Mini Game | Werewolves win

[Zalak]

My biggest issue with GenericHandle is since his FIRST POST, he's seemed hyper-concerned about his appearance.

Huh... The first day is always the hardest in mafia games. Well, since there's litterally nothing to go on, I'll conserve my vote for now. Go townies!

Not only can this be considered fake content, but he also ends his first post with "Go townies!" to remind us that he is on the side of the town. Now, it makes sense to be enthusiastic at the beginning of games. If this were an isolated incident I wouldn't think anything of it, but Generic has continued leaving little reminders like this throughout the entire game.

I'm confused. I'm a townie (do people say townie here? It was widely used on the other forum I played on), so I don't know anyone else's roles. Green could be scum, or he could not, but he hasn't done anything particularly incriminating...

If I wanted to kill smasher and had the opportunity to do it with more efficency and use my (nonexistent) nightkill elsewhere, I'd do it. Especially because everyone thinks smasher is scum, so no one would point fingers at me.

I'm on mobile right now, I'll address the rest of that post later. I did purposely stop liking so many posts once it was mentioned, because I don't *need* to like posts, so why give fuel to (false) accusations against me?

There are actually a couple more, but in the context of those, it kinda made sense for him to reiterate his townieness, so I'm not going to include those. Alright, so what's so suspicious about this? In mafia, you obviously want to come across as a townie, right? WRONG! Well, partially right. In the end, townies want to appear innocent, as they don't want to be the target of a lynch, but they have the truth on their side. In most cases, a townie will appear innocent naturally just by posting content. Admittedly, the second two quotes were during defenses of his, so it makes sense that he would try to remind us of his role. The other examples still stand our as fishy to me, however.

AND IT DOESN'T STOP THERE!

There are a couple instances of Generic ASKING if anyone was suspicious of him. It's like his trying to preemptively shoot down accusations against him, instead of focusing on the task at hand. If he's a townie, then why isn't he taking these chances to focus on investigating other players? Hiding in the shadows is an issue, but shining the spotlight on yourself without being asked is shifty as well.

This is super interesting

Quick strawpoll: like this post if you think I'm a werewolf.

Also: anyone else wanna accuse me of being a WW now? I need to procrastinate a bit more before school.

This seem weird to anyone else?

Finally, there are two isolated incidents from Generic that rubbed me the wrong way.

We win! Gg, scum.

I never actually suspected Zalak, and I lied about those little numbers. They're an A=1 B=2 etc cypher stating "this vote carries no legitimacy it exists to evoke a reaction" you can check if you like. I did it for style points and proof that this was premeditated as opposed to backpedaling.

There were two responses to the bait I was looking for from you: the logical town one, or the opportunistic scum one. You took the ladder.

Zalak, you were good bait

Unvote

Vote: Radical Rat

Again, he's leaving a small reminder of his allegiance to the town, AND...

My claim against Zalak was total BS. You should have just called me out on that.

Now that I think about it, this trap doesn't make sense. If his accusation was obviously BS, then why WOULDN'T a town member call it scummy? Fake accusations are something I strongly associates with scum teams. At the time, I was only bothered by this because I felt like RadicalRat gave up suspiciously early, but now I see that Generic celebrated too early as well. Did he really believe that a townie would call his accusation out and leave it alone afterwards, while scum would call it out and accuse him for it? It just seems like anyone would accuse him to me.

Zalak, you're the most trustworthy player right now imo. Is this a mafia gambit (I pulled something like this as mafia once a long time ago and it won me the game) or is he telling the truth?

FINALLY, I feel like right here he could be using me as a shield to hide behind while he lynches Radical. Since very early on in the game, he has stated that he has a gut feeling that I'm scum, and now he's calling me the most trustworthy player? He did note earlier that his stance on me was gradually changing, but why would he trust my opinion more than his own? My guess is that because we were actually close to lynching someone, he decided to ask for clearance from another player before voting, so no one could blame him for lynching a townie.

Anyways, that's all I have for now. Thoughts? @everyone

 

[Zalak]

Okay. That post just kinda struck me the wrong way. I agree that it's unfair, because we have no way of finding out what he is, since he doesn't give us anything.

Have you voted yet? I'd like to see your vote.

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me!

Vote: *GenericHandle*

 

[Zalak]

Vote: Generic Handle

I don't think I bolded it...

 

[Zalak]

wait now I've spelled his name wrong.

gotta do this RIGHT

Vote: *GenericHandle*

 

[Kaladin]

3rd time's the charm

I'll refute that once I get home to my actual keyboard.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

I'm here to present my case against ThatSmasher, partially because its about time I made a post like this and partially because Slick requested it. Let's begin.

---

I've been on Smasher's case since Day 1, both in game and in real life. It was clear to me that he was just voting for the most popular candidate, as proven by the following post. The 'like' is even still there if you wish to check.

Uh, I'm confused. You liked Spak's post about accidental D1 lynching, so I'm assuming you agreed with him. What other reason would you vote for him?

When confronted with my question, he replied very poorly:

-___- Don't trust anyone.

This response can easily be discredited with something he said earlier.
quote="ThatSmasherYouKnow, post: 19994891, member: 328048"]Hmm, I really don't know who to trust anymore. I have two suspicious people, but I'm not so sure.[/quote]
Here he says that he only has two people of interest, not "everyone". Combined with voting for Generic solely because everyone else was, it is clear that Smasher was bandwagoning off the most popular vote early in the game. Unfortunately, this doesn't tell us much. It does tell us that he's a noob, but nothing else. Smasher later confirmed this fact, stating that he was indeed a noob, hence why he was doing so much bandwagoning. He made this point very clear several times.

And truthfully, I believe that. His posts honestly don't really flow that well. They're a bit choppy, which is what I would expect from a noob. However, he has yet to make an explanation for the following post:

So sure about that?

Now we need to determine if this was a noob mistake, or something more.


Now to play to devil's advocate. ThatSmasher has shown no ill will or any sort of malicious intent. The FIRST post he made in the game was:

Vote: No Lynch

Did he really mean this? Was he just saying this to appear as a townie? I don't believe so. Remember that ThatSmasher was easily persuaded by the other players early in the game, and Kary just happened to make this post not soon after:

Hello, I am Kary, here to answer your noob questions and 'set a good example'.

I expect you all to vote for someone because this is how we start the game rolling.

I believe that he saw this post and decided to start voting, thus the bandwagoning began.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Crap, I accidentally posted that. SORRY I wasn't done

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Also, a quote broke. ugh

 

[Kaladin]

I'll also be laying out the main few (I'm not sure how many yet, I need to check a few previous posts) people I find suspicious, and why.

 

[Kaladin]

....later tonight. I also accidently posted.

 

[SlickWylde]

We get it, jeez! No need to say it three time!

Okay, I see some good points. Although I think a lot of us are guilty of either saying "I'm town" or "Who suspects me". In fact, the whole reason my name got brought up in the first place is because I asked Generic what he thought of me. It was really because he mentioned all the active players at the time except me, so I was wondering if he was afraid to say something about me, or if he would try to buddy buddy me. But that's what started the whole RR accusing me.

However, Generic didn't shift his vote to me when people started being suspicious of me, or gang up on me, which I think is a good sign. I'll be interested to see his defense.

I'll try to read through the forum again too to see if I can find any other suspects.

@ GreenReaperGod it sounds like you say "I think he's guilty, but I dunno, maybe not." Which is fine sometimes, I've done that with certain people, but because I had a bigger target. Who are you voting for? Are you confident of anyone?

I find your lack of faith (or commitment, really) disturbing.

 

[Spak]

Vote: Spak

I'd like you to answer my questions and talk to me for a bit. I've asked that a bit ago, but you've yet to follow up on this. I'm growing concerned with your slot the more you post.

Fire away.

 

[SlickWylde]

Fire away.

It sounds like he's saying he's already asked questions (which I haven't seen either) just fyi.

Have you voted for anyone yet?

 

[GreenReaperGod]

@ GreenReaperGod it sounds like you say "I think he's guilty, but I dunno, maybe not." Which is fine sometimes, I've done that with certain people, but because I had a bigger target. Who are you voting for? Are you confident of anyone?

I find your lack of faith (or commitment, really) disturbing.

I originally had the mindset that he was scum, no questions asked. After all, the evidence certainly points toward that, but then I wanted to go back and look over his posts with a different POV, a POV that he's just a noob. Look at these following posts that were made around the time that RadicalRat had "admitted" he was mafia. They were really what made me decide to do this.

Wait, who confessed? Generic?

I feel like you're trying to intentionally be oblivious and act like you don't know what's going on. Maybe this is because I'm pretty sure you're scum already, but either way, I'll have my eye on you.

With the mindset that he was scum, this post immediately looked very suspicious. At the time, I was sure that he and Radical were scum buddies. Of course, as we all know, Radical wasn't a mafia member at all.

It is crucial that we lynch a weremaf toDay. If we happen to lynch a townie, it is very likely that we'll see another townie fall during the night. By then, we'll only have 3 townies left and the scum will have us outnumbered. We have to be very careful, and mindlessly lynching Smasher is not the way to go.

 

[Zalak]

....later tonight. I also accidently posted.

Crap, I accidentally posted that. SORRY I wasn't done

to be continued....

 

[Spak]

It sounds like he's saying he's already asked questions (which I haven't seen either) just fyi.

Have you voted for anyone yet?

Nope, haven't voted for anyone yet. Now that you mention it, though, I do want TSYK out of the way from his scummy play all days long. He's put up nearly every red flag and he's either one of the worst-playing town I've ever seen or scum.

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnow

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll be here fully in half an hour or so.

 

[Kaladin]

My biggest issue with GenericHandle is since his FIRST POST, he's seemed hyper-concerned about his appearance.

Not only can this be considered fake content, but he also ends his first post with "Go townies!" to remind us that he is on the side of the town. Now, it makes sense to be enthusiastic at the beginning of games. If this were an isolated incident I wouldn't think anything of it, but Generic has continued leaving little reminders like this throughout the entire game.



There are actually a couple more, but in the context of those, it kinda made sense for him to reiterate his townieness, so I'm not going to include those. Alright, so what's so suspicious about this? In mafia, you obviously want to come across as a townie, right? WRONG! Well, partially right. In the end, townies want to appear innocent, as they don't want to be the target of a lynch, but they have the truth on their side. In most cases, a townie will appear innocent naturally just by posting content. Admittedly, the second two quotes were during defenses of his, so it makes sense that he would try to remind us of his role. The other examples still stand our as fishy to me, however.

AND IT DOESN'T STOP THERE!

There are a couple instances of Generic ASKING if anyone was suspicious of him. It's like his trying to preemptively shoot down accusations against him, instead of focusing on the task at hand. If he's a townie, then why isn't he taking these chances to focus on investigating other players? Hiding in the shadows is an issue, but shining the spotlight on yourself without being asked is shifty as well.


This seem weird to anyone else?

Finally, there are two isolated incidents from Generic that rubbed me the wrong way.

Again, he's leaving a small reminder of his allegiance to the town, AND...

Now that I think about it, this trap doesn't make sense. If his accusation was obviously BS, then why WOULDN'T a town member call it scummy? Fake accusations are something I strongly associates with scum teams. At the time, I was only bothered by this because I felt like RadicalRat gave up suspiciously early, but now I see that Generic celebrated too early as well. Did he really believe that a townie would call his accusation out and leave it alone afterwards, while scum would call it out and accuse him for it? It just seems like anyone would accuse him to me.


FINALLY, I feel like right here he could be using me as a shield to hide behind while he lynches Radical. Since very early on in the game, he has stated that he has a gut feeling that I'm scum, and now he's calling me the most trustworthy player? He did note earlier that his stance on me was gradually changing, but why would he trust my opinion more than his own? My guess is that because we were actually close to lynching someone, he decided to ask for clearance from another player before voting, so no one could blame him for lynching a townie.

Anyways, that's all I have for now. Thoughts? @everyone

Objection!

The supposed hyper-concern with my appearance can be linked back to real-life. In real life, I pretty much live and breath competitive speech and debate. In debate, you generally want to use strong rhetoric that re-iterates your correctness whenever possible. For example, when I said "If I wanted to kill smasher and had the opportunity to do it with more efficency and use my (nonexistent) nightkill elsewhere, I'd do it. Especially because everyone thinks smasher is scum, so no one would point fingers at me." my debate brain sees that as an opportunity to restate my position while still effectively dealing with the task at hand. Probably not the best mafia habit, but yeah.

I asked if anyone is suspicious of me for two reasons (the same reasons on both occasions) first, to collect data. I want to know who thinks what, including about me. Secondly, I like to be prompt with my replies. On both occasions, I wanted to deal with any accusations asap, because I had time to write in-depth.

In regards to my trap, it only made sense in the context of RR (which, I was obviously wrong, but I'll explain my line of thinking). RR, throughout the game, acted exceedingly opportunistically and pounced on the tiniest of things, like Kary's joke. That is the main reason I suspected him, and I wanted to see if it would be a trend, where he does anything possible to divert suspicion away from himself onto someone else.

Finally, as I stated previously, I had a gut feeling about you and Kary being scum, but nothing substantiated. However, throughout the course of D1, I feel your posts were an overall asset to the town, as well as not doing anything particularly scummy, but still maintaining activity. That is why I find you the most trustworthy. Furthermore, you were the one who originally attacked RR: if I were planning on using you as a shield, I would be focused on painting you in the worst light possible for cleverly tricking us into lynching rat.

Did I forget anything?

 

[Spak]

Did I forget anything?

You forgot an Edgeworth pic.

 

[Kaladin]

You forgot an Edgeworth pic.

I actually had one I was going to insert, but smash boards is a little *****.

 

[Zalak]

Finally, as I stated previously, I had a gut feeling about you and Kary being scum, but nothing substantiated. However, throughout the course of D1, I feel your posts were an overall asset to the town, as well as not doing anything particularly scummy, but still maintaining activity. That is why I find you the most trustworthy.

This still doesn't explain why you would trust my opinion more than your own. I had been pushing Rat the entire game, so you probably already knew how I would respond, and even if you didn't, I can see no reason for you to trust Rat's greatest rival this game over yourself.

Furthermore, you were the one who originally attacked RR: if I were planning on using you as a shield, I would be focused on painting you in the worst light possible for cleverly tricking us into lynching rat.

"There's something about this particular setup that proves his defense wrong... but what is it?"
- It's full of newbies
- It has ICs
- There are more than 10 players
- There are multiple scum factions

In this game, even the scum factions have to work to find the other scum! As a werewolf, you'd still be uncertain of RadicalRat's role. You can't make me look like I'm tricking ya'll into lynching RadicalRat before you know Radical's role yourself!

 

[Zalak]

Wait, that's not quite right.... as a werewolf, you'd probably feel more or less certain that he's mafia. As a mafia member, you'd know that he wasn't mafia, and that he could only be scum if he was a werewolf. That's why you were so concerned he was actually a townie.

 

[Zalak]

@ Spak

Now that you know J has already asked his questions, are you going to answer them?

 

[Spak]

Now that you know J has already asked his questions, are you going to answer them?

I'm not sure what questions he means. Could someone please give me question post numbers or something?

 

[Kaladin]

Wait, that's not quite right.... as a werewolf, you'd probably feel more or less certain that he's mafia. As a mafia member, you'd know that he wasn't mafia, and that he could only be scum if he was a werewolf. That's why you were so concerned he was actually a townie.

I mean now, that we all know he's a townie. You tricked us into lynching a townie would be the argument.

As for trusting your opinion over my own... I don't. However, I do value your opinion and wanted confirmation/consideration.

 

[Zalak]

Ryu or Spak, I'd like to talk to you two/form a connection toDay. So let's start that. Tell me your opinions for toDay.

could this be what he's talking about?

post#993

 

[Zalak]

I mean now, that we all know he's a townie. You tricked us into lynching a townie would be the argument.

Aye.. aye, but we didn't know that yesterday. You don't have as much of a reason to focus on that today, because no one blamed you for lynching RadicalRat.

 

[SlickWylde]

I originally had the mindset that he was scum, no questions asked. After all, the evidence certainly points toward that, but then I wanted to go back and look over his posts with a different POV, a POV that he's just a noob. Look at these following posts that were made around the time that RadicalRat had "admitted" he was mafia. They were really what made me decide to do this.


With the mindset that he was scum, this post immediately looked very suspicious. At the time, I was sure that he and Radical were scum buddies. Of course, as we all know, Radical wasn't a mafia member at all.

It is crucial that we lynch a weremaf toDay. If we happen to lynch a townie, it is very likely that we'll see another townie fall during the night. By then, we'll only have 3 townies left and the scum will have us outnumbered. We have to be very careful, and mindlessly lynching Smasher is not the way to go.

I agree that we shouldn't mindlessly vote for anyone. I don't see how lynching TSYK would be mindless. In fact, I think he has the most evidence against him. And the only defense for him is "he's a noob". But you haven't voted for anyone this round, or provided information shedding light on anyone, have you? If we shouldn't vote for TSYK, then WHO should we vote for? Look, I'm not dead set on lynching him. I'm dead set on lynching the most guilty party. Is there someone else who's more guilty looking to you?

If I'm wrong and you have voted, or if you think you have provided evidence against someone let me know. I just looked through the last pages and didn't see anything. If you don't feel he's guilty, don't vote. But stop with the wishy washy "Yeah, he seems guilty, but he's a noob, so I dunno." without adding another suspect. Am I making sense?

 

[Zalak]

@ SlickWylde

So has my argument with Generic changed your read on him at all? If you'd like to wait things out a bit, that's fine, but I want to hear what you think about him soon.

 

[Kaladin]

I agree that we shouldn't mindlessly vote for anyone. I don't see how lynching TSYK would be mindless. In fact, I think he has the most evidence against him. And the only defense for him is "he's a noob". But you haven't voted for anyone this round, or provided information shedding light on anyone, have you? If we shouldn't vote for TSYK, then WHO should we vote for? Look, I'm not dead set on lynching him. I'm dead set on lynching the most guilty party. Is there someone else who's more guilty looking to you?

If I'm wrong and you have voted, or if you think you have provided evidence against someone let me know. I just looked through the last pages and didn't see anything. If you don't feel he's guilty, don't vote. But stop with the wishy washy "Yeah, he seems guilty, but he's a noob, so I dunno." without adding another suspect. Am I making sense?

An excellent point.

Unvote

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnow

 

[Spak]

could this be what he's talking about?

post#993

I already gave my reads at the start of today at J's request.

 

[SlickWylde]

@ SlickWylde

So has my argument with Generic changed your read on him at all? If you'd like to wait things out a bit, that's fine, but I want to hear what you think about him soon.

I think that shows me that you pay attention to detail and are good at finding evidence, for sure. As far as changing my opinion on him, that's hard. Because initially I had him as 70% scum, but he moved down to about 50%. This definitely puts him on my Fingers of Suspicion list again. But I feel like he's done a better job of posting since those, and has contributed. That could be him being scum actually trying to find other scum, or it could be him getting ganged up on at the beginning.

If he had done what TSYK had, and not contributed anything useful and made bad defenses, I would probably be voting for him. Does that make sense? Or do you think his latest defenses are also bad? So yea, I guess I'm waiting things out, because I still feel my target has the most going against him. Look through TSYK's posts like you did with Generics' and I think you'll agree with me.
Do you NOT think TSYK is scum? And if so, why?

 

[SlickWylde]

BTW: All of you guys should watch New World, it's an Asian movie (Has Korean and Chinese elements mostly). It's about cops and Mafia, and rats in the Mafia working for the cops, and corruption from the cops. It reminds me of playing an epic game of mafia, and it's a pretty cool movie

 

[Zalak]

I think that shows me that you pay attention to detail and are good at finding evidence, for sure. As far as changing my opinion on him, that's hard. Because initially I had him as 70% scum, but he moved down to about 50%. This definitely puts him on my Fingers of Suspicion list again. But I feel like he's done a better job of posting since those, and has contributed. That could be him being scum actually trying to find other scum, or it could be him getting ganged up on at the beginning.

If he had done what TSYK had, and not contributed anything useful and made bad defenses, I would probably be voting for him. Does that make sense? Or do you think his latest defenses are also bad? So yea, I guess I'm waiting things out, because I still feel my target has the most going against him. Look through TSYK's posts like you did with Generics' and I think you'll agree with me.
Do you NOT think TSYK is scum? And if so, why?

His latest defenses are alright, but now that you mention it.

I asked if anyone is suspicious of me for two reasons (the same reasons on both occasions) first, to collect data. I want to know who thinks what, including about me. Secondly, I like to be prompt with my replies. On both occasions, I wanted to deal with any accusations asap, because I had time to write in-depth.

This doesn't change much. He's still choosing to spend his free time on self-defense rather than scum-hunting.
aaand

In regards to my trap, it only made sense in the context of RR (which, I was obviously wrong, but I'll explain my line of thinking). RR, throughout the game, acted exceedingly opportunistically and pounced on the tiniest of things, like Kary's joke. That is the main reason I suspected him, and I wanted to see if it would be a trend, where he does anything possible to divert suspicion away from himself onto someone else.

I still don't at all understand how he expected a townie RadicalRat to respond to his trap.

I do think @ ThatSmasherYouKnow is scum, and I'm still waiting on his to reply to my question from earlier. If I don't see a major increase in content from him, I'll DEFINITELY be willing to switch my vote. For now, I'm focusing on Generic, because he actually responds to my accusations.

Also, I promised @RadicalRat I'd look into his theories. Speaking of which....

I'll look into your team theories next, RR. I've already got some notes B)

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Aside from the somewhat creepy statement that Reaper made of stalking me in real life, he does have a point as well as all of you. Honestly, if I were on your side, I would think that I was scum as well. I have the most evidence against myself after all, and I don't have a very good way to defend myself, and I feel that the only way to defend myself at this point would be to reveal what side I'm on. But, easily, Generic is suspicious as well, by the points that Zalak made. If you wan't to lynch me, lynch me without looking too much forward into it. And, I suppose, it is time to reveal my new reads.
*GenericHandle*:Werewolf He was accusing Kary of being scum, and guess what? Kary died that night. He might have planned this or not, but as Zalak and everyone said, he seems to be trying to get on everyone's good side and reassuring everyone that he is town.
RosalinaSGS:Townie I haven't gotten any bad vibes and she hasn't done anything scummy, but again, that could be scummy.
Spak: Werewolf He seemed to be protecting Generic earlier on, but that could have been nothing.
Zalak: Townie Again, same as Rosa.

Three Mafia Buddies: Slick, KingofKoopas,Green Reaper: I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like these three have been communicating with each other way too much. It's probably more of a lean though.
Everyone else: Null. They either haven't posted enough, or have done nearly nothing. Also, @ Zalak I'll get back to your questions as soon as I can, I have a bit of homework.

 

[Kaladin]

Why me and Spak as WW as opposed to me and Slick like Rat thinks?

Also, if we're basing reads off the nightkill, why not Reaper as WW?

 

[Kaladin]

Also, "you're right there's a ton of evidence against me" is not a good argument.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Darn, I was hoping you would be a suck-up and say I was a town lean. Trap failed.

Also, stalking you in real life? What?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

'I've been on Smasher's case since Day 1, both in game and in real life.' Mostly a joke. Also, trap? Does that mean you are admitting you are scum?

 

[Zalak]

'I've been on Smasher's case since Day 1, both in game and in real life.' Mostly a joke. Also, trap? Does that mean you are admitting you are scum?

I believe he meant it was the first game day, and the first irl day. He had to specify cuz in-game days last 1 week. I don't think he meant to say he had been stalking you irl.