Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Zediwonder]

You can get out of the dthrow uair combo with DI, just like you can for Palutena's, it doesn't even bother me any more because it rarely if ever hits me once I got used to DIing it. What bothers me with Diddy is how hard he is to punish, he's really fast and a lot of his moves don't have much recovery which is why dtilt is so powerful because it's basically a better version of his jab he can start from any move.

I don't think Diddy should be banned though, he's not as powerful once you learn how to play against him, same with how Little Mac was when the game first came out, he's almost as easy to gimp as little mac as well because the rocket barrels are so volatile and sometimes he'll hit the ledge at the wrong angle and just KO himself.

 

[meleebrawler]

Brain dead combo is one thing, but brain dead KO string is just stupid. :v

Well, we have a Dthrow-Uair kill combo that's arguably more reliable than Diddy's, buuut....
The above phrase was somewhat greninja'd by @ Zediwonder .

Following what @ kmpyj said, there's nothing wrong with being apprehensive
about facing a top tier, since their threat is very real (though ideally almost every character
should produce some of this). But if you just shut down mentally when you see one, you have
basically convinced yourself that you won't do better no matter what like a DBZ villain.

This may sound harsh, but unless you have irrefutable evidence, calling for bans
is almost like whining about a game being difficult and having no difficulty select.
You don't want to put in the effort to do better at the game yourself, you want instead for
the game to let up on you. Ban-calling can also be seen as way of dodging responsibility for
losing a match; a john. It's a natural part of our human nature and ego to let loose our rage
for losing, and since we can't feasibly do that to the person that beat us due to lack of any rational
argument other than "he was better than me" which a lot of us have trouble admitting, we turn towards
their means of winning instead. A way of doing better in future matches without putting in too much
extra effort: discourage people from using the things that beat us.

Finally, even if the ban-callers get their wish, chances are the next runner-up in effectiveness
will end up just as hated as the previous one and eventually banned as well, and so on and so
forth until the game's competitiveness dies.

 

[Zediwonder]

This might be a good time to call back to Metaknight in brawl, Metaknight was OP, like no doubts about it he was by far the best character in the game and he got banned for a time. When he got banned Ice Climber players had no competition and just chain grabbed their way too the top because it was ridiculously powerful and Metaknight got unbanned to deal with them.

Right now the same thing is happening in Smash 4, Diddy isn't Metaknight, he's not that good but if we ban Diddy everyone starts complaining and losing to Sheik or hell, Mario or Luigi who have really good early game combo's. It's just like @ meleebrawler said once we ban one we have to start banning others. There's no way to perfectly balance a fighting game, every tournament for every fighting game you only see the top tier characters being played because they get results. FORTUNATELY Smash 4 hasn't had a lot of time to stew and tier lists and such aren't completely solid and set, we're all still learning how to perfectly utilize what our characters have to offer, it's just that with characters like Diddy that potential is a lot more obvious from the start. The fortunate thing with "OP" characters being found is that everyone learns that match up and how to deal with it like with Little Mac who also had complaints of being OP at release, right now I know the Diddy match up pretty good and can deal with Diddy, I don't know the sheik match up however and Sheik is really difficult for me to beat and so forth.

Right now without customs the scene is already getting stale, even Aerolink is playing Diddy at tournaments alongside their Palutena, I'm almost certain that the top 8 of Apex is going to be Diddy and Sheiks mostly. I almost hope it is just so the community see's how much customs moves are actually needed for the competitive longevity of this game so it doesn't just stale like brawl did and everyone once again goes back to melee.

 

[Chandeelure]

A stupid question.

In a Pit vs. Palutena match, who helps Pit with the Power of Flight?

 

[M]

A stupid question.

In a Pit vs. Palutena match, who helps Pit with the Power of Flight?

Palutena. Out of pity......for Pitty.

 

[Rashid]

Plot twist: it's actually Pseudo-Palutena he's fighting.

 

[Zediwonder]

Now Pit players have someone to blame when they don't sweet spot the ledge.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

@ AeroLink_the_SoulMaster

Wow awesome insight, thanks a lot! Will be trying to think of these kinds of things in general more now.

 

[kmpyj]

What if, Palutena made Diddy strong for a challenge?

 

[Rashid]

Does Palutena have any fast aerials/specials that she can use to break out of things like jab setups (oh man, the irony), utilt autocombos, etc? Assuming custom moves are taken into consideration. It feels like Celestial Fireworks would be the best, but I don't know what frame the intangibility starts at. @ Lavani ?

 

[Lavani]

Nair starts frame 5, which is the same speed as Ness'. Bair's invincibility starts frame 3, but I'd imagine Palutena's facing in such situations as well as the hitbox location don't make it very good for that sort of thing (maybe someone that actually plays the character can prove me wrong though).

I haven't looked at Celestial Fireworks, if it actually has invincibility that's news to me. I'll mess around with it.

Random aside, I fought a good Palutena on FG for the first time last night. I sorely underestimated how good her jab is, the range on that thing is crazy.

EDIT: Well I sure didn't notice all that blinking at the start of this move until now. Conservatively I'm going to guess frame 6 intangibility, but I'll test more formally in a moment.

EDIT2: I'm a little freaked out that I actually eyeballed that correctly. Intangibility lasts 6-27(28?)f.

 

[Zediwonder]

Nair starts frame 5, which is the same speed as Ness'. Bair's invincibility starts frame 3, but I'd imagine Palutena's facing in such situations as well as the hitbox location don't make it very good for that sort of thing (maybe someone that actually plays the character can prove me wrong though).

I haven't looked at Celestial Fireworks, if it actually has invincibility that's news to me. I'll mess around with it.

Random aside, I fought a good Palutena on FG for the first time last night. I sorely underestimated how good her jab is, the range on that thing is crazy.

EDIT: Well I sure didn't notice all that blinking at the start of this move until now. Conservatively I'm going to guess frame 6 intangibility, but I'll test more formally in a moment.

EDIT2: I'm a little freaked out that I actually eyeballed that correctly. Intangibility lasts 6-27(28?)f.

How do you get this hitbox frame data information, is it just training mode at the slowest speed?

 

[Lavani]

How do you get this hitbox frame data information, is it just training mode at the slowest speed?

This for most things, otherwise I go through 60fps recordings frame-by-frame for things like Celestial Fireworks' intangibility.

You can't do frame advancing with 1/4 Hold L for accurate results, the game actually adjusts for the slower speed and ends up displaying more frames than what would normally occur (this is what I did back when I posted that gif of jab trying to prove it was 11f and didn't realize at the time that it wasn't an accurate method).

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Here's hoping that the Palutena players at Apex do well! Make our goddess proud.

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

Gee, I just remembered that you could do USmash out of Shield.

Derp me.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Omg uprising was such a good game. It took me less than a moth to finish it. But what do I play nowwww.? And why do I feel Ike this is the only good game?
Side note: Ali Hillis did a better job voicing Palutena

 

[Nabbitnator]

Blue's palutena took 4th today at the break. I still refuse to think that she is bad with everything she has.

 

[Macarena of Time]

From the matches I've been playing in FG in the last couple of days, Palutena feels like a really solid character. I feel excited about learning all of her match-ups and the like.

 

[Zediwonder]

Blue's palutena took 4th today at the break. I still refuse to think that she is bad with everything she has.

When I first started playing Palutena I felt she was low tier but over time I realized it was really me who was low tier.

 

[JayWon]

Wait so what frame is her jab?

 

[kmpyj]

When I first started playing Palutena I felt she was low tier but over time I realized it was really me who was low tier.

Yeah, I felt the same too. She was and still is very different from the rest of the roster. And I had it bad because I was too use to Mario. But over time I got use to her. Now I love her.

 

[Maraphy]

Wait so what frame is her jab?

7-8 I think; not spectacular as far as jabs go but it's got priority and range

 

[BluePikmin11]

People are currently extracting files from the Wii U data, and one of them happens to be from Palutena's guidance:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/supersmashbrosforwiiu/sheet/65140/
You might find some new avatars to use now.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

People are currently extracting files from the Wii U data, and one of them happens to be from Palutena's guidance:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/supersmashbrosforwiiu/sheet/65140/
You might find some new avatars to use now.

But...those are just their entire table of expressions from uprising, now in reverse. Not that it's bad, but yeah

 

[Djent]

So assuming Link's jab infinite on Palutena from 11% doesn't get patched out of the game, are we still viable?

EDIT: Might not be an infinte, i.e. I am dumb carry on.

 

[Rashid]

I wouldn't worry about it. Palutena and Link are both generally heavy zoners, and being directly in front of him on the ground is undesirable even before the discovery (his jab is way too good). Think of it more as Link becoming more viable than Palutena being less viable. After all, he's the center of the "affected" matchups, not Palutena.

 

[Lavani]

I'm still not entirely convinced that the jab loop can't be escaped with SDI, but I can't exactly test it myself on 3DS. But yeah, it's more Link getting better than Palutena getting worse; Jigglypuff and Samus are the only characters Link can't jab loop, so if that actually invalidated characters we'd have a new and shocking top tier.

 

[F.u.j.i.n Souls 2]

LeT me try to post this again without getting bannedT...(Aerolink sis was that you???)

Here are my matches from Apex that I was able to record.


HBC | Scary(Sheik) vs Fujin(Lady Palutena) Apex 2015 Money Match



APEX 2015 Pools 6WX(Sonic) vs Fujin (Paletuna) game 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4-G5CTmDs

First time fighting a Sonic, so I expected it not to go well.
Sonic is really good in this game, def a MU I need to work on and learn.

HBC | Scary(Sheik) vs Fujin(Lady Palutena) Apex 2015 Money Match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKkRVoECohY

Fun money match I did with HBC | Scary at apex, he helped me a lot with this match up, because I got no Sheiks in my area.

Dat grenade at the end tho >>>>>

 

[faderpotater]

Urg I haven't gotten to play barely at all this last week. I wasn't able to see much of apex either. :/ last time I played my friends was obsessed with beating my R.O.B (who isn't even my second) and he never did it so I haven't gotten practice recently. Here's to hoping this weekend is better!
Oh also I found a good ness player in my area and got wrecked by him. Ness is weird, he has so much range (at least his fair feels like it does). Definitely need to play that mu whenever I get a chance

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

Ye should avoid using Auto Reticle against Sheik or SOnic. Or anyone that got fast aerial movement or crouching dashes. They'll just get past it and punish yer face. Even for edgeguarding, it doesn't bode well against dem people.

 

[Macchiato]

Wait can dash attack stop the KO punch?

 

[faderpotater]

Wait can dash attack stop the KO punch?

Yep it has invincibility. Its a gamble if they don't use it when you dash attack, but if they do you beat them.

 

[Macchiato]

Yep it has invincibility. Its a gamble if they don't use it when you dash attack, but if they do you beat them.

OMG. Wow


I'm scared about what's gonna happen when pallytunas amiibo comes out. She's one of the most detailed fighters and due to production costs per amiibo and mass production, I'm scared how she'll turn out. Also I'm scared that her amiibo will be sold out before it even hit stores. Ugh

 

[Maraphy]

At low percents (starting at 0%), you want to hold the direction Diddy Kong is facing so that he can only get 1 upair follow-up. At death percents, you hold towards Diddy (opposite direction he is facing) to avoid everything. Then you immediately jump; never airdodge which gives your opponent the chance to read you and hit you out of it. At higher but not death percents, you want to take an upair (you should only be taking one upair still) to stale the move when it comes time to kill, so keep holding the direction Diddy Kong is facing.

Also, when you're at death percent, and Diddy Kong is at low percent, I think Diddy has the guaranteed upair follow-up because of his lack of rage influence to send you farther from his dthrow, so the best thing to do is to give him enough damage to have the ability to avoid his dthrow follow-ups due to rage factor, and avoid getting grabbed as best you can before then.

One more thing, be careful whenever Diddy Kong grabs you near the ledge with his back to it. He can opt to mix your DI for the down throw and back throw you for the kill instead. It's a scary position to be in and it puts you in a 50-50 situation that can be the difference of keeping or losing a stock, and ultimately, the game.

This is just in dealing with Diddy Kong's grab game. Hope this helps. If you want other information on the MU, let me know.

If you want, we can play sometime and I can give you some Diddy practice if it'll help you play against the Diddy Kong players in your region. /2rupees

Thanks for this Aerolink! : 0

For clarification, what would be the percentages to watch out for in the matchup (with and without rage, if you have that information memorized) ?

 

[faderpotater]

OMG. Wow


I'm scared about what's gonna happen when pallytunas amiibo comes out. She's one of the most detailed fighters and due to production costs per amiibo and mass production, I'm scared how she'll turn out. Also I'm scared that her amiibo will be sold out before it even hit stores. Ugh

Yeah I was going to get the pit amiibo because I thought it would be funny as a palutena main, but I took to long and the only ones available were like 30-40 dollars and I was like ehhhhhh don't need one that bad.

 

[Masque]

I'm scared about what's gonna happen when pallytunas amiibo comes out. She's one of the most detailed fighters and due to production costs per amiibo and mass production, I'm scared how she'll turn out. Also I'm scared that her amiibo will be sold out before it even hit stores. Ugh

For what it's worth, though, Shulk's design is extremely intricate but his amiibo still turned out great, so I'm remaining hopeful that our goddess will also receive a fittingly immaculate treatment!

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Thanks for this Aerolink! : 0

For clarification, what would be the percentages to watch out for in the matchup (with and without rage, if you have that information memorized) ?

At around 100% and Diddy at 0%-30% is dangerous for Palutena getting grabbed.

 

[Masque]

Also, I was playing a Pac-Man on FG last night. He dropped a hydrant as he was falling back to the stage, and when I Usmashed the hydrant, Pac ended up taking damage while he was already at the very top of the screen (i.e. ostensibly outside of Usmash's normal range). Maybe the very tip of the light column hit him or something, it seemed as though the windbox (waterbox?) properties somehow extended the hitbox of the Usmash itself. The stage was Luigi's Mansion Omega, if that makes any difference.

 

[Rashid]

Also, I was playing a Pac-Man on FG last night. He dropped a hydrant as he was falling back to the stage, and when I Usmashed the hydrant, Pac ended up taking damage while he was already at the very top of the screen (i.e. ostensibly outside of Usmash's normal range). Maybe the very tip of the light column hit him or something, it seemed as though the windbox (waterbox?) properties somehow extended the hitbox of the Usmash itself. The stage was Luigi's Mansion Omega, if that makes any difference.

Do you have a replay of this? I'm a Pac-main and this sounds interesting.

 

[Masque]

Do you have a replay of this? I'm a Pac-main and this sounds interesting.

I didn't save it, sadly, but I'd love to try to recreate the situation!