Meta Mii Swordfighter Competitive Discussion and Q&A Thread

[Unknownkid]

Welcome back, Berserker. How is the Zelda Social Thread doing? Still Sassy as ever?

well it seems now that people are starting to understand the true power of Butter Knife Spider
seeing as @ Unknownkid hasn't said it already welcome to the BKS forums

Okay I was a second late. I just got up this morning.

 

[Berserker.]

Tbh, the more I play him, the more I feel that he isn't the worst in the game.

Welcome back, Berserker. How is the Zelda Social Thread doing? Still Sassy as ever?

As always

 

[Antonykun]

Welcome back, Berserker. How is the Zelda Social Thread doing? Still Sassy as ever?

@SBphiloz4 made the unholy abomination known as Zelderly Mii Swordfighter

 

[Trieste SP]

Tbh, the more I play him, the more I feel that he isn't the worst in the game.

TBH, I never thought he ever the worst even in the 3DS days. The buffs he got after the recent patch made it even clearer.

 

[Berserker.]

@SBphiloz4 made the unholy abomination known as Zelderly Mii Swordfighter

It's beyond bottom tier :^)

 

[Unknownkid]

Wait what? I have to see this. Smash Board Alert system is weird. It doesn't alert me on extremely active threads unless I have them open in the first place.

 

[Berserker.]

Wait what? I have to see this. Smash Board Alert system is weird. It doesn't alert me on extremely active threads unless I have them open in the first place.

It doesn't work from time to time

 

[TIL]

Forgive me for not looking for the most appropriate thread to ask this question but is Mii Swordfighters low tier placement based on his entire custom kit potential or just his 1111 with default weight and height? Whenever I bust him out for fun I end up winning, probably due to peoples' lack of experience against him, but it's still a bit strange to me how adequate he feels, despite being considered the absolute worst character.

As for something relative to this topic, I make my Mii Swords to compliment the Shy Guy mask, usually short with medium weight. I also have played around with all of his stuff and find 2231 and 2232 to be the most consistent for me.

 

[Antonykun]

Forgive me for not looking for the most appropriate thread to ask this question but is Mii Swordfighters low tier placement based on his entire custom kit potential or just his 1111 with default weight and height? Whenever I bust him out for fun I end up winning, probably due to peoples' lack of experience against him, but it's still a bit strange to me how adequate he feels, despite being considered the absolute worst character.

As for something relative to this topic, I make my Mii Swords to compliment the Shy Guy mask, usually short with medium weight. I also have played around with all of his stuff and find 2231 and 2232 to be the most consistent for me.

Sort of,
Swordfighter is a mii and thus can't be used on FG
because he can't be used on FG people can't experiment very well with them
as such people look at Swordfigher and they see a character with bad frame data and poor range (for a swordfighter) and they say whoops bad character.
Customs + Height/weight modifications really help him tho

 

[Berserker.]

Tiny BKS is surprisingly good though. SoL and Hero's Spin are also good customs. I find myself preferring his side B 2 and down B 1. Side B 2 is a great horizontal recovery. Down B 1 is a solid counter.

 

[Macchiato]

Wait is this like the Zelda social 2?

 

[Berserker.]

Wait is this like the Zelda social 2?

Nah.

This is all about Butter Knife Fighter. We're all srs business.

 

[Antonykun]

Wait is this like the Zelda social 2?

oh that would be aw-

Nah.

This is all about Butter Knife Fighter. We're all srs business.

awwww

I'm thinking of making a BKS Social just so the zoroldo boards can raid it

 

[Berserker.]

These boards need a lot of adjustments. A lot of missing threads everywhere. Lol.

 

[Antonykun]

These boards need a lot of adjustments. A lot of missing threads everywhere. Lol.

theres also the lack of Mods

 

[Berserker.]

theres also the lack of Mods

Um. Yeah and that. I guess

 

[Rizen]

Who does mod these boards?
What do you guys consider the best custom set for BKF?

 

[Berserker.]

Who does mod these boards?
What do you guys consider the best custom set for BKF?

Neutral B: Shurikens of Light
Forward B: The second one/Quick draw
Upward B: Hero's Spin
Downward B: All of 'em, but I like counter

No mod here so far

 

[TIL]

Neutral B: Shurikens of Light
Forward B: The second one/Quick draw
Upward B: Hero's Spin
Downward B: All of 'em, but I like counter

Couldn't agree more with this set. I used counter first but I've been liking the reflect lately. I used to think the dash was pretty bad but it has some cool uses.

 

[Daxter]

I just picked up Mii Swordsman for the first time today.

I'm very surprised. I'd been avoiding him due to the reputation, but I actually quite like his fighting style. All but the smashes that is. I hope I can try to learn them a bit, even with 1111 moves.

 

[Unknownkid]

Good to hear, Daxter! Go to the Social Thread to get some butter on your toast while meeting the locals and watch some highlights in the video thread. If you are interesting in 1111 moves, then Trela the Low Tier God is your man.

 

[Daxter]

Good to hear, Daxter! Go to the Social Thread to get some butter on your toast while meeting the locals and watch some highlights in the video thread. If you are interesting in 1111 moves, then Trela the Low Tier God is your man.

Thanks; I've been playing for ages and still don't have a main, so maybe this'll be the one! If I'm honest, I prefer the 2222 loadout, but I doubt I'd last long in a customs tourney, so I need to learn 1111 moves.

 

[Rizen]

what are the differences in different sized Miis for swordfighter?

 

[Unknownkid]

what are the differences in different sized Miis for swordfighter?

http://smashboards.com/threads/mii-height-width-analysis.373891/

tl;dr -
Weight - Ending Lag, Damage, Survival (unnoticeable)
Height - Movement Speed, Jump Height, Range.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

I'm guessing we use the social to talk about butter and this thread to talk about more serious stuff about MSF/MBKF.

I'm curious about what we can do with our throws. I find myself going back to Down throw more often than any of the others, mostly for combos, though sometimes I use Forward or Back throw to get people offstage. I don't know about Up throw, it could lead to juggling, but I don't feel like I'm very good at doing that successfully.

And the more I use Down throw -> Up air, the more I think MSF has a "hoo-hah" of his own.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Downthrow is the only inherently useful throw, but fthrow/bthrow are serviceable to reset the neutral and give you some breathing room, I guess.

I have no idea what uthrow is for, though. To get them above the platforms on most stages in the vain hope you get an earlier uair kill? *shrug*

 

[san.]

Uthrow is only for forcing platform tech chases. Dthrow does terrible damage and swordsman's pummel is terrible, so dthrow->uair doesn't do as much damage as one may hope to believe. You may opt to fthrow/bthrow at high %. A high rage bthrow can kill at the ledge when the opponent is also at a very high % (130-140+).

 

[LiteralGrill]

I found what my first video is about. I have zero idea how I missed this for so long, but I found a beastly ledgeguarding option, his standard side b.

Now if the opponent doesn't have to cry in fear of your Bair and Dair (and maybe standard up b's spike) you just gave them even MORE reason to sit and be VERY afraid off stage.

With proper timing if you side b near the ledge, instead of sweet spotting the ledge you'll spin a whole bunch of times THEN grab the ledge, staying in the same place in the air. This means you're leaving out a VERY long lasting hitbox that can send people behind and away from you off stage, which can set up into Bair and Dair while GIVING YOU YOUR JUMP BACK IF IT HITS!

Now if this wasn't nice enough, there are several different timings on this. One will just put out the hitbox for a tiny bit and then sweetspot the ledge, one will hover near the ledge before popping you back onto the stage, and the last will put you significantly under the ledge before sticky hands bring you back to grab. Did I mention it can still register to hit both below AND above the stage for all of these versions?

Basically a simple TLDR, you can cover every single option at the ledge while putting out a strong killing hitbbox that can also combo into death moves at low percents. Even f the opponent is at low percents so long as you get them offstage you can set up a mind game and trap with this, if they recover high they're punished, if they recover low to try and avoid it you just hold a tiny bit longer and get they hit in. It's SUCH an amazing tool that abuses how the ledges work in this game (1 frame is available before people grab the ledge, and this keeps the hitbox out so there's no way to miss the window) and I feel like an absolute moron for missing it this long. It also seems to beat out a lot of the recovery moves I've tested thus far, even those with hitboxes so you can use it to eat them out as well.

Able to basically make it so once you are offstage you are doomed, Mii Swordfighter. ADVANCING THE META!!!

 

[Unknownkid]

I found what my first video is about. I have zero idea how I missed this for so long, but I found a beastly ledgeguarding option, his standard side b.

Now if the opponent doesn't have to cry in fear of your Bair and Dair (and maybe standard up b's spike) you just gave them even MORE reason to sit and be VERY afraid off stage.

With proper timing if you side b near the ledge, instead of sweet spotting the ledge you'll spin a whole bunch of times THEN grab the ledge, staying in the same place in the air. This means you're leaving out a VERY long lasting hitbox that can send people behind and away from you off stage, which can set up into Bair and Dair while GIVING YOU YOUR JUMP BACK IF IT HITS!

Now if this wasn't nice enough, there are several different timings on this. One will just put out the hitbox for a tiny bit and then sweetspot the ledge, one will hover near the ledge before popping you back onto the stage, and the last will put you significantly under the ledge before sticky hands bring you back to grab. Did I mention it can still register to hit both below AND above the stage for all of these versions?

Basically a simple TLDR, you can cover every single option at the ledge while putting out a strong killing hitbbox that can also combo into death moves at low percents. Even f the opponent is at low percents so long as you get them offstage you can set up a mind game and trap with this, if they recover high they're punished, if they recover low to try and avoid it you just hold a tiny bit longer and get they hit in. It's SUCH an amazing tool that abuses how the ledges work in this game (1 frame is available before people grab the ledge, and this keeps the hitbox out so there's no way to miss the window) and I feel like an absolute moron for missing it this long. It also seems to beat out a lot of the recovery moves I've tested thus far, even those with hitboxes so you can use it to eat them out as well.

Able to basically make it so once you are offstage you are doomed, Mii Swordfighter. ADVANCING THE META!!!

Oh! Actually, I figure this out a long time ago but I didn't know how to use properly. So I dismiss it as useless. Thanks for the write up. Now, I can put this tech to use.

 

[ZarroTsu]

So I just want to say,

If the last hit of Hero Spin would connect in the air (at all), Mii Sword's d-throw would be a kill confirm.

I just want to let that sink in.

 

[Unknownkid]

It connects better with 50:0 than 25:0 from my experience.

 

[ZarroTsu]

I wonder at what height it stops working due to jump loss.

 

[MisterFinch]

I've been playing Swordfighter a lot since I got Smash 4 and honestly, I seem to prefer a more medium size with a heavier weight on mine. I run 1-1-2-3 for more recovery potential and distancing. I may start trying for competitions that allow the Butter Knife outside of standard size.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

It connects better with 50:0 than 25:0 from my experience.

I've been wondering, for this reason and others, if moving to 50/0 would be better for Swordfighter? It seems like the little bit of extra range would be helpful, without getting too sluggish like happens at 75/0 or 100/0?

 

[GeneralLedge]

Mobility is much more valuable than range at the moment, but only really because it broadens the viability factor a lot, and puts it in-line with most of the rest of the cast. More people are likely to play the character if they're speedy and easy to use.

When it gets down to it, every Mii size is technically viable in their own way; however the way you play them changes more and more dramatically as their mobility fails.

EVO sets are locked at the moment, but I hope we can broaden the sizes available instead of lock things to one specific size. 100/100 is like Ganondorf with a sword, for example. Fun to use, but easy to goof and get your face danced on.

 

[san.]

It depends imo. You want enough range to beat out the opponent directly. 50/0's 5 frame dtilts outrange many other characters' 6-9 frame tilts, while 0/0's 5 frame dtilt can barely outrange 2 or 3-frame jabs and may lose to other tilts.

0/0 is a combo machine but has lots of trouble getting in. 50/0 has more trouble following up and may get juggled a bit more, but it's so much easier to outspace someone.

 

[LRodC]

So I recently started playing Swordfighter and I have to say he's very enjoyable to play as.

I have a medium build Mii (it's mine) with Shuriken of Light, Airborne Assault, Hero's Spin, and Counter. I have Shurikens for zoning, Airborne Assault for recovery (I almost never use side b otherwise. I thought of the other option similar to Ike's but I like this one better), Hero's Spin for decent recovery and a nice OOS option, and Counter because I'm not sure what else to put there. I'm thinking of Power Thrust, but I'm not entirely sure. Reminds me of Falcon Kick.

Any recommendations or changes to my current set?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Honestly, I think Swordfighter is halfway decent now. My only major complaint is his up-B 1 sucks, and I wish they'd swap it out with Hero's Spin so he could use it even in defaults-only environments.

 

[Antonykun]

Honestly, I think Swordfighter is halfway decent now. My only major complaint is his up-B 1 sucks, and I wish they'd swap it out with Hero's Spin so he could use it even in defaults-only environments.

tbh i have some seriously mixed feelings about Stone Scabbard on one hand i have SDed way too many times where hero spin would have not, on the other hand there's fraudulent spikes

oh yeah Swordfighter has a really good dash attack mix that up with that unnaturally long dash skid animation and you get a situational mixup where you can dash attack from really far away despite you not moving

 

[Trieste SP]

So I recently started playing Swordfighter and I have to say he's very enjoyable to play as.

I have a medium build Mii (it's mine) with Shuriken of Light, Airborne Assault, Hero's Spin, and Counter. I have Shurikens for zoning, Airborne Assault for recovery (I almost never use side b otherwise. I thought of the other option similar to Ike's but I like this one better), Hero's Spin for decent recovery and a nice OOS option, and Counter because I'm not sure what else to put there. I'm thinking of Power Thrust, but I'm not entirely sure. Reminds me of Falcon Kick.

Any recommendations or changes to my current set?

I'm glad you're enjoying playing the character.

Your current set is good enough. Though, I'd advise you to mess around with the height and width. Try to find something that better fits you. Mine is currently small/small. So it's quite fast and agile. Weight increases damage at roughly 2x the rate of height.
Height decreased landing and ending lag by only a few frames (may be % based/more noticeable on slower attacks) at 0/0.