Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[sjb.dario]

Bowserboy3 No worries, man. I honestly don't get why some ppl on this website get so grouchy, myself.

Anyways, about the d-throw. It's generally best if you DI up + away. Another thing to note is that d-throw -> u-air is usually true unless if the opponent is at an absurdly high % (like around 150+) or if Palu has good amount of rage (or both obviously). Just prepare to DI-away+up and jump away (and airdodge maybe) if you get d-thrown.

Anyways, good luck in the tourney! If you have any more questions or if you want some more clarifications, feel free to ask.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'll remember up + away... thanks!

I *hopefully* shouldn't have a problem with reacting to Jab > Grab; I use Marth, and my friend mains Lucina, so Jab connects into multiple things in a similar way Palutena's leads into grab. The best way to escape these, like Palutena, is jump and then airdodge. Like you say, if I try and imagine some of her tools being like Marth's, that may make things a bit easier for me to understand/remember.

Ok then, I know this was touched on, but I want to clarify again... stages. Does Palutena have any legitimate bad stages? I can't see her having any literal bad stages, but more there are ones far less desirable than others (but I may be wrong!).

What would you say are Palutena's best stages, ranked best to worst?

 

[kmpyj]

I'll remember up + away... thanks!

I *hopefully* shouldn't have a problem with reacting to Jab > Grab; I use Marth, and my friend mains Lucina, so Jab connects into multiple things in a similar way Palutena's leads into grab. The best way to escape these, like Palutena, is jump and then airdodge. Like you say, if I try and imagine some of her tools being like Marth's, that may make things a bit easier for me to understand/remember.

Ok then, I know this was touched on, but I want to clarify again... stages. Does Palutena have any legitimate bad stages? I can't see her having any literal bad stages, but more there are ones far less desirable than others (but I may be wrong!).

What would you say are Palutena's best stages, ranked best to worst?

I think in terms of legal stages, like you said, I can't really think of a bad stage for Palutena. But in terms of stages that makes her have a bit more of a hard time, it would be any stage with little to no platforms at all. Platforms give her more mobility, and can extend combos for her as well. Plus there's the whole warp cancels which could make for some serious mind games.

To give you an idea of what stages would be best for you, I'll use my tourney's legal stages as an example.

In my tourney scene, the starting stages are Battlefield, Final Destination, and Smashvile. When we start off, we both get to strike one stage each, leaving one left. While using Palutena, I always strike Final Destination, leaving my opponent to either strike Battlefield, or Smashvile. To me, I feel more comfortable on both of those stages than I do on Final Destination. From there, I'd hope he or she would strike Smashvile. Battlefield IMO is Palutena's strongest stage in the entire game. The platforms are placed perfectly, and it's just an overall well-rounded stage. Smashvile comes at a close second. So in this situation if I were you, I would strike Battlefield.

For our counterpick stages, we have Town and City, Lylat Cruise, Suzaku Castle, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt, and Castle Siege, as well as the previous starting stages. Still playing Palutena, my go to stage would still be Battlefield. As for the stage I would ban this time, it would be Delfino Plaza. I can't do some of my warp cancel tech on this stage due to the stage itself moving. Warping back to the stage is something I do a lot, but on Delfino, Palutena falls right through the stage when I try to do it.

If I had to rate these stages from best to least:

Battlefield > Smashvile/Town and City > Final Destination > Castle Siege > Duck Hunt > Suzaku Castle > Lylat Cruise > Delfino Plaza.

It's also worth to note that any Battlefield variant (such as Dreamland 64, Miiverse, etc.) counts as well. And the reason why I placed FD over Castle Siege is because I'm pretty use to playing on omega stages with Palutena (thanks For Glory). Lylat Cruise does have platforms, but they're placed awkwardly for warp cancels, plus the stage sometimes gimps me when recovering. And Suzaku Castle is low because I'm very inexperienced with it. It could be good, it could be bad, but I haven't played on it much so I wouldn't know.

But of course this is just my experience. So if you were playing against me, strike Battlefield, and counterpick me with either Lylat Cruise, or Delfino Plaza. I'd say Delfino Plaza if the Palutena your playing against likes to warp a lot, or Lylat Cruise for the weird ledge gimps (might be more effective tbh). Picking either of these stages would probably make me switch characters, lol.

 

[sjb.dario]

I'll remember up + away... thanks!

I *hopefully* shouldn't have a problem with reacting to Jab > Grab; I use Marth, and my friend mains Lucina, so Jab connects into multiple things in a similar way Palutena's leads into grab. The best way to escape these, like Palutena, is jump and then airdodge. Like you say, if I try and imagine some of her tools being like Marth's, that may make things a bit easier for me to understand/remember.

Ok then, I know this was touched on, but I want to clarify again... stages. Does Palutena have any legitimate bad stages? I can't see her having any literal bad stages, but more there are ones far less desirable than others (but I may be wrong!).

What would you say are Palutena's best stages, ranked best to worst?

From my experience as a Palu main, Palu doesn't have a stage she particularly struggles in. However, she doesn't have a stage she excels in, either.

It's all preference for all Palu mains, really. I enjoy going to Final Destination most of the time, but I can't go to it if the opponent I play against excels in FD with a specific character (like Mac, for instance).

If that Palu main likes platforms, try avoiding Battlefield and such. If he/she likes the lack of platforms, avoid FD. If that person likes to camp, avoid Duck Hunt. Etc, etc, etc...

Basically, don't worry about stages too much. Just try to go to your favorite stage and try your best in it.

 

[sjb.dario]

I finally got around playing some friendlies again.

snook snook This is long overdue, but the autoreticle edgeguard technique is actually a pretty good mix up. You're right in that it forces a reaction out of ppl recovering, and it gives me more leeway in edgeguarding in general.

Obviously, I won't use it every single time, but I see myself using this in most match ups.

 

[Rran]

Bowserboy3 How'd you do??

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bowserboy3 How'd you do??

Forgot to mention!

In the end, I lost the set. However, all of the games were exceptionally close (last stock, last hit), and I did take a game (so I lost 2-1). I went Marth, because he was just working on the day. How I lost it was unfortunate, considering all the games were exceptionally close; I did an airdodge ledge getup as I saw him charging an Up Smash, thought I would get past it... aha, nope! In theory, it would have either been safer to just stay on the ledge and try and punish the endlag, or try a Nair getup to hit Palutena before the Up Smash would hit (pretty sure Nair would be able to outrange horizontally Palutena's Up Smash).

Overall, I played pretty solid, and much better than I expected. Another thing that's just one of my problems, is that I just take a while to warm up properly (if you play Pokémon, think Regigigas's Slow Start ability!); in my pool, I lost my first two sets 2-1 (of course, the Palutena player was one of these), but I won every game after this, 2-0'ing everybody apart from my last game, which was a 2-1 victory against a PR'd Meta Knight player (ranked even higher than this Palutena player!) with my Bayonetta, so that's something to be proud of in my eyes. This allowed me to get out of my pools. I ended up in 25th overall, but the game/set taken from those respective ranked players is nice to have under my belt, especially when I literally just missed out on making my region's PR this winter!

I doubt I would have even taken a single game off of this Palutena player without your help. With it, he's certainly not that big scary Palutena everybody talks about. Next time we play, he's going down! Thanks again to anyone who helped!

 

[sjb.dario]

Bowserboy3 Glad to hear that you've done well in the tourney!

Sucks that you weren't able to get that Palu player, but you'll get your chance. Seems like you got a good hang of it, at least.

Really awesome to hear that you did well against that Meta Knight, though! Great work on that. I hope that you get big victories like this in the future.

Also, you'll get that palu player soon enough lol. Btw, what's that Palu main's tag?

 

[sjb.dario]

Any notable active Palutena players to watch right now? I've been looking around, but my search was fruitless.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bowserboy3 Glad to hear that you've done well in the tourney!

Sucks that you weren't able to get that Palu player, but you'll get your chance. Seems like you got a good hang of it, at least.

Really awesome to hear that you did well against that Meta Knight, though! Great work on that. I hope that you get big victories like this in the future.

Also, you'll get that palu player soon enough lol. Btw, what's that Palu main's tag?

Thanks for the kind words!

His tag is Shadow Warrior. He's a solid player. PR'd either 8th or 12th in my region (can't remember which, there's a guy with a similar tag in the other spot).

 

[snook]

Thanks for the kind words!

His tag is Shadow Warrior. He's a solid player. PR'd either 8th or 12th in my region (can't remember which, there's a guy with a similar tag in the other spot).

That's really interesting.

I'm gonna have to go over some time to see if he's better than me lol.

 

[sjb.dario]

Bowserboy3 I think I know who this palu is. Man, if you told me the name earlier I would've known who you should've asked for a player-specific MU advice lol.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bowserboy3 I think I know who this palu is. Man, if you told me the name earlier I would've known who you should've asked for a player-specific MU advice lol.

Darn it lmao. I never thought you might know who he is (but then again, I'm on the Palutena boards after all, so if there's anyone who'd know who he is, it's here).

 

[sjb.dario]

After looking at the marth frame data visualization, I decided to take a stab at it on my own.

https://smashboards.com/threads/palutena-frame-data-visualization.445024/

Hoping to help Palu theorycrafters with this.

 

[sjb.dario]

So, if you guys were keeping up, the ruleset for Smash 4 has been update. The biggest one is probably the stage list.

What are y'all's thoughts on this? I'm still iffy on the lack of stages available, but I feel like this is going to help Palutena a small bit, considering how she'll have an easier time banning stages that the opponent will have an easier time in.

This is going to be interesting, although I doubt the stage list will stay the same after a few tourneys.

 

[snook]

Not to sure how I feel about it myself but I don't think we're changing anything in Europe soon anyway.
Personally when it comes to stages I really love having platforms for movement and escape options. Grouping dreamland and battlefield together doesn't really help during the banning process in regards to that. I'm also starting to like Lylat more due to it helping in some of her harder matchups like Fox, making it easier to set up edgeguards due to the tilt and even giving access to earlier kills off the top at times.
But yeah as I said it's not going to immediately affect my scene so I'm not really thinking about it much.



Also as a complete side note gonna just talk about some things I've learned about dealing with some of my struggling matchups after the event I was at during the weekend.

FOX:

When it comes to rush down this may be the hardest one to deal with for Palu, all her attacks get stuffed out by Fox's, overwhelming pressure usually pushes you to the ledge and you'll find yourself in shield a lot.
He has plenty of time to throw out a move and think of his next decision before you can counter attack, making her defensive style not as effective. There are a few things you can do in neutral to avoid this if possible.

Neutral:
Take advantage of Palu's Turn around cancel (TRC) into jab for a grounded approach option as well as stuffing out any grounded approach like dash grab or dash attack.
You can TRC into a dash as well, giving a pseudo dash dancing effect. This is great for forcing an approach and safe spacing. (for future reference I'll just call TRC into dash a TRCD.)
Due to his fast fall speed, you'll need to make a decision on whether to go for the single jab into grab or the rapid jab.
At lower percents the rapid jab is the best option as they'll fall too fast out of the single jab and get a punish.
Rapid jab will also catch out people who run up shield into your jab and let go too early expecting a single jab into grab.
This makes a pretty decent conditioning tool to use in neutral while staying grounded, as they'll have to decide to either hold shield expecting the rapid jabs at the risk of being punished with a grab, or unshield at the risk of the rapid jab hitting.
This of course also has a problem on Palu's end as she needs to commit to one or the other but at mid percents it becomes easier to just single jab into another single jab to cover both options.
Try not to be pushed into a corner too much, keeping center stage while TRCD.
Dealing with Fox's bair barrage can be tricky, fade back bairs with Palu can work and avoid the inevitable up tilt upon landing from Fox. This can put you in a bad bit of lag out of short hop so save this option as a mix up from TRC jabs as well as the following two things I'll mention.
Short hop fairs and empty hops to keep your opponent guessing. If they're not committing to an approach after TRC jabs this empty hops are another way to bait an approach. Poking fairs can be safe on shield if spaced correctly, use them if you find your opponent forced to the ledge or even as a safe enough approaching option to get something started.
If the Fox is jumping a lot dash attack can cover his landing regardless of whether or not he uses an aerial, if it's out of short hop. Fair and bair can also be used, dash attack being the safest if you get the correct call out but pretty much a guaranteed.
Finally A.R can be used if you're at max distance to catch Fox jumping, use when you have a lead and sparingly.

tl;dr for most useful options to least imo
Use Turn around cancel into jab or dash back for grounded options
Use Bair to catch jumps
Use fair for safe poking if you have center stage
Use Dash attack to catch approaching aerials

Things to avoid
FH nair, even though it auto cancels and can be an easy way of shield grabbing if they try to cover your landing, putting yourself above Fox is not a great idea.



Offense:
When you finally get in with either the rapid jabs or jab to grab after TRC this is your chance to put on some solid damage or even cause a ledge guarding situation.
I'll start with jab grabs.
As everyone probably knows you can just go for the simple two hit down throw to fair at 0, assuming the Fox DIs correctly. If not the maximum punish you can get would be Nair to jump up air or bair depending on how you drift the nair. This can be extended further on tri platform stages but it's easier to assume the Fox will DI the down throw.
Out of correct Di you can get a further dash attack to cover their landing or rapid jabs that they will fall into. Either way they'll most likely be pushed to the corner of the stage, be pushed off stage or be sent into the air with about 20%+ on them. This is your chance to apply additional pressure by getting ready to edge guard or using a FH nair(which will auto cancel) to see the defensive option they choose to avoid it. After that it'll most likely be back to neutral until the next opening.
At higher percents the fair will obviously send them a bit further towards the ledge, this is where it gets even more crucial to apply pressure and learn the Fox's recovery options. You can also use bair instead of fair for additional damage but you may want to keep it as a kill option for later on.

Will edit this later actually have a lot of data on it from what I could pick up playing against C.R.Z just gotta go for a while and not bothered to save this somewhere else lol.

 

[sjb.dario]

Well, it's been a long run, but I dropped Palu. I kinda wish I got more out of her before doing so, but oh well.

Not sure if I'll be posting here as frequently as I used to, but I gotta say it's been fun getting help and talking with the others here.

I wish the best of luck to all the faithful Palu mains out there!

 

[snook]

Well, it's been a long run, but I dropped Palu. I kinda wish I got more out of her before doing so, but oh well.

Not sure if I'll be posting here as frequently as I used to, but I gotta say it's been fun getting help and talking with the others here.

I wish the best of luck to all the faithful Palu mains out there!

The 3 remaining palu mains will miss you lol.

If you don't mind me asking who did you switch to?

And this place is pretty dead anyway, I just post in here when I discover something or feel like sharing my experiences, never really expecting a reply.

 

[sjb.dario]

The 3 remaining palu mains will miss you lol.

If you don't mind me asking who did you switch to?

And this place is pretty dead anyway, I just post in here when I discover something or feel like sharing my experiences, never really expecting a reply.

Lol, thanks for your thoughts. I was a Palu main for nearly 2 years because I liked her toolkit and neutral-heavy playstyle. While I think she still has potential, I began to adapt a different playstyle and became more aggressive in general. I've been feeling weighed down by Palu because of this (I don't mean that she's a bad character), and I've finally found a character that fits my playstyle.

I'm switching to Lucina because of this. I've had a secondary Marth for a year, but I didn't choose him in the end due to his tipper. It made me feel like I had to be a bit defensive and rely too much on spacing for the damage reward. Lucina's lack of tipper really allows me to space and be aggressive, and I've begun to find enjoyment in this game because of her.

Anyways, although I dropped Palu, I still have fun talking about her with others. I always enjoyed reading your posts along with other ppl's post here, and I still do. I'm not sure if you're more active on discord, but as someone who's not part of the smashcord community, I would be kinda bummed if you and the few others here stop posting here.

Anyways, I wish you the best of luck on your way to becoming a better Palu main. I actually got a lot of help from your posts here (no joke), and I hope you continue to improve and discover new things.

 

[kmpyj]

Lol, thanks for your thoughts. I was a Palu main for nearly 2 years because I liked her toolkit and neutral-heavy playstyle. While I think she still has potential, I began to adapt a different playstyle and became more aggressive in general. I've been feeling weighed down by Palu because of this (I don't mean that she's a bad character), and I've finally found a character that fits my playstyle.

I'm switching to Lucina because of this. I've had a secondary Marth for a year, but I didn't choose him in the end due to his tipper. It made me feel like I had to be a bit defensive and rely too much on spacing for the damage reward. Lucina's lack of tipper really allows me to space and be aggressive, and I've begun to find enjoyment in this game because of her.

Anyways, although I dropped Palu, I still have fun talking about her with others. I always enjoyed reading your posts along with other ppl's post here, and I still do. I'm not sure if you're more active on discord, but as someone who's not part of the smashcord community, I would be kinda bummed if you and the few others here stop posting here.

Anyways, I wish you the best of luck on your way to becoming a better Palu main. I actually got a lot of help from your posts here (no joke), and I hope you continue to improve and discover new things.

Good luck on your journey with Lucina! Sad your dropping Palu, but if you found a better play style that fits you more, than more power to you. I had to do the same with Chun Li in Street Fighter 5 when I got to play as Karin, so I completely understand. But still, feel free to continue to have the talks though.

 

[sjb.dario]

Good luck on your journey with Lucina! Sad your dropping Palu, but if you found a better play style that fits you more, than more power to you. I had to do the same with Chun Li in Street Fighter 5 when I got to play as Karin, so I completely understand. But still, feel free to continue to have the talks though.

Thanks, dude. I appreciate it. Good luck on your smash career, too!

I'll definitely still stick around here; I grew to like talking with you guys lol.

 

[sjb.dario]

Not to sure how I feel about it myself but I don't think we're changing anything in Europe soon anyway.
Personally when it comes to stages I really love having platforms for movement and escape options. Grouping dreamland and battlefield together doesn't really help during the banning process in regards to that. I'm also starting to like Lylat more due to it helping in some of her harder matchups like Fox, making it easier to set up edgeguards due to the tilt and even giving access to earlier kills off the top at times.
But yeah as I said it's not going to immediately affect my scene so I'm not really thinking about it much.



Also as a complete side note gonna just talk about some things I've learned about dealing with some of my struggling matchups after the event I was at during the weekend.

FOX:

When it comes to rush down this may be the hardest one to deal with for Palu, all her attacks get stuffed out by Fox's, overwhelming pressure usually pushes you to the ledge and you'll find yourself in shield a lot.
He has plenty of time to throw out a move and think of his next decision before you can counter attack, making her defensive style not as effective. There are a few things you can do in neutral to avoid this if possible.

Neutral:
Take advantage of Palu's Turn around cancel (TRC) into jab for a grounded approach option as well as stuffing out any grounded approach like dash grab or dash attack.
You can TRC into a dash as well, giving a pseudo dash dancing effect. This is great for forcing an approach and safe spacing. (for future reference I'll just call TRC into dash a TRCD.)
Due to his fast fall speed, you'll need to make a decision on whether to go for the single jab into grab or the rapid jab.
At lower percents the rapid jab is the best option as they'll fall too fast out of the single jab and get a punish.
Rapid jab will also catch out people who run up shield into your jab and let go too early expecting a single jab into grab.
This makes a pretty decent conditioning tool to use in neutral while staying grounded, as they'll have to decide to either hold shield expecting the rapid jabs at the risk of being punished with a grab, or unshield at the risk of the rapid jab hitting.
This of course also has a problem on Palu's end as she needs to commit to one or the other but at mid percents it becomes easier to just single jab into another single jab to cover both options.
Try not to be pushed into a corner too much, keeping center stage while TRCD.
Dealing with Fox's bair barrage can be tricky, fade back bairs with Palu can work and avoid the inevitable up tilt upon landing from Fox. This can put you in a bad bit of lag out of short hop so save this option as a mix up from TRC jabs as well as the following two things I'll mention.
Short hop fairs and empty hops to keep your opponent guessing. If they're not committing to an approach after TRC jabs this empty hops are another way to bait an approach. Poking fairs can be safe on shield if spaced correctly, use them if you find your opponent forced to the ledge or even as a safe enough approaching option to get something started.
If the Fox is jumping a lot dash attack can cover his landing regardless of whether or not he uses an aerial, if it's out of short hop. Fair and bair can also be used, dash attack being the safest if you get the correct call out but pretty much a guaranteed.
Finally A.R can be used if you're at max distance to catch Fox jumping, use when you have a lead and sparingly.

tl;dr for most useful options to least imo
Use Turn around cancel into jab or dash back for grounded options
Use Bair to catch jumps
Use fair for safe poking if you have center stage
Use Dash attack to catch approaching aerials

Things to avoid
FH nair, even though it auto cancels and can be an easy way of shield grabbing if they try to cover your landing, putting yourself above Fox is not a great idea.



Offense:
When you finally get in with either the rapid jabs or jab to grab after TRC this is your chance to put on some solid damage or even cause a ledge guarding situation.
I'll start with jab grabs.
As everyone probably knows you can just go for the simple two hit down throw to fair at 0, assuming the Fox DIs correctly. If not the maximum punish you can get would be Nair to jump up air or bair depending on how you drift the nair. This can be extended further on tri platform stages but it's easier to assume the Fox will DI the down throw.
Out of correct Di you can get a further dash attack to cover their landing or rapid jabs that they will fall into. Either way they'll most likely be pushed to the corner of the stage, be pushed off stage or be sent into the air with about 20%+ on them. This is your chance to apply additional pressure by getting ready to edge guard or using a FH nair(which will auto cancel) to see the defensive option they choose to avoid it. After that it'll most likely be back to neutral until the next opening.
At higher percents the fair will obviously send them a bit further towards the ledge, this is where it gets even more crucial to apply pressure and learn the Fox's recovery options. You can also use bair instead of fair for additional damage but you may want to keep it as a kill option for later on.

Will edit this later actually have a lot of data on it from what I could pick up playing against C.R.Z just gotta go for a while and not bothered to save this somewhere else lol.

I think you summed up the MU pretty well. There is no way Palutena can outpace Fox and control the flow of the game here. She has to either stay mostly defensive and/or go for the bait-and-punish. The biggest thing Palutena has to focus on when in a disadvantage state here is to not get juggled and get back to the ground ASAP. Nairing can somewhat help, but i think warping to ledge or a platform ledge would help a lot here.

Dash attack and bair definitely help here. One thing Palutena can also do when Fox is at the ledge is to multijab him off the stage. If his % is high enough and you have enough rage, it could potentially kill him.

All in all, it's still Palutena's worst MU. It's definitely not impossible to win it, but it'll take a whole lot of skills to beat a good Fox with Palu. I think it's 70-30 at the absolute worst for Palu (her ONLY 70-30 at that).

 

[sjb.dario]

I remember making these images to help me visualize the different applications of Palutena's up-b.

This is the distance for ledgeless up-b. As long as Palutena is warping in the red area, Palutena should be able to land on the stage if she is avoiding ledge grab.

I also made a graphic that visualizes the distance for snapping onto the ledge safely from above. Warping in the red outline should help Palutena snap automatically to the ledge without getting 2-framed.

Ledge-cancel teleport graphic. Warping at the intersection points of the outlines would be extremely helpful, considering how it will force the opponent to guess which ledge you're trying to warp to.

I used to keep these images to myself, but now that I'm not maining Palutena, I have even less reasons not to share these. Hopefully you people will find more use in these than I do.

 

[Eisal]

I really do miss playing Palutena. I kind of dropped Smash completely since 8 months back, and I no longer have access to a Wii U. I have a 3DS though, but I can't really play in a way it's comfortable for my hands.

Do they still patch the game even? I remember hearing they stopped after some Bayonetta fixes.

 

[sjb.dario]

I really do miss playing Palutena. I kind of dropped Smash completely since 8 months back, and I no longer have access to a Wii U. I have a 3DS though, but I can't really play in a way it's comfortable for my hands.

Do they still patch the game even? I remember hearing they stopped after some Bayonetta fixes.

The game has not been patched since Bayo was updated. A good amount of people are hoping for an update if a switch version gets announced and released, though.

Sucks that you stopped playing this game. Hopefully you return one day.

 

[snook]

I made Palutena look cool somehow at the last thing I was at lol.

Spoiler

https://gfycat.com/TintedCalculatingGoldfinch

 

[sjb.dario]

I made Palutena look cool somehow at the last thing I was at lol.

Spoiler

https://gfycat.com/TintedCalculatingGoldfinch

...That is, by far, one of the sickest Palu plays I've ever seen in my life. That u-air though.

 

[snook]

Thanks haha, I think he was a tiny bit shook at the end because we were playing very passively the whole match and then I suddenly just did that.
He could have done up b out of the drag down up air otherwise.

Still popped off afterwards anyway lol.

 

[sjb.dario]

That is definitely pop-off worthy lol. The style was too much for anyone to handle.

 

[AuzzPanda]

I desperately wish Palutena had a colour variation that would give her black hair. So bad. Her 7th costume, (Black dress, gold jewelry and silver staff) would look AMAZING with black hair. SIGH.

 

[sjb.dario]

I desperately wish Palutena had a colour variation that would give her black hair. So bad. Her 7th costume, (Black dress, gold jewelry and silver staff) would look AMAZING with black hair. SIGH.

Although I'm personally satisfied with Palu's color variations, several have stated that she lacks truly diverse colors, as you say.

I gotta admit, it would be cool if there were color variations with different hair color.

 

[sjb.dario]

After not playing as Palutena, I began to miss playing as her. A Palutena-shaped hole was left in my mind. I thought playing as Lucina all this time would help patch it up, but in the end, it didn't work.

I told myself that I'll never main Palutena ever again in this game. I'm gonna have to go against what I said.

I'm picking up Palutena again.

After all these months, it finally struck to me. The reason I struggled as her in the first place is because I've been playing her wrong all this time.

First thing is neutral. I thought f-air and b-air would be the safest option in neutral. I knew something was wrong with this, but in the end, I found the perfect neutral aerial. D-air. D-air gives Palutena's leg sword-like properties that allows her to beat absolutely every single moves in the game. When she lands with it, she becomes as flat as a pancake, being able to dodge essentially all moves save the ones that stick to the ground. She's essentially given i-frames while she's kicking the ground. Perhaps the goddess landing in this fashion is so elegant and stunning, that it bends time and reality as we know it and allows her to bend the hitboxes of opponents.

Second thing is challenging shields. Palutena players usually challenge shields with a grab, which is followed up with a d-throw and an aerial. The problem with this is that it becomes unreliable with high rage. Unfortunately, it is the only true way to challenge people's shield as Palutena.....or so people think. The ultimate way to break this defensive option is to side-b. I call it, "The Wall". It is a powerful move that knocks people out of shield no matter who or what they are. Thankfully, this is proof that Palutena is indiscriminate and not a racist.

The third thing I would like to point out is the general playstyle of Palutena. Due to her decent range and slow frame data, people tend to play her defensively. They fish out for the opponent's mistakes and punish them accordingly. As time passed, this playstyle proved to be useless, as other players began to "figure out" Palutena. However, as I studied her frame data on KuroganeHammer's website, I found that Palutena's n-air comes out at frame 5. Frame 5. Guess what frame Sheik's second best projectile, Burst Grenade, comes out in. Frame 28. 28 - 5 = 23. Let this fact sink in. With this kind of frame data, Palutena is meant to be played rush-down and full aggro. She should be using n-airs and "The Wall" at any given opportunity. With this kind of toolkit, she would only lose to Roy because of his fully-charged neutral-b. In this case, all we have to do is use her best tool in her arsenal, f-tilt.

There are so many things going for Palutena, but none of them are being fully utilized. A fully-optimized Palutena would be able to beat every single character in the game, and she will achieve the S+ tier she truly deserves. It was dumb of me to drop her, but at least I learned the truth now. If you think otherwise, please give Palutena another chance!

 

[kmpyj]

After not playing as Palutena, I began to miss playing as her. A Palutena-shaped hole was left in my mind. I thought playing as Lucina all this time would help patch it up, but in the end, it didn't work.

I told myself that I'll never main Palutena ever again in this game. I'm gonna have to go against what I said.

I'm picking up Palutena again.

After all these months, it finally struck to me. The reason I struggled as her in the first place is because I've been playing her wrong all this time.

First thing is neutral. I thought f-air and b-air would be the safest option in neutral. I knew something was wrong with this, but in the end, I found the perfect neutral aerial. D-air. D-air gives Palutena's leg sword-like properties that allows her to beat absolutely every single moves in the game. When she lands with it, she becomes as flat as a pancake, being able to dodge essentially all moves save the ones that stick to the ground. She's essentially given i-frames while she's kicking the ground. Perhaps the goddess landing in this fashion is so elegant and stunning, that it bends time and reality as we know it and allows her to bend the hitboxes of opponents.

Second thing is challenging shields. Palutena players usually challenge shields with a grab, which is followed up with a d-throw and an aerial. The problem with this is that it becomes unreliable with high rage. Unfortunately, it is the only true way to challenge people's shield as Palutena.....or so people think. The ultimate way to break this defensive option is to side-b. I call it, "The Wall". It is a powerful move that knocks people out of shield no matter who or what they are. Thankfully, this is proof that Palutena is indiscriminate and not a racist.

The third thing I would like to point out is the general playstyle of Palutena. Due to her decent range and slow frame data, people tend to play her defensively. They fish out for the opponent's mistakes and punish them accordingly. As time passed, this playstyle proved to be useless, as other players began to "figure out" Palutena. However, as I studied her frame data on KuroganeHammer's website, I found that Palutena's n-air comes out at frame 5. Frame 5. Guess what frame Sheik's second best projectile, Burst Grenade, comes out in. Frame 28. 28 - 5 = 23. Let this fact sink in. With this kind of frame data, Palutena is meant to be played rush-down and full aggro. She should be using n-airs and "The Wall" at any given opportunity. With this kind of toolkit, she would only lose to Roy because of his fully-charged neutral-b. In this case, all we have to do is use her best tool in her arsenal, f-tilt.

There are so many things going for Palutena, but none of them are being fully utilized. A fully-optimized Palutena would be able to beat every single character in the game, and she will achieve the S+ tier she truly deserves. It was dumb of me to drop her, but at least I learned the truth now. If you think otherwise, please give Palutena another chance!

"It was dumb of me to drop her, but at least I learned the truth now."

See's that it was posted on Saturday

Saturday was 4/1/17

Hmmmmm......

 

[sjb.dario]

"It was dumb of me to drop her, but at least I learned the truth now."

See's that it was posted on Saturday

Saturday was 4/1/17

Hmmmmm......

:^)

 

[snook]

smh my guy

 

[sjb.dario]

Discussions and content here are kinda slow . Oh well.

Has there been anything new discovered for Palutena? Techs, neutral options, combos, etc. I haven't heard anything new, and I'm not sure if there are any discussions going on elsewhere (the Palutena discord server is probably having some).

 

[kmpyj]

Discussions and content here are kinda slow . Oh well.

Has there been anything new discovered for Palutena? Techs, neutral options, combos, etc. I haven't heard anything new, and I'm not sure if there are any discussions going on elsewhere (the Palutena discord server is probably having some).

None that I'm aware of. I think most, if not all of her tech options have been discovered already. There might be some neutral options and combos still undiscovered, but outside of that, she basically has a writer's block, or tech block to be precise.

Which isn't necessarily bad, it just means we have to improve upon what is already known.

 

[snook]

There's always something to discover, we just all suck. That's how I look at things lol.

Not really new but started to utilize a different angle when warp cancelling on bf, it's actually super satisfying to use in a match properly. Will upload a gif when I'm not lazy.

I do agree with you on the fact we have to improve on what we already know though. I feel like I have a really good understanding of how to play her properly but lack discipline and often fall into bad habits if things get bad. With other characters that's not so bad but if you're not using a top tier that can be pretty unforgiving.

 

[sjb.dario]

Just to make a topic to talk about:

My personal MU list.

All based on my experience and character knowledge. Criticisms, disagreements, and flame comments are welcome.

 

[kmpyj]

Just to make a topic to talk about:

My personal MU list.

All based on my experience and character knowledge. Criticisms, disagreements, and flame comments are welcome.

"....and flame comments are welcome"

Post that in the Zelda threads, and that's all you will get, lol.

My list looks kinda similar, but our worst MUs and best MUs are a tad different. I'm interested on how you do so well against Kirby. That hitbox of his make me want to vomit.

I made one a while back, but I haven't touched Smash in a while, so I kinda feel a bit rusty.

Spoiler

Not sure if things have changed or not, but this is how I felt about the roster around Xmas.