I'm unsure which thread is best to ask this, but I think here is a safe bet.
I've got a tournament on Saturday, and by now I know my pool, and there is a very skilled Palutena in there (PR'd player in my region). The problem is, I know nothing about the Palutena MU... with any character.
When playing seriously, I use Rosalina, Marth, Bayonetta and ZSS, but my ZSS in general is still a W.I.P., so "competitively" or in tournament, I use the first 3, so I'm most likely going to be using one of those (or a few, should the situation call for it).
With that in mind, could I have some MU advice please?
Not limited to just these questions (as any more advice would be MUCH appreciated), but here are a few things I am wondering:
- Which of those characters would be best to use?
- Could anybody explain briefly about those character's (even ZSS, it would be helpful for my development with her) MU's with Palutena (do they win or lose etc, and why)?
- Is there anything I should be doing against her?
- What should I be looking out for?
- Anything I shouldn't be doing?
- Any particular notes about her (like, some characters you can completely break them by simply DI'ing a certain way for example)?
Thanks to anybody who can help in advance!
I don't mind helping with this. But first let me give a little preface about this character. Palutena is a character with a very strong defensive gameplay style, so most Pally players are going to play with that in mind. They use that strong defense as an offense by baiting out attacks, and trying to go for hard reads and punishes. However, she is a very slow fighter (fighting wise), and struggles with kill options. But she makes up for it with fast mobility, and of course the defensive style that I mentioned. With that said, lets dive in.
"What should I be looking out for?" / "Anything I shouldn't be doing?"
I think it'd be best to start with these since it could paint a clear picture on who you should use. The top most used moves by Palutena's of all skill levels is Jab 1, Fair, Bair, Uair
, Nair, Dash Attack, Grab.
Jab 1: Jab 1 comes out very quick, and is almost a must use for Palutena players. If you get hit by it, DON'T air dodge unless you are jumping after getting hit. It happens so quick that most people either don't think about it, or assume Palutena can't do anything out of it, but SHE CAN! From Jab, she could go for Smash attack, a dash attack, an aerial (if the percent is high), or (and the most common one) a grab. The best way to handle this is to jump after getting hit by it, and then air dodge, or pull out a very fast, but safe attack.
Fair: I put forward air on here because I promise you, you won't go through a match without seeing this at least 20 times. Startup is quick, has very little landing land, and is a good spacing tool. From a short hop, it can true combo into Jab, which can lead to all the other mixup options I mentioned above.
Bair and Dash Attack: Alright this is definitely something you NEED to look out for. Both of these moves have shield frames on them, which means most if not all of your attacks would lose to these moves. You won't see a Palutena player use Dash Attack as much as you will see Bair. Bair is a more safer option that basically does the same thing Dash Attack does. Only difference, Bair does more damage with less knockback, and Dash Attack does less damage with more knockback.
Uair: If Palutena has rage, and you are at 65% or above and get hit by this move, pray! It has stupid knockback, and is Palutena's most strongest kill move IMO. It's easier to connect than her Smash Attacks, and is usually safe to use if the Palutena player is in the air long enough. It has a long lasting hitbox, and a weird final hit that expands that hitbox. It looks so stupid it's laughable. Even If Palutena misses the first few hits, all you see is this little "pop" and it sends the opponent off. If you're in the air, most moves can't beat it, so it's best to avoid it entirely. I know there are a few characters who can beat the move, but I forgot who. To make up for how strong this move is, it has incredible landing land. So if a Palutena player tries this on you and completely misses, they are wide open (as a matter of fact, a lot of Palutena's moves are like that). However there is one way to get past that endlag, and that is if the Palutena player uses Fair before touching the ground. It's weird, but it's a way to avoid the endlag.
Nair: This move has very quick start up, and is one of Palutena's strong edge tools. A Palutena player might use this move when your off stage to gimp you, or stage spike you. It can also true combo into Uair or Fair at early percents.
Lastly, her Grab: You are looking at the number one most used move by Palutena players. Expect to see this a lot. Down Throw is the BnB for Palutena players, and it also has 2 true kill combos. First is DThrow into Uair, and the other is DThrow into Bair. DThrow into Bair works if you DI directly away from Palutena. An example of this is when Prince Ramen played against ZeRo. The correct DI is diagonally up and away from Palutena. She can't land Uair, and Bair becomes a struggle to land.
"Could anybody explain briefly about those character's MU's with Palutena?"
Palutena > or = Marth: The reason why I say this is because a lot of the moves Marth has Palutena can beat out. But it's not completely in her favor though. Marth can out-reach her in some cases with proper spacing, which is something Marth is very good at.
Palutena < or = ZSS: ZSS is very strong, and Palutena isn't an aggressive fighter. She struggles greatly with characters that can fight fast. Despite this, similar to Marth, it's not entirely in ZSS's favor though, due to some moves being beat out. I would only use ZSS Neutral B when Palutena is off stage. Reflect is really slow, so a seasoned Palutena player probably won't try to reflect it off stage. At distances, try using ZSS's air grapple move. Doing this will keep pressure on Palutena, and may keep the player out the air, or from thinking about using Auto Reticle.
Palutena > Bayonetta: Based off of everything I mentioned above, Bayonetta would be the worst to use out of the four due to a lot of moves Palutena has that would beat out Bayonetta's moves. Palutena is a reaction based character, and one of the ways to deal with Bayonetta is patience, and good reads. This is something most Palutena players would be prepared for. Bair would be used a lot in this match, and forget witch time because most Palutena players would be going for a grab anyway. Side B loses to Bair, Dair loses to Uair, and Neutral B can be reflected. Coming back to the stage, Palutena could use Nair or even Up Smash in some cases.
Palutena < Rosalina: Where do I even begin. Rosalina is super light, which kills most of Palutena's kill options, and Luma just blocks everything. This MU IMO opinion is one of Palutena's worst match ups. Almost all of Rosalina's moves out-reaches Palutena's moves, and Luma is.......well.....Luma.
"Which of those characters would be best to use?"
With all that said, Rosalina, by a landslide. If for whatever reason Rosalina doesn't work, use ZSS. If ZSS doesn't work, use Marth.
Some additional notes to mention:
Palutena's Side B (Reflect) is unblockable, and can kill people off stage by pushing them away from the ledge.
Example (the kill use):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsoXlhp80o @1:32
Palutena can also warp cancel. Not sure if your tourney does stage bans or strikes while selecting stages, but you might want to strike off stages like Battlefield or Smashvile. Try picking stages with the least amount of platforms. This will by definition, restrict Palutena's movement options greatly.
But even on FD, look out for things like this:
Smash attacks are very slow, but hit very hard. FSmash and DSmash both have wind boxes on them, and USmash might be used if the Palutena player thinks it's safe. USmash can also hit you on ledge so be careful.
And don't worry about tilts, I promise you won't see those. Out of the 3, DTilt is pretty good, but I don't see many Pallys use it. It can also gimp people on ledge. UTilt wouldn't be such a bad move if the endlag wasn't bad. It can kill at high percents though. And if you ever see STilt, I guarantee you it was an accident.
Sorry this is too long, I know you wanted this to be explained briefly, but this was the best I could do at taking a stab at it. I hope this helps any, and good luck at your tournament!!
Also, if it helps, I made a Palutena guide video a year ago, and put my foot in it. It mostly covers everything I just said, but more in depth and with demonstration. Towards the end of the video, I also showcased some combos she is capable of.
Guide Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srHs0E6NZBw&t=1s
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