Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[TumblrFamous]

What if the Palutena's line was, "Alright which one of you leaked me on 4chan?"

I think if that happened, Sakurai will be my favorite person ever.

 

[Glaciacott]

For a reveal I'm personally hoping for the Main Theme song:

My question is, which game will Sakurai want to make us think it is before Palutena appears?


And sorry to be that person, but I have to address this:

Wrong. Everything is wrong until proven right. This is a basic tenet of logical/scientific thought (something you are attempting to use with Occam's Razor)..

Uh, not what I was doing dude. You're talking of completely different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
You're thinking I'm using Occam's Razor to prove the leak right, and that's not what I was doing.
You don't use a logic shortcut/heuristic to prove something wrong or right.
Like if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I can logically leans towards the reality that, damn, I think it's a duck. Even if it hasn't been scientifically proven ... I'm just siding with chance and logic.
That's why I was using it to explain my logical decision to believe the probability of it being correct based on the given data and the fact we need to make more assumptions in order to believe it to be fake.
It can still be real or fake, I'm not saying it's either. I'm just saying I logically decide to side with the belief it is real based on the data given.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

For a reveal I'm personally hoping for the Main Theme song:

My question is, which game will Sakurai want to make us think it is before Palutena appears?

I think a Zelda/Fire Emblem/Kid Icarus "crossover" for a reveal of characters from this series can be cool.

 

[Knight Dude]

So would most of you guys want her to take Pit's old Final Smash and have Palutena use a new one? That seems like it would be for the best.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The Glam Blaster seems a bit too OP, how bout somewhat a defensive FS where mirrors guard Palutena from everywhere, while she is able to shoot a multi hitting lightbeam.

 

[TumblrFamous]

My question is, which game will Sakurai want to make us think it is before Palutena appears?

Zelda Wii U. It will start with Link riding Epona to Hyrule Castle where Zelda awaits. However, after they have their interactions, we see Marth come into the picture and Pit descends to the three of them. Naturally, they all fight. You know, strangers and everything are intimidating. Just when they're about to fight, we see Pit get a "call" from Lady Palutena:

"Pit, I need to ask you a question."

"Now's not the time, Lady Palutena!"

"Well, I got this invitation to this fighting game. Super Bash Sisters."

"You mean Super Smash Bros.?"

"I don't think it was that."

"It's definitely that."

After Pit finishes, he is immediately blasted with light from behind. He falls over, revealing Palutena behind him. She says something comical, and cue the gameplay footage.

I based it off of their little conversation in Uprising.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

The Glam Blaster seems a bit too OP, how bout somewhat a defensive FS where mirrors guard Palutena from everywhere, while she is able to shoot a multi hitting lightbeam.

FS' are supposed to be OP, I mean have you seen sanic's?

The glam blaster would be a perfect FS for palutena.

 

[Starbound]

What if Palutena said Pit's famous line: "Sorry to keep you waiting!" when she was revealed?
I would like that a lot.
I've been thinking about her reveal trailer, obviously, as Palutena has always been a favorite of mine, I've always considered her one of the most likely, and this leak assures me even further that Palutena will make it. I just know it.

I wouldn't get to excited about her talking (even though Ali Hillis has the best voice in the world), because we haven't heard any characters talk yet. Even Wii Fit Trainer's lines were straight from the Wii Fit games.

I think her reveal trailer will involve Pit fighting Bowser (or whatever other villains are confirmed by then). Pit gets beat up hard, and Palutena saves his butt. Maybe incorporate Rosalina in there as well.

 

[Starcutter]

I wouldn't get to excited about her talking (even though Ali Hillis has the best voice in the world), because we haven't heard any characters talk yet. Even Wii Fit Trainer's lines were straight from the Wii Fit games.

Why not take lines from KI then? Logical

 

[FlareHabanero]

Super Bash Sisters needs to be acknowledged, and that alone would be great.

 

[Raetah]

EDIT: Might I ask, you're saying there are dozens of more "deserving" characters. Really? Besides Mewtwo, Little Mac, Ridley, and K. Rool, it's pretty much Palutena. These five are the elite for a reason.

Ok, because you started with Mewtwo:
-Pokemon: a franchise of literally hundreds of possibilities. Of course we are never going to have all that massive quantity of playable characters of Pokemon, sbb is suposed to be an all-star game of Nintendo, not a Pokemon game. However this dont changes the fact that between 4 or 5 dozens of Pokemon, to say a fair number, are clearly above Palutena for what they are (examples can include Pokemon starters and the evolutions of those, Legendary Pokemon and other popular Pokemons). Pokemon is the 2nd most important series of Nintendo and not only that, is the 2nd best selling videogame franchise outclassed exclusively by Mario, but they also have triumphed in other media in where Mario failed, they have a TV serie (a successful one), Manga, Card games, an Amusement Park, and the list continues in an endless list of products.
The thing is, we can find a considerable number of persons that would recognize easily some Pokemons even if they never played a Pokemon game. In other hand it is most likely that Palutena could be only recognize by persons that are fans of videogames, gamers, more specifically Nintendo-Gamers, and probably only a part of Nintendo-Gamers (probably a high part). If we show a picture of Palutena to random people, most of them are not going to see Palutena, they are going to see a Woman With Green Hair. They maybe even confound her with a generic greek goddess.

*This also could be applied to Mario. However im the first one that thinks that, if they want to have 17 Mario characters is fine, but first they had to add atleast one character from all the other minor franchises (and also in some cases it wouldnt be happy with just one character). Considering the size of Kid Icarus, one character sounds perfectly to the current number of big franchises characters,

-Donkey Kong or Wario characters, despite i said in this forum that they could be considered part of the same universe of Mario, DK-Mario universe (which is true), they have great unique characters (unlike Yoshi), In this list i think that Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are the one who have more advantage.

-Retro Characters: Little Mac being the best example of this, but not the only one. Sakurai did a great job reviving Kid Icarus, it sounds fair if Sakurai uses his necromantic powers to revive another forgotten character instead of adding Palutena.

-F-Zero, because if we dont count Ganondorf being a clone (heheh), Captain Falcon is so lonely (T_T).

-Many Fire Emblem characters, as we are going to have probably 2-3 in this game.

-Pikmin that is unlikely going to have a 2nd character, but seems to better choice than Kid Icarus.

-Metroid, wich im sure that most of the persons think that it deserves more than just two forms of Samus, Ridley clearly being the winner in the forum.

-Animal Crossing, considering the impact of this series, they could have 2 reps in the game.

-Miis, if Wii Fit Trainer cans, why not Miis.

-Nintendogs, yeah i consider the Labrador Retriever puppy over Palutena, thought this is unlikely going to happen in this century.

-Nintendo Wars. Near to the level of Kid Icarus. "the boom" of Kid Icarus that makes it look superior to other smaller franchises, is mostly caused by ssbb in where Pit is a main character in plot and he is revealed in ssb4 like a main character another time.

-Other characters from minor series, Starfy, Saki of Sin and Punishment, Custom Robo. While they are small thats perhaps the boost they need to evolve.

-Shulk, that seems to be a really popular character, his appearance in ssb would consolidate him as an iconic Nintendo character.

-3rd party characters that had a considerable impact in Nintendo systems, Professor Layton being one of my favorites.

-Isaac, because is possibly what Golden Sun fans we need in this hard moment, but honestly i cant blame Sakurai or the other developers of SBB4 if at the end is not included, it is all the fault of Camelot being extremely unconstant. If the DS game was nearly as good as the GBA i would confident about chances of him being playable, but in this state...

-There are many characters of other franchises like Zelda, Kirby, Star Fox, that are actually way more iconic or popular than Palutena, but i just dont support them because those franchises are already well-represented.

-There could be more characters, but i cant remember now.

Remember that all this is just an opinion of my personal criteria (something that was probably better to said before), that is based on: Popularity of the Character, number of games, the state of the series, sales and the impact in the culture caused franchise-character. While Palutena have enough popularity, the number of games and sales and the low impact dont justifies a 2nd character.

You must thank god, because Sakurai and the other developers dont seem to use a similar criteria, and she have high chances of being playable.

Also know that i dont hate Palutena, i just would add if i could 10-15 characters before she.

And I will also be the devil's advocate with Pac-Man - he doesn't deserve it. I'm sorry, I know Pac-Man is a revolutionary game, but beyond that, not many people actually care about the franchise. He's not on the same caliber as Sonic or Mega Man, or even Snake. I'd sooner expect Rayman. Pac-Man just didn't stick when the 3D era came.

You forgot to mention that he was born out of a Nintendo system and even more, that it was always a game of multiple platforms and for that reason he dont deserve to be in SSB.

I actually want to admit that some users of this thread have a great sense of humour. it was fun.

When i said that i see something weird in the height of the characters, i wasnt talking of a comparation between Mario and Palutena, i was talking about the height they seem to have compared to the rocks of the Background, something seems wrong there. i cannot explain better.

 

[loganhogan]

Remember that all this is just an opinion of my personal criteria (something that was probably better to said before), that is based on: Popularity of the Character, number of games, the state of the series, sales and the impact in the culture caused franchise-character. While Palutena have enough popularity, the number of games and sales and the low impact dont justifies a 2nd character.

One thing you're missing is Palutena wouldn't be the only left out based on your priority system. Kiss all the secondary characters from series outside of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon goodbye because they don't dominate in quantity of sales and games as much as these series. Don't count on Lucas, Ike, Wolf, Olimar ever appearing in Brawl either. Olimar had two games why would he ever appear over a Nintendog? Nintendog's series outsold and outnumbered the Pikmin series not to mention Lucas. Ike is a good example too his low impact based on sales, amongst lowest in the series, and game appearances don't justify him either.

 

[Forcerounds]

So would most of you guys want her to take Pit's old Final Smash and have Palutena use a new one? That seems like it would be for the best.

I think Pit should get a new Final Smash, perhaps using the Three Sacred Treasures or The Great Sacred Treasure. Then Palutena can get an updated version of Pit's Brawl Final Smash where she summons Centurions, Centurion Knights, Centurion Strongarms, and a Juggernaut.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Remember that all this is just an opinion of my personal criteria (something that was probably better to said before), that is based on: Popularity of the Character, number of games, the state of the series, sales and the impact in the culture caused franchise-character. While Palutena have enough popularity, the number of games and sales and the low impact dont justifies a 2nd character.

I think where your misunderstanding comes from is that you've forgotten that Super Smash Bros. is a video game and not a gallery.

The Ice Climbers and, as loganhogan mentioned, Ike are Smash fighters not because of cultural relevance, but for gameplay. The ICs are an absurdly unique character(s?) with an unprecedented gameplay mechanic, and if I recall correctly, Ike was (in part) included as a means of implementing a "heavy sword" character.

Basically, Palutena deserves inclusion for some totally awesome light-beams, not for some nebulous concept of relevance.

 

[Katakiri]

Zelda Wii U. It will start with Link riding Epona to Hyrule Castle where Zelda awaits. However, after they have their interactions, we see Marth come into the picture and Pit descends to the three of them. Naturally, they all fight. You know, strangers and everything are intimidating. Just when they're about to fight, we see Pit get a "call" from Lady Palutena:

"Pit, I need to ask you a question."

"Now's not the time, Lady Palutena!"

"Well, I got this invitation to this fighting game. Super Bash Sisters."

"You mean Super Smash Bros.?"

"I don't think it was that."

"It's definitely that."

After Pit finishes, he is immediately blasted with light from behind. He falls over, revealing Palutena behind him. She says something comical, and cue the gameplay footage.

I based it off of their little conversation in Uprising.

As if there would be any spoken dialog in the character reveal trailers. It's a damn shame but I don't see it happening since they'd have to separately animate the voice-overs for each language.

Also any scene where DK's fur is not present is also not happening. Sakurai loves that ****.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Uh, not what I was doing dude. You're talking of completely different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
You're thinking I'm using Occam's Razor to prove the leak right, and that's not what I was doing.
You don't use a logic shortcut/heuristic to prove something wrong or right.

My bad, I wasn't being clear. I meant occam's razor points towards it being fake.

 

[loganhogan]

I'm worried that Alfonzo has a black outline.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm worried that Alfonzo has a black outline.

Looking at it, the only part that really looks like a potential black outline is the legs, and I honestly think that has more to do with the way he's positioned against the background.

Conductor Link doesn't have one, nor do any other even RECENTLY shown stage elements, so why should Alfonzo?

 

[loganhogan]

Looking at it, the only part that really looks like a potential black outline is the legs, and I honestly think that has more to do with the way he's positioned against the background.

Conductor Link doesn't have one, nor do any other even RECENTLY shown stage elements, so why should Alfonzo?

Thank you Banjodorf that's reassuring Embarrass. I just zoomed in the picture is it shading on his shoulders from the roof?

 

[Banjodorf]

Thank you Banjodorf that's reassuring Embarrass. I just zoomed in the picture is it shading on his shoulders from the roof?

Yeah. The bits on the shoulders and the backs of his legs seem to be light affected by the roof. It is midday after all.

I'm pretty confident that's what it is, just because a stage element having the same outlines of the characters would completely remove their entire purpose. That, and that's some nice shading effect!

 

[ChikoLad]

even though Ali Hillis has the best voice in the world

WAIT, WHAT?
Palutena is voiced by her? Sweet, Palutena is Lightning! :D
(I actually really like the FFXIII series, in case it wasn't obvious yet).
Now Palutena MUST be included! :V

-----

Also, regarding the whole relevance debate up above, you guys do realise that KI:U broke the 1 million sales mark, right? It was considered a success. What people seem to forget is that a game's success isn't measured by selling ten million copies or whatever. Whether or not a game is successful is entirely down to it's sales figures IN RELATION to the budget of the game. And Nintendo makes a profit on their games much easier than most companies, as they are excellent at putting out amazing games without spending millions of dollars on making sure you can see the dirt in Lara Croft's finger nails (and Nintendo's games look as lovely as any Hollywood budget game, due to their great sense of art direction). KH:U is a handheld game, so it's budget definitely wasn't that high. Heck, Nintendo said that to justify making a Fire Emblem game on the Wii U, it would need to pass the 750,000 sales mark. So what makes people think a HANDHELD action game would need millions of sales to break even, when a console strategy game with lots of stuff on screen would only need 750,000 to be successful?

With that in mind, Palutena makes perfect sense to be included if we are throwing sales figures into this. However, I don't see how that's ever been relevant. Last time I checked, F-Zero hasn't made a sale since the Gamecube era, so by that logic, Captain Falcon should of been given the boot in Brawl!

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah. The bits on the shoulders and the backs of his legs seem to be light affected by the roof. It is midday after all.

I'm pretty confident that's what it is, just because a stage element having the same outlines of the characters would completely remove their entire purpose. That, and that's some nice shading effect!

Yes, if we zoom the picture, it's possible to tell it's only some shading.
Spirit Tracks' Link don't have it anyway, why Alfonzo would have some suddenly anyway except the fact the game is in devellopement?

 

[Banjodorf]

Yes, if we zoom the picture, it's possible to tell it's only some shading.
Spirit Tracks' Link don't have it anyway, why Alfonzo would have some suddenly anyway except the fact the game is in devellopement?

Pretty sure it's just shading from the stage yeah. It might actually have to do with the size difference between Conductor Link and Alfonzo.

If it IS an outline somehow, it doesn't make any sense, because Viridi (just one day less recent than Alfonzo and also a stage element) doesn't have one.

Pretty sure we can rest easy on this one, for Palutena's sake, but goddess DAMN it, Sakurai...

 

[ChikoLad]

Another thing worth noting regarding outlines:

 

[Angelglory]

Besides Mewtwo, Little Mac, Ridley, and K. Rool, it's pretty much Palutena. These five are the elite for a reason.

I see a mention of the 'Elite 4 + the Champion', so I may as well throw this out here. It's nothing spectacular, but hey...

 

[Karafuru]

With the relevancy topic, PIkmin and Kid Icarus have the same amount of games, but Kid Icarus has a more variety of characters to use. If we were to use another captain, it would most likely feel a lot like Olimar. And I doubt that a second character from a new series introduced (Animal Crossing) would have priority over other characters. The only way I see a second AC character is if it were a last minute clone added in.

 

[Starcutter]

LOL @ Brawlinthefamily! great comic

Spoiler

 

[dimensionsword64]

LOL @ Brawlinthefamily! great comic

Spoiler

Love that comic!

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

Alright, here's the thing. Yes, sales do count towards which characters get in. Nintendo isn't dumb, they know that if a game sells millions of copies, including a character from that franchise is a good way to get people to buy Super Smash Bros. That's almost the whole point of Smash Bros. But they're not going to fill the game with 20 Pokemon reps, 10 Zelda reps and 10 Mario reps, because a game like that appeals to only three demographics. Mario, Zelda and Pokemon fans are already pretty likely to buy the game, because all three will have a lot of representation. Nintendo's goal this time around is to make the game play better and appeal to fans of smaller franchises, both of which are things Palutena would excel at. Are there other characters from smaller franchises who also deserve to get in? Yes. Shulk and Andy come to mind. But Andy's been out of the public mind for some time. Both Shulk and Palutena are rather likely, but I feel like Palutena has a slight edge, if only for having a bit more potential gameplay-wise. However, realistically, I don't feel like any other "small franchise" characters come close to those two. They're either too old or don't have enough potential. Or both.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Bash Sisters needs to be acknowledged, and that alone would be great.

Event Match:
Super Bash Sisters
Player: Palutena
Opponents: Samus, Peach, Zelda, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina
Lives: N/A
Time: 5 minutes
Requirement: Score the most KOs in a FFA between the lovely ladies of Smash.

 

[El Fonz0]

Event Match:
Super Bash Sisters
Player: Palutena
Opponents: Samus, Peach, Zelda, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina
Lives: N/A
Time: 5 minutes
Requirement: Score the most KOs in a FFA between the lovely ladies of Smash.

+ any other female fighter that gets confirmed

 

[Deleted member]

Limit is 6 characters.
7 may be acceptable because of 2P Multi-Man Brawl, but anything higher than that would be pushing it.

I see a mention of the 'Elite 4 + the Champion', so I may as well throw this out here. It's nothing spectacular, but hey...

Throw in Black Shadow. He's elite in Japan much like Little Mac and Ridley are elite in the US. He can be the Rival fight before the E4 (excluding R/B).

 

[Louie G.]

Throw in Black Shadow. He's elite in Japan much like Little Mac and Ridley are elite in the US. He can be the Rival fight before the E4 (excluding R/B).

Really, Black Shadow is that popular?
Why don't I see him on rosters more often then?

 

[Baskerville]

Event Match:
Super Bash Sisters
Player: Palutena
Opponents: Samus, Peach, Zelda, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina
Lives: N/A
Time: 5 minutes
Requirement: Score the most KOs in a FFA between the lovely ladies of Smash.

Oh god.
This REALLY needs to happen!

 

[Freduardo]

I've recently gotten back into playing kid icarus uprising and collecting more weapons. Honestly much like Fire Emblem, I'd be good with a super massive fighting game with all these characters. Palutena, Medusa, Magnus (I think that was his name), Viridi, all of her lieutenants, Pandora, Thanatos, Hades, PYRON! I just want them all. Alllllllll.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

A lot of games represented in Smash Bros need their own Smash Spin-off. Like a Zelda Smash, or a Kid Icarus Smash. It would just so perfect.

 

[Morbi]

Limit is 6 characters.
7 may be acceptable because of 2P Multi-Man Brawl, but anything higher than that would be pushing it.


Throw in Black Shadow. He's elite in Japan much like Little Mac and Ridley are elite in the US. He can be the Rival fight before the E4 (excluding R/B).

Black Shadow is elite in Japan? I didn't know that, that actually inspires some confidence.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Black Shadow is elite in Japan? I didn't know that, that actually inspires some confidence.

It's more so due to the lack of popularity for Ridley and Little Mac than it is for Black Shadow himself I'm sure though, I doubt Black Shadow is as popular over there as any of our Elite Four is here by average. Though it's probably not good to underestimate how popular a character can become from a single voice actor either, as I believe that was the reason for Black Shadow's popularity.

 

[Morbi]

It's more so due to the lack of popularity for Ridley and Little Mac than it is for Black Shadow himself I'm sure though, I doubt Black Shadow is as popular over there as any of our Elite Four is here by average. Though it's probably not good to underestimate how popular a character can become from a single voice actor either, as I believe that was the reason for Black Shadow's popularity.

Yes, I recall reading something to that effect. In that event, the voice work is what made Captain Falcon popular, it wouldn't seem that absurd that Sakurai might opt to add him simply because of the voice actor? I don't know, but as a Black Shadow supporter, it certainly makes me feel better that he is worth something over there.

 

[Raetah]

One thing you're missing is Palutena wouldn't be the only left out based on your priority system.

Of course it wouldn't. Im well aware of that. And i clearly said that Sakurai criteria is different than my system to consider characters.

Kiss all the secondary characters from series outside of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon goodbye because they don't dominate in quantity of sales and games as much as these series. Don't count on Lucas, Ike, Wolf, Olimar ever appearing in Brawl either. Olimar had two games why would he ever appear over a Nintendog? Nintendog's series outsold and outnumbered the Pikmin series not to mention Lucas. Ike is a good example too his low impact based on sales, amongst lowest in the series, and game appearances don't justify him either.

I never said that a franchise needs hundreds of millions of sales to have more than one character. For example 5 millions of Sales seems a good number to create an scale, less than 5m= 1 character, between 5m and 10m= 2 characters, between 10m and 15m. However if follow this rule at the end Mario and Pokemon would have an immense number of playable characters.
Because of this, it is precise to add another things to consider in my criteria concepts, that i forgot at the beginning. The level of representation. Of course there are many Mario characters, but if we compare characters, at the end we can reduce the list. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Rosalina. Including Yoshi we have 6 Mario characters at the moment. Characters that could be added. Toad being playable in many games, but he still being part of Peach at the moment. An alternative form or a power up state of Mario.
A character to specifically represent Mario spin-off, like Daisy or Waluigi. A 2nd Villain, but personally I cant remember good candidates now. So, at the end I consider that 10-12 Mario characters is fair, but first more minor characters please. If we talk of Pokemon the list is Pikachu, being the mascot of the franchise, Jigglypuff, at this point I couldn't imagine ssb without jiggly, also is from the 1st generation, Mewtwo being one of the most popular legendary Pokemons, if not the most, also first generation. Pokemon Trainer which represents both the human part of Pokemon, Red, the first playable Pokemon Trainer and also the 3 starters of Kanto, first gen wins. To finalize the list 1 or 2 popular Pokemon or a Megaevolution.

Now to answer about some characters thatf you mentioned. Pikmin is enough to have the main character, Olimar. Ike and Wolf, sales of Star Fox barely reach 3rd rep in my scale. And Fire Emblem should stay with 2 but I said before that I can consider 3 characters. Because sales are not the only thing that I consider. Star Fox and Fire Emblem are extremely popular franchises in ssb.
And with Lucas, yeah, clearly overrepresenting. Don't get me wrong I like Earthbound-Mother and i think that Lucas is an incredible character who had to beat some of the most hardest situations of all the Nintendo titles, but still... Meh.

By the way. I know that Nintendogs using my criteria outclasses many character of my list and some included. But consider that it would be animal abuse and Labrador dittos would be dogfight and that is not nice lol. But now for real im not against Nintendog getting a playable character. But apparently Sakurai dont considers it properly.

Are there other characters from smaller franchises who also deserve to get in? Yes. Shulk and Andy come to mind. But Andy's been out of the public mind for some time. Both Shulk and Palutena are rather likely, but I feel like Palutena has a slight edge, if only for having a bit more potential gameplay-wise. However, realistically, I don't feel like any other "small franchise" characters come close to those two. They're either too old or don't have enough potential. Or both.

If you consider that Isaac is not close to Shulk and Palutena because he is in a superior position, then im agree. What about Ray MK III of custom robo, Little Mac, Black Shadow.