight is given by this is limited to by passing projectiles and grabbing a near by ledge. There is too much lag on the move for it to be of any serious danger to Marth. Not only that, but it isn't the best move to get out of a tight spot either. It might work if Meta Knight is cornered and has enough space to use it, but Meta Knight needs enough time to both activate it and let the start up lag go through so he isn't hit. He is only invincible once he completely vanishes, which takes a significant amount of time.

This is not broken people. It simply isn't. You take the stalling aspect away, and it's just a good defense/anti projectile tech. Try using this in matches before stating otherwise.

 

[Cisne]

I was going to say it , but you did anyway.

Let a smart Mk use it on you.

Then come here and tell me if he left your defensive game useless.

Im not saying that is a good aproach every time. But there are risky %s, that can leave in the air for maybe a well timed shutle loop.

If he needs to play defensive for his last stock, then he can just use it to hit you until he starKO you.
The presure of having to perfectshield a hit that can come anytime can make you counter when no sword is being swung at you, meaning your last stock is out.

 

[OmegaXF]

I don't see it as a dangerous move. I really do think that it has enough lag to punish him (at least I can). I mean, people who uses MK (vs me and in videos on youtube) never use down b, it's attack is slow and as for getting away, well, as said, I haven't seen any MK using it often...
Maybe they don't use it because it's banned.

Edit: I have just seen it's infinite. SSBB programmer sucks...

It's not the point of DownB being a slow attack its the fact that he becomes a god and cant be hit and can control the pace of the match. On top of that he can go N E WHERE!! Well at least on the same level. Still this looks like trouble, better read your opponent quick and ready that counter lol!!