Mission Complete!- Fox Discussion Thread

[~ Gheb ~]

I didn't notice any changes whatsoever.

 

[Lightning93]

I heard somewhere that they nerfed rolling? Is that true at all?

I did NOT know dash attack canceled grabs were still a thing :O! Even if it's not entirely too useful I'll definitely keep it on my radar.

 

[Kanzaki]

I think rolling thing was a rumor/placebo.

FYI got 4th in doubles (with Rob) this past Saturday :D

TOs messed up and didn't add me in singles bracket

 

[RPK]

Grab and pivot grab is still a massively nerfed option compared to all the other smash games. Grab ranges have been nerfed and grabs always lose trades with attacks instead of beating them or trading. They are no longer a good punishing option and in turn have gotten a lot easier to punish.

Imma have to disagree with you. While grabs have definitely been nerfed, grabs are still an amazing punish option, especially for Fox. Having them in the air is where we want them to be and can also be used to throw an opponent off stage which is also pretty bad for them. Also at low percents, D-throw combos into Fair which then combos into Uair. Also like I said before, Boost Pivot Grab is incredibly fast, and covers an insane amount of space fairly quickly and can be used to grab and throw someone off stage. So grabs are still amazing. Definitely not as broken, but its still an amazing punish option.

 

[M@v]

To bring final clarification to the patch thing; there's no significant balance changes directly affecting characters in the new patch.

Nintendo really needs to learn to write specific patch notes though.

 

[Woker!]

Fox´s fair now does 8 instead of 7, and dair does 11 instead of 10... yeah, fox got buffed!!

 

[Lightning93]

LOL WHAT. What are these seemingly ambiguous changes. Is there a thread listing all of them?

 

[Woker!]

my bad, fair still does 7

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Woker, you should get up some videos of your Fox imo. I wanna see it.

 

[Lightning93]

Hey! Bringing up that standing boost pivot wave grab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga7Z4ybC8-0

Looks legit.

 

[Mr.Lee]

So I found a tech chase method with fair, but the timing is a bit difficult. Falling fair will spike if the last hit is canceled. So having your opponent landing right next to sets up for good reads, starts combos for me. It's not easy though, but it's fun.

Has anyone already found out about this, or any other way to use it? ( guaranteed combos? )

 

[Lightning93]

So I found a tech chase method with fair, but the timing is a bit difficult. Falling fair will spike if the last hit is canceled. So having your opponent landing right next to sets up for good reads, starts combos for me. It's not easy though, but it's fun.

Has anyone already found out about this, or any other way to use it? ( guaranteed combos? )

Hey! Thanks for the input. Yes this has been discovered and the best option so far has been the use of the following:

1. Falling fair into the ground
2. Opponent misses tech, forcing a bounce animation on the ground
3. Ftilt>Walk-up>Ftilt>Walk-up>Ftilt (this is known as the ftilt lock and is conserved from previous smash generations)
4. Opponent is forced to get up, giving you a free reset or smash attack

Sounds like you had a good idea of what to do but be cautious using this move as a good opponent will be able to tech it unless you are really mixing up your game.

 

[Conviction]

at Higher percents I've Fair bounced into Uair

 

[Infamous_Prime]

You guys are right. However, ZeRo is able to beat M2K in PM and he's a really solid Smash 4 player too. I'm still gonna try to be the very best, like no one ever was. It's just intimidating to compete against those who have much more experience and play with top players often. Not that I'm going to give up, I'm still gonna give it my all and amass as much experience and skill as possible. Thanks for your guys's comments and perspective.

Lol have you seen how many people have beaten m2k in pm? its poluted melee. anyone cant beat anyone. Zero beats m2k cause pit is broken and zero put almost all of his time into pm this year, and m2k was juggling playing melee, way harder, and pm, which he didnt practice. So...thats not saying much. Zero is however just an overall super dedicated player, and im generally curious who will come out on top in smash 4, if they both dedicate all their time to it.

 

[Lightning93]

Anyone starting to notice Fox's weakenesses? I personally think he's a solid, well-designed character. But after playing some Yoshi's and watching some Diddy Kong players I'm beginning to notice a lack of a "gimmick-factor" for Fox. Some characters just got some dumb stuff going for them.

The Yoshi matchup really made me wish I had the ability to use SHTL again.

 

[M@v]

^I sure do see one. He has a lot harder time killing than he ever has before. Upsmash is a lot weaker now due to the larger blast zones and power nerf to it working together, and his reliable killers (upair and bair imo) are hard to land, although that may be moreso 3ds. I regularly have people living upwards of 150 to even 200 against me because I can't land the kill x_X

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Weak nair still combos into usmash. Fair spike combos into uair but is hard to hit. Fox has his kill setups that you need to get a feel for then you'll do fine at killing. He's on par with Diddy and Sheik as a character imo.

Anyone starting to notice Fox's weakenesses? I personally think he's a solid, well-designed character. But after playing some Yoshi's and watching some Diddy Kong players I'm beginning to notice a lack of a "gimmick-factor" for Fox. Some characters just got some dumb stuff going for them.

The Yoshi matchup really made me wish I had the ability to use SHTL again.

Dude, Yoshi is ****ing BROKEN in this game. I never use Fox against him because I can hardly touch him.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I have the most trouble against these as Fox right now: ,,,

I find he can go even with Diddy though. Grab those bananas and use them against him, you get a free upsmash.

As for the F-air spike: D-smash is also a good follow up if your opponent doesn't tech.

EDIT: I would add to that list above, but I actually have little experience with that matchup, as I rarely find myself playing it.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I never really used Fox since Smash 64, I used him a little bit in Melee, but in Brawl I only really used him in Subspace, and because I'm not really into the Starfox series, sorry guys, I'm just not, I just ended up not using him in Brawl, at all.

However now its a different game and I'm thinking it might be time for the return of the Fox, so I'm thinking I might try him out, after all I recently played as Yoshi, Diddy, Donkey Butt, and Pikachu and I hate those guys, but there is always opportunity for redemption.

 

[Infamous_Prime]

I think fox overall is still pretty solid. I know nakat came to the same conclusion, tho his ness is insane now, but i think a lot of characters are about the sams level. In the middle, with a few obvious people at the top and bottom.
I think the wiiu version tho will much better define what we can do with fox. That gcc <3

 

[NAKAT]

Fox is top 10 imo

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox is definitely top 10!

 

[Kanzaki]

Got 4th at a tourney today, and did a pretty hype combo:

http://gfycat.com/GleefulAggressiveChimpanzee

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Fox is really powerful in this game. He can punish basically anything he wants too and laser camping is still very powerful. His jab is amazing. I don't see him having a lot of trouble killing either. I might pick him up.

 

[Kanzaki]

There has been a new patch. I'm at work at the moment, but has anyone found a change?

 

[M@v]

I don't see any Fox things in the community patch notes yet...I'll mess around with fox on training mode tonight when I get time.

 

[RPK]

Also try out his custom moves as well as I think some character's custom moves changed as well

 

[~ Gheb ~]

His standard moveset seems exactly the same.

 

[Lightning93]

Yeah I was wondering if there had been any changes at all to his moveset. Looking forward to playing him in the WiiU version. Ain't gonna be able to buy a WiiU anytime soon but at least I got his Amiibo lol.

 

[Maniak]

One guy is claiming changes with FOX

Sooo no one replied at me, and i kept looking for Fox and DK buffs/nerfs and almost no one said anything. Now I'm home and updated my software and after passing hours todas playing as fox in training mode...

>That being said i'm testing him right now and he received a huge buff! His moves are comboing way better, His hitboxes are larger, he fells smoother to control (small improvement in horizontal air movement) and some animation changes. His FOXCOPTER IS BACK (not as floaty as its brawl counterpart but is back!) and his upsmash... received more KB. His blaster takes 1% pershot, but it shoots faster(more shoots than the sound effect says). I'm pretty sure he received a cool buff. ( I trained as him HOURS today, he's definitively better overall.

So we have

> Better range and combo in almost all his moves
> Foxcopter
> overall better KO power (I'm assuming it deserves to cutting off rage mechanic)
> His BACK AIR IS ALMOST INSANT NOW!

> I guess those buffs have to do with that rage mechanic, since fo is a light character this was a great advantage, now he can kill like when he only could at a risky percentage.

(I felt bad seeing how forgotten he got since his nerfs in this game. Jeez, he was top tier in melee and a good in all games, there's not even ONE fox guide for smash 4 done!)

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

I can't play right now, can anyone confirm if the fastfall F-air spike is still in?

 

[Virgule]

Alright so I spent a moment testing stuffs like damages, aerials lags, lasers (range, damage, speed) and so far i'm almost positive that nothing has been changed. Though i'm still suspicious about certain things like B-air (the hit seems to come faster), it's certain that no big nerfs occured to our beloved fox (maybe there exists less visible changes and i'm still looking it's just a pain to always switch the cartridge from 3DS to 3DS).

I can't play right now, can anyone confirm if the fastfall F-air spike is still in?

Pretty sure i did spike testing the F-air so i'd say yes i'ts still, in though i'd prefer someone to back me up on this.

On a side note i'm pleased to have finally suscribed here and hope to be useful !

 

[Maniak]

So is dash upsmash really out? This hurts fox if it is...

 

[DavemanCozy]

F-air spike is still in. I played a bunch of online matches this morning, and was doing it during those matches.

The B-air is real. Oh. My. GOSH. It's actually been sped up AND received a slight range buff. And it's still a powerful KO move. It's beautiful.

EDIT: my bad: no range buff. My eyes were playing tricks on me. However, it has been sped up; I'll work on taking a video, but I noticed it was sped up because the tip of Fox's foot in a SH B-air goes right over Rosalina's head now (usually causes a phantom hit now). Before, it would connect with a SH B-air done as soon as you short-hopped.

EDIT 2: Placebo effect: apparently it was possible to B-air over Rosa's head before in 1.0.3. NO CHANGES. I'll leave this post here, however, because the tidbit with the F-air spike is still true.

 

[Woker!]

Is it me, or does dthrow has less knockback?

 

[elmike]

F-air spike is still in. I played a bunch of online matches this morning, and was doing it during those matches.

are you 100% about it? Did you kill with it?

I have been testing for almost 20 minutes on training mode, and i havent been able to kill with it when the enemy is off stage.
Either my timing just became trash from last night xD, or the input is different, or it is not in the game anymore (at least not exactly the way it was).

If you are positive sure you can actually kill with it, can you please explain me the exact moment and how to do it? The way i did it before is not working anymore for me...

 

[Virgule]

The B-air is real. Oh. My. GOSH. It's actually been sped up AND received a slight range buff. And it's still a powerful KO move. It's beautiful.

Glad to see i'm not imagining things it does come faster (didn't notice anything on the range), have you got some solid proof ? I'ts very hard to see a difference just by watching records while playing to compare, it's really the feeling when playing that is different not sure how to explain.

Also some other moves might be slightly changed speedwise (i'm thinking about the F-air and mostly th U-air), like said in a quote earlier fox feels somewhat smoother overall, but i'm afraid it's just me having false hope.

Is it me, or does dthrow has less knockback?

i checked the throws and they all were exactly the same than before to me, again my setup is not perfect and i might miss something.

 

[Maniak]

So we really can't dash forward upsmash

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

So we really can't dash forward upsmash

Hopefully dash U-smashes work how they always have with a c-stick.

 

[Virgule]

So we really can't dash forward upsmash

DACUS is gone BUT you can still dash forward upsmash. The trick is that it's harder to perform : you have to press jump button while doing the Upsmash or else it does a dash attack (press X+A simultaneously for example). It appears you "slide" a bit less though.