Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[xnine]

I sure am. I can only play in For Glory (unless with friends which is rare), so the only thing I have at my disposal is reflect. Superspeed looks great, but I'm not sure I'll be able to use it.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I've grown to respect the default specials. I guess I'm loving doing warp cancels, and well, Reflect Barrier generally helps me, not to mention that it's the biggest thing you need against Villagers, and I've been seeing a few here and there.
I still kinda wish I could use Fireworks though, which adds to her already good anti-air capabilities.

As as weird as it sounds, My main set may be the defaults, except replace Counter with Fireworks. Sadly I haven't practiced customs in so long as players don't really like them, that and I've been lazy.

 

[xnine]

I did mess around with explosive flame, and I think I would probably replace AR if I could. But I'm kind of with Admiral Pit in that I actually like most of the default. Reflect makes a lot of matchups easier even if it is useless in others.

 

[Fluttershy]

I'll be able to have a few matches from 8:30 to 10:30am and 12:30 to about maybe 4-5pm eastern..

 

[deepseadiva]

I was really hoping the shield worked similarly to Link's. I just wish she kept it in front of her like they do.

I see everyone going indepth about Super Speed etc, aren't you worried about spoiling yourself with her incredible custom sets when they won't even be allowed in the end? Because I am, I wouldn't wanna go back from super speed to reflect.

They will be allowed. There's really no question about it.

 

[Kendude]

Yeah the default set has really grown on me aside from Counter, which I neglect since I've never been a fan of counters. I really wish one of the other 2 moves was the default.

Auto Reticle was the biggest surprise. I thought it was garbage at first and never expected to give it any credit, but over time I've learned to respect it in certain match ups.

 

[Thinkaman]

Trust me, Explosive Flame and Super Speed are dominant in every matchup.

Palutena without "I-can-cancel-into-anything" Super Speed is a waaay worse character.

 

[deepseadiva]

Has there been any documented use for Heavenly Light?

Worst move in Smash history I swear to god.

 

[Thinkaman]

Has there been any documented use for Heavenly Light?

Worst move in Smash history I swear to god.

You can use it out of a Super Speed jump to sweep across the stage damaging people, and Jump Glide/Lightweight back to the ledge? I dunno.

Like Sing, it's the sort of move that would be really, really stupid if it were any good.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Trust me, Explosive Flame and Super Speed are dominant in every matchup.

Palutena without "I-can-cancel-into-anything" Super Speed is a waaay worse character.

I have to disagree here. Palutena without Reflect Barrier does much worse against characters like Villager, Megaman, and DHD. Take it from me who fought them before. At the same time, projectile spam stops Super Speed in its tracks, and to wait a few seconds to use it again... is it worth it? And again, the extra lag from Explosive Flame as opposed to Autoreticle will hurt badly if you miss with it. If you want Explosive Flame's power, then that's fine. It's your Palutena. Just remember each matchup has its own preferred/recommended customs.

 

[Thinkaman]

I have to disagree here. Palutena without Reflect Barrier does much worse against characters like Villager, Megaman, and DHD. Take it from me who fought them before. At the same time, projectile spam stops Super Speed in its tracks, and to wait a few seconds to use it again... is it worth it? And again, the extra lag from Explosive Flame as opposed to Autoreticle will hurt badly if you miss with it. If you want Explosive Flame's power, then that's fine. It's your Palutena. Just remember each matchup has its own preferred/recommended customs.

Super Speed should still be used in projectile heavy matchups, especially DHD who has lots of trouble with rushdown. Super Speed should only be used in the air in most matchups anyway, and at the proper cadence to projectile spam; done correctly almost no projectiles beat Super Speed. (Lucario Vortex Sphere is the only one I can think of.)

Explosive Flame doesn't have power; Auto-Reticule does more damage. Explosive Flame should never be used in pure neutral, only on a read or to punish certain types of camp, including Villager.

For Explosive Flame vs. Auto-Reticule, you are comparing two moves that are of very little use at high-level play. If you hoenstly think you can wring more value out of Auto-Reticule, go right ahead; I'm skeptical but you aren't missing out on much.

For Super Speed, it's absolutely mandatory for high level 1v1 play. Not using Super Speed is like not using d-throw or bair. It's like saying "I prefer to use Little Mac as an aerial character."

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Bit late to the party when it comes to the codecs but wouldn't more happier to have them. I remember the times when I wrote some of my own which were well-received around here in the forums. Chrom's cameo is amusing as well.

It's really weird how I've never found much time to sit down try Palutena overall. ATM now I discovered her Super Speed-tricks and am really hooked. I'm bit afraid it'll be difficult to find all the ATs and mechanics in her fully in my own, so if one could be generous and point me towards the topics regarding these? I hope to be more active after spending a lot time playing the game on my own.

 

[Thinkaman]

WOW! I just tested Dash Attack (and bair) against Lucario's ensnaring Aura Sphere. It doesn't kill the projectile, but it beats it! You remain invulnerable to it long enough to shield.

Edit: Bair resumes vulnerability when you touch the ground, so only useful air-to-air.

And of course, you can do this out of Super Speed, clearing the projectile all together.

Holy crap, this matchup just got so much easier. I thought this was the only projectile in the game that beat Super Speed, but not you can just approach from the ground!

Edit: Dash Attack beats Villager's Counter Tree! It does not, however, beat the trip sapling. Bair does not beat the tree.

Edit 2: Bair (and dash attack) beat Yoshi eggs. This should be surprising, but it's a really nice thing to beat. Many other anti-projectile methods, including Super Speed and Jump Glide on Palutena herself, don't work against eggs.

Edit 3: Dash Attack avoids some, but not all of the hits of Thoron. Counter works on at least the non-held version, though. Dash Attack also beats Arcfire.

Also, it only beats WFT's Sweeping Sun Salutation with good timing. It's like Lucario's repeating hit Aura Spheres, it doesn't kill the projectile.

Edit 4: It (Palutena dash attack) loses to Explosive Flame; clearly op.

Edit 5: It beats G&W Bucket, even at max power. Note that G&W is invincible during this, so you can't hit him. (applies to Counters as well)

 

[GMaster171]

Well since its invincible, it'll beat anything that doesnt have a long lasting hitbox.

curious on exactly what it does to snagging aura sphere, does it negate the projectile or just pass through it?

Also imo customs should be legal, if one of them becomes a problem we can deal with it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Well since its invincible, it'll beat anything that doesnt have a long lasting hitbox.

It's not invincible per se, but the hitbox has unique clashing behavior.

A normally "invincible" move would still clash hitboxes like any other move and cancel the animation, reseting to neutral. (Ganon down-b in BBrawl worked this way) Palutena keeps going as if nothing happened. Leaf Shield projectile has similar behavior.

Additionally, Palutena is still vulnerable from other angles. A hitbox has to clash with her own before it is removed or she is deemed immune to it.

curious on exactly what it does to snagging aura sphere, does it negate the projectile or just pass through it?

So Ensnaring Aura Sphere is an unusually slow hitting multi-hit projectile. (If you get hit by it, the cooldown before it can hit you again is somewhat long, around a full second.)

Like all multi-hit projectiles, it isn't killed upon clashing with Palutena. But due to its nature, Palutena has a generous period of time to act with full immunity. She can easily shield, or move forward to safety. (Starting another move in the middle of it is a no-go.)

Of course, if you did the dash attack in Super Speed, the sphere is well behind you after the clash.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I got a 0-death on an Ike.

 

[GMaster171]

Im getting Samus' missles to clank her from behind, as well as her charge shot. you also go as far into a smart bomb going forwards as you do going backwards. She must have some sort of body invulnerability/armor, like Kirby in stone form or Melee yoshi DJ without damage.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I really enjoy playing as Palutena in this game but man is it a struggle sometimes. I sincerely hope she gets some buffs later down the line. I think more damage on her attacks overall and less lag on u-tilt, f-tilt, and d-smash would be nice. Anyone got any other ideas on what could be done to make her better?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Super Speed should still be used in projectile heavy matchups, especially DHD who has lots of trouble with rushdown. Super Speed should only be used in the air in most matchups anyway, and at the proper cadence to projectile spam; done correctly almost no projectiles beat Super Speed. (Lucario Vortex Sphere is the only one I can think of.)

Explosive Flame doesn't have power; Auto-Reticule does more damage. Explosive Flame should never be used in pure neutral, only on a read or to punish certain types of camp, including Villager.

For Explosive Flame vs. Auto-Reticule, you are comparing two moves that are of very little use at high-level play. If you hoenstly think you can wring more value out of Auto-Reticule, go right ahead; I'm skeptical but you aren't missing out on much.

For Super Speed, it's absolutely mandatory for high level 1v1 play. Not using Super Speed is like not using d-throw or bair. It's like saying "I prefer to use Little Mac as an aerial character."

Reflect Barrier over Super Speed against the dog. As long as you can avoid the exploding can that may go over the barrier, keep using the barrier and force him to approach, but just be wary when he rushes, and capitalize.

It's not designed to do damage, but Explosive Flame has the kill potential in the 140's, if you can time it right, and I know that... I was referring to Reflect Barrier that should be used against him, which can possibly be the biggest threat to him.

So you're saying I'm stupid for using Barrier over Super Speed, right? It isn't mandatory, and I think I'm getting really provoked about this. I'm very certain Barrier is more effective against some characters, simple as that. I'll gladly fight a SS Palutena against my default (or one with Fireworks), and we'll see what happens. Experiment with SS all you want, but if you cannot utilize the power of many other specials, especially the defaults to get you going, then you'll be in a pickle.

 

[Burigu]

Have some of you ever encountered a CPU player in for Glory I was playing yesterday and this Little Mac showed up, I win really easy, I saved the video because of Time record on For Glory latter when I watched the video again I discovered it was a CPU player which I found kind of odd.

Lastly it is my internet not working or people disconecting, yesterday like 2 times I was battling someone and then the screen frost when it returned to normal the level of the other player dropped significantly and I end up winning easily, my question is do they disconect or is my internet the one with issues??

I got a 0-death on an Ike.

I love that kind of videos I have a question to ask you I see you use the Dthrow to Fair combo, normally I can use this on CPUs the problem I have is using against human players since most of the time they dodge that hit, is there a time frame or something to make this attack always hit? or the player you defeat simply didn't do a thing to evade the attack because I would love to find a battler like that.

 

[GMaster171]

Pretty sure that if your partner disconnects from for glory, it replaces them with a low level CPU.

 

[Burigu]

Pretty sure that if your partner disconnects from for glory, it replaces them with a low level CPU.

Even midmatch?? that is a relief I was wondering if it was my conection somehow

 

[GMaster171]

Yea, I'v never disconnected mid match before, but theres been plenty of times where theres a sudden lag fight then the opponent just stops doing things (like a lvl 3 computer does lol)

 

[Thinkaman]

Im getting Samus' missles to clank her from behind, as well as her charge shot. you also go as far into a smart bomb going forwards as you do going backwards. She must have some sort of body invulnerability/armor, like Kirby in stone form or Melee yoshi DJ without damage.

Interesting, I'll test this more.

So you're saying I'm stupid for using Barrier over Super Speed, right? It isn't mandatory, and I think I'm getting really provoked about this. I'm very certain Barrier is more effective against some characters, simple as that.

So you're saying I'm stupid for using Barrier over Super Speed, right? It isn't mandatory, and I think I'm getting really provoked about this.

I don't mean offense, so please take it as treating you like an adult when I'm blunt:

There are right and wrong answers. If either of us sat here and tried to tell the other that Heavenly Light was a good move, and that the other was ignorant and gimping Palutena by not using it, they would be factually incorrect.

There's a temptation to appeal to depth or nuance that might not actually exists. It feels good to have a sophisticated appreciation of a move, especially one that others dismiss. However, just because I'm the only person in the world who appreciates Rollout doesn't make it a good move.

In some matchups, Reflect Barrier is a really good move. Except for Void Reflector, it's surely the best reflector in the game.

But Super Speed is an amazing move. Like, a real "WTF-broken" move. It's the most flexible move in the game (not even really a "move", more of a custom dash state with unique physics), since it cancels into such a wide variety of things. There is no move in the game that covers or even protects against all the options out of Super Speed. If it wasn't on a 5-second cooldown, we'd probably have to ban it--no joke, no hyperbole.

Even on Reflect Barrier's best day, Super Speed is still a better move. It doesn't hurt that most of Reflect Barrier's best matchups are also Super Speed's best, like DHD.


Now, Palutena's up-b is a much more interesting choice. All 3 options are pretty good (though not great), and all 3 synergize with Super Speed. I'm really curious to hear how people are feeling about them in various matchups.

Counter vs. Lightweight is also a really intriguing topic. Celestial Firework though, is probably slightly inferior to Counter--the only advantage it has is some weak anti-air (which is Palutena's specialty) and anti-grab coverage.

 

[Thinkaman]

Edit: sorry, accidental double post

 

[Cap'nChreest]

It does replace with a low level CPU. I have a replay where a guy rage quit when I broke his shield. The end of the replay shows his name at the end of the match but the slot is gray and says CPU at the end instead of blue P2

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I'll be playing at Youmacon in Michigan this saturday and sunday! I probably won't get to be able to be streamed unless I'm lucky and probably won't make it too far, but hopefully I can advance at least a few rounds considering there's probably lots of casuals/newbies especially since the game is new and hype!

Youmacon's an anime convention with lots of FG and smash tournaments with big pots that attract top players like M2K and Mango go.

I've gotten to the point where I can say with confidence Palutena is now my best overall character so I don't have to worry about who to play. I hope i can get streamed at least once! X)

5pm Saturday, resumes 3 pm Sunday
http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments

 

[GMaster171]

Interesting, I'll test this more.


So you're saying I'm stupid for using Barrier over Super Speed, right? It isn't mandatory, and I think I'm getting really provoked about this. I'm very certain Barrier is more effective against some characters, simple as that.

Was this directed at me? I never insulted anyone and in sorry if you took it as one. I'm just seeing what het moves can do.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Was this directed at me? I never insulted anyone and in sorry if you took it as one. I'm just seeing what het moves can do.

The 2nd part was actually something I said to someone else, my apologies. Kinda got mixed up in a SS vs Reflect thing or something.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Don't know how I feel about lightweight, in my head the downsides outweigh the upsides but Ill have to try it more.

And I'm not really saying its all that useful, but its an option. and the more we can know about the options we have, the better we'll be able to play. If we get even one 70% kill a set, thats a ton lol

Has anyone done an investigation into dash attack/bair armor? maybe bring me up to speed if they have? I only started playing her this week.

Been away from the thread, but yeah I posted in Aerodrome's analysis a while back that Dash Attack/BAir will completely beat every move clean while the hitbox is active. You can use it to blow through almost with them including projecitles

I'd also like to think this is why Aerolink also spaces with BAir (aside from just the good frame data/knockback on the move)

 

[kmpyj]

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but I think I found my favorite Palutena movesets. I have 3 types that I switch from now and then. It's going to be a little long so bare with me.

Moveset 1: Aggressive Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Super Speed

Teleport

Light Weight

This combination to me, allows me to constantly stay on the offensive. Auto Reticle is very quick, and seems to really get people. Plus, it is very quick to respond out of incase the attack misses. Super Speed is just........ :O It is no doubt my favorite offensive move. It is very quick hence the name "Super Speed," and can be canceled into a dash, up smash, and any aerial move, more preferably, back air, and neutral air which actually carries the opponent with Palutena. It's a very good move. Now on to teleport. Normally, I would have said rocket jump for this one, but due to rocket jump's short recovery and lack of use afterwards, teleport is my move to go. It's all because of that completely overlooked teleport cancel that makes this move to me very aggressive. And finally light weight. Because this move makes Palutena very quick and can make her jump high This move definitely helps me offensively. It's definitely good to have when your opponent's percentage is higher.


Moveset 2: Defensive Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Reflect

Teleport

Counter


This is pretty much Palutena's default moveset. The reason why I have Auto Reticle is because once again, it is very quick, but it also serves as a good spacing tool. Now on to Reflect. Reflect is a very excellent if not is this best reflect move in the game. It is very wide, and keeps a distance between the barrier and Palutena. And on top of that, it pushes people away. This is noticeably more effective while your opponent is in the air, and is a nightmare if your name is little mac. It's overall a very safe move. Teleport is a little self-explanatory. It's surprisingly very quick in getting you out of any situation. And finally Counter. I think we all know why that is a defensive move, but there is one little counter tech that Palutena has that some of you may or may not have known about. That is Palutena's counter slide. Palutena is the ONLY counter user in the game that can slide using her counter. To do this, you just simply walk or dash while the momentum is at it's max. Then after that, quickly use counter, and Palutena will quickly slide a good distance.


Moveset 3: kmpyj's Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Reflect

Teleport

Light Weight


This is by far my best and most favorite moveset to use. The reason why I prefer Auto Reticle over the others is because it is a move that I can use quickly and offensively. Explosive flame is good, but I just don't like the start up, and how easily you could get punished, and Heavenly Light really isn't good at all IMO. Next Reflect. The reason why I chose this one out of the others is because I love how a can use this defensively and offensively. It being able to push people back is a plus. I can't tell you how many times I comboed off of this move, or got a kill because it pushed someone off the stage. Angelic Missile is alright, but it really can't be followed up from, and super speed is very good, but it can be a little predictable. As for Teleport, I like this one over the others because it has the most tech involved IMO. More referring to that teleport cancel, which can trick my opponents, and or continuing to stay in pursuit with follow ups. Jump Glide is a good alternative, but once again, I just love the tech teleport has. And rocket jump is really just a one hit wonder. Finally, Light Weight. This move once again, expands my combo potential by making it so that I can follow up twice as fast than before. Celestial Fireworks is very good, but is just not for me, and counter is ok, but I rather be able to change my stats instead.


Overall, I really love Palutena's movesets. It took some time to get use to, but after a while, I am definitely pleased with her. In all honesty, I think Palutena is one of the most underestimated and over looked character on the roster. People give up on her way too quickly. It's a shame really, because there is potential in Palutena. I may not have been to EVO (yet) or I may not be some fancy dancy popularly known Smash elitist, but if there is one thing I do know it's that Palutena has potential, and I cannot wait to play as her at my best on the Wii U version.

 

[Burigu]

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but I think I found my favorite Palutena movesets. I have 3 types that I switch from now and then. It's going to be a little long so bare with me.

Moveset 1: Aggressive Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Super Speed

Teleport

Light Weight

This combination to me, allows me to constantly stay on the offensive. Auto Reticle is very quick, and seems to really get people. Plus, it is very quick to respond out of incase the attack misses. Super Speed is just........ :O It is no doubt my favorite offensive move. It is very quick hence the name "Super Speed," and can be canceled into a dash, up smash, and any aerial move, more preferably, back air, and neutral air which actually carries the opponent with Palutena. It's a very good move. Now on to teleport. Normally, I would have said rocket jump for this one, but due to rocket jump's short recovery and lack of use afterwards, teleport is my move to go. It's all because of that completely overlooked teleport cancel that makes this move to me very aggressive. And finally light weight. Because this move makes Palutena very quick and can make her jump high This move definitely helps me offensively. It's definitely good to have when your opponent's percentage is higher.


Moveset 2: Defensive Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Reflect

Teleport

Counter


This is pretty much Palutena's default moveset. The reason why I have Auto Reticle is because once again, it is very quick, but it also serves as a good spacing tool. Now on to Reflect. Reflect is a very excellent if not is this best reflect move in the game. It is very wide, and keeps a distance between the barrier and Palutena. And on top of that, it pushes people away. This is noticeably more effective while your opponent is in the air, and is a nightmare if your name is little mac. It's overall a very safe move. Teleport is a little self-explanatory. It's surprisingly very quick in getting you out of any situation. And finally Counter. I think we all know why that is a defensive move, but there is one little counter tech that Palutena has that some of you may or may not have known about. That is Palutena's counter slide. Palutena is the ONLY counter user in the game that can slide using her counter. To do this, you just simply walk or dash while the momentum is at it's max. Then after that, quickly use counter, and Palutena will quickly slide a good distance.


Moveset 3: kmpyj's Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Reflect

Teleport

Light Weight


This is by far my best and most favorite moveset to use. The reason why I prefer Auto Reticle over the others is because it is a move that I can use quickly and offensively. Explosive flame is good, but I just don't like the start up, and how easily you could get punished, and Heavenly Light really isn't good at all IMO. Next Reflect. The reason why I chose this one out of the others is because I love how a can use this defensively and offensively. It being able to push people back is a plus. I can't tell you how many times I comboed off of this move, or got a kill because it pushed someone off the stage. Angelic Missile is alright, but it really can't be followed up from, and super speed is very good, but it can be a little predictable. As for Teleport, I like this one over the others because it has the most tech involved IMO. More referring to that teleport cancel, which can trick my opponents, and or continuing to stay in pursuit with follow ups. Jump Glide is a good alternative, but once again, I just love the tech teleport has. And rocket jump is really just a one hit wonder. Finally, Light Weight. This move once again, expands my combo potential by making it so that I can follow up twice as fast than before. Celestial Fireworks is very good, but is just not for me, and counter is ok, but I rather be able to change my stats instead.


Overall, I really love Palutena's movesets. It took some time to get use to, but after a while, I am definitely pleased with her. In all honesty, I think Palutena is one of the most underestimated and over looked character on the roster. People give up on her way too quickly. It's a shame really, because there is potential in Palutena. I may not have been to EVO (yet) or I may not be some fancy dancy popularly known Smash elitist, but if there is one thing I do know it's that Palutena has potential, and I cannot wait to play as her at my best on the Wii U version.

I think Ike can also do the Counter trick but it's barely noticiable, on the Warp tech do you mean the ledge cancel trick or does it have something else I am not aware?

 

[kmpyj]

I think Ike can also do the Counter trick but it's barely noticiable, on the Warp tech do you mean the ledge cancel trick or does it have something else I am not aware?

Hmm, I didn't know Ike had one. And as far as the teleport tech, I was mainly referring to the edge cancel, however, there is one more edge trick that only applies to warp. If you use warp while you are off a ledge that has a slant to it, Palutena will actually snap on to the stage. It's kinda hard to explain but try using Palutena's teleport facing forward while off edges like final destination's and you will see what I mean.

 

[Burigu]

Hmm, I didn't know Ike had one. And as far as the teleport tech, I was mainly referring to the edge cancel, however, there is one more edge trick that only applies to warp. If you use warp while you are off a ledge that has a slant to it, Palutena will actually snap on to the stage. It's kinda hard to explain but try using Palutena's teleport facing forward while off edges like final destination's and you will see what I mean.

Ok thanks I will try by the way do you use warp as a dodge by "teleporting" just in place? I have done the move in training but I have yet to try if this is actually useful

 

[kmpyj]

Ok thanks I will try by the way do you use warp as a dodge by "teleporting" just in place? I have done the move in training but I have yet to try if this is actually useful

As far as dodges I mainly use her rolls, but for dodging a much larger scale attack, I use teleport. And as far as that second trick I pick up, the key thing about it is that Palutena lands with her fall recovery land animation, which is slightly faster than her teleport landing animation.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but I think I found my favorite Palutena movesets. I have 3 types that I switch from now and then. It's going to be a little long so bare with me.

Moveset 1: Aggressive Palutena:

Auto Reticle

Super Speed

Teleport

Light Weight

.

I would probably switch super speed or light weight with counter. That way just incase the opponent does get in on palutena you can regain momentum. I think super speed and light weight do the same thing with a few differences in between.

 

[rpgcaster]

How would you switch super speed for counter o_O

 

[kmpyj]

How would you switch super speed for counter o_O

I guess he was saying that since I had both super speed and light weight on one of my movesets, that if he where me, he would get rid of light weight since he considers light weight and super speed a little similar.

 

[Thinkaman]

Lightweight synergizes with Super Speed, since it opens up more followups at various %s, lets you chase the typical tackle-bair followup, and lets you use it farther off-stage safely.

Counter has some neat synergy as well.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Its just one of those things that depends on the player. Tbh I need to create some more movesets for myself