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I've been hoping for more 3DS stages, and this one looks great. While Sticker Star was by far my least favorite Paper Mario, TTYD is the best in the series, so it's great to see representation for it. Plus, there's almost certain to be more transformations we haven't seen!
This has me really hyped for a possible Paper Mario reveal now. Stages of major franchises rarely ever appear in smash without having a character to go with it, with Smashville, Hanenbow, and Pictochat being the only ones in Brawl as far as I'm aware (and Villager was considered as a potential fighter in Brawl).
We've also had many instances in which a franchise's stage was revealed before the character was: Super Mario Galaxy before Rosalina, Find Mii before the Miis, Boxing Ring before Little Mac, Spirit Tracks before Toon Link, and Palutena's Temple before Palutena (though that could have arguably been represented by Pit). I was really skeptical about Paper Mario before, but now I'm really hyped!
I mean, Smashville did exist in Brawl without Villager being playable.
But I agree, I really hope this means Paper Mario is in the game. However, most people just pass it off as "just another Mario stage". And they're not wrong, I just see Paper Mario and Mario as two different things because reasons.
Boxing Ring shown Before Little Mac.
Palutena's Temple shown Before Palutena
Galaxy shown Before Rosalina
Pyrosphere shown Before Ridley (?)
Multiple Mii Stages shown Before Miis
Paper Mario can easily get in after this stage. ^^
Well, we did get some Pilotwings characters, as the Miis are playable in Pilotwings Resorts. And while that stage doesn't confirm Paper Mario's chances by any means, it stills increases them.
Boxing Ring shown Before Little Mac.
Palutena's Temple shown Before Palutena
Galaxy shown Before Rosalina
Pyrosphere shown Before Ridley (?)
Multiple Mii Stages shown Before Miis
Paper Mario can easily get in after this stage. ^^
all those had characters in that existing franchise before that stage was revealed (besides Mac but his stage was shown as a different stage and to an extent Miis) so it didn't hint at a newcomer. Sakurai has plenty of things to show us, why reveal this and intentionally kill the shock value of a reveal when the stage could've been shown after or during? I said this a page or two back but if he revealed the Wii Fit Stage, would you have been as shocked at her reveal? The only reason I could see is if he's a secret newcomer, but even then the point still stands.
all those had characters in that existing franchise before that stage was revealed (besides Mac but his stage was shown as a different stage and to an extent Miis) so it didn't hint at a newcomer. Sakurai has plenty of things to show us, why reveal this and intentionally kill the shock value of a reveal when the stage could've been shown after or during? I said this a page or two back but if he revealed the Wii Fit Stage, would you have been as shocked at her reveal? The only reason I could see is if he's a secret newcomer, but even then the point still stands.
Well, one could argue that it's another Mario-stage, like many here and elsewhere also seem to believe. In which case, we do have existing characters of that franchise, thus making this stage reveal very much like Galaxy or Palutena's Temple or whatever. While he does specifically mention the Paper Mario franchise, I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to be playing around and just making it seem like not a big deal, "just another Mario-stage", when there's actually more to it. *Shrugs*
But to be fair, I don't think anyone actually believes this stage reveal guarantees Paper Mario's inclusion. It would be silly to think that. This kind of stuff just gives more hope for supporters (like myself) and thus makes us go all crazy and speculative. I bet something similar would happen be it any other stage as well, if it even slightly hints at some character people might support.
Not that the Wii Fit stage thing is anything important, but I have to say, I think I'd actually be as shocked at WFT's reveal even if we had known about the stage beforehand. Even a Wii Fit stage wouldn't have really made me expect the randomness of WFT being playable haha!
This stage neither confirms nor denies Paper Mario as a character.
Do remember that every unconfirmed newcomer has just about a chance of being denied as they do of being confirmed. Remember poor old Takamaru from yesterday?
As much as I love the move set potential of Paper Mario, I sort of agree. Mario franchises get a huge amount of representation in Smash games. It's understandable, but it'd be nice if other franchises got that much love too.
Yeah, and it's a lot more sensible than thinking that an actual majority of people would be happy with yet another Mario character being playable, let alone it being just another Mario. It's bad enough that we still have Toon Link. Do we really need a Mario version of that would it could be a different character instead?
If I want to play as a character that's very similar to Mario but still plays very differently and stands out as their own individual unique character due to how much they've differentiated and distanced themselves from him...
Yeah, and it's a lot more sensible than thinking that an actual majority of people would be happy with yet another Mario character being playable, let alone it being just another Mario. It's bad enough that we still have Toon Link. Do we really need a Mario version of that would it could be a different character instead?
If I want to play as a character that's very similar to Mario but still plays very differently and stands out as their own individual unique character due to how much they've differentiated and distanced themselves from him...
Paper Mario has way more going for him for uniqueness than Toon Link or just a clone of Mario. He has so much potential, so for me he is the only character I would love making it in that is already another but you can think what you think.
This feels like too much work to not have Paper Mario as a character. Now if it was just the giant fan stage from the 3DS game then I could see Sakurai and his team just borrowing assets for a simple 3DS stage, but then to go out of their way to put SS Flavion (plus whatever other transformations we don't know about) feels like there is going to be a lot of Paper Mario representation.
Honestly, if Paper Mario is playable I'm more excited at the prospect of a Paper Mario Wii U stage then the character himself. The Stage from TTYD has always been a dream stage of mine. Though I would welcome Paper Mario, especially if he used his partners to attack.
Paper Mario has way more going for him for uniqueness than Toon Link or just a clone of Mario. He has so much potential, so for me he is the only character I would love making it in that is already another but you can think what you think.
But different or not, he's still just Mario. That's the problem.
No amount of potential or uniqueness can negate that fact.
Just like in the opposite sense, no matter how much Lucina may play like Marth, they're still actually 2 completely different people, which is why she works. Even if the two may look a little similar, it's not like Marth and Lucina are the exact same person versus Mario and Paper Mario or Link and Toon Link.
I'm all for more characters, but if it's just going to become "Here's this character! Now here's the same character from this timeline! Now here's the same character again, but moving like Mr. Game & Watch!", I'm going to lose a whole lot of interest and desire to play.
But different or not, he's still just Mario. That's the problem.
No amount of potential or uniqueness can negate that fact.
Just like in the opposite sense, no matter how much Lucina may play like Marth, they're still actually 2 completely different people, which is why she works. Even if the two may look a little similar, it's not like Marth and Lucina are the exact same person versus Mario and Paper Mario or Link and Toon Link.
I'm all for more characters, but if it's just going to become "Here's this character! Now here's the same character from this timeline! Now here's the same character again, but moving like Mr. Game & Watch!", I'm going to lose a whole lot of interest and desire to play.
That's alright if you don't want him, I still do. But we have had clones and unique characters that were the same people in the past so he's not completely out of the question. (Ex: )
Nah, I think Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda are good with 3 or so. Just surprising. Like, how many stages on the 3DS are we going to get?
Still waiting for the Pokemon Stadium III on both versions. I'll go out on a limb and say we'll get something like that this week (if I get it right I am the second coming of Christ Jesus).
That's alright if you don't want him, I still do. But we have had clones and unique characters that were the same people in the past so he's not completely out of the question. (Ex: )
Young Link and Doctor Mario were just as bad of examples. I'm not making them out to be exceptions or anything.
Sheik and Zamus are technically cases as well, true, but they don't look exactly like Zelda and Samus, so that's what makes it work for them. (And I guess the whole deal with some people thinking Zelda and Sheik were actually different people, but that's a whole other issue. ¦D ) They made technically be those two, but you don't see them at a glance and go "That's just another Zelda/Samus!".
Granted people keep doing that for Lucina even though she and Marth honest don't look that much alike. If anything, their color scheme is the main thing they have in common. Change Lucina's colors and she'll look like...Well, probably ANOTHER Fire Emblem character instead. XD
And then you have Falcon and Ganon...That's just an odd case of laziness that some people unfortunately became content with. They really need to fix that and have Ganon either fight like himself or not be in the game at all. (Which would be a shame.)
But I'm dragging this on now. Like you've hinted, I've made my point and I'm sticking to it just as you can stick to yours. Opinions and all that.
But Paper Mario being playable is still a stupid idea. lol ¦D
Young Link and Doctor Mario were just as bad of examples. I'm not making them out to be exceptions or anything.
Sheik and Zamus are technically cases as well, true, but they don't look exactly like Zelda and Samus, so that's what makes it work for them. (And I guess the whole deal with some people thinking Zelda and Sheik were actually different people, but that's a whole other issue. ¦D ) They made technically be those two, but you don't see them at a glance and go "That's just another Zelda/Samus!".
Granted people keep doing that for Lucina even though she and Marth honest don't look that much alike. If anything, their color scheme is the main thing they have in common. Change Lucina's colors and she'll look like...Well, probably ANOTHER Fire Emblem character instead. XD
And then you have Falcon and Ganon...That's just an odd case of laziness that some people unfortunately became content with. They really need to fix that and have Ganon either fight like himself or not be in the game at all. (Which would be a shame.)
But I'm dragging this on now. Like you've hinted, I've made my point and I'm sticking to it just as you can stick to yours. Opinions and all that.
But Paper Mario being playable is still a stupid idea. lol ¦D
> People saying that Mario should stay at 5 characters
Mario is substantially bigger than all of the other franchises in Smash Bros, and has had the biggest impact on the gaming world when compared to practically every other game out there. Mario is an icon, and his series continues to maintain quality and sell incredibly well.
Mario could take up half the roster and it would be justified. But since Smash 64 only included Mario and Luigi that ship has pretty much sailed. In reality though, most reoccurring Mario characters are more recognizable than more than half of the Smash cast.
I'm not saying I want a ton of Mario characters. Mario is my favorite video game series of all time, but I don't want 20 Mario characters just because it's Mario. But 6 is a good number. We're probably getting 6 Pokemon, so I really see no reason why 6 Mario characters can't happen. Paper Mario could bring a lot to the table and represent a side of Mario not yet represented in Smash. So I personally think there's more than enough room for Papes.
This is exactly what I desire, particularly simply for All-Star Mode. However, I do think it's more important that all series with a playable character get one stage each first, as to not repeat the case of the Fire Emblem series in Melee or R.O.B in Brawl.
Many seem to be hoping this will be a stage on the wiiu too, but I kinda doubt it. Sakurai probably would have shown it in its best looking form first with the wiiu version if that were the case.
> People saying that Mario should stay at 5 characters
Mario is substantially bigger than all of the other franchises in Smash Bros, and has had the biggest impact on the gaming world when compared to practically every other game out there. Mario is an icon, and his series continues to maintain quality and sell incredibly well.
Mario could take up half the roster and it would be justified. But since Smash 64 only included Mario and Luigi that ship has pretty much sailed. In reality though, most reoccurring Mario characters are more recognizable than more than half of the Smash cast.
I'm not saying I want a ton of Mario characters. Mario is my favorite video game series of all time, but I don't want 20 Mario characters just because it's Mario. But 6 is a good number. We're probably getting 6 Pokemon, so I really see no reason why 6 Mario characters can't happen. Paper Mario could bring a lot to the table and represent a side of Mario not yet represented in Smash. So I personally think there's more than enough room for Papes.
The only reason 6 or 7 Pokemon could work is because Pokemon is a series with 721 unique and identifiable character creatures where the goal is the "Catch'em All". It's only because it's a different type of series than Mario with a lot more "characters" to identify and know that it could be pulled off. And no matter how old or iconic Mario is, I can guarantee you that the average person probably knows a larger amount of the Pokemon line-up than they do of the Mario character cast, as most only know who Mario, Luigi, Toad, Peach and Bowser are and don't care to know the others outside of spin-offs which is why we get dumb stuff like "YELLOW PEACH" or "BLUE PEACH". They MIGHT know Wario, but probably don't know anything about him and think he's Mario's Jewish cousin or something.
Even as much as I wanted Rosalina, now I feel any more than 5 Mario characters is really pushing it. Especially considering that since Yoshi, DK and Diddy do still belong to the Mario Universe too, there's technically 8 characters from the same series right now. (Though one could argue that it's actually DK's Universe, but we won't get into that.)
Having yet another one that still just another version Mario in there on top of it? Thanks, but no thanks. There is no hype or excitement to be had from that. It'd just be irritating to others since literally anyone else could've been picked instead.
Bowser Jr. is certainly the most reoccurring character (he's in most "New" games and quite a few spin-offs) but I'm just not sure if Sakurai would choose him over Paper Mario. As a semi-clone almost definitely, but as an original character...
Paper Mario can use elements from RPGs and the Paper Mario series. Timed attacks, partners, paper mechanics, etc. Since Sticker Star released around the time of roster deciding, I would think that Sakurai had at least considered Paper Mario, and if there was room for a completely original 6th Mario character, I feel that he would go for Paper Mario.
Many seem to be hoping this will be a stage on the wiiu too, but I kinda doubt it. Sakurai probably would have shown it in its best looking form first with the wiiu version if that were the case.
By my count we're about at parity between the two game in terms of really solid looking stages with Wii U having a one stage lead:
Wii U: Battlefield, Final Destination, Skyloft, Pilotwings, Mushroom Kingdom U, Halberd, Town and City
3DS: Battlefield, Final Destination, Prism Tower, Rainbow Road, Tortimer's Island, Arena Ferox
Then when we get into stages we know less about but seem to be overall in the "very good candidate" territory, 3DS goes up a stage with the addition of Paper Mario.
Wii U: Great Fox, Pokemon League
3DS: Tomodachi Life, Paper Mario, Jungle Japes, Pac-Maze
I don't even want to write off the oher stages, but these stages are all the ones that have really caught my interest as good legal candidate stages that will be broadly agreeable to most people. You'll notice both of my lists are exactly half of the stages per version we know about so far (9/18 for Wii U; 10/20 for 3DS); I think we're in pretty good shape to be able to make good stage lists with nice, double digit legal stages on both versions, and I want every legal stage legal for game one when I say that to be clear. I'm actually just waiting for our next big info dump on the game to make a thread going really into this sort of thing; I've been thinking a lot about what we have seen from stages and what I think is going to work in terms of stage legality. Of course, awesome updates like today's only help that!
Oh, right. The difference is small. If the Paper Mario stage is legal, then it would have the same number of neutral stages.
Maybe the games have potential to have the most legal stages so far. I mean, most of them look neutral, even with just one stage hazard or something.
I think that once the 3DS version is released, we can have every stage legal to try them out on the online multiplayer and then discuss them.
