Mission Complete!- Fox Discussion Thread

~ Gheb ~

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So I've pulled off Fox' jab cancels a number of times on the Wii U version and 3DS and I'm REALLY interested in frame data now. Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> usmash/dsmash/grab worked a number of times. Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> repeat also seems to work. You can repeat it over and over against some characters from one side of the stage to the other. Seems to be inescapable against some characters too. I really need to know the frame data of this, especially the frame advantage gained by hitting jab 2. It should be made public knowledge too because it could be huge.

I summon thee @ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer !

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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but i have so many things on my plate already ;___;
How much work is it to figure out frame advantage of moves? If you know somebody who has time to find out frame advantage of Fox jab 1 on hit could you ask that person to do that?

:059:
 

M@v

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I can do jab cancels and double jab cancels 100% of the time in smash 4. The timing is very similar to Brawl fox's. Also, after grinding a while, I think I'm finally getting a grasp on Smash 4 Fox and I'm adjusting my play in the ways I need to in order to play him right :)
 

DavemanCozy

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I've found that the Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> follow up (d-smash, u-smash, grab, etc) aren't necessarily guaranteed. Some characters can escape with their own jab at low percentages (ZSS, for example) and character's with quick N-airs (Ness, Peach) can escape at high percents, since the second Jab will slightly pop characters in the air. Probably the best option we have in this case is shield the incoming N-air and punish it with U-smash OoS.

Also, anyone with a counter can interrupt the impending D-smash or U-smash after the 2nd jab, though we can counter their counter attempt (lelz) with a grab of our own instead.

Fox's jab 1 -> jab 2 "combos" (since they're not necessarily true combos) are pretty amazing though.

Whats up fox boards! I made a little basic competitive guide for Fox and I was hoping if you guys could provide some insight on other good things with fox, or maybe some things I missed. I'm not a Fox main so my guide is probably incomplete, but I think it gives beginners a good enough sense if they want to pick up the character.

http://youtu.be/E9IMOam-Sdg

Any insight would be appreciated, thanks :)
Hey, thanks a ton for the video Jtails, I was meaning to watch this much sooner. I liked it, I think you did a great job, hit the nail in the head with it.

There is one thing though about the F-air spike -> jab 1 -> jab 2 -> grab: the "jab jab to grab" only works on characters in the ground who have big frames to hit them while they're laying down. Like you showed there, it works with Bowser Jr, and it will also work with others like DK and ROB. However, I've played some matches where it outright misses the first jab against characters with small hurtboxes in the ground, and by small I mean they're too low to be hit by the first jab, like ZSS and Sheik.

EDIT: F-air "spike" -> jab 1 -> jab 2 -> grab doesn't work against Sheik and ZSS if they're lying down in the ground, but it does actually work on them (and the entire cast) as long as you jab them right when they bounce off the F-air "spike." As soon as they lie down on the ground though, the first jab will miss. Ma bad, I should've specified.

The F-air spike -> an F-tilt (angled down or normal, will lock them at low percents), U-smash (the initial hitbox is still near the ground) and D-smash also work against the entire cast, as long as they don't tech when they fall in the ground.

Thanks again for the video!
 
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Hidden Arwing

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Just curious, Anyone wanting to do a Fox Ditto Match with me? I'd like to see some of the moves you guys can pull off to better understand and better myself.
 

Maniak

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Just curious, Anyone wanting to do a Fox Ditto Match with me? I'd like to see some of the moves you guys can pull off to better understand and better myself.
I would be down to play some ditto but not till next week studying for finals this weekend.
 

Skarfelt

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I'm interested in seeing how good you guys think Fox is on each of the Neutral stages. I personally strike Lylat Cruise as a priority as it interrupts the flow of my combos and recovering on that stage is really hellish. Town and City and Battlefield are fine, you can score some pretty early kills with Uair on the platforms - there's not too much to disrupt play. On the other hand, FD is a mixed bag in that it forces approaches out of the opponent with lasers which is great for Fox - that said, characters that can approach effectively will have a field day here. I think Smashville is Fox's best stage of the Neutrals for giving Fox more options in his combos while not disrupting them at the same time.

Kind of a mundane topic, I know, but I'd like to see more discussion in these boards in general.
 

Lightning93

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Fox made it to A tier in Japan. Regardless of what that means for our competitive scene (which I doubt is a whole lot) I think the sentiment is nice :'). Sounds right around where I think he should be so far in this game.
 

RPK

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I forget where I saw it, but I know shield stun is equal to how much damage a move does. The more damage it does the more shield stun it has. So I guess that with recovery frames.
 

M@v

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Won our weekly this week with mostly fox. There may or may not be videos of my fox appearing in the video thread next week as well ^_^. I also may or may not use double jab cancels a lot so you can see some applications for them.
 

M@v

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Well I went all fox regardless of the matchup minus the one set I played Lucina because I wanted to...But the Characters I faced with Fox were Pit, Robin, Lucario.
 
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cynistar

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I'm new to Smash and had a question regarding some analysis Zero made about Fox. In the UltraChen video where he and D1 are talking about Tap Jump, he said that you have to have tap jump on in order to do Fox's Usmash out of shield.

Isn't it possible to do it by pressing a jump button + USmash? I seem to be able to do it just fine by having tap jump off. What am I missing?
 

jr22

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I'm new to Smash and had a question regarding some analysis Zero made about Fox. In the UltraChen video where he and D1 are talking about Tap Jump, he said that you have to have tap jump on in order to do Fox's Usmash out of shield.

Isn't it possible to do it by pressing a jump button + USmash? I seem to be able to do it just fine by having tap jump off. What am I missing?
Yes it is possible upsmash oos with the jump button. You're not missing anything.
 

Lightning93

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Yup you are 100% correct on that one. What they described was the most accessible way to perform it I suppose. Make sure you get the timing down though. OoS Upsmash is pretty crucial to learning most characters.
 

DavemanCozy

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Are there situational uses for the different angles on Fox's FTilt?
Aside from the angles you cover with it, each angle also has different knockback. Credit to Wusi for this info:

up-angled 53% (least knockback)
neutral 70% (most knockback)
down-angled 61%
 

Lightning93

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Are there situational uses for the different angles on Fox's FTilt?
I don't think it's official or anything but the down-angled F-tilt may be most useful during a tilt lock. I can't think of any use for up-angled F-tilt. I would prefer to use Up-tilt instead to get that kind of hitbox, but you may need to face the opposite direction of where you are aiming for.
Speaking of OoS Upsmash:
TFL you input Upsmash OoS and you grab them instead.
Maaaan your fingers be moving a little too fast buddy.
 
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DavemanCozy

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I can't think of any use for up-angled F-tilt. I would prefer to use Up-tilt instead to get that kind of hitbox, but you may need to face the opposite direction of where you are aiming for.
U-tilt's range is generally better, but F-tilt is quicker. It helps against certain SH approaches from opponents, serves well Out of Shield as well if you don't want to knock them too far (for following up and stuff). The > angled one is the most useful IMO.
 

McCrit

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I don't have Smash 4 yet, can someone make a tl;dr rundown on Fox strats for singles?
 

MunsterMash

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Hello all! This is my first post on the forum and since i'm maining Fox for the 1st time here in smash 4 I thought this would be a good thread to begin. Anyway, for some background on myself, I never got into competitive smash ever since the 3ds version and I think i've come a long way from where I was to where I am now. I don't have any footage right now but I will be getting a capture card tomorrow so in the weekend i'll upload some replays of my best matches. I've gotta say that the 1st time I saw some competitive melee/smash in general, I was blown away by the sheer depth there is in these games. Anyway, i'll ask for some feedback on how I play after I get some replays recorded, as well as post my NNID.
 

MunsterMash

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Uploading some gameplay now, i'll post some in about 45 min - 1 hour

EDIT: A little delayed gonna be around 30 more min.
 
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MunsterMash

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Pivot-cancel F-tilt -> F-tilt or -> Side Smash or -> Down Smash is like my favorite thing to do with Fox.

Nothing like a having a true combo into a potential kill move.
 

RPK

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NAKAT!! BABY!! YOU CAN STILL DO LAGLESS SH UAIR

Also another thing to note is the rage factor that doesnt seem to exist in practice mode so our kill percents will be different depending on our percent compared to theirs
 
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PinkPwnageFrenzy

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http://www.twitch.tv/bum1six3/v/3627932?t=8h54m30s
Set vs. Bum online, he beat me 2-1 with his Ike. First time I've really fought one so any tips in general or for the matchup are very welcome.

I think I could have:
-Replaced a few dash attacks with up smashes
-Used less dash attack in general
-Avoided trading
-Avoided going on tilt because I rolled in place into an Fsmash by accident game 3

Also is dair after getting a few utilts a bad habit, should I look for something else? I just feel it beats air dodges pretty well.
 

Lewt

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I always have problems against characters that have more range than Fox, like ZSS. Her ftilt for example keeps me away and if spaced correctly I cant punish it because of the lack of range that Fox has.
Maybe forward PP would fix that problem, but forward PP is not the easiest thing
 

Disaster Master

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Well I couldn't get perfect pivoting for the life of me. But I did notice if fox is running and you turn, if you attack before the turning animation finishes he will do a pivoted ftilt. It's way way way easier than trying to do perfect pivoting from a standstill. I bet it works with other characters with slow turning animations too. I'm sure someone pointed this out somewhere and I just missed it though.
 

ZeroJanitor

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I dunno if this is the right place to ask this but how would one edgeguard with Fox in this game?
 
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