Miiverse Daily Pic Thread: 2nd Edition (Updated 9/19)

[Morrigan]

Well some of the same dev time would be involved but there's just a whole lot of factors that separate them.

Adding a custom move means a new visual effect for the attack, some programing/frame changes to alter the attack's properties, and some (relatively) simple balancing tests.

New characters means a new model for each game, one of which is a detailed HD model, an entire new movelist (jab tilts smashes aerials grab/throws special moves that aren't just tweaks of existing special moves final smash), a crap ton of animations and facial expressions for being hit/grabbing ledges/running/walking/swimming maybe/jumping/double jumpy/tripping on banana peels/being hit by varous effect attacks ect. ect. ect., likely extensive research into that character and every game they've been in quite possibly including playing the games to get a feel for them, physics traits like the character's weight floatiness traction and speed, potentially working out character specific gimmicks, a new CG trailer if that character is a newcomer, likely a home stage for that character and if they're from a new series a bunch of new music, voice work which requires pick and hiring a voice actor, determing sound effects for every action, likely extensive back and forth with the company that owns the character if they aren't from vanilla Nintendo like with the Pokémon characters, little extra things that playable characters get like an end of classic mode montage multiple trophies minigames if those end up being individualized again official artwork a website page a Kirby hat ect., and most importantly a much, much more rigorous balancing process. And probably other things I'm not thinking of/not aware of.

And balancing gets a lot harder the larger your cast gets, in a fashion that's non-linear, and things tend to become a real mess when you get past 50ish characters, especially if you're adding a lot of new ones all at once. I don't think this is nearly as acute a problem with custom moves, though it still is to an extent.

To say nothing of the fact that the effect that they have on the game at large (giving each character more options vs. just having more characters overall, among other things) is just wildly different, though I guess that's what the question was addressing.

I just think it's a bit far into apples and oranges territory. Also, I really don't think cutting the custom move variants entirely would give us more than just a couple extra characters. I pretty positive there's no way we'd be getting 60-70 characters either way.

I'm only hoping they actually did take their time to balance default movesets and that custom moves are just add-ons that could potentially unbalance the hell out of everything so to speak but because it's an optional thing you can turn off they're just LOLWHOCARES. Yeah.

 

[FalKoopa]

It is just me or do most of the custom moves seem to really random ideas?

I don't think Storm Punch has any basis in the DK games. That said, it does look cool.

 

[Morbi]

It is just me or do most of the custom moves seem to really random ideas?

I don't think Storm Punch has any basis in the DK games. That said, it does look cool.

I agree, Mario's shock cape and scalding Fludd do seem out of place; however, I believe that that is a good thing. If it offers more diversity, I am all for it, even if it does not follow the source material.

 

[Reila]

I welcome original ideas form custom movesets. As long as the default moves are based on stuff the characters do in their games, it is fine.

 

[praline]

I welcome original ideas form custom movesets. As long as the default moves are based on stuff the characters do in their games, it is fine.

Captain Falcon disconfirmed.

 

[YoshiSonic]

Arm sledgehammer? isn't side special the headbutt move?

I clearly see his arm getting ready to wreck it before he sling-shots to the ground to ground pound a victim

 

[MasterofMonster]

I like the costom moves, and I will certanly use them at times. But at the same time, I kinda don't want them (if that makes sense). I feel it makes the characters feel less special, in some ways. Can't explain it well. :/

But oh well.

 

[Staarih]

I'm still not sure if I like the customized moves or not. Fair enough, I don't have to use them if I don't want to, but they DO look sort of cool, even if a bit random. I just feel like they'll over-complicate my little, easily confused mind if I ever end up trying them haha. And since online is probably going to be my go-to game mode for actual, proper games, I'll probably get more use to the default moves of characters anyway. So I'm a bit 50/50 (or maybe like, 30/70?) about this customization thing.

As for the pic today, the move looks cool, but it's nothing too exciting. I have very little expectations for the pics nowadays (I always get like this after dumps of huge info, like after the Smash Direct and now after E3) so I get hardly disappointed or... anything, anymore haha!

 

[JoeInky]

Question: would you rather these 12 customisable specials, or a roster of 60 - 70ish characters.

There's a difference between giving characters the ability to change a special to something that's practically the same except with a few slight tweaks and an extra 10-20 characters, you know?

If they got rid of customisations they'd probably have enough time to make 1 or 2 extra characters at most considering how little workload specials are and what goes into an entire character.

We learned two things here. One is that Sakurai has no confidence in the balance of the various custom special moves. Two is that whoever translated the caption today wasn't aware that appalling has a negative connotation in English.

Sakurai isn't concerned about the perceived imbalance of special moves per se.

You've got to remember that online with friends and online with randoms both have a different type of flow

friends: Create lobby > friends join lobby > you all pick characters and specials together > pick stage > play
randoms: Start online > pick character > pick stage > join waiting room for game > play

The reason customisations are off in randoms is because they won't know which specials you're using before the game actually starts, he doesn't want the average joe who doesn't know much about the game to expect mario to have his normal jump punch only to get KO'd by the explosive punch that he had no way of knowing was in use.

Customisable specials are still fine guys, the word "reliable" he used in the PotD post is a very deliberate and important part of the post.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm really excited for custom moves, sure it's not going to be anything serious, but it's going to be fun creating super whacky builds. As long as they aren't going to be available online I'm perfectly fine with them.

 

[Morbi]

There's a difference between giving characters the ability to change a special to something that's practically the same except with a few slight tweaks and an extra 10-20 characters, you know?

If they got rid of customisations they'd probably have enough time to make 1 or 2 extra characters at most considering how little workload specials are and what goes into an entire character.



Sakurai isn't concerned about the perceived imbalance of special moves per se.

You've got to remember that online with friends and online with randoms both have a different type of flow

friends: Create lobby > friends join lobby > you all pick characters and specials together > pick stage > play
randoms: Start online > pick character > pick stage > join waiting room for game > play

The reason customisations are off in randoms is because they won't know which specials you're using before the game actually starts, he doesn't want the average joe who doesn't know much about the game to expect mario to have his normal jump punch only to get KO'd by the explosive punch that he had no way of knowing was in use.

Customisable specials are still fine guys.

I suppose that could be the case; however, the point seems moot if the "average Joe" does not know much about the game anyways as most characters would be fairly unpredictable to that individual, the special moves are not going to be entirely relevant. I digress, it probably has less to do with balance and more to do with consistency.

 

[JoeInky]

I suppose that could be the case; however, the point seems moot if the "average Joe" does not know much about the game anyways as most characters would be fairly unpredictable to that individual, the special moves are not going to be entirely relevant. I digress, it probably has less to do with balance and more to do with consistency.

Like I said in my edit, sakurais post states that "anonymous players to be able to use reliable tactics against one another", the word reliable implies that he wants a more casual player to be able to focus on just the basics, rather than be trying to think about 12 different variations which might be hard for them.

I'm still 100% positive that customisations will be great for competitive play as long as they continue to be like what we've seen so far and that they're easy to setup from the CSS.

 

[PLATINUM7]

One thing people dont seem to understand, is that the DK who used to throw barrels isnt actually the same DK as we know in Smash nowadawys.

Because DK's never ever thrown a single barrel in the DKC games.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

One thing people dont seem to understand, is that the DK who used to throw barrels isnt actually the same DK as we know in Smash nowadawys.

The DK we know now has thrown barrels in all of the Country games he's been in, including the new ones.

Argument invalid.

lolsemantics

 

[MasterofMonster]

Because DK's never ever thrown a single barrel in the DKC games.

That's not a barrel at all.

It's a round box.

:D

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

That's not a barrel at all.

It's a round box.

:D

Cylindrical.

God.

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh, you want DK to throw a barrel? Well, isn't that simple!

How to make Donkey Kong throw a barrel in the Super Smash Bros. series in 4 easy steps!
1. Play as Donkey Kong (obviously)
2. Turn items on, making sure the Barrel item is on
3. During the match, grab a barrel while playing as Donkey Kong
4. Throw the barrel

There, you got Donkey Kong throw a barrel.

Anyway, I wonder if DK's Storm Punch will be chargeable... Perhaps, the longer the charge, the more wind it causes?

 

[SmashShadow]

I still don't get why so many people want to see him have a barrel attack when barrels are already an item in Smash. Especially when he has this:

 

[Reila]

I still don't get why so many people want to see him have a barrel attack when he isn't even the same DK who used to throw barrels in the arcade game.

 

[Z1GMA]

^ imo, DK is one of those characters who shouldn't have a projectile - getting up close and wrecking ppl.

 

[Morrigan]

Also um doesn't DK come out of a barrel in his entrance animation thing. It's not like Smash DK is a parallel universe DK where barrels don exits.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I still don't get why so many people want to see him have a barrel attack when he isn't even the same DK who used to throw barrels in the arcade game.

But he's the same DK who throws barrells in the DKC games

 

[Reila]

But he's the same DK who throws barrells in the DKC games

So does Diddy Kong, yet no one ask for him to throw barrels in Smash Bros.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Cylindrical.

God.

I know what it is. But you can't expect a person suffering from aspergers and dyslexia to remember every correct Word for every object in a language he didn't grow up in, right? ^^

And people, Sakurai can't make DK toss a barrel. That would totally rip off Drake from PSASBR. D:

 

[Cap'nChreest]

The more I see Sakurai say that he doesn't want the custom moves used online for game balance the less I feel that they will be a good option for competitive play. I'm all for them (for now) but when the game is released we'll have to wait and see how broken or useless they are.

 

[Krysco]

As a Ganon user/main and a Mario user I can easily say I support the customizable movesets. That being said, all of that support will be whisked away if Ganon still has an unusable neutral special and a pitiful up special (although to be fair, the latter is common among heavyweights). As for the one shown in the pic, I don't use DK nor do I know anyone in person who uses him so odds are I won't see it much, if at all.

 

[ToddCam]

Wild speculation: when you pick a certain set of custom moves, the character becomes a clone character, taking on the tweaked appearance and name of another character, like Dark Pit. Not a full character, but more than just a palette swap.

 

[Baskerville]

This really reminds me of Wham's Holy Sandstorm attack.
In fact, I dub this the Holy Dongstorm.

 

[Frostwraith]

Wild speculation: when you pick a certain set of custom moves, the character becomes a clone character, taking on the tweaked appearance and name of another character, like Dark Pit. Not a full character, but more than just a palette swap.

I'd prefer if all possible costumes could be used with any special attack combination... It would be more fun that way.

I don't think what you're suggesting will happen.

 

[ToddCam]

I'd prefer if all possible costumes could be used with any special attack combination... It would be more fun that way.

I don't think what you're suggesting will happen.

That's why it's wild!

 

[KokiriKory]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<---- loves DK

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oooooh one of the varations of dks normal B looks good

But why does it have to be on the pyrosphere with no ridley in sight again,

 

[MasterofMonster]

Oooooh one of the varations of dks normal B looks good

But why does it have to be on the pyrosphere with no ridley in sight again,

Sakurai loves teasing Ridley. And let's just say, if he IS only a hazard, they certanly takes their sweet time finishing his model to be able to show it after deliberately teasing him confusingly for a year now.

 

[spader13]

I haven't seen much footage with the Gust Bellows to know how effective wind attacks are, but hopefully they're better than Brawl's water attacks were.

On the customization debate, I hope we're at able to customize in the one player modes too as I'd hate to get used to a move variant but then find out it can't be used to clear the hardest Event Modes/Boss Battles on Intense equivalent). I'm assuming the customization aspect won't bring a ton of variety since one of the three specials will likely dominate the others in terms of usefulness, but it also gives each character 3 chances at having each special move cover one of their flaws/just be better than past games.

 

[Curious Villager]

I haven't seen much footage with the Gust Bellows to know how effective wind attacks are, but hopefully they're better than Brawl's water attacks were.

On the customization debate, I hope we're at able to customize in the one player modes too as I'd hate to get used to a move variant but then find out it can't be used to clear the hardest Event Modes/Boss Battles on Intense equivalent). I'm assuming the customization aspect won't bring a ton of variety since one of the three specials will likely dominate the others in terms of usefulness, but it also gives each character 3 chances at having each special move cover one of their flaws/just be better than past games.

I think he confirmed it himself that the costumisable moves can be used everywhere except with online anyone's.

So yeah, you can use them in single player mode too.

 

[JabbatheHutt]

Throwing Barrels wouldve been a great final Smash for DK.

Imagine him turning into his 8 Bit Self from the DK Arcade Game and Wrecking stuff

 

[8-peacock-8]

Punching hurricanes. Amazing

 

[D-idara]

Throwing Barrels wouldve been a great final Smash for DK.

Imagine him turning into his 8 Bit Self from the DK Arcade Game and Wrecking stuff

That wasn't DK at all The one throwing the barrels is too old for this crap.

 

[Bauske]

I'm honestly not that keen on the idea of customizable moves. They look neat, and the idea is good to add some variety, but even after my hundreds of hours of playing Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl, I never once thought "you know what would make this better? If I could have Kirby exhale ice."

I've never wanted customizable move sets because Smash is great as it is. Even though the mechanics are simple, and each character has a move set if generally 17-19 moves, most of which are just standard punches and kicks, it's still complex enough that you need to put in a lot of time and effort to learn a character and really get to know how they work. And I like that. I love the simplicity but the complexity added in.

Custom move sets just seem like a burden. It's potentially more stuff to learn, but only if you're playing with friends, and only if your friends want to in the first place. They're not available in Against Everyone mode, and I'm sure they'll be banned at tournaments. I've been playing Smash for years against friends without them and still think the game is great, so they're not really necessary at all to learn, meaning to me they're essentially useless. They'll be fun to tinker around with for a bit and try out, but I feel like ultimately I'll stick with the default move sets and custom sets will never get touched afterwards, which feels like a wasted area of game development.

I know my opinion isn't the only one out there, so for those who are excited about using these custom moves wherever they can, I'm happy for you. They just don't do much for me.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Throwing Barrels wouldve been a great final Smash for DK.

Imagine him turning into his 8 Bit Self from the DK Arcade Game and Wrecking stuff

Nah, they're saving that one for Cranky.