Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[JayWon]

From this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/palu...und-movement-discussion.388128/#post-18448014

I have an exercise/challenge for all of you guys to practice in training mode which combines all the ground movements I have mentioned in that post

Exercise/Challenge:
Dash forward -> Neutral Stop -> Single Jab x 2 -> Perfect Pivot Jab
Retreat Swagwalking into Perfect Pivot D-tilt then
Short Foxtrot Forward into immediate Long Foxtrot into
Delayed Dash Attack
Retreat Dash into Neutral stop Perfect Pivot Jab then
Taunt then
Dash Dance before you Dash forward Neutral Stop and then Dash backwards Neutral stop then
Swagwalk back and forth across stage into a Swagwalk grab
pummel, then proceed the usual Down-throw shenanigans

Note: All Attacks should be aimed in the forward direction. Try to make it smooth and continuous!

Everyone please practice and all individually record and share your results with us!

Also check this out!

"Palutena dittos in a nutshell"
http://instagram.com/p/ySiqLzonVY/

I have handful of other funny clips on that instagram page you should give a look as well! Follow me for more if you want!

 

[TheSqushiestManatee]

Just randomly wanted to say this. Palutena is so much freaking fun to play as, its absurd. I'm starting to use her more and more.

 

[faderpotater]

I love how many different play styles there are out there right now. I need to look into warp cancelling, see if it will help my struggling gimp/edge guarding game against heavies that are hard to kill up.

Talking about stages I am kind of blessed and cursed here in tally. I'm lucky because most people here love battlefield. I'm unlucky because at least at the tournament I went to they allow lots of counter picks with awful edges or just outright terrible gimmicks (at least IMO) I can understand lylat, even if I think the stage is awful. What I can't understand is delfino and castle siege. Delfino is filled with stupid areas and castle siege has walkoff and that awful transition phase.

 

[faderpotater]

From this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/palu...und-movement-discussion.388128/#post-18448014

I have an exercise/challenge for all of you guys to practice in training mode which combines all the ground movements I have mentioned in that post

Exercise/Challenge:
Dash forward
Neutral Stop -> Jab
Retreat Swagwalking into Perfect Pivot D-tilt then
Short Foxtrot Forward into immediate Long Foxtrot into
Delayed Dash Attack
Taunt then
Swagwalk back and forth across stage into a Swagwalk grab
then proceed to the usual Down-throw shenanigans

Try it and make sure to record and share with us!

Hmmm that could be fun. I don't have anything besides a phone to record with but I may try and take this challenge if I have the time.

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

Ledge canceled warp is quite fun.

Though, I can't manage to do a short Warp yet. Or ever.
Mastering that would really serve her well with ledge game.

 

[faderpotater]

Ok palutenas with lots of human experience out there, I wanted to ask you about how you deal with opponents who are really good at adapting. Until recently I have started easily landing kills with usmash and uair. I still struggle to kill on the sides without reading a roll or an empty dash and getting a fsmash. Either way I recently played my roommate in smash 4 again and my roommate is good. He has been playing smash since he was little and has a really good feel for the game. He is able to play melee, pm, and smash 4 at respectable levels.

So even though I still made the games close he would beat me 9 times out of 10 because he was able to read my tactics so well. He would pull of spot dodges that I didn't even know could be pulled off. He could get out of my aerial combos most times and he was able to powershield a good portion of my poke fairs and punish me where I though I was normally safe.

I know that the response should be to mix up my timings a bit. Don't always immediately go for the usmash or uair, bait out dodges, empty hop to bait shields then grab him. Even though I knew this seems like the answer I was still worried that the extra second of waiting would be too much and he could react by punishing me for not attacking. So I wanted to ask you guys how you have dealt with fighting really good players who can read their opponents like a book. Does waiting help? Should I mix up my game more by being more aggressive then switching to defensive and just keep changing how I am playing the match? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[meleebrawler]

All I can really say is just fall back on the moves that you know are
safe, like jab, Fair, Bair higher up, and maybe Dtilt until you're absolutely
sure you can land a grab or a power move.

Is he catching your warps too?

 

[faderpotater]

All I can really say is just fall back on the moves that you know are
safe, like jab, Fair, Bair higher up, and maybe Dtilt until you're absolutely
sure you can land a grab or a power move.

Is he catching your warps too?

Only when I get really predictable with them. I have started to warp on stage only when I see him jump out for the edge guard. Usually this is safe on most characters it seems. He hasn't managed to punish warping to the edge often.

 

[xnine]

So I wanted to ask you guys how you have dealt with fighting really good players who can read their opponents like a book. Does waiting help? Should I mix up my game more by being more aggressive then switching to defensive and just keep changing how I am playing the match? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't say I have a lot of experience against good players, but maybe I can help. I think you have the general idea that you should be mixing up your game, but it's very general. What I try to do is intentionally condition my opponent to some of my strings. For example, dthrow->nair is not guaranteed in any kind of way, but it forces an airdodge/jump, and that's enough. You keep doing it, and sometimes you delay your timing so that the end of nair still hits. And when push comes to shove, you dthrow->short hop fast fall->upsmash, and it will probably kill.

I try to mix up my game, but I do it knowing what I want to do as the better alternative. I've also been shield dashing back and forth a lot. I think it's really good for getting your opponent to move, and it looks cool as a plus.

 

[Masque]

I wouldn't say I have a lot of experience against good players, but maybe I can help. I think you have the general idea that you should be mixing up your game, but it's very general. What I try to do is intentionally condition my opponent to some of my strings. For example, dthrow->nair is not guaranteed in any kind of way, but it forces an airdodge/jump, and that's enough. You keep doing it, and sometimes you delay your timing so that the end of nair still hits. And when push comes to shove, you dthrow->short hop fast fall->upsmash, and it will probably kill.

I try to mix up my game, but I do it knowing what I want to do as the better alternative. I've also been shield dashing back and forth a lot. I think it's really good for getting your opponent to move, and it looks cool as a plus.

Great points, xnine! It's all about conditioning. If they're above the stage and you intercept their fall with an Uair, I can almost guarantee they will airdodge every time you jump at them from below from that point on. Fast fall an empty short hop or wait for the air dodge and do werk.

We, as human beings, are creatures of habit--a trait that works both for and against us. We're inclined to do repeat the same moves if they prove successful once, and people (generally) know to expect this. If you metaanalyze and counter the opponent's expected reaction, you'll see continued success. It's a lot easier said than done, but psychobabble aside, mixing up your approach will help.

 

[faderpotater]

Thanks everyone, I am going to start thinking of different moves I can use in different situations. I don't know why I didn't think of trying that first as I have actually done that before. I commonly punished people recovering from above the stage with usmash, once I noticed them getting used to that I would mix it up by booting them back off the stage with a foward air rather than going for the smash. Since I could initiate the forward air faster I would usually hit them before they planned on dodging the usmash.

 

[Zediwonder]

adapting is a progressive thing, so your friends will always be your toughest opponents cause they've played you the most, I knoew that too well from Brawl where I could not beat my friend playing Olimar against Toon Link purely because we knew everything we'd do and Olimar has the advantage in that MU.

You'll learn to adapt yourself through experience, noticing your trends will teach you to stop them. Just watch how you play a match and you'll see how predictable you can be and once you've seen yourself outside of actually playing you'll know not to do it next time. Eventually you should be able to tell when your opponent is expecting you to do something and changing it up to counteract their expectation. Don't forget you can use them adapting in your favour, once they get used to it and expect it you can punish it with a simple mix up. There is a kind of process to playing all characters in Smash Bros but deviating from what others tell you to do and creating your own way of playing the character is the best way to adapt.

What I recommend doing: Save a replay of any match where you feel your getting read too easily or their just adapting to you and watch it, you should be able to see why it's happening, I did this myself when I was having a lot of trouble with my friends Diddy Kong and now our win loss ratio is more 50/50 than it was before where I was losing almost every match.

 

[Death Arcana]

TP Saki has an excellent Palutena
loved watching that match vs guilty
gonna go ahead and steal a couple things from that

 

[faderpotater]

TP Saki has an excellent Palutena
loved watching that match vs guilty
gonna go ahead and steal a couple things from that

That was indeed awesome. The pros are still definitely on a whole other level of control. I was surprised uair was killing in the 90's on falcon. I rarely get uair kills below 110-115. At least that is how it seems when I play. Think a good dose of watching replays of myself like zediwonder said may be in order to really see what percent I am hitting my moves at in truth. Rather than just the quick glances I get after they land usually.

 

[JayWon]

Hmmm that could be fun. I don't have anything besides a phone to record with but I may try and take this challenge if I have the time.

I updated/added more to the Exercise for everyone to try and practice. I recommend to practice the harder mechanics individually before you try to connect them together smoothly. I believe the real benefit of this exercise is the fact you are intentionally doing each of the movement and actively being aware of what to do next. This essentially is training/familiarizing your mind to plan and be purposeful with these movements and then actually being able to follow up by actually doing it. You are not fighting a real person or an attacking AI on this exercise but while you are doing the exercise try to imagine why you might be doing these movements.


Here's the exercise again for convenience:

Dash forward -> Neutral Stop -> Single Jab x 2 -> Perfect Pivot Jab
Retreat Swagwalking into Perfect Pivot D-tilt then
Short Foxtrot Forward into immediate Long Foxtrot into
Delayed Dash Attack
Retreat Dash into Neutral stop Perfect Pivot Jab then
Taunt then
Dash Dance before you Dash forward Neutral Stop and then Dash backwards Neutral stop then
Swagwalk back and forth across stage into a Swagwalk grab
pummel, then proceed the usual Down-throw shenanigans

Note: All Attacks should be aimed in the forward direction. Try to make it smooth and continuous!

Everyone please practice and all individually record and share your results with us!

 

[Ultresmasher5]

Robin form Fire Emblem Awakening would be a cool magic user and he could use his sword for melee attacks

how did you-

 

[Admiral Pit]

After some matches today with 2 ppl (one that's in here), I'm likely to give up on the game altogether. I don't have fun losing or dealing with generic telegraphed combos, stress and such. I like Palutena, and I would devote my time to make her stronger, but I don't think I can anymore, and I'm no good anymore (I think I am terrible now). While I had similar thoughts in Brawl before, I at least kept at it making Pit good, but here, with the different mechanics and some braindead combos that we have to face and don't get me started on top tiers (Ban Diddy), I don't think I can be of any help anymore.
I apologize for my downgrading words and rant, but I'm nearly convinced that this is the end for me. It's like I don't have fun anymore, I lose more than usual and towards more causes than my anti top tier routines (again, the braindead combos). Sigh, I'll keep trying for a bit longer because I love Palutena so much, but if I can't keep going, chances are I may quit or just be casual and enjoy customs, since the last thing I wanna do is sellout to a higher up.

Sigh, for now, healing in a hot spring, hoping that I'll ever be good one day.

 

[Saki-]

I'm no pro but glad you guys enjoyed my gameplay at KiT. My carpool is prioritizing their car over a chance at getting to play at Apex(which is very responsible) so my next big jig will be at Final Round.

 

[JayWon]

After some matches today with 2 ppl (one that's in here), I'm likely to give up on the game altogether. I don't have fun losing or dealing with generic telegraphed combos, stress and such. I like Palutena, and I would devote my time to make her stronger, but I don't think I can anymore, and I'm no good anymore (I think I am terrible now). While I had similar thoughts in Brawl before, I at least kept at it making Pit good, but here, with the different mechanics and some braindead combos that we have to face and don't get me started on top tiers (Ban Diddy), I don't think I can be of any help anymore.
I apologize for my downgrading words and rant, but I'm nearly convinced that this is the end for me. It's like I don't have fun anymore, I lose more than usual and towards more causes than my anti top tier routines (again, the braindead combos). Sigh, I'll keep trying for a bit longer because I love Palutena so much, but if I can't keep going, chances are I may quit or just be casual and enjoy customs, since the last thing I wanna do is sellout to a higher up.

Sigh, for now, healing in a hot spring, hoping that I'll ever be good one day.

Try For Fun! It's really fun after you get past the OMG THIS STAGE IS BULL**** and OMG THAT ITEM IS BULL**** and learn all the quirks of the stage and use it for your advantage and accept that Items in this mode are no joke and here to stay. Take advantage over Palutena's speed and abuse and race after the item and grab it first. On the 3DS I literally played For Fun ONCE, way too laggy, and I was more focused on being very good and obsessively trying to beat all the challenges. But after the Wii U version since my sister can play with me now, I played For Fun as much as I have been playing For Glory. Is it sometimes "wow *shakes head*"? Sure, but getting rekt from a Final Smash isn't salt inducing compared to being rekt on For Glory by Diddy Hoo Hahs. Is it unfair and ****ing bull****? I mean not really, everyone is dealing with the same Stage hazards and random item drops as you are. Time mode isn't that bad either. If you are like a character like jigglypuff, there is no need to be in front line of the battle, just float around and try to steal kills when you see an opponent with high percentage. I take For Fun mode very seriously and find it satisfies the "competitive" side just as much as For Glory. Like I spent a full day in training mode JUST messing around with items. Screw Attack is awesome for Palutena GET IT! Jump, Jump, U-air. get rekt. Back shield? YES PLEASE. Palutena + B-air spacing with Back shield feels empowering! OH NO he got the hammer? Counter that ****. Beehive? Purposely attack it and you can spam counter and you are a constant invincible hit box.

I main Pikachu as well and always feel more confident winning with Pikachu on For Glory, but in For Fun, Palutena just has the right tools to deal and dominate among all that fun chaos.

What can you expect on the skill/type of people you'll play? ALL SORTS. It's not saturated with little kids that spam flare blitz. People who are really effing good play it too and it's actually quite fun to play very skilled people on stages like Orbital Gate Assault. You'd be surprise how developed the meta is for item usage, and be surprised on the things people do with stage quirks.

Ironically, one of the last things I had to teach myself was how to enjoy the game. Open up your mind, get it out of the box and learn how to have fun. Definitely mess around with new characters in For Fun as well!

 

[Admiral Pit]

Try For Fun! It's really fun after you get past the OMG THIS STAGE IS BULL**** and OMG THAT ITEM IS BULL**** and learn all the quirks of the stage and use it for your advantage and accept that Items in this mode are no joke and here to stay. Take advantage over Palutena's speed and abuse and race after the item and grab it first. On the 3DS I literally played For Fun ONCE, way too laggy, and I was more focused on being very good and obsessively trying to beat all the challenges. But after the Wii U version since my sister can play with me now, I played For Fun as much as I have been playing For Glory. Is it sometimes "wow *shakes head*"? Sure, but getting rekt from a Final Smash isn't salt inducing compared to being rekt on For Glory by Diddy Hoo Hahs. Is it unfair and ****ing bull****? I mean not really, everyone is dealing with the same Stage hazards and random item drops as you are. Time mode isn't that bad either. If you are like a character like jigglypuff, there is no need to be in front line of the battle, just float around and try to steal kills when you see an opponent with high percentage. I take For Fun mode very seriously and find it satisfies the "competitive" side just as much as For Glory. Like I spent a full day in training mode JUST messing around with items. Screw Attack is awesome for Palutena GET IT! Jump, Jump, U-air. get rekt. Back shield? YES PLEASE. Palutena + B-air spacing with Back shield feels empowering! OH NO he got the hammer? Counter that ****. Beehive? Purposely attack it and you can spam counter and you are a constant invincible hit box.

What can you expect on the skill/type of people you'll play? ALL SORTS. It's not saturated with little kids that spam flare blitz. People who are really effing good play it too and it's actually quite fun to play very skilled people on stages like Orbital Gate Assault. You'd be surprise how developed the meta is for item usage, and be surprised on the things people do with stage quirks.

Ironically, one of the last things I had to teach myself was how to enjoy the game. Open up your mind, get it out of the box and learn how to have fun.

While I'm used to items... or was back in the Brawl days thanks to Glidetossing and Pit being good with em, I can't really think of it in this game. Plus I can't risk the lag, not after a match was so laggy, that about 3-5 minutes passed, and the timer wasn't even down to 1 min yet, and I had to DC and suffer a 10-min penalty. I just get too angry easily and can't tolerate it. I may be competitive, but it's just not my thing. But I'm surprised you thought of those nice item-based things for Pally. It makes me miss the stuff I could do with Brawl Pit. (Ban Diddy btw)

Well, it would be interesting to see some items be used, I just don't have that in me much like I did with Brawl's stuff (excluding OP'd bumpers and fans). I think it was the tricks that made me interested. The closest I'll go to non-traditional "fun" is with customs, equips or not, and Pally's good with custom equips, well, at least the one with the Crash Run effect on it.

Fun just isn't my thing. I guess I was hurt so much by the rude people of the community, bullies, trolls, and offline elitists alike, that I manifested this hotheaded anti top tier personality. Sigh, while I have fun with Palutena, I think it's the tiers and braindead combos that hurt me the most, not to mention rolls being so much better and such. I can still try, but getting past it won't be an easy task.

 

[meleebrawler]

"If you step into the ring believing you will fail, you will. Believe in yourself!" -Ryu from Street Fighter

In all seriousness, braindead combos are a part of nearly every fighting game.
Even in Melee there was Fox's waveshining and Falco's shine-dair strings, in Brawl
there simply wasn't many options for such combos due to almost nonexistent hitstun
(unless your name was Meta Knight), but there were chaingrabs instead on many higher tiers,
and those were even more braindead. And as disproportionate as Diddy's reward may be in this
game, at least he can't throw bananas at you repeatedly until you die.

Like @ JayWon said, it's also important to remember that this is really just a game.
Palutena is a fictional character that has no attachment to you or anyone that plays her,
so the only person that you're letting down by losing is yourself. Even then, you shouldn't feel as if you HAVE to win
to be worthwhile. You and other people can learn just as much, if not more from your losses; heck,
even amiibos get more experience from losing rather than winning.

Finally, the most important aspect of playing a game is that you have fun doing it.
You can love a character to death, but if you simply don't have fun playing as them
then you really shouldn't. I don't play the Links despite enjoying Zelda games and seeing him as
a badass. And if you honestly, REALLY feel that you'll have more fun playing with one of the
"top tiers" don't let the fear of being insulted or looked down upon deter you. Only you can decide
how you enjoy your game.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeWtfq2HLCE

The fair kill at 120% was a huge deja vu. I remember a palutena killing a falco at that percent give or take a couple off to the right of smashville/town and city within the last couple weeks...

Anyone know? Is this video just a reupload of the one I saw?

Edit: Yea ok falco kills right after with bair... i remember this haha

 

[Masque]

I'm no pro but glad you guys enjoyed my gameplay at KiT. My carpool is prioritizing their car over a chance at getting to play at Apex(which is very responsible) so my next big jig will be at Final Round.

Very solid Palutena play. Good job putting in werk for our goddess!

 

[xnine]

Sigh, while I have fun with Palutena, I think it's the tiers and braindead combos that hurt me the most, not to mention rolls being so much better and such. I can still try, but getting past it won't be an easy task.

Have you thought about picking up a 2nd or 3rd character? I play jiggypuff and pikachu, and I find the change in playstyle is both rewarding and refreshing. What I learn from playing my other characters ends up helping my Palutena, and vice-versa. It helps that resting people and quick-attacking people is extremely fun. Maybe there's a character out there that you'll click with, you just gotta find em!

 

[Zediwonder]

Personally I'll take my friend playing Diddy any day over him playing Ice climbers in Brawl so I guess I have a high tolerance for bull****. I dropped off the competitive scene when I first got into it like 5 years ago for Brawl and got back in it for Smash 4, it was difficult switching from wii remote over to GBC but I'll never look back now.

Competitive play isn't for everyone, I got angry and salty really easily back in high school when I was playing Brawl, I absolutely hated losing and yeah I dropped off the scene because me and competition didn't work. Feeling the limitations of your character is bound to be discouraging, especially when high tier trash is involved because balancing 50 characters is hard. The unfortunate truth is that you have to play the high tier characters to win consistently competitively that's why the Melee cast is only actually 5 characters. I'm lucky cause we're still running customs over here, if the trend stays with customs off everywhere else I think eventually we're going to adopt it as well, I know a Palutena player who will drop her immediately if that happens. Let's just pray that customs will be allowed in future, our tournaments have been great with them and no two finals have been the same and it's way better than "Oh look it's mew2king playing fox again" and if customs aren't allowed it will be "Oh look it's jtails and mew2king both playing Diddy".

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

Huh, I just noticed that Warp has less ending lag if I teleport towards the stage when half her body is below the stage level.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Huh, I just noticed that Warp has less ending lag if I teleport towards the stage when half her body is below the stage level.

Interesting. I guess there's less "momentum" or velocity going downwards since she's going upwards? That'd be pretty useful.

 

[Masque]

Huh, I just noticed that Warp has less ending lag if I teleport towards the stage when half her body is below the stage level.

Maybe she lands on the stage midway through the teleport, thus negating the landing lag at the end? That's really cool!

 

[Zediwonder]

So practicing perfect pivots I noticed that it was way easier for me to do it while holding the thumbstick as if it was an arcade stick. I don't want to completely change the way I hold a controller for one arguably useless spacing AT and trying to hold the controller normally and doing it actually causes me to strain my arm just to get the motion off. I want to see if the meta evolve into PP or if PPing gets left behind or only certain characters make use of it, I'm genuinely curious but I don't know right now.

Seems to me that doing the input while playing is extra uneeded motions for a bit of extra space and if I have time to do the input then I have time to do several other better things. JayWon seems to think it's a good tool but I just can't see it being viable like wavedashing in melee, please, if you think I'm entirely incorrect show me some footage of a match, any character, not just Palutena (though I'd prefer palutena for obvious reasons) where PPing is put to use effectively and efficiently I REALLY want to know if it's worthwhile.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

So practicing perfect pivots I noticed that it was way easier for me to do it while holding the thumbstick as if it was an arcade stick. I don't want to completely change the way I hold a controller for one arguably useless spacing AT and trying to hold the controller normally and doing it actually causes me to strain my arm just to get the motion off. I want to see if the meta evolve into PP or if PPing gets left behind or only certain characters make use of it, I'm genuinely curious but I don't know right now.

Seems to me that doing the input while playing is extra uneeded motions for a bit of extra space and if I have time to do the input then I have time to do several other better things. JayWon seems to think it's a good tool but I just can't see it being viable like wavedashing in melee, please, if you think I'm entirely incorrect show me some footage of a match, any character, not just Palutena (though I'd prefer palutena for obvious reasons) where PPing is put to use effectively and efficiently I REALLY want to know if it's worthwhile.

Have you just tried flicking the control stick, letting your thumb come off the stick? I can do it pretty consistently on 3DS and even easier on GC controller.

Retreating jab alone is really good for stopping dash approaches. Imagine them coming in to grab or dash attack, but you move slightly further back but enough to cause them to miss their target. It makes them have to be a lot more careful in approaching that way.

Or maybe you and your opponent are facing each other, right next to each other. You see him spot dodge, so you PP behind him and jab and grab him for the back throw off stage.

It's not huuuge but a couple small advantages here and there could really help.

 

[Zediwonder]

Have you just tried flicking the control stick, letting your thumb come off the stick? I can do it pretty consistently on 3DS and even easier on GC controller.

Retreating jab alone is really good for stopping dash approaches. Imagine them coming in to grab or dash attack, but you move slightly further back but enough to cause them to miss their target. It makes them have to be a lot more careful in approaching that way.

Or maybe you and your opponent are facing each other, right next to each other. You see him spot dodge, so you PP behind him and jab and grab him for the back throw off stage.

It's not huuuge but a couple small advantages here and there could really help.

I'll keep practicing and see if I can make use of it, I can do it consistently it's just the only way I can do it normally holding the controller I have to really push myself to reach the speed needed for it. Practice mode I can get it pretty much every time but the moment it comes to an actual match I can't since I kind of need to prep myself just to PP.

 

[Death Arcana]

someone help me with the diddy MU before I
DTHROW UAIR MY CONTROLLER

 

[Zediwonder]

someone help me with the diddy MU before I
DTHROW UAIR MY CONTROLLER

Bair and dthrow nair are your only friends

 

[Death Arcana]

this psychotic piece of wacko called diddy
is just unbelievable man, he can force things to happen
that no other can do, ugh
i almost raged when a damn banana hit my full shield and i tripped at the last weekly.
no johns blah blah i know...
oh and we got some trolls going "HOO HAH" in my scene
everytime man every ****ing time
/rant

 

[Lavani]

Huh, I just noticed that Warp has less ending lag if I teleport towards the stage when half her body is below the stage level.

Looks like she lands the instant she reappears instead of going through her reappearing animation first.

Interesting.

So practicing perfect pivots I noticed that it was way easier for me to do it while holding the thumbstick as if it was an arcade stick. I don't want to completely change the way I hold a controller for one arguably useless spacing AT and trying to hold the controller normally and doing it actually causes me to strain my arm just to get the motion off. I want to see if the meta evolve into PP or if PPing gets left behind or only certain characters make use of it, I'm genuinely curious but I don't know right now.

Seems to me that doing the input while playing is extra uneeded motions for a bit of extra space and if I have time to do the input then I have time to do several other better things. JayWon seems to think it's a good tool but I just can't see it being viable like wavedashing in melee, please, if you think I'm entirely incorrect show me some footage of a match, any character, not just Palutena (though I'd prefer palutena for obvious reasons) where PPing is put to use effectively and efficiently I REALLY want to know if it's worthwhile.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I only have 3DS), but the C-stick allows for easy perfect pivots, no?

For example, with tilt stick I believe gives a perfect pivot jab, which if true would be both easy and useful for Palutena.

aMSa uses it quite a bit with Greninja, and being able to perfect pivot Greninja's tilts makes things like this possible:

 

[Zediwonder]

Eh Diddy has a lot going for him no doubt, try to punish his fsmash, nope dtilt, try to punish whiffed fair, nope dtilt, grab Diddy, nope dtilt.

It was really difficult for me to verse my friend playing Diddy for a long time, your best tools are jab 1 and funnily your dash attack. Jab 1 stops pretty much everything Diddy has, with his side special you can also autoreticle it to stop it and you MIGHT be able to punish it but be wary of dtilts. I don't think I need to mention how strong Diddy's dtilt is, it's hitbox exists before the move actually comes out, numerous times I've had Diddy held in a grab then got knocked out of it by a dtilt somehow. It is possible to beat Diddy but it's an uphill battle.

Also I didn't actually know you could perfect pivot like that, thanks, like wow that makes it so much easier it's ridiculous. I don't know about jabs though, cstick perfectly diagonal is tricky, I can rarely do it and I don't want to switch my cstick to attacks because I don't want to be accidentally ftilting or utilting with palutena. I only did it on my new 3ds which has the kind of laptop touchpad cstick and doesn't seem to do diagonals so I can't really test that out.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Diddy's cheap like I said. I just rather ban him, but I said this a hundred times. Personally I'm gonna avoid fighting him, permanently, or until he one day gets the nerfs he deserves.

Idk what else to say about this, and I apologize. But what can I do? As for other things, I'm trying to expand the uses of Reflect Barrier again. I know we went through its ability to knock opponents outta shield with its "damaging" hitbox. And Jab > Reflect is a potential application at higher percents. my next step is wondering how decent it outta shield is when your opponent's at close range.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

someone help me with the diddy MU before I
DTHROW UAIR MY CONTROLLER

At low percents (starting at 0%), you want to hold the direction Diddy Kong is facing so that he can only get 1 upair follow-up. At death percents, you hold towards Diddy (opposite direction he is facing) to avoid everything. Then you immediately jump; never airdodge which gives your opponent the chance to read you and hit you out of it. At higher but not death percents, you want to take an upair (you should only be taking one upair still) to stale the move when it comes time to kill, so keep holding the direction Diddy Kong is facing.

Also, when you're at death percent, and Diddy Kong is at low percent, I think Diddy has the guaranteed upair follow-up because of his lack of rage influence to send you farther from his dthrow, so the best thing to do is to give him enough damage to have the ability to avoid his dthrow follow-ups due to rage factor, and avoid getting grabbed as best you can before then.

One more thing, be careful whenever Diddy Kong grabs you near the ledge with his back to it. He can opt to mix your DI for the down throw and back throw you for the kill instead. It's a scary position to be in and it puts you in a 50-50 situation that can be the difference of keeping or losing a stock, and ultimately, the game.

This is just in dealing with Diddy Kong's grab game. Hope this helps. If you want other information on the MU, let me know.

If you want, we can play sometime and I can give you some Diddy practice if it'll help you play against the Diddy Kong players in your region. /2rupees

 

[kmpyj]

Tbh, I didn't know there was a problem with Diddy, nor did I have a problem with Diddy until after hearing others talking about him in like mid December-ish. I was completely obvious to his potential, and thought of him as just a "good character".

But after hearing about him, then that fear factor popped into my mind whenever I saw a Diddy player. I would start thinking "What is he going to do? What is he going to do? Is he going to grab me? Or is he going to zone me out with his bananas? What am I going to do?" After I started think that, then I started thinking "I am playing as Palutena, this isn't going to be good for me. I need to switch to Mario".

Right there in my mind I already gave up on the fight before it even started. The moment I believe I can't win with the character I am playing as, is the moment I lose. Even if I managed to win the match, mentally I lost that match because I didn't have faith in my character.

So, after realizing this a few weeks ago, I decided to play as Palutena, and only Palutena. That's how I got where I am with Mario. I needed to learn how to deal with pressure. With Mario it's easy, but with Palutena, I start panicking. I had to get out of that if I ever wanted to be good with her.

Today, after my Palutena only training, I think I created a Goddess. Making good use of her mechanics, certain moves some people say are useless, and her edge game, I think I am much more confident against characters that use to give me a hard time.

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

In all seriousness, braindead combos are a part of nearly every fighting game.
.

Brain dead combo is one thing, but brain dead KO string is just stupid. :v