Mini Game | Werewolves win

[#HBC | J]

Hmm so there's only 2 townies left besides myself.

This is quite a peculiar situation to be in considering. I'm weighing the value of having the doc claim toDay so we have a clear to work with and that would help me because that means only finding one more townie and the game is solved.

Gears are turning. Still leaning on lynching Zalak, but I'm gonna sit on my vote for a bit because toDay is crunch time.

@ Orboknown : Slick to me has been a null read that is pretty low on the totem pole of concerns compared to other slots. However, now that the game is getting closer to everyone being scum, he could be as well and I have not been noticing him due to the apparent scumminess of other slots so far.

GRG NK looks like a NK to shoot out a suspect who could have been mafia.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also I can't be the only one thinking this, but Zalak's insistence on finding WW and not considering people for mafia reads as scum-slipping so hard that Zalak is mafia. Occam's Razor and all that jazz suggest that to me.

A head's up as well, we need to hit mafia toDay. They have the majority numbers and are the more pressing problem then the WW's currently because mafia can endgame sooner than WW's can.

 

[Zalak]

@ SlickWylde

I saw you lurking, but ya didn't respond to my questions.

This is quite a peculiar situation to be in considering. I'm weighing the value of having the doc claim toDay so we have a clear to work with and that would help me because that means only finding one more townie and the game is solved.

but then someone can just counter-claim and it becomes a whole mess. doc should only claim if they're like l-2 or something.

A head's up as well, we need to hit mafia toDay. They have the majority numbers and are the more pressing problem then the WW's currently because mafia can endgame sooner than WW's can.

can you explain in more detail why you think the maf is a more pressing problem? i am little bit confused about this endgame thing. is it... if they match the number of other players, they win, even if WWs are involved?

 

[SlickWylde]

@ Zalak - Okay, we're not going to get on the same page about your nk theory. So I'd like to know, besides that theory, what have I done that makes me look scummy? This goes for everyone. I'm more than happy to defend my posts.

You asked why I have a scum read on Orbo Koopa.

Orbo- I think he could be scum because of ThatSmasher. It's not fair to judge him ONLY based off that, but I mean, it wouldn't be fair to let him get a free pass. But he personally hasn't done anything too scummy since he took over.

Koopa- Partly because he's been somewhat quiet, and he hasn't posted that much useful content.

Zalak- I keep going back and forth. On the first day, I was totally with Zalak, and was sure he was town. Even on the 2nd day when he started accusing me, I didn't like his logic, but I think he was just wrong. But the more he posts, the more scum vibe I get from him.
BUT, all of his "bad" (In my opinoin) posts were on day 2, and mostly later in the day. I've seen more town friendly posts from him than I have from Koopa. So at this point, I'd like to hear from @ TheKingofKoopas , because he's going to be my top lynch unless something changes.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on both Zalak and Koopa.

 

[SlickWylde]

Zalak, give a man a minute to read lol.

 

[Orboknown]

@ SlickWylde

I saw you lurking, but ya didn't respond to my questions.


but then someone can just counter-claim and it becomes a whole mess. doc should only claim if they're like l-2 or something.



can you explain in more detail why you think the maf is a more pressing problem? i am little bit confused about this endgame thing. is it... if they match the number of other players, they win, even if WWs are involved?

doc cc would be a 1 for one at least, and in term of mafia win con
if its just them and ww left, the mafia wins it. The setup gives them that because they have no noghtkill and its impossible for them to convince ww to vote for themselves or for ww to convince mafia to vote for themselves

 

[Orboknown]

I did think Rosa was town, but this exchange

was nasty.

Like, so nasty.



Whether or not this is legitimate advice is irrelevant, because as I pointed out a post later, it did not apply to our situation in the end. Whether or not J realized that when he posted this is questionable, but instead of responding to my post afterwards, he outright ignores it, no defense, no response, and instead just likes Rosalina's post defending him.

For reference, here's what I posted after J's IC advice:

Your gonna have to explain why that tosa post was bad besides besides " it told me to ignore my opinion on the sitchiation and listen to someones advice (which is the whole point of this kind of game anyways)

 

[Zalak]

Zalak, give a man a minute to read lol.

Sorry It said you were not longer viewing the thread, so I figured you had gone to do something else.

I'd probably be willing to lynch Koopa, because at this point, with this number of scum players, I feel like he's probably scum, but I don't really have any reference point for how Koopa acts as scum/town. I can't recall anything particularly scummy that he's done, but he's been almost as inactive as RR, and he didn't have to replace anyone.

He's probably my #4 or #5 most scummy, but that's only because there are others who are more aggressively scummy.

Zalak would probably be my #8 on the most scummy list.

@ Zalak - Okay, we're not going to get on the same page about your nk theory. So I'd like to know, besides that theory, what have I done that makes me look scummy? This goes for everyone. I'm more than happy to defend my posts.

It's mostly just the NK analysis, particularly the way you reacted to it. I also dislike your general uncertainty. You've made a lot of posts saying how you're unsure of someone, and that's something I did a lot in my first mafia game, which was also my game on the mafia team. I feel like you have stronger opinions than you're letting on, and your play just feels too safe in general. I'm also kinda afraid of you because of your l4z0r tag mini performance , although I have nothing to base your town play on, so that's more null. You've definitely moved down in priority for me. I'd put you at #2 or #3 most scummy.

 

[Zalak]

Your gonna have to explain why that tosa post was bad besides besides " it told me to ignore my opinion on the sitchiation and listen to someones advice (which is the whole point of this kind of game anyways)

I will do you one better. I will explain why this whole event looks bad for BOTH OF THEM.
I don't understand how I can be the only one who sees the malicious intent behind J's post. FIRST OF ALL,

Well I can see you giving mafia tips as scummy because it seems you are feigning content rather than looking for scum. Especially recently as of earlier. I would also advise on just focusing on playing the game instead of giving mafia tips because that is what the ICs are around to do. However, I am taking the approach of just playing the game and giving a thematic view of how a lot of people play the game and then answer questions as people need them.

So to help you get away from that rail of "advice", who implicitly do you find scummy? Give me your biggest two scum-reads and then give me one person you are not looking at for being on either of the teams.

do any of you remember this post? J's "I'm not gonna be dishing out advice" post? It seems weird that he suddenly changed his mind only when it suited him. It was his nindo.... his ninja way...

If he gave someone advice that wasn't a blatant manipulation, I'd be okay with it.

Yeah, but it came to a point where I explicitly stated that I thought you were hiding something/trying not to slip up by giving a detailed read, and you still refused to add to the conversation, despite being asked. Despite the fact that your refusal to talk was very clearly making me suspicious of you, and adding more hysteria to the game. If you say no to a theory, and someone asks for for an explanation, I believe it's on you to give that explanation. You also could have just said exactly what you said just now earlier, and that would have been better than simply ignoring my requests. Like, to me, the way you wrote off my request for an explanation kind of feels like you were coasting on being an IC, and being seen as a superior player. Because you're an IC, you just said nah, this noob doesn't know what he's doing, so I'm gonna ignore him.

not cool dude

not cool



Answering my requests was very clearly a better option for the town than what you did. That's all there really is to say on the matter. I'll listen to your advice after this game is over, and I know what your role is.

If he had actually responded to this, and said something like "yeah, my bad, I should have said something earlier, but my IC advice still stands in most cases", I would say okay, maybe this isn't a manipulation after all. But that is not what happened.

When he says, I'm giving you advice as an IC, he means that it's good advice, and applies generally, not just in this particular case. And I agree with the advice he gave. Yes, he used it to ignore your point, but he's explaining why he is and giving you some legitimate advice. Like, actually, that's good advice. Trust him. He wouldn't be IC if he was going to abuse it.

J ignored me, and then liked this post by Rosa.

AND THEN THIS POST BY ROSA....

Rosa claims that J wouldn't be an IC if he was going to abuse his power, but J is so obviously tying his advice into our current situation. I believe my response to his post explains pretty well why J's advice didn't work for our situation, and then after reading that, and before letting J actually respond for himself, Rosa jumps in to defend J. Rosa speaks in J's place, and J takes this opportunity to just not speak. If Rosalina agrees with J's advice, then why did they jump in so prematurely? Wasn't J's point to NOT get in they way of disputes like that?

 

[SlickWylde]

@ Zalak
When you say it like that, I can see much more why you're suspicious of me, and I have no problem with that. My issue wasn't that your theory was impossible, it was just that it was not true in my case, and I didn't really think it was true in Generic's case either, and that there were many alternatives.

Here's my argument against being real confident:

So the WW have 1 person they know the identity of. Which means they would know that 3/6 of the other people are Mafia. They have 50% chance of finding Mafia. To them, killing anyone except their partner would be good. And then they get a night kill, so they're most likely going to kill at least 1 scum.

The Mafia would have 2 other people that they know the identity of. With 2/5 other people being WW, they'd have 40% chance of finding WW. To them, killing anyone except their partners would be good, but even better would be the WW.

The Townies/Doctor have 3/8 people, but they don't know the identity of their teammates. With 5/7 of the other people being Mafia/Werewolf, they have 71% of finding scum. To them, killing Mafia would be ideal. Killing one WW, and hoping the WW kills a Mafia could keep the game going. But because they have 0 additional information, they have a decent chance of killing one of their own, which would pretty much end the game.

So I advise caution, not confidence, because this could be our last day.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

All I can say about my inactivity is that college is a thing. I understand it looks bad, though.

Occam's Razor and all that jazz suggest that to me.

Can you explain what Occam's Razor is?

do any of you remember this post? J's "I'm not gonna be dishing out advice" post? It seems weird that he suddenly changed his mind only when it suited him. It was his nindo.... his ninja way...

Can you quote all of the times J gave advice later on? It's getting hard to remember what posts were on what page, and keeping them all together would be nice to keep track of.

I'd probably be willing to lynch Koopa, because at this point, with this number of scum players, I feel like he's probably scum, but I don't really have any reference point for how Koopa acts as scum/town. I can't recall anything particularly scummy that he's done, but he's been almost as inactive as RR, and he didn't have to replace anyone.

He's probably my #4 or #5 most scummy, but that's only because there are others who are more aggressively scummy.

Willing to lynch me over activity? I can understand wanting me to talk and THEN think about lynching if I don't comply, but you even said there are others you find more aggressively scummy, and that I was number 4 or 5.
Speaking of which, if you're going to number people by how scummy they are, can you show me the full list?

I'm really considering whether the doctor should role claim or not. So far the WWs seem to be going after Mafia members, and that probably won't change soon unless our next lynch flips Mafia. @ ~ Gheb ~ Can the doctors choose to protect themselves? If they can, and they're really worried WW are going to go after them, they can always protect themselves.

 

[Zalak]

@ SlickWylde

I'm fine with your caution today, but your uncertainty is something that his persisted throughout basically the entire game. You've always seemed afraid to put yourself out there and say "ALRIGHT, I THINK THIS PERSON IS TOWN" or "ARLIGHT, I THINK THIS PERSON IS SCUM". If you have examples that prove me wrong though, I'd love to see them.

Can you quote all of the times J gave advice later on? It's getting hard to remember what posts were on what page, and keeping them all together would be nice to keep track of.

This is the only other example I could find of J giving advice, but this doesn't seem very devious to me.

As the IC, I'll say something.

WIFOM is not a credible source of evidence and also something that should not be used to support a case. However, WIFOM can start a conversation, however, it is faulty logic inherently.

Occam's Razor is usually a good way to deduce things by looking at the simplest solution being the right one. Most mafia games hosted here have a hard time with that regarding set-up shenanigans. But using the simplest logical solution can be resourceful and lead to helpful answers.

Can you explain what Occam's Razor is?

I believe Occam's Razor basically when you're confronted with more than one conflicting theory, if you have to pick one, you should go with the tone that involves making the least assumptions.

Willing to lynch me over activity? I can understand wanting me to talk and THEN think about lynching if I don't comply, but you even said there are others you find more aggressively scummy, and that I was number 4 or 5.
Speaking of which, if you're going to number people by how scummy they are, can you show me the full list?

You're right, it does make sense to have you talk first. I guess what I was trying to say is odds are, you're scum, and if I had to guess I'd say you're scum.

Who is your #1 most scummy, and who is your #1 most townie?

As for my list, I don't have it completely worked out but

1-3 tier is
slick, j, and Rosa in no particular order. I'm pretty sure they're all scum.
4-6 is
you, spak, and orbo
7 is
Red Ryu. He hasn't posted all that much, but he just gives me good vibes. I feel like he's town.

 

[#HBC | J]

Translation of Zalak scum-reads!

Tier 1-3
The two people who started the Zalak dislike (Oh-My-God-You-Suck) reads. And Slick.
Tier 4-6
Let's lump the rest/null reads
Tier 7
The inactive. So I'll call him town just because.

Welp, that was easy to deduce.

 

[Zalak]

give me a break

 

[#HBC | J]

Am I wrong though?

 

[Zalak]

let met give you the REAL translation

1-3
the most evil criminals in the world
4-6
the people i haven't had time to properly analyze because i have been too focused on the most evil criminals in the world. I could order them, but I'd prefer to wait until later on in the day.
7
GUT
FEELING

also i have an old zalak quote that perfectly explains why J is the most evil criminal in the world.

wait nevermind that quote was too specific to the situation i was in that game.

so i'm going to make a NEW

IMPROVED

ZALAK QUOTE

"LAW NUMBER 1 OF MAFIA:

If you are a townie, you have NO REASON TO DEFLECT PRESSURE, unless you are pressed for time. Especially when your slot is under-investigated, it's important to cooperate with the ones pressing you, and answer their questions/defend yourself from their accusations before anything else. If you're town, you'll naturally appear more town the more you cooperate. AS A TOWN MEMBER, the truth is on your side, and you have nothing to fear. Mafia members on the other hand, burn in the spotlight"

There are certain cases where it's best to call out an accusation as BS instead of giving a proper defense, but the bottom line is...

I haven't heard a proper defense from J this entire game. He's being more deflective than anyone I've ever seen in my time playing forum mafia.

 

[Zalak]

@ RosalinaSGS @Spak @ TheKingofKoopas @Red Ryu @ SlickWylde @ Orboknown

how do you all feel about @ #HBC | J ?

 

[#HBC | J]

No one's directly come at me and no one's even voted me so I have nothing to defend so far.

Also I haven't been deflecting anything. I have just not been responding to you because I do not want to nor see any merit in it.

You're also against me because I was the first one to vocalize disdain for your slot. Ever since that, you've been jumping down my throat on every post I make nearly and also for my disagreeance with your Generic push originally which I was correct upon. You've been wrong on nearly every read this game and I hold 0 trust in your slot.

I have nothing to defend because I have been 100% upfront on everything I feel about this game. You have a problem with it? My response is, tough luck.

I feel you are scum and I do not believe I have to do nearly anything towards your slot besides lynch you and find your buddies. Plain and simple.

 

[Zalak]

No one's directly come at me

This is not true.

Also I haven't been deflecting anything. I have just not been responding to you because I do not want to nor see any merit in it.

okay well this is the scummiest thing i've ever heard in my entire life.

it's also pretty much the exact opposite of what a townie should be doing according to law number 1 of mafia. how long did you say you've been playing this game???

You're also against me because I was the first one to vocalize disdain for your slot. Ever since that, you've been jumping down my throat on every post I make nearly and also for my disagreeance with your Generic push originally which I was correct upon. You've been wrong on nearly every read this game and I hold 0 trust in your slot.

there u go again trying to bend reality to your will

I actually get extremely BAD vibes from J. I don't think it's fair to judge him by what little he's posted though.

this was posted long before you ever attacked me.

anyways, if you don't count RadicalRat (the dude who CLAIMED MAFIA), I'm 1-2 on my reads. I got Generic and Green wrong, but I was right to defend Kary. also I think everyone thought Generic was bad (including you :/), and most people thought Green was bad.

 

[#HBC | J]

Zalak, you're starting to get into that territory of annoying me greatly with your slight jabs at me being an IC and saying that I would manipulate that to win a game where (being honest) I'm the strongest player in the playerlist, how long I've played this game (which has been around 5 years on this forum and others), plus let's top it off with the fact that you have not been reading what I've been posting and flat out ignoring things I've said is really getting me irked.

For a newbie, you're becoming quite precocious and I'm not afraid to nip that in the bud. Don't test me, I'm playing nice since it's a newbie game, but the gloves are about to come off.

 

[#HBC | J]

Let me re-iterate:

This is all in-game and not personally. I'm just tired of this post battle you've sucked me into and making me the new Rad/Generic/GRG. You are being incredibly stubborn and not listening because if you are town, you are not helping in the slightest currently and you are on the path to be lynched. So if you are town, I urge you to back off my slot and look somewhere else and start rectifying your behavior.

However, the hole you've dug yourself is immense so it would take a miracle for me to not steamroll you out of here.

 

[Zalak]

"Stop pressing me or else"

Anyways, I will step back now, because I want to hear the opinions of the other players.

 

[#HBC | J]

"Stop pressing me or else"

Dude, my .gif folder is already opened and you do not want to know what that means for your fate if you continue posts like these.

Don't strawman me and it's more of a chance for you to do something else, but if this is the route you wanna take. *shrug*

 

[Zalak]

Dude, my .gif folder is already opened and you do not want to know what that means for your fate if you continue posts like these.

Don't strawman me and it's more of a chance for you to do something else, but if this is the route you wanna take. *shrug*

tch
*flips hair*
don't flatter yourself, J.

It may feel like my push on you is taking up all of my time, but I'm actually waiting on Koopa and Slick to respond to my questions right now.

AND
I
AM
NOT
DONE
WITH
YOU
YET

just taking a

as to not let the other players remain silent

 

[#HBC | J]

I...don't understand your game at all.

You are literally your own worst enemy.

 

[Zalak]

oh.. and a teaser for things to come....

let me tell you my ultimate secret....

i can read minds

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Zalek
koops
rosa
slick
spak
me
we got this already J

Why makes you think Spak's town?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

If this happens (Zalak being lynched) and he flips town, I'd like J lynched plz. If Zalak does flip scum, it could be SvS but I think J is mostly off the hook.

That's conceivable.

 

[Zalak]

Why makes you think Spak's town?

i thought that was just him listing the people who voted generic?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

anyways, not liking Rosa, Slick, or J

Rosa and J seem buddy buddy, or like they're using each other to rise to the top. I don't think I've seen either of them post anything even remotely accusatory towards the other. I'd buy J just thinking Rosa is town, but Rosa defending J seems icky to me.

also, J said he likes to turn games on their heads, so wouldn't it make sense for him to want to investigate one of the most strongly town-read players?

lol, buddy buddy? I don't even have him as a solid town read. We've merely come to the same conclusions multiple times. My 'defence' of him was just common sense, and faith in the IC system. Ask any of the ICs, and they'll tell you his advice was legitimate advice, good advice, advice you should follow.

Consider my vote 'on' Zalak. (This has nothing to do with the previous paragraph. He was just on top of my to-lynch list, and I still haven't forgiven him for NK analysis.)

 

[RosalinaSGS]

i thought that was just him listing the people who voted generic?

Oh, really? Lol, I thought that was his to-lynch list from top to bottom.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

@ Zalak What are your opinions on everyone? In a simple to-lynch list with reasons. And also why you shouldn't be lynched.

 

[Zalak]

lol, buddy buddy? I don't even have him as a solid town read. We've merely come to the same conclusions multiple times. My 'defence' of him was just common sense, and faith in the IC system. Ask any of the ICs, and they'll tell you his advice was legitimate advice, good advice, advice you should follow.

Like I've tried to explain, it wasn't about the quality of the advice, but the circumstances surrounding it. I feel like you're misunderstanding me.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Especially your thoughts on Koops.

YOLO, YOLO, 10 seconds.

 

[Zalak]

Oh, really? Lol, I thought that was his to-lynch list from top to bottom.

I actually thought that at first glance too

@ Zalak What are your opinions on everyone? In a simple to-lynch list with reasons. And also why you shouldn't be lynched.

do you mean like a lynch order, from most lynchworthy to least?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Like I've tried to explain, it wasn't about the quality of the advice, but the circumstances surrounding it. I feel like you're misunderstanding me.

Hm... yeah, woops. What you're saying actually seems fair enough. I'll have another look at J. There isn't much I can say about your accusations, other than that I wasn't trying to do that.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I actually thought that at first glance too


do you mean like a lynch order, from most lynchworthy to least?

Like what I thought Orbo's was. But with comments and reasons.

YOLO, Yolo, 10 seconds.

 

[Zalak]

Hm... yeah, woops. What you're saying actually seems fair enough. I'll have another look at J. There isn't much I can say about your accusations, other than that I wasn't trying to do that.

COOLIO B). I may have jumped to conclusions on you based on a miscommunication. Be sure to lemme know what you think about J when you figure it out.

Like what I thought Orbo's was. But with comments and reasons.

YOLO, Yolo, 10 seconds.

Gotcha

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I will do you one better. I will explain why this whole event looks bad for BOTH OF THEM.
I don't understand how I can be the only one who sees the malicious intent behind J's post. FIRST OF ALL,

do any of you remember this post? J's "I'm not gonna be dishing out advice" post? It seems weird that he suddenly changed his mind only when it suited him. It was his nindo.... his ninja way...

If he gave someone advice that wasn't a blatant manipulation, I'd be okay with it.

If he had actually responded to this, and said something like "yeah, my bad, I should have said something earlier, but my IC advice still stands in most cases", I would say okay, maybe this isn't a manipulation after all. But that is not what happened.


J ignored me, and then liked this post by Rosa.

AND THEN THIS POST BY ROSA....

Rosa claims that J wouldn't be an IC if he was going to abuse his power, but J is so obviously tying his advice into our current situation. I believe my response to his post explains pretty well why J's advice didn't work for our situation, and then after reading that, and before letting J actually respond for himself, Rosa jumps in to defend J. Rosa speaks in J's place, and J takes this opportunity to just not speak. If Rosalina agrees with J's advice, then why did they jump in so prematurely? Wasn't J's point to NOT get in they way of disputes like that?

If you want a legit answer to this, I was still ticked off by your insistent NK analysis, so was taking any excuse to object to you, attack you, put you in a bad light possible. And your IC comment seemed too good an opportunity to pass up.
But my opinion of you is slowly changing. Maybe...

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Sorry It said you were not longer viewing the thread, so I figured you had gone to do something else.

I'd probably be willing to lynch Koopa, because at this point, with this number of scum players, I feel like he's probably scum, but I don't really have any reference point for how Koopa acts as scum/town. I can't recall anything particularly scummy that he's done, but he's been almost as inactive as RR, and he didn't have to replace anyone.

He's probably my #4 or #5 most scummy, but that's only because there are others who are more aggressively scummy.

Zalak would probably be my #8 on the most scummy list.



It's mostly just the NK analysis, particularly the way you reacted to it. I also dislike your general uncertainty. You've made a lot of posts saying how you're unsure of someone, and that's something I did a lot in my first mafia game, which was also my game on the mafia team. I feel like you have stronger opinions than you're letting on, and your play just feels too safe in general. I'm also kinda afraid of you because of your l4z0r tag mini performance , although I have nothing to base your town play on, so that's more null. You've definitely moved down in priority for me. I'd put you at #2 or #3 most scummy.

I kinda like this post. More the latter part than the NK analysis. That's the sort of stuff I want to see.
Slick: Neutral