Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Is this happening online?

Online and offline, yes. And I do think the stage designs have a lot to do with me warping to the wrong place. All it takes is a tiny little curve at the ledge of a stage and Palutena rides that curve like Sonic and gets sent off to the side and to her death...

 

[Big-Cat]

One possible reason is that you're tilting the stick in the wrong direction by accident before going to your final direction. That's happened to me a few times.

 

[Masque]

Online and offline, yes. And I do think the stage designs have a lot to do with me warping to the wrong place. All it takes is a tiny little curve at the ledge of a stage and Palutena rides that curve like Sonic and gets sent off to the side and to her death...

Yeah, this is why I loathe playing on Bridge of Eldin FG. Palutena's Warp forces her to travel the entire distance of the move before she reappears, changing direction when a platform or other surface falls in the teleport's trajectory. While this can be exploited for a little extra mobility by Warp Canceling into aerials, etc., it can also prove problematic on stages with "lips" between the base of the stage and the ledge. In the case of Bridge of Eldin FG, unless Palutena is positioned directly below the ledge when she warps upward, the curved stone will "intercept" her teleport and send her off in another direction. :/ It's extremely frustrating--believe me, I know.

 

[T-skjorte Ninja]

One possible reason is that you're tilting the stick in the wrong direction by accident before going to your final direction. That's happened to me a few times.

Tilting the stick a little shouldn't make me do a 90 degree change of direction, though. :v

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Another question: How do you approach with Palutena? Sometimes I use Nair, but it doesn't always work. For the most part, I just play defensively and let them come to me. But are there good options for approaching?

 

[xnine]

Another question: How do you approach with Palutena? Sometimes I use Nair, but it doesn't always work. For the most part, I just play defensively and let them come to me. But are there good options for approaching?

I usually just dash and shield. You can also do retreating fairs and empty hops and dash attacks. I find nairs and bairs a bit too laggy to use if I'm the one approaching.

 

[Masque]

Another question: How do you approach with Palutena? Sometimes I use Nair, but it doesn't always work. For the most part, I just play defensively and let them come to me. But are there good options for approaching?

Yeah, Nair isn't the most reliable for approaches. Like xnine said, you're better off dashing to shield -> grab (ideally), throwing out short hopped Fairs and Bairs while occasionally doing an empty hop to switch up and hopefully earn you a grab. Bairs are especially useful for overtaking obvious aerial approaches since it eats through everything. It's slower than her Fair, but its insane priority and invincibility make it a safe, solid option.

 

[Zediwonder]

Nair approaches will get you punished, if the last hit of the nair doesn't connect it doesn't knock the opponent away and it just leaves them in front of you for a free attack basically, bair approaches are good. I can't recommend dash attacking as it can easily be shielded and the end lag will get you punished.

Of course it's usually better to wait for your opponent to approach, jab into grab on approach or challenge their aerials is a lot better, fair is still good for your own approach but it can be punished, especially by diddy who can perform their own fair before Palutena's.

I bought a new 3ds today and I want to transfer the save data on my SD so I can watch my replays and continue where I left off in SMT4 but it didn't transfer over in the system transfer and they lock you out for 7 days which is really stupid and annoying :I anyone know how to fix it? New 3ds is great though, smash bros loads fast, c stick, love the faceplates, wish I could just change SD card so I can play my ****ing games though but NO.

 

[Death Arcana]

took first at the weekly
btw who's all going to apex again?

 

[faderpotater]

So I recently started playing Palutena and I really like her. But there is one move of hers that bugs me, and it's a move I hear can be really good, and that's Warp. Almost 50% of the times I die is because of warp. When you finish a warp, she drops straight down almost as badly as Little Mac with very little movement left or right. So if I warp and start to drop, even if I'm close to the edge and hold the analog stick toward the edge, she won't make it. But what's especially annoying is when she just flat out warps in the wrong directions. I try warping diagonally up-left or up-right to the edge, but she just ends up warping left or right under the stage and dies. Or even worse, I try warping directly up, DIRECTLY UP, but she ends up off to the side and dies. I don't know how it happens. Is it the stage or the way the ledges are designed? It kind of discourages me from warping directly up if crap like that'll happen, but then my only other option for recovering low is going diagonal, but that screws me over a lot too. I feel like it's just a bad recovery, but I hear from guides that it might be her best B move...

Personally I find warp usually pretty easy to use, could just take some getting used to. I will say on certain stages you have to be super careful because they curve and shoot you out into the middle of nowhere. I think if you are below the stage and know it will curve you try and use warp a little later. It may still curve but now it may curve you just enough to get to the ledge.

On the topic of approaching does anyone like a nair mix up? I keep thinking a short hop nair that travels over the opponent and lands behind them could be good.

Also will be going to a tourney tomorrow. Guess I will find out what the scene in tally really is.

 

[Zediwonder]

I get lucky with nair approaches sometimes, usually by accident like coming from below the stage with an nair but I find more often then not I get punished for it. I generally try to force the approach with AR, smashville is great for this cause you can hit from your spawn points at the start of the match, it's not the best forced approach but it's something.

Overall if you want to approach aerials are the move to use, fair, bair, dair are all good options, I really don't like the way nair hits from a sh but if you like it keep using it.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Save counter for reads. That's the basic advice for it. Shields are safer and don't leave you as open if nothing happens.

With someone like Ganondorf, focus on zoning them out and dodging.

Thank you for the advice. =) What does reads and zoning them out mean?

zoning them out = with Palutenas windbox?

 

[faderpotater]

Thank you for the advice. =) What does reads and zoning them out mean?

zoning them out = with Palutenas windbox?

By zoning they are referring to keeping you opponents away by trying to hit with the very edge of moves like forward air. You jump and move in a way that keeps you out of their range yet still close enough to move in and hit with your attacks if they miss an attack. Basically anything you do to control where your opponent can safely move. Controlling where your opponent can move means you can guess what they will do more accurately which is where reads come in.

A read is where you guess based on how your opponent has acted throughout the match on what they are going to do next. With counter your reads will be based on trying to guess when they will attack you with a big enough hit for you to counter. Personally I like falling on people because at first most people will try and charge an up smash or do an aerial and it is a good time to do a counter. Honestly though it is all about knowing your opponent because if you consistently counter when they don't attack you will get punished pretty hard.

If I got anything wrong or unclear feel free to elaborate anyone. Also the tournament may be unclear for me now as I slipped on a wet floor and injured my knee super bad. Hoping they just give me some crutches and I can limp to the tournament.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thank you for the advice. =) What does reads and zoning them out mean?

zoning them out = with Palutenas windbox?

faderpotater explained part of it, but zoning is a lot of things really. You can do things like attacking with a ranged attack if they try to rush in. If they're up in the air, you can be across from them, but not necessarily attacking. With that example, you can just be blocking their horizontal movement. With Palutena, you can do additional things like using AR as a safe whiff punish, use reflector to keep them away, warp around to favorable positions that keep them close to the edge (or not). Zoning is a very fundamental part of anyone's game.

Speaking of fundamentals, I swear that playing in FG's lag just ****s all over fundamentals. You can be predicting air dodges, edge guards, or rolls, but you're always just a few frames late. Don't get me started on dash attacks.

 

[faderpotater]

faderpotater explained part of it, but zoning is a lot of things really. You can do things like attacking with a ranged attack if they try to rush in. If they're up in the air, you can be across from them, but not necessarily attacking. With that example, you can just be blocking their horizontal movement. With Palutena, you can do additional things like using AR as a safe whiff punish, use reflector to keep them away, warp around to favorable positions that keep them close to the edge (or not). Zoning is a very fundamental part of anyone's game.

Speaking of fundamentals, I swear that playing in FG's lag just ****s all over fundamentals. You can be predicting air dodges, edge guards, or rolls, but you're always just a few frames late. Don't get me started on dash attacks.

Yeah as I started to describe it I was like geez this is a hard concept to describe. I also heavily dislike FGs as I often miss just about everything. I got salty a little while ago in this thread after a particularly bad episode where it didn't read my quick dashes away and I got hit by fsmashes from people that literally just walked up to me.

 

[Big-Cat]

FG is really just for building matchup info.

 

[Zediwonder]

I did pretty good at a tournament today, top 16 and pro brackets. I got paired with the guy who came first in the first round who played fox and I've never versed good fox player in all my time playing Smash and then had a ridiculously close match with a jiggs player where the loss of all our matches was who could get the KO hit first.

We're still running customs here, I don't think I would have done as well with default Palutena, a lot of Diddy Kong and Sheik players this time. Little Mac player came second though and it was pretty impressive.

 

[faderpotater]

I did pretty good at a tournament today, top 16 and pro brackets. I got paired with the guy who came first in the first round who played fox and I've never versed good fox player in all my time playing Smash and then had a ridiculously close match with a jiggs player where the loss of all our matches was who could get the KO hit first.

We're still running customs here, I don't think I would have done as well with default Palutena, a lot of Diddy Kong and Sheik players this time. Little Mac player came second though and it was pretty impressive.

Going to be starting the tournament here in the next few minutes. Still no customs here, I played around with them for the first time for real a bit yesterday. How do you guys normally use them? Lightweight I liked saving to edge guard and get deep kills, whereas superspeed I would use to approach and mix up above stage recovery.

 

[_Darkpit_]

faderpotater explained part of it, but zoning is a lot of things really. You can do things like attacking with a ranged attack if they try to rush in. If they're up in the air, you can be across from them, but not necessarily attacking. With that example, you can just be blocking their horizontal movement. With Palutena, you can do additional things like using AR as a safe whiff punish, use reflector to keep them away, warp around to favorable positions that keep them close to the edge (or not). Zoning is a very fundamental part of anyone's game.

Speaking of fundamentals, I swear that playing in FG's lag just ****s all over fundamentals. You can be predicting air dodges, edge guards, or rolls, but you're always just a few frames late. Don't get me started on dash attacks.

Hey, thank you and faderpotater. Sounds like very useful tips. I'm going to try it in my next match =)

 

[faderpotater]

Hey, thank you and faderpotater. Sounds like very useful tips. I'm going to try it in my next match =)

It takes a while to get a hang of how to space and zone but it is definitely worth thinking about as you play.

 

[faderpotater]

Augh they announced at the tourney that they allow customs, that would be great if I has ever practiced custom. After narrowly losing my first match I think I'm going to stick default, just don't know the customs well enough to use them smart.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Is there some kind of Palutena Skype group or something? I wanna try fighting another good Palutena and learn a few things.

 

[Rashid]

Is there some kind of Palutena Skype group or something? I wanna try fighting another good Palutena and learn a few things.

Pretty sure you can find the thread if you actually check below the stickies...It's like literally one of the 5 "newest" threads.
Add me: mega_snack. I'll add you to the group.

 

[Chandeelure]

A random question.

What does Palutena say sometimes when she does her Side or Down Smash? XD

 

[Rashid]

A random question.

What does Palutena say sometimes when she does her Side or Down Smash? XD

Goddess wings. You can test it yourself by setting music and SFX to 0, keeping voice at 100.

 

[faderpotater]

Ok so I went 2-2 at the tournament but I got some good experience and gave everyone I fought a newfound respect for palutena.

First round I got too caught up in the idea of customs and tried to use them without any real practice with them against an olimar. Lost then went back to default for the reflect for pikmin and stole away a narrow game 2. Decided to try and custom against his Mario and once again just found myself not using the customs to their full potential due to a lack of practice. Next two rounds I had good games against a dedede won the set 2-0 then took out a Kirby 2-0 but lost to a falcon because I haven't worked on my gimp game well enough. Kill most of my opponents up and it just wasn't going to happen on falcon. I played well it I just couldnt kill him and got two stocked two games in a row. I think I am heavily going to focus on hitting people offstage, especially non-floaties like fox, falco, and cpt falcon who don't die up easy.

 

[Zediwonder]

My personal opinion is that Palutena is the best character for actually counterpicking customs, reflect or superspeed are my general options, I recommend if customs are available getting rid of counter and using lightweight instead, I find lightweight so much more useful than counter and it gets me most of my KO's, no one expects you to be able to jump from the stage to the top of the screen and uair. It's especially good for chasing off the stage, run off and fair them then jump back like nothing happened while they struggle to recover to the ledge.

my record in my pool was 2 wins 1 loss, I lost winner final against Donkey Kong because I had no idea how his custom up special works and was destroyed by it, I won loser finals in pools to get into pro brackets. I'm really unfortunate when I play because I always win 2:1 no matter the skill of the opponent because of some silly mistake with Palutena, I think next tournament I'm going to use rocket jump because I kill myself with warp and jump glide all the time. I almost won a match by grabbing a sheik player and just holding them on the platform in T&C while it flew away which was pretty funny.

 

[faderpotater]

My personal opinion is that Palutena is the best character for actually counterpicking customs, reflect or superspeed are my general options, I recommend if customs are available getting rid of counter and using lightweight instead, I find lightweight so much more useful than counter and it gets me most of my KO's, no one expects you to be able to jump from the stage to the top of the screen and uair. It's especially good for chasing off the stage, run off and fair them then jump back like nothing happened while they struggle to recover to the ledge.

my record in my pool was 2 wins 1 loss, I lost winner final against Donkey Kong because I had no idea how his custom up special works and was destroyed by it, I won loser finals in pools to get into pro brackets. I'm really unfortunate when I play because I always win 2:1 no matter the skill of the opponent because of some silly mistake with Palutena, I think next tournament I'm going to use rocket jump because I kill myself with warp and jump glide all the time. I almost won a match by grabbing a sheik player and just holding them on the platform in T&C while it flew away which was pretty funny.

My struggle is I always have a really solid first stock then on the second stock they start making it close. I kept trying to use lightweight in the neutral and just couldn't control myself. Superspeed I kept instinctually using DA out of even though I knew I could jump and what not. I think if I practice with them my custom palutena will be better, but I shouldn't have tried it in tourney.

Side not I actually get pretty good mileage out of counter, people tend to think her counter is so bad that I'd never use it and so I get lots of counters. Even get some kills with it.

 

[Zediwonder]

Counter has got me killed more times than it's helped me where as lightweight has saved me when I should have died so I like it a lot better.

I made a lot of mistakes in my matches, like I completely forgot how to play Palutena, kept going for smashes when I could have been safer. I gotta practice so I don't make that mistake, I had to switch to Toon Link for some matches because I understood how to play him from experience, still I did great with Palutena, and I would have done better had I been playing her how I normally play, guess I let the pressure get to me.

 

[faderpotater]

Counter has got me killed more times than it's helped me where as lightweight has saved me when I should have died so I like it a lot better.

I made a lot of mistakes in my matches, like I completely forgot how to play Palutena, kept going for smashes when I could have been safer. I gotta practice so I don't make that mistake, I had to switch to Toon Link for some matches because I understood how to play him from experience, still I did great with Palutena, and I would have done better had I been playing her how I normally play, guess I let the pressure get to me.

Yeah I definitely see the perks of lightweight over counter. Maybe in time people will get used to how I counter them and it will lose effectiveness. I think then only bad habits I have left still are I sometimes ftilt when I think someone is going to dash towards me. It usually either does nothing or gets me punished. I still have input problems. Every once in a while, like I want to dash and shield grab but instead side smash. Or sometimes I use a different aerial than the one I wanted. Overall though I am getting really consistent with my campy defensive game. I space them out and as soon as I see an opening I swoop in with a fast fall fair or bair.

 

[Zediwonder]

My friend was playing greninja and was using his tilt and winning, everyone was laughing because it was working so well and he was punishing rolls with it and it was safe to use because you could shadow sneak out of it. So there's room for all moves to be good basically.

Counters are on a lot of characters and they're never really bad moves you just gotta be fairly safe with it. I had really bad luck with Palutena's jabs, I kept trying to do a single jab and go for the grab afterwards but I kept doing it slightly too early and instead doing the full set of jabs. I'm usually pretty good with not screwing it up so I have to wonder why I had so much trouble with it yesterday.

 

[faderpotater]

My friend was playing greninja and was using his tilt and winning, everyone was laughing because it was working so well and he was punishing rolls with it and it was safe to use because you could shadow sneak out of it. So there's room for all moves to be good basically.

Counters are on a lot of characters and they're never really bad moves you just gotta be fairly safe with it. I had really bad luck with Palutena's jabs, I kept trying to do a single jab and go for the grab afterwards but I kept doing it slightly too early and instead doing the full set of jabs. I'm usually pretty good with not screwing it up so I have to wonder why I had so much trouble with it yesterday.

I find sometimes when I mean to go for a grab it reads as a jab and I miss my chance at a jab, otherwise I only go into the chain on accident every few matches or so

 

[JayWon]

My friend was playing greninja and was using his tilt and winning, everyone was laughing because it was working so well and he was punishing rolls with it and it was safe to use because you could shadow sneak out of it. So there's room for all moves to be good basically.

Counters are on a lot of characters and they're never really bad moves you just gotta be fairly safe with it. I had really bad luck with Palutena's jabs, I kept trying to do a single jab and go for the grab afterwards but I kept doing it slightly too early and instead doing the full set of jabs. I'm usually pretty good with not screwing it up so I have to wonder why I had so much trouble with it yesterday.

When I play Palutena, I put my finger completely off the grab button. If I do want to grab I can only grab through Shield + A. This works well for Palutena for me because it prevents Dash grabbing because whiffing a dash grab is literally worse than hitler and I would rather whiff a shield grab when I'm chasing, and also you won't accidentally enter a Jab combo when you really meant to grab if you depend on Shield+A for grab.

 

[faderpotater]

When I play Palutena, I put my finger completely off the grab button. If I do want to grab I can only grab through Shield + A. This works well for Palutena for me because it prevents Dash grabbing because whiffing a dash grab is literally worse than hitler and I would rather whiff a shield grab when I'm chasing, and also you won't accidentally enter a Jab combo when you really meant to grab if you depend on Shield+A for grab.

Ever since I started playing smash seriously I struggled with grabs. I struggled getting grabbed, I struggled landing them, it was awful. Then I learned the beauty of shield grabbing and gladly left the z button days behind. Z just makes me jab or dash grab way to consistently and now I am scared of it.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Learning how to Warp Cancel is really important. Also learn how to pick Battle Field every time.

 

[Zediwonder]

It's hard to pick battlefield everytime when it gets banned 90% of the time. I tend to go for smashville otherwise though the moving platform isn't great.

Unless they run different starters from here, we got Palutena's temple FD (because of the lighting on normal FD), Battlefield and Smashville atm. I refuse to play on Lylat cruise for counterpicking, worst stage, needs to be banned.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

It's hard to pick battlefield everytime when it gets banned 90% of the time. I tend to go for smashville otherwise though the moving platform isn't great.

Unless they run different starters from here, we got Palutena's temple FD (because of the lighting on normal FD), Battlefield and Smashville atm. I refuse to play on Lylat cruise for counterpicking, worst stage, needs to be banned.

The BF thing was a joke. But I find myself picking it so much just so I can warp cancel a bunch. T&C has good platforms too. Even a flat stage can be good for warp cancels. Its possible to warp on the ledge constantly. Its a little difficult but provides good mind games when you edge guard.

 

[Zediwonder]

I'm not really fond of warp moves so I try not to use them, I know the range of warp but I don't know it well enough that I cays. n get a perfect angle on the ledge and not kill myself with it, I should probably practice it since it is pretty mind gamey and unexpected. Since I don't actually know, can you warp cancel from off the stage? That would be the best time to use it, using it on the stage would get predictable unless you're on a stage like battlefield where even if it's predictable it's safe since you can attack out of it. I'll have to put some research into the range of warp if I want to use it, I kill myself with warp all the time regardless so I need the practice to understand why when I'm holding up I'm warping sideways.

 

[Rashid]

You can't Warp cancel from offstage unless there's a platform. But you can just go for the ledge.

 

[Zediwonder]

If customs stay allowed forever then I think I'm going to stick with Rocket Jump in that case, it's not the best vertical or horizontal recovery but I shouldn't need that using light weight, it has a deceptively small range but it's also really big for a move that can meteor smash and it can KO fairly early as well.