Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Admiral Pit]

I'm honestly grateful. It's not always fun when your favorite potential newcomer is constantly in the spotlight for both supporters and detractors to go at. It's nice to have a breath of fresh air with someone like Palutena who simply doesn't spread any kind of hate.

You have a point. *patpat* I'm just grateful there's actually a good time to have Palutena talk happen a bit out there more often for a change. Kid Icarus is finally having some spotlight instead of the common Mario and Zelda franchises. Let's just hope a Palutena reveal, along with more info on Palutena's Temple, come soon.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I'm honestly grateful. It's not always fun when your favorite potential newcomer is constantly in the spotlight for both supporters and detractors to go at. It's nice to have a breath of fresh air with someone like Palutena who simply doesn't spread any kind of hate.

Palteny is to big guz

 

[FlareHabanero]

Palteny is to big guz

Oh just because she ate those phoenix omelettes that ONE TIME!

 

[Morbi]

Anyways, I read quite a few posts asserting that the picture of the day doesn't have any correlation with Palutena's chances. While this is technically true based on the notion that she is either in Smash or not, a reveal does little to change objective fact. However, you are delusional if you don't see why the picture attenuates evidence in her favor. It doesn't necessarily mean the two (statue and playable character) cannot co-exist, but if this picture didn't slightly change your opinion, your perspective isn't based on rational thought, it is more dependent on some obscure form of belief. Either that, or you are blatantly disregarding evidence. It is one thing to state that this new fact doesn't have a significant bearing on her chances, and another to completely dismiss the idea. That is fallacious.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I actually feel sad for those who think the statue disconfirms her completely.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Anyways, I read quite a few posts asserting that the picture of the day doesn't have any correlation with Palutena's chances. While this is technically true based on the notion that she is either in Smash or not, a reveal does little to change objective fact. However, you are delusional if you don't see why the picture attenuates evidence in her favor. It doesn't necessarily mean the two (statue and playable character) cannot co-exist, but if this picture didn't slightly change your opinion, your perspective isn't based on rational thought, it is more dependent on some obscure form of belief. Either that, or you are blatantly disregarding evidence. It is one thing to state that this new fact doesn't have a significant bearing on her chances, and another to completely dismiss the idea. That is fallacious.

"If you don't agree with my point of view, you're delusional".

In my opinion this only increases her chances.

 

[Morbi]

"If you don't agree with my point of view, you're delusional".

In my opinion this only increases her chances.

Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

 

[AncientTobacco]

Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

Yes.

Now, do you actually have some sort of argument as to why this would negatively affect her chances?

 

[DraginHikari]

I honestly hold a pretty neutral stance in regards today's update, mostly becuase I guess I just don't particularly view the statue as being very significant one way or the other. I just don't particular see how it helps or hurts Palutena's chances.

 

[Morbi]

Yes.

Now, do you actually have some sort of argument as to why this would negatively affect her chances?

If you aren't competent enough to read the posts prior to this discussion (not to be crass, but you should be utterly aware of the ramifications) or realize that one cannot watch over a stage and fight in it at the very same time, I have nothing further to assert. However, I would like to clarify, never did I insinuate that Palutena's chances were decreased. I stated that our perceived rationale should have shifted as we now have evidence to refute her inclusion. It doesn't necessarily matter if that support is definitive.

Confirmation bias is enabling speculators to blatantly disregard that she has something that opposes the notion of her inclusion. Again, the substance is irrelevant. We are speaking objectively.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I actually feel sad for those who think the statue disconfirms her completely.

People being rash, nothing new.

Ironically when something is actually shown in broad daylight, people deny that.

 

[Admiral Pit]

People being rash, nothing new.

Ironically when something is actually shown in broad daylight, people deny that.

Not to worry. Once she's revealed, party time for us. <3

 

[AncientTobacco]

If you aren't competent enough to read the posts prior to this discussion (not to be crass, but you should be utterly aware of the ramifications) or realize that one cannot watch over a stage and fight in it at the very same time, I have nothing further to assert.

I have in fact read them and believe the "watch over" was referring to the statue, not Palutena herself.

However, I would like to clarify, never did I insinuate that Palutena's chances were decreased. I stated that our perceived rationale should have shifted as we now have evidence to refute her inclusion. It doesn't necessarily matter if that support is definitive.

Really? That's not the impression I got from this:

However, you are delusional if you don't see why the picture attenuates evidence in her favor.

But if you say that wasn't your intention, then that's that I guess.

Confirmation bias is enabling speculators to blatantly disregard that she has something that opposes the notion of her inclusion. Again, the substance is irrelevant. We are speaking objectively.

I'm not saying that it cannot been seen as "something that opposes the notion of her inclusion" but personally I don't see it that way, as I explained above. Objectively it could go either way.

I guess I just misunderstood and thought you were claiming that people are delusional is they don't think the pic decreases her chances.

 

[ToothiestAura]

...or realize that one cannot watch over a stage and fight in it at the very same time, I have nothing further to assert. However, I would like to clarify, never did I insinuate that Palutena's chances were decreased.

You do know it is common practice to say a statue/idol is watch over you, right? Sakurai was without a doubt referring to the statue watching over the battle. So, she could (literally) be in the battle and watching over it as a statue.

Connfirmation bias is enabling speculators to blatantly disregard that she has something that opposes the notion of her inclusion. Again, the substance is irrelevant. We are speaking objectively.

As you stated before, this picture has no actual ramifications on the status of her playability. No reason to say more than that - you just come off as a ****. By the way, he said in his opinion he believes it only helps her. You know damn well opinions don't have to be guided by rational thought.

 

[Morbi]

I have in fact read them and believe the "watch over" was referring to the statue, not Palutena herself. Really? That's not the impression I got from this: But if you say that wasn't your intention, then that's that I guess.
I'm not saying that it cannot been seen as "something that opposes the notion of her inclusion" but personally I don't see it that way, as I explained above. Objectively it could go either way.

I guess I just misunderstood and thought you were claiming that people are delusional is they don't think the pic decreases her chances.

The statue is implied to be Palutena, this can be inferred by the notion that... it is Palutena's statue. If you wish to be extremely literal, the basis for your perspective, one cannot allude to a statue using gender-indicators.

Trust me, it wasn't. I had to re-type it a few times to not sound overly pretentious.

It is something that opposes her inclusion, as I stated a plethora of times, it has nothing to do with the magnitude. It is evidence against her, blatantly disregarding that evidence is a key aspect of confirmation bias.

Objectively, she has something that attenuates her inclusion. It doesn't matter if it is irrelevant in the end, speculators could legitamtely cite this as a reason that she might not be included. Objectively. You are probably thinking about subjectively, where you can dismiss the picture based on an assumption.

 

[AncientTobacco]

The statue is implied to be Palutena, this can be inferred by the notion that... it is Palutena's statue. If you wish to be extremely literal, the basis for your perspective, one cannot allude to a statue using gender-indicators.

I'd like to point out that Palutena fought Pit in front of that very same statue in Uprising.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Objectively, she has something that attenuates her inclusion. It doesn't matter if it is irrelevant in the end, speculators could legitamtely cite this as a reason that she might not be included. Objectively. You are probably thinking about subjectively, where you can dismiss the picture based on an assumption.

I agree this doesn't help her chances, but there could be a lot more going on here. Sakurai is the type of troll to use a this statue as a means to dispel the "leak," regardless of it's accuracy.

I'd like to point out that Palutena fought Pit in front of that very same statue in Uprising.

In that case, Sakurai could be ****ing with those of use who haven't played Kid Icarus: Uprising. We would think this means she is deconfirmed, while those who played the game would think she's in even more.

Regardless, Sakurai is ****ing with us.

 

[Xigger]

realize that one cannot watch over a stage and fight in it at the very same time,

You do know it is common practice to say a statue/idol is watch over you, right?

This. Just sums up everything. As far as facts go.

I didn't think people would make TOO big of a fuss over a statue being next to the model. Not after Toon Link 1 in a stage and Toon Link 2 as a character. Still, have at it guys. Opinions are nice.

 

[Morbi]

This wasn't directed at anyone in particular, everyone who supports Palutena based on belief is completely exempt from my statements. This is pertaining to those who believe that they are speculating based on facts and logical reasoning.

To further elaborate on what I mean by subjective and objective, I will make this much more concise in the context relevant to our discussion.

Subjective: "I personally find that this 'evidence' is not satisfactory, the statute could easily be alluding to the notion that idols are often found over-looking certain areas, in this context, Sakurai is probably not making a reference to the character."

Notice the aspect of opinion in the statement, the phrase "I personally," is the most significant part as this indicates you are not objectively stating that this reveal has nothing to do with chances of the character.

Objectively, the picture could be used as evidence, by a reasonable person, to assert their opinion. Thus, blatantly disregarding the notion that the picture is evidence is an aspect of confirmation bias. Hence, if you believe that you are predicting characters based on rational thought, this picture should have attenuated your perception of her chances.

The evidence can become negligible if you thoroughly refute it in the proper context and it doesn't have to influence your decision making process. However, you cannot impose your ideals on others by stating that it isn't support that opposes her inclusion. See what I mean?

That is literally all I am getting at.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

You go, Morbid. You're always so down to earth and to the point with your debating skills. Also honest about what you're biased on, and even then you make it clear when that's so.

 

[Rasumii]

She needs her Statue to be her Alternate Costume.

 

[Raetah]

Palutena diconfirmed as playable character for being a statue.

 

[ChikoLad]

It doesn't matter if it is irrelevant in the end, speculators could legitamtely cite this as a reason that she might not be included. Objectively.

...And how can today's pic of the day objectively de-confirm Palutena from any angle?

Because if we look at objective facts:

R.O.B appeared as a statue on the Port Town Aero Dive stage in Brawl, yet still made it into the playable roster, as already mentioned. To expand on this fact, the reason why he appeared as a statue on that stage in the first place is because on the original Port Town Aero Dive track in F-Zero GX, that same R.O.B statue is in the same spot. Because the entire Brawl stage is a recreation of the original track.

While I can't speak for this myself, Kid Icarus players can recognise that location, or can list off locations in the Kid Icarus universe that contain statues of Palutena. So based on the facts of the R.O.B statue in Brawl, and using the same logic, we can ascertain that Palutena's statue would be included on this stage regardless of whether or not she is playable, for the sole purpose of universe authenticity.

And as last Friday's picture showed us, the development team is perfectly willing to make a character be a stage NPC and playable in the same game, even if it requires modelling and animating a stand-in. While the Spirit Tracks Link isn't technically the same character as playable Toon Link, who is the Wind Waker incarnation, it would confuse players if they aren't clued in on the Zelda franchise, because they look so similar. However, the appearance of an inanimate statue would not confuse players, because it's just that. So they would not need to make a new model to replace the Palutena statue. And again, based on the R.O.B statue's existance in Brawl, there is objectively no reason for us to believe a character can't be featured in the background while also being playable.

This screenshot cannot be used as an objective piece of evidence towards her being playable OR non-playable. It is merely a screenshot that confirms that we have a Kid Icarus stage on the Wii U version, and said stage just so happens to have a statue of Palutena. The statue was most likely put there to give people an idea of where this place actually is in the Kid Icarus universe.

Now, personally, I think Sakurai is teasing us, because releasing this shot a week after those leaked images is a very convenient coincidence. However, that's not objective evidence in favour of her playable likelihood either. It's just a bit funny.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

So if now, we see the Blue Falcon, we can disconfirm Captain Falcon, despite the fact in Melee and Brawl, the blue Falcon appears yet Falcon is playable?

Disconfirming a character because of an object is just weird.

Or maybe Alfonzo drove the Blue Falcon the whole time

 

[FalKoopa]

Guys, soon...

 

[The Nerd]

At the end of the day this picture changes nothing; if Kid Icarus didn't that stage it could still get Palutena and Kid Icarus could get that stage without Palutena being playable. It also could get both, as Port Town from Brawl and Big Blue from Melee & Brawl have shown. There is no evidence to conclude one is based on the other; I cannot see how having this stage could change anyone's opinion.

Is Sakurai trolling us because he knows of the supposed leak and it's popularity? Yes, but that doesn't determine whether or not she's real. His mind is essentially unguessable, there is no reason to believe this has any meaning and furthermore no reason to believe that meaning is decipherable to us as well. Arguing for or against her inclusion based off the stage is a waste of time. Which I suppose makes it a halfway decent candidate for discussion here.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Jeez. Took me over an hour to get home from school because of the weather. Screw you Buffalo Winter. Screw. You.

Anyway...this picture means nothing in terms of confirmation/disconfirmations. The way I see it, the wording could allude to a comparison to how the Greeks honored Zeus or whoever with a statue or shrine. They could easily claim that "Zeus is watching over the Olympic Games", with a giant Statue of Zeus heading off the Coliseum, because it's figurative and symbolic. That sentence doesn't actually have to mean that Zeus is actually watching over the battle or sport. It's a symbol of the God/Goddess, just as Palutena is here.

Not to mention, it's a damn statue. If Palutena had a throne in this picture, and was legitimately watching the fight, even THEN she wouldn't be disconfirmed because she could be Playable, and not be sitting in her throne when she battles.

I'm sorry @ Morbi , it doesn't discount her at all.

 

[FalKoopa]

I don't think the statue alters her chances much. She was a likely candidate before the stage was revealed, and she is now as well.

All I see is that Sakurai is possibly trying to set us up for her reveal sometime in next few weeks.

 

[Morbi]

Jeez. Took me over an hour to get home from school because of the weather. Screw you Buffalo Winter. Screw. You.

Anyway...this picture means nothing in terms of confirmation/disconfirmations. The way I see it, the wording could allude to a comparison to how the Greeks honored Zeus or whoever with a statue or shrine. They could easily claim that "Zeus is watching over the Olympic Games", with a giant Statue of Zeus heading off the Coliseum, because it's figurative and symbolic. That sentence doesn't actually have to mean that Zeus is actually watching over the battle or sport. It's a symbol of the God/Goddess, just as Palutena is here.

Not to mention, it's a damn statue. If Palutena had a throne in this picture, and was legitimately watching the fight, even THEN she wouldn't be disconfirmed because she could be Playable, and not be sitting in her throne when she battles.

I'm sorry @ Morbi , it doesn't discount her at all.

I never insinuated that it was enough to completely and utterly convince someone that she was not playable. I stated that it was evidence against her inclusion, it certainly doesn't aid her chances, the piece of evidence is relevant and it pertains to her character, hence it is not stagnant (so it is applicable to the debate, obviously, or we would not be having this discussion). Therefore it attenuates her chances, ever so slightly, of course. If you fail to see that, more power to you, just don't be surprised that other people actually see how this could implicate a negative correlation.

@ ChikoLad
This applies to your post as well. It doesn't objectively de-confirm her. It is one piece of evidence that does oppose the notion of her inclusion. If you blatantly disregard this evidence, you are conforming to confirmation bias by definition. That is all I was getting at.

Edit- I read your post in its entirety, and I see the angle you are coming from. However, as stated prior, this directly pertains to the character Palutena and thus it has a correlation with her chances. You can subjectively assert that this evidence is already negligible, but you cannot assert that it has NOTHING to do with her (perceived) chances.

I don't think the statue alters her chances much. She was a likely candidate before the stage was revealed, and she is now as well.

All I see is that Sakurai is possibly trying to set us up for her reveal sometime in next few weeks.

This.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I pretty much agree with FalKoopa. I think he's continually adding hype to her reveal. Hopefully that comes up soon. I can't wait to see her in HD.

 

[ChikoLad]

Those thighs would look mighty fine in high definition, mmmmhmmmmm. :V

 

[Morbi]

I am not that interested in seeing her in HD, operating under the assumption that the leak was real, I have already seen what was necessary to induce hype. However, I am entirely interested in seeing her trailer and move-set. That is what I am personally looking forward to.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I am not that interested in seeing her in HD, operating under the assumption that the leak was real, I have already seen what was necessary to induce hype. However, I am entirely interested in seeing her trailer and move-set. That is what I am personally looking forward to.

If that "leak" had only shown an attack, not only would it cause more hype, I might actually believe it.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Those thighs would look mighty fine in high definition, mmmmhmmmmm. :V

Now imagine those Palutena doing Peach's B-throw on Pit with those amazing thighs (and hips). *insert blushing here*

 

[BluePikmin11]

Palutena should throw Centurions as a side special.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Now imagine those Palutena doing Peach's B-throw on Pit with those amazing thighs (and hips). *insert blushing here*

There's always more for thigh/hip-moves in this game.

Also I think I remember Palutena being able to unleash the rapid kick in Uprising ( akin to Lightning Kicks from Chun-Li?)

 

[Xhampi]

Now imagine those Palutena doing Peach's B-throw on Pit with those amazing thighs (and hips). *insert blushing here*

As long that it's not Diddy Kong Side-B

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Now imagine those Palutena doing Peach's B-throw on Pit with those amazing thighs (and hips). *insert blushing here*

watch her throws be like this:

especially at the 40 sec mark

 

[Admiral Pit]

There's always more for thigh/hip-moves in this game.

Also I think I remember Palutena being able to unleash the rapid kick in Uprising ( akin to Lightning Kicks from Chun-Li?)

Honestly, the hip thing was coming (yay for shipping Pit+Palutena).
I haven't seen her using kicking attacks yet, but she should have a kicking move.

As long that it's not Diddy Kong Side-B

As if Pit would still be able to stand up if she did that. Poor Pit would lose balance and fall... and blush again.

watch her throws be like this:

especially at the 40 sec mark

It ain't as effective if she doesn't wink at Pit while doing it like Peach does. Gotta get that Pit blushing for more damage.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I honestly don't know why people are speculating about this, it's just a statue of the goddess, not Palutena herself. We finally are having more KI themed POTD, really loving this, I wonder if it's because of the leak but he seems to be playing with us.

As for the stage itself, really beutiful indeed, I was reading a few pages back, guys, remember this isn't supposed to be Destroyed Skyworld, that's why it's way more colourful (though I agree SSB4 might have helped) It's supposed to be the heavenly regular Skyworld, everything should be more cheerful and have that angelical feel to it.