Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[| Big D |]

I'm pretty sure the only balance things they have done would be to Lil Mac because of all the casual complaints. I will go and test Palu though. Congratz for winning Big D! What were your matchups like?

Thanks dude.

In later rounds, ended up playing against a Rosalina, DDD, and a Sheik in GF.

 

[M]

Wow Big D, I had to play a Dedede in GFs as well. Bizarre that people are playing him in much riskier rounds. :S (though I guess it's equally strange to see Palutenas placing so high too)

Congrats on your win though.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

First time posting here, just started playing Palutena last weekend

quick question, would anyone want a more in depth guide/overview on that speed storing technique? Theres actually a lot to it and it can set up some super early kills.

Definitely.

More information/knowledge is always good, never bad.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Lightweight+Momentum Save+Dash attack = All of FD.

Have fun with that.

Its kind of ridiculous that her dash attack can go that amount of length.....

 

[Admiral Pit]

We'll need vids of that.

Also, during my adventures of For Glory today for the hour, here's my highlights:

-Made 2 players quit when they tried to Palutena ditto me.
-Countered a Luigi Up-B.

The first player was spamming rolls, grabs, and some smashes with DHD/Shulk/Samus/Falcon, and the other, I can't remember. I only remembered the 2nd Palutena ditto.


Also, another thing that has been annoying me besides my circle pad is that some Omegas hurt Palutena's Warp when recovering, and I feel we need to look into it sometime. I know Magicant is one of them, from experience.

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

How do any fellow goddess's feel about the Sonic MU? I feel like it's in Palutena's favor slightly in how the majority of her moves beats his, just a matter of reacting to his speed.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Palutena has the priorities I think. All you need is the timing and reacting, and figuring out where Sonic will be after which move he does for a chance to quickly land a hit on him. I can't remember which moves since I don't know Sonic, but I was able to land a B-air or F-air on him, or maybe it was against the wrong Sonics, I don't know. He is annoying to fight, though when pressured.
Autoreticle is not recommended to use unless Sonic's off stage... I think.

 

[Fluttershy]

Actually it looks like it's 8/10ths the distance of Fd but still it's far lol

What part of magicant is giving you trouble?

 

[Admiral Pit]

The stage's edges seem to disrupt her Warp at a diagonally upward attempt I believe, causing her to fall rather than try to get the ledge. It doesn't help that my circle pad misbehaves either, and I know some other Omegas do the same to her.

 

[Thinkaman]

How do any fellow goddess's feel about the Sonic MU? I feel like it's in Palutena's favor slightly in how the majority of her moves beats his, just a matter of reacting to his speed.

I was doing some Sonic MU tests a couple nights ago, and Palutena was the only character I consistently won with. (Disclaimer: I think Sonic is probably the #1 character in the game as we know it.)

U-tilt and uair stuff vertical Hammer Spin Dash, which is the most important part of any Sonic matchup. Nair does NOT! F-tilt, d-tilt, and f-smash (if brave) can beat horizontal spin dash. These, as well as jab, also beat his grab mixup. U-smash isn't that useful because of Hammer Spin Dash's height.

Sonic is hard to juggle, since he can Spin Dash back to the ground above stage and has a flexible up-b. However, I did get a lot of mileage from uair and bair.

Sonic does have to begrudgingly respect Super Speed, so like most matchups this is the only thing keeping Palutena truly competitive. It means that like other characters, Sonic does have to approach you--he can't just let you Super Speed him all day. Note that a smart Sonic will HSD out of Super Speed's way, which you have to punish with a aerial jump-cancel into uair.

Explosive Flame is all but useless in this matchup. I got maybe 2 offstage punishes off with it ever, but still take it because that's more than AR would give you in the same conditions...

Counter will not work on HSD.

Bottom line: All Sonic matchups make the other side work extra hard for every single tiny hit. Palutena is no exception, but she does have tools to make it work.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Floating Omegas make Palutena's recovery a little tough with Warp. Especially F-Zero I think. Trying to sweet spot a floating Omega could leave you on the other side of the stage.

As far as Sonic goes I think that its a really hard match-up if you aren't experienced in it. Sonic can destroy Palutena if she doesn't know how to use her moves correctly. Jab is really good in this match-up for ruining his approaches. You just need to time it correctly. Counter when Sonic starts to go crazy. DI the up-throw. Don't try to match his speed with customs. I think this match up is better just letting Sonic go crazy and punish him.

(Disclaimer: I think Sonic is probably the #1 character in the game as we know it.)

If Sonic is the best in the game then this game is balanced. He may be the best. But not by a large margin. Which is great.

 

[BottledFairy]

Add Luigi to the hatred list. Stupid obnoxious character anyways, same with Mario, but I mentioned him already.
EDIT: Bringing up Ness and his own annoyance again. These stupidly obnoxious For Glory players get on my nerves way too much.

I agree with Luigi. Everything that works on everyone else seems to not work on him because Luigi spits on logic. Palutena should use her heavenly powers to smite his insolence.

 

[Fluttershy]

Ah my problem with recovering tends to be that i keep hitting the stage close to a 0°angle and keep getting pushed upwards without grabbing the ledge. Though ironically it has saved me from getting punished once since i time warp a bit early and land on the stage a bit too often.. (Just too used to Farore's startup lag)

 

[Admiral Pit]

Adding Pika to the list. I don't think I've said this, but I despise both tiny and speed characters. On the bright side, I was told Palutena has an advantage over MK somehow, so that's one stressful thing off my chest.

EDIT: Add D3 to the list. I don't get it, but I feel that this game makes the majority of characters much more obnoxious to fight. I only feel sad for Pit, Ike, and Falco outta the veterans, and Shulk for newcomers, outta the top of my head. All uncommon, need more attention. Obvious I think Palutena needs more attention too, but still.

 

[xnine]

You have beef with a large amount of the smash lineup! I for one have beef with the damned wii fit trainer. I think I have a decent win rate against every other character, including ZZS and Sheik, but I quite literally have never beaten a wii fit trainer.

Maybe I'm just not used to the animations or something.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I personally haven't seen many WFT users at all, so I can't give my full input on the character, but I can imagine her/him being a bit campy, and has weird hitboxes.

I do hate losing for the most part. Part of my hatred comes from the Brawl times. It's hard to explain.

 

[Burigu]

Right now I have a win rate of 58.62% is this considered good or bad?? Recently I got butchered by a really capable Peach player that made me look soooo bad with Palutena, since that incident I am afraid of trying her on 1 on 1 it is not that I can't handle losing but that lose was so bad that I am feeling really insecure right now with her.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Right now I have a win rate of 58.62% is this considered good or bad?? Recently I got butchered by a really capable Peach player that made me look soooo bad with Palutena, since that incident I am afraid of trying her on 1 on 1 it is not that I can't handle losing but that lose was so bad that I am feeling really insecure right now with her.

out of how many matches?

I have 78% win rate out of around 700. I consider that bad. 80% and up is good imo.

I feel the same way when I lose a match with Palutena. Mostly against characters like Kirby, Greninja, and Ness. It could just be the match-up. Peach is uhhhhh. Idk. I think Peach can beat Palutena pretty bad. Peach has some good priority. Auto-reticle is good used sparingly. Peach can follow up pretty well so its important to dodge out of the follow ups.

 

[Burigu]

out of how many matches?

I have 78% win rate out of around 700. I consider that bad. 80% and up is good imo.

I feel the same way when I lose a match with Palutena. Mostly against characters like Kirby, Greninja, and Ness. It could just be the match-up. Peach is uhhhhh. Idk. I think Peach can beat Palutena pretty bad. Peach has some good priority. Auto-reticle is good used sparingly. Peach can follow up pretty well so its important to dodge out of the follow ups.

Well I am ashamed to say I have a record of only 65 battles 38 of them being victories since the post I have 3 more victories and 3 more loses (with Yoshi) for a score of 58.46% right now. On average I won more frecuently but being below 60% is not exactly brilliant on my book.

 

[meleebrawler]

I updated my account with my friend code.
Feel free to friend me and stuff.

I main Megaman and Palutena, but I like to use a lot of characters.
Particularly Pac-Man, Shulk, Bowser Jr. and Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Well I am ashamed to say I have a record of only 65 battles 38 of them being victories since the post I have 3 more victories and 3 more loses (with Yoshi) for a score of 58.46% right now. On average I won more frecuently but being below 60% is not exactly brilliant on my book.

eh. Don't be ashamed. Unless you've been playing Smash bros competitively for a few years. If not. Don't worry about it.

 

[SN3AK]

Dang this thread is super dead

 

[Djent]

^ He says after 3 people post in the same hour.

EDIT: Heh. Oops.

 

[SN3AK]

My bad, i was looking at page 1 T-T

 

[xnine]

Right now I have a win rate of 58.62% is this considered good or bad?? Recently I got butchered by a really capable Peach player that made me look soooo bad with Palutena, since that incident I am afraid of trying her on 1 on 1 it is not that I can't handle losing but that lose was so bad that I am feeling really insecure right now with her.

If it makes you feel better, I'm at 48%~. Still recovering from my initial 50-straight losses...

 

[Burigu]

eh. Don't be ashamed. Unless you've been playing Smash bros competitively for a few years. If not. Don't worry about it.

Thank you well I have played the game since the original, but only with my friends when we wanted things to get serious we played Final Destination without items just like in the competitive scene. I can't say I was bad at it, but yeah I learned of tiers and competitive comunities within smash bros for at least 2 years now, but was Palutena's inclusion in the game that made me sign up in this comunity, I understand most if not all of the terms you use. But becoming aware of the existence of a competitive comunity make me more afraid of trying for Glory, despite the fact I most often win than lose (my winning score is now 60%), I think it is an issue of me doubting my own skills now that I can actually test my them against other people since Brawl was so laggy that after a few plays I never bothered comming back to that. So yeah despite playing the game for over a decade now I wasn't really in the competitive business until this year. Sorry for the longgggg letter.

If it makes you feel better, I'm at 48%~. Still recovering from my initial 50-straight losses...

50 straight losses?? I start to fell frustrated when scoring 3 in a row. Unless you don't mean on the same season but thanks I just have to be more confident

 

[The Light Music Club]

Told by a clan member that my Pikachu is way better than my Palutena, even thought I've been using Palutena all of Smash 4, and Pikachu only in the demo. But since I mained him in Brawl, I guess I'll drag him along as a secondary. I refuse to not use Palutena, she's part of the reason I bought the game. As for win percentage I'm at 55% or so. Out of my past 100 I'm a bit over 60% I think.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

@ Admiral Pit

We still need to do dittos. I can do it now if you want.

 

[GMaster171]

Super Speed info dump:

You can store two different levels of speed out of super speed, which I'v been calling speed storage (SS) and super speed storage (SSS).

The first is done out of any option that doesn't leave you in the air, activates SSS or is Dash attack or roll. This includes teleport, any JC special that ends before you land and stopping with no action. This gives Palutena a small boost on her next running jump, of about 20% of her regular distance. Not too useful but it might help in some situations.

The second is the more significant one, SSS. It is activated ONLY by doing JC usmash OR sh counter (so you land before counter ends). This gives Palutena a massive boost on her next dash jump or dash attack, making her able to jump or attack across the entirety of FD. This boost is held through all grounded normals, dash, run, back roll (not front roll), dodge and SH counter. The boost is burned upon going into skid (dash ending), dash attack, and landing in anything but counter. This means that you can repeadly use the super jump as long as you land with counter.

SSS can be degraded to SS by using a special or landing during a special other than counter, SS can not be upgraded to SSS.

Things you can do:
f-throw near ledge->super jump nair kills most characters around 70 due to how far you can go. using jump glide or teleport you can make it back easily.
mid screen dash attack has the shield armor and insane burst range
You can move around in neutral easily without burning SSS, as the only actions you need avoid are forward roll, dash attack and run stop. simply cancel dash with shield to avoid stopping directly.

You can store SS and SSS from aerial super speeds, so long as you land during a special/counter. super speed timer also goes while SS or SSS are stocked, so you can essentially do super jump->super speed to get across stages extremely quickly.

This is all I have for now, anything else you guys can find would be cool.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Can we have a Palutena mirror tournament some time? I think that'd be cool.

 

[xnine]

50 straight losses?? I start to fell frustrated when scoring 3 in a row. Unless you don't mean on the same season but thanks I just have to be more confident

I exaggerated, but not by much. My first 50 games I played in For Glory was a massive wake up call with a whooping 5% winrate (90% of the time using Palutena). I'm basically new in terms of even being remotely competitive. I didn't play too much melee, and I only played brawl with some friends that were equally terrible. I just now started to really try and learn.

My win-rate floats at about 60% now though.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Super Speed info dump:

You can store two different levels of speed out of super speed, which I'v been calling speed storage (SS) and super speed storage (SSS).

The first is done out of any option that doesn't leave you in the air, activates SSS or is Dash attack or roll. This includes teleport, any JC special that ends before you land and stopping with no action. This gives Palutena a small boost on her next running jump, of about 20% of her regular distance. Not too useful but it might help in some situations.

The second is the more significant one, SSS. It is activated ONLY by doing JC usmash OR sh counter (so you land before counter ends). This gives Palutena a massive boost on her next dash jump or dash attack, making her able to jump or attack across the entirety of FD. This boost is held through all grounded normals, dash, run, back roll (not front roll), dodge and SH counter. The boost is burned upon going into skid (dash ending), dash attack, and landing in anything but counter. This means that you can repeadly use the super jump as long as you land with counter.

SSS can be degraded to SS by using a special or landing during a special other than counter, SS can not be upgraded to SSS.

Things you can do:
f-throw near ledge->super jump nair kills most characters around 70 due to how far you can go. using jump glide or teleport you can make it back easily.
mid screen dash attack has the shield armor and insane burst range
You can move around in neutral easily without burning SSS, as the only actions you need avoid are forward roll, dash attack and run stop. simply cancel dash with shield to avoid stopping directly.

You can store SS and SSS from aerial super speeds, so long as you land during a special/counter. super speed timer also goes while SS or SSS are stocked, so you can essentially do super jump->super speed to get across stages extremely quickly.

This is all I have for now, anything else you guys can find would be cool.

http://smashboards.com/threads/palutena-momentum-saving-new-super-speed-tech.372071/
Go post that in this thread to catalogue the info better.

There's a lot more to it than I originally though.

I didn't know about the counter landing saving the momentum further.

Lightweight plus the momentum save = crazy range on dash attack too.

I feel like its really gimmicky and its easy to get caught trying to save it. Its like trying to balance on a tightrope with someone trying to hit you off it constantly. But it is useful against people that don't know about it. Or don't see it coming. Its heavily advertised though. Well the Super Speed one is at least. I think that lightweight is just a better option than going through all the trouble to save and keep all that momentum. Its really limiting. Its like you have to go run away and get a full charge shot with Samus. I guess it isn't really something you spam but its difficult to get and keep for good use. It is a good mix up though.

 

[GMaster171]

Don't know how I feel about lightweight, in my head the downsides outweigh the upsides but Ill have to try it more.

And I'm not really saying its all that useful, but its an option. and the more we can know about the options we have, the better we'll be able to play. If we get even one 70% kill a set, thats a ton lol

Has anyone done an investigation into dash attack/bair armor? maybe bring me up to speed if they have? I only started playing her this week.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Don't know how I feel about lightweight, in my head the downsides outweigh the upsides but Ill have to try it more.

And I'm not really saying its all that useful, but its an option. and the more we can know about the options we have, the better we'll be able to play. If we get even one 70% kill a set, thats a ton lol

Has anyone done an investigation into dash attack/bair armor? maybe bring me up to speed if they have? I only started playing her this week.

Lightweight is one of her best moves imo. The only thing about it is the extra 3% per move you get hit with. If its a multi-hit it is 3% total you get. High-percent combos/Rage effect combos d-throw>n-air>u-air kills Bowser at around 70%. (if you can get it). All worth it to me. The slowdown can be compensated for with Super Speed/Jump glide easily. Best used when they're high-percent and you're at low percent. It can be used when you don't give a crap because you have such high percent and you'll die soon anyway. Excellent move for chasing and strings. I wouldn't use it against someone with low percent. She can do better at regular speed at low percent.

I'm not sure about the armor for her dash attack. I don't think it can block a fully charged power shot from Samus. lol of course.

 

[Admiral Pit]

@ Admiral Pit

We still need to do dittos. I can do it now if you want.

I prefer doing it in early day, say 7-12pm pacific time. I just don't trust the potential late night lag.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I prefer doing it in early day, say 7-12pm pacific time. I just don't trust the potential late night lag.

oh ok

Would anyone else like to play?

 

[GMaster171]

Just tested it for like 5 mins

first observation is that Palutena is completely invulnerable from when the hitbox starts until after the hitbox

dash attack and bair will negate full charge shot, harmlessly blow up bob-ombs, and move you into the blast radius of smart bombs without being damaged.

 

[Admiral Pit]

And it's safe to say Palutena's Dash Attack and B-air definitely negates relatively any projectile in a way. Now if only we could time the moves against them easily, especially since I despise certain projectiles.

 

[GMaster171]

It should unless its a multihit projectile (snagging aura sphere or something)

It will also eat moves/recoveries so spacing bairs might be our best option in neutral.

 

[B!ggad]

I see everyone going indepth about Super Speed etc, aren't you worried about spoiling yourself with her incredible custom sets when they won't even be allowed in the end? Because I am, I wouldn't wanna go back from super speed to reflect.