Meta Mii Swordfighter Competitive Discussion and Q&A Thread

Antonykun

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Bump because honestly, I didn't know where to type this. So when I did some Jump Height Rankings for Swordfighter, I learned that just the Height slider greatly affects his vertical recovery on Stone Scabbard grounded & airborne, but not for Hero's Spin & Skyward Slash Dash (I'm sorry if this has been discussed multiple times or was mentioned heavily). For the players that like Taller Mii Swordfighter but don't care much for the weight since weight doesn't change anything recovery-wise but does affect the hitbox size of all three, they can enjoy SS more.

Personally for me, I've been rolling more SSD lately just because I realize that a recent patch buffed the vertical height SSD recovers, & it's amaaaazing. D-air gimping for low recoveries & recovering back with SSD is so good that I prefer this over Hero's Spin since the height & weight don't matter with the recovery aspect of the two. SSD is basically a combination of Falco's Fire Bird multi-hit property with less startup traveling about the distance of Fox's Fire Fox, & I enjoy that. Despite that I sacrifice the strong OoS kill option that the grounded HS offers, SSD is for me regardless of what H/W set I use.

Question: Who else uses SSD & is fond of it & what instances do you use the move? I'm interested in other's ideas & strategies.
SSD is weird to me. It's easily Swordfighter's best recovery due to its non linearity coupled with Swordfighter's floatiness but using it meas no Hero's Spin. Using SSD is pretty much you accepting that you need to learn Swordfighter's other kill set ups
 

Masonomace

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SSD is weird to me. It's easily Swordfighter's best recovery due to its non linearity coupled with Swordfighter's floatiness but using it meas no Hero's Spin. Using SSD is pretty much you accepting that you need to learn Swordfighter's other kill set ups
I dig this & am willing to learn the other kill setups. HS is definitely a staple Up B that I enjoyed but I made the shift to SSD because it's great getting the ability to recover back when it looks hopeless for Swordfighter. I also don't need to briefly be drifting towards the stage after hitstun finishes just to recovery sideways while rising vertically with HS, since that's no fun going nowhere horizontally with HS.

Question: Do you feel that there are any neat special combinations that work well with SSD?
 
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Unknownkid

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Anthonykun covers SSD viability pretty well. I guess you don't need Airborne Assault or Slash Launcher to cover your horizontal recovery. So you can ditch them for Chakram. Since Upsmash and Chakram have improved, you can link both together for a Kill. So it will be X22X. From here is it preference. Find what works for your play style.

I always found Shuriken of Light to be redundant with Chakram. Even though Blurring Blade is consistent now.... it is still a Read type of Move (Airdodge Read/Ledge Getup Read) while Gale Strike beats most projectiles, multihit moves that catch spot dodge, windbox at the end.

Now, Down B really comes down to your choice and matchup. You got your Counter that last longer than Marth (23v22) and yet stronger than Ike (1.3 vs 1.2 wait wut?). Good "Get Off me" tool but don't be predictable. Reversal Slash essentially a hard to hit Mario's Cape. Great for gimps and I believe we can still Cape Glide and Stall. Last is Power Thrust a better version of Falcon Kick. An amazing Tech Chase, Roll Read, and Gap Closer -> Kill option. I mean it is really up to you Masonomace. If you like to get in and do a lot of damage 3223 or Zone and Gimp your opponent - 1222. Maybe a mixed of the two. I don't know. All of Swordfighter skills work.
 
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Masonomace

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Anthonykun covers SSD viability pretty well. I guess you don't need Airborne Assault or Slash Launcher to cover your horizontal recovery. So you can ditch them for Chakram. Since Upsmash and Chakram have improved, you can link both together for a Kill. So it will be X22X. From here is it preference. Find what works for you are play style.

I always found Shuriken of Light to be redundant with Chakram. Even though Blurring Blade is consistent now.... it is still a Read type of Move (Airdodge Read/Ledge Getup Read) while Gale Strike beats most projectiles, multihit moves that catch spot dodge, windbox at the end.

Now, Down B really comes down to your choice and matchup. You got your Counter that last longer than Marth (23v22) and yet stronger than Ike (1.3 vs 1.2 wait wut?). Good "Get Off me" tool but be predictable. Reversal Slash especially a hard hit Mario's Cape. Great for gimps and I believe we can still Cape Glide and Stall. Last is Power Thrust a better version of Falcon Kick. An amazing Tech Chase, Roll Read, and Gap Closer -> Kill option. I mean it is really up to you Masonomace. If you like to get in and do a lot of damage 3223 or Zone and Gimp your opponent - 1222. Maybe a mixed of the two. I don't know. All of Swordfighter skills work.
Radical! I also have made the shift to Chakram simply because I no longer felt the need for AA as my usual Side B now that I roll SSD, even though I enjoyed it when I did use it with HS or SS. It had applications without the obvious use of it's super good horizontal recovery to the max such as spinning to winning against the ledge to literally guard the ledge, even against characters with a warping Up B like Zelda, Sheik, Palutena, & Mewtwo. It also has some use autocanceling the landing from being used on platform stages such as Battlefield by hitting one's shield & surprising them when you land on the lower level platform.

Gale Strike is my current Neutral B choice as it has neat priority despite the move's endlag, & it's knockup angle helps set up into neat U-air juggles or just formidable pressure in general. Reversal Slash right now is my current Down B choice but that can easily change with the MU I feel, as all three Down Bs have applications & I can use them all. Mii Swordfighter is blessed to have a good spread of special moves.:)
 
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GS3K

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Anthonykun covers SSD viability pretty well. I guess you don't need Airborne Assault or Slash Launcher to cover your horizontal recovery. So you can ditch them for Chakram. Since Upsmash and Chakram have improved, you can link both together for a Kill. So it will be X22X. From here is it preference. Find what works for your play style.

I always found Shuriken of Light to be redundant with Chakram. Even though Blurring Blade is consistent now.... it is still a Read type of Move (Airdodge Read/Ledge Getup Read) while Gale Strike beats most projectiles, multihit moves that catch spot dodge, windbox at the end.

Now, Down B really comes down to your choice and matchup. You got your Counter that last longer than Marth (23v22) and yet stronger than Ike (1.3 vs 1.2 wait wut?). Good "Get Off me" tool but don't be predictable. Reversal Slash essentially a hard to hit Mario's Cape. Great for gimps and I believe we can still Cape Glide and Stall. Last is Power Thrust a better version of Falcon Kick. An amazing Tech Chase, Roll Read, and Gap Closer -> Kill option. I mean it is really up to you Masonomace. If you like to get in and do a lot of damage 3223 or Zone and Gimp your opponent - 1222. Maybe a mixed of the two. I don't know. All of Swordfighter skills work.
Cape glide got patched...
 

san.

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Swordfighter's upB3 also lets him go deep for edgeguards, while 2 needs a double jump for the horizontal momentum.
 

Masonomace

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Lately when I've been playing my Mii Swordfighter, I'd be in these situations where the opponent wants to challenge me off-stage in attempts to edge-guard me without them realizing what SSD can do. I accordingly aim my SSD towards the ledge to snap to it, or in a diagonal direction that will end up grabbing the ledge by the time SSD finishes. What happens is the opponent gets hit multiple times by SSD & is carried to the lip area of the stage, causing them to be too close to it thus the final hit stage spikes them, which is untechable. The great thing about SSD that I like about it now is the move's linear & can recover to the ledge however I want including straight downwards, & diagonally down+left to the right ledge or diagonally down+right to the left ledge.

I still like SS but would prefer it with a Taller Mii, & I still dig HS with any H/W set but wouldn't mind having more weight to increase the move's hitbox in hopes that may help string the hits together airborne, but SSD is my go-to Up Special now. Having a higher weight stat would slightly increase the hitbox of the multi-hit slashes, but I'm alright without being too heavy. Plus I'd prefer SSD to be on a 50/50 set or below, like 25/50 or something.

And one more thing, Chakram lately has been such a blessing. Soft-thrown Chakram diagonally downward to catch the ledge option leading into my Short Hop Down Air into footstool makes me feel so dirty yet the execution of it all looks so clean.
 
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Antonykun

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I still dig HS with any H/W set but wouldn't mind having more weight to increase the move's hitbox in hopes that may help string the hits together airborne
Weight does not increase the hitbox of any of Swordfighter's moves only the width oh his sword
 

Masonomace

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Weight does not increase the hitbox of any of Swordfighter's moves only the width oh his sword
?? I guess I'm confused on what you mean by this. I have custom stages made for testing purposes, like finding hitbox sizes & stuff. A Mii Swordfighter X/50 set's SSD going sideways on a platform can hit about 1 platform above the attack. But then a X/75 set's SSD going sideways on a platform can hit barely 2 platforms above the attack, which definitely proves the hitbox increases as the set's width / weight slider increases.
 

Routa

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I have been using BF (neutral special 3) lately and it is kinda odd move. It is nice for punishing spot dodge, air dodge and get up attacks. Also D-throw to BF works at low %. I also find it to be better KO move than F-smash. BF has 1 major flaw tho. And it is its lag.

What you guys think about BF?
 

DigitalAtom6

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I have been using BF (neutral special 3) lately and it is kinda odd move. It is nice for punishing spot dodge, air dodge and get up attacks. Also D-throw to BF works at low %. I also find it to be better KO move than F-smash. BF has 1 major flaw tho. And it is its lag.

What you guys think about BF?
If you check my guide, you can get my full opinion, but in short I think it is inferior than F-smash and it doesn't kill nearly as early. The d-tilt to D-smash combo kills earlier and D-throw to Uair deals more damage. It's just redundant. As far as punishes go, it's just an easier way to do it for less experienced players, but there are stronger punishes than that which you can do instead. Then I haven't even considered how bad the lag is. It's just bad.
 

Krysco

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Greetings Swordfighters! I'm doing a video series analyzing every stage and I will soon be covering Dream Land 64 which has a glitch with directional recoveries including your 2nd up special. The glitch is that when used horizontally on the base, you end up with the aerial endlag and the landing lag of the move rather than the usual grounded lag. Is this beneficial or detrimental at all for Swordfighters that run up special 2? I've only tested with guest size, I'll test with large and short Miis shortly but I question if it matters. Does Up special 2 have any offensive uses that make this increased or decreased endlag a good or bad thing?
 

Masonomace

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Greetings Swordfighters! I'm doing a video series analyzing every stage and I will soon be covering Dream Land 64 which has a glitch with directional recoveries including your 2nd up special. The glitch is that when used horizontally on the base, you end up with the aerial endlag and the landing lag of the move rather than the usual grounded lag. Is this beneficial or detrimental at all for Swordfighters that run up special 2? I've only tested with guest size, I'll test with large and short Miis shortly but I question if it matters. Does Up special 2 have any offensive uses that make this increased or decreased endlag a good or bad thing?
This is actually for the better! 'Cus I use Skyward Slash Dash aka Up Special 2, I'm trying this out & normally & like the landing result I'm getting. What would normally happen if it's not done on DreamLand64 is Mii Swordsman sliding across the floor with his hand & knees, but I have to be holding my joystick down or diagonally down on DL64. When holding it sideways, Mii Swordsman just stops in place once his move finishes, acting quicker out of it.

Landing lag doesn't change, even if you have a 0/0 & 100/100 set do it side-by-side comparison.
 
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Login_Sinker

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How's it going, Mii Swords? I went for a long while thinking this character sucked, but someone recently explained why he/she's not so bad. So I decided to give the character a try, and I really like him! Probably not going to main him (yet ;P), but I'm very interested in bringing him up to a competitive level. For someone just starting out, what are the most important things I should know about Mii Swordfighter? Specifics may include BnB, best moves for the neutral and punish game, any particularly good/bad match ups, etc.

Thank you in advance, and I'm very eager to learn this character!
 

Antonykun

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How's it going, Mii Swords? I went for a long while thinking this character sucked, but someone recently explained why he/she's not so bad. So I decided to give the character a try, and I really like him! Probably not going to main him (yet ;P), but I'm very interested in bringing him up to a competitive level. For someone just starting out, what are the most important things I should know about Mii Swordfighter? Specifics may include BnB, best moves for the neutral and punish game, any particularly good/bad match ups, etc.

Thank you in advance, and I'm very eager to learn this character!
don't read the attributes section of smash wiki for swordfighter. It underplays his good things and flat out lies about others

your tilts are your best friend for neutral as is up air and down air for advantage
uhh just try looking around this sub forum for stuff like combos and MU's and if there's still something you don't know, feel free to ask in an appropriate thread.

Good luck with your Swordfighter endeavors
 

Iko-Seiko

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How's it going, Mii Swords? I went for a long while thinking this character sucked, but someone recently explained why he/she's not so bad. So I decided to give the character a try, and I really like him! Probably not going to main him (yet ;P), but I'm very interested in bringing him up to a competitive level. For someone just starting out, what are the most important things I should know about Mii Swordfighter? Specifics may include BnB, best moves for the neutral and punish game, any particularly good/bad match ups, etc.

Thank you in advance, and I'm very eager to learn this character!
check out my post in this forum, "Nyani's Competitive Swordfighter Resource", it has a lot of general gameplay tips!
 

BoxedOccaBerrys

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How should you kill with Mii Swordfighter?

What are the better combos with Mii swordfighter?

what is the most used set for the Mii sword fighter? I personally use 2121.
 

Antonykun

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How should you kill with Mii Swordfighter?

What are the better combos with Mii swordfighter?

what is the most used set for the Mii sword fighter? I personally use 2121.
You Don't Read them into getting hit by up air or F-smash

Down throw->up air is pretty much the most consistent combo he has

2322 is what i used in a local i won yesterday (oh yeah i won a local yesterday)
 

Routa

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(oh yeah i won a local yesterday)


Power-Thrust.... This move confuses me. It is like Falcon Kick, but without the Falcon. It is rather laggy (both start up and end lag wise) and kills "kinda" late. But it is good at one thing. By my experience it is relatively good as a mix up tool. Swordfighter likes to go for the dash grab. How your foe usually reacts to it? By spot dodging. If you can "force" your foe to spot dodge when you run towards him... well they can take PT right in their face. It is fast enough to get you far enough from your foe so it is hardish to punish. Other than that it is mainly used for landing, Get up punishing and... ermm... as a Flashy tool (like Falcon Punch etc).

Edit: Well you can get kills with Dair (most of my kills are with on-stage Dairs) if your foe doesn't respect it at all (and most of them wont).

As for combos other than "Hoo ha!" Nair/Fair(ACed) -> Jab/Dtilt is very good.

I personally use 1233 with Mid/Thin size. Why PT? Well I'm a special snowflake. Well it might sound weird, but Tornado, "Ike's CC" and PT work rather well together. Why? Mix up. When I short hop back flip there is a lot of things I can do: Shall I Fair, SL, Tornado, Nair or just gain distance? Why do I use Hero's Spin? It is Hero's Spin. Do I need to even explain?
 
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Iko-Seiko

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How should you kill with Mii Swordfighter?

What are the better combos with Mii swordfighter?

what is the most used set for the Mii sword fighter? I personally use 2121.
I kill mostly with Dair gimps, Fsmash beating other attacks, or landing fair->stuff for kill confirms.

Dthrow->Uair, Landing Fair->Grab, Dtilt->Fair/Nair

I use 1332 or 1322, and it works out for me pretty well. I feel like they're the most versatile sets that cover the most matchups.
 

CSWooly

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Is DThrow -> UAir confirmed to be a kill confirm (no pun intended)?
It seems to combo to death against Sheik using the short/thin Mii, but I'm only assuming this because the CPU didn't dodge it, so take it with a pinch of salt.
 

Antonykun

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Is DThrow -> UAir confirmed to be a kill confirm (no pun intended)?
It seems to combo to death against Sheik using the short/thin Mii, but I'm only assuming this because the CPU didn't dodge it, so take it with a pinch of salt.
nope the combo counter is weird at higher percent
 

Opana

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Figured I'd post this here, I believe reverse utilt true combos into an uair kill, and this can be strung from a jab 1.

Default up b can snap the ledge if you use it immediately after letting go, and if tbey're near you they get sucked into the meteor.

If you're recovering and drag them upwards with default up b, and woukd sweetspot the ledge before the meteor comes out, you can hold down to let that hit box come out and immediately put that stick back in neutral to grab the ledge.

Jab 1 to dsmash is really good in that it forces a low, easily gimpable recovery in many mus.

Fair can drag gimp through the stage.

Nair sets up tech chases really well, sometimes I use default side b to cover them.

Dtilt sets up platform tech chases really well.

Ledge hop retreating dair is an interesting and not easily challenged option from my exp, and we can regrab the ledge.

Kinda new to and pptentially temporarily usingbmsf but I hadn't seen this stuff brought up from what I skimmed so may as well share. I play an aggressive msf actually which seems to be less than.optimal from what I've read, but honestly I'm having a lot of success. I use Ganon and just get a lot out of reading their defensive response to my actions or setting up advantageous positions like the tech rolls I mentioned, I think msf has a lot of unexplored aggresive potential. I use all default, and while enjoying their customs I'm okay wirh this.
 

MudkipUniverse

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ok I'm going to just share random crap. and Hello CSWooly CSWooly from SSF2.

I find myself doing either RAR Nair or Retreating Nair alot. It autocancels on Shorthop & the hitboxes come out later than Bair, so it's a safer move to use & also covers a lower area. Bair cannot hit grounded opponents such as, let's say, Pikachu. Nair can!

Also "RAR Nair > Fsmash" I randomly get alot, It's not legit as far as I know.
 

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What's the consensus on Swordfighter's viability if he gets access to all his moves? Seems like a solid mid tier if you ask me.
 

MudkipUniverse

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Login_Sinker Login_Sinker Agreed. 1111 Swordfighter also just feels awkward as hell to me.
Personally I think that if they were to allow customs at tournaments, it would exclusively have to be Mii's and Palutena.
 

Login_Sinker

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I was doing some labbing today and came across something cool. At low percents (0-30ish depending on character), Mii Swordfighter can do Dtilt > perfect pivot > Utilt. Since Utilt combos into itself and aerials, you can potentially rack up around 60% off of this.

Has this been discovered?
 

Antonykun

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What's the consensus on Swordfighter's viability if he gets access to all his moves? Seems like a solid mid tier if you ask me.
low tier IMO not terrible but too many flaws that aren't made up to be mid
 

TheReflexWonder

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Does anyone know where the invincibility on Shuriken of Light is, at least, in a more in-depth way than "during the startup"?
 

Antonykun

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Does anyone know where the invincibility on Shuriken of Light is, at least, in a more in-depth way than "during the startup"?
If I'm correct it covers all of swordfighter's body when he flashes red (3ds) or yellow (wii u)
 

Masonomace

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TheReflexWonder TheReflexWonder Antonykun Antonykun For 1.1.4, on frame 15-17 it looks like Mii Swordfighter's body is flashing yellow on WiiU, yet when I test Little Mac's frame 1 Jab during that frame window, Mii Swordfighter is still getting hit & doesn't phase through the attack at all. Is anyone sure this move even has invincibility / intangibility, or maybe the invincibility / intangibility property was removed at some point in a previous patch.
 
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TheReflexWonder

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Is falling D-Air -> footstool a true combo offstage at any percent? Does Rage affect it significantly?

Does anybody happen to know the air speed/acceleration stats on tiny Swordfighter?
 
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DigitalAtom6

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Is falling D-Air -> footstool a true combo offstage at any percent? Does Rage affect it significantly?

Does anybody happen to know the air speed/acceleration stats on tiny Swordfighter?
I don't have any numbers to define the speed of tiny mii sword, but I do have gifs in the guide showing how fast he walks, runs and jumps.
 

Unknownkid

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Huh? Did something happen in the Competitive Impressive thread? Why is great Reflex here and interested in Swordfighter?
 

TheReflexWonder

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Character is fun and has an Ashley costume now. :p I'm looking for secondaries all over.

What are Chakram's limitations for poking at recovery hitboxes? Will it stuff Ike's Forward-B or Up-B, for instance?
 

DigitalAtom6

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Character is fun and has an Ashley costume now. :p I'm looking for secondaries all over.

What are Chakram's limitations for poking at recovery hitboxes? Will it stuff Ike's Forward-B or Up-B, for instance?
Chakram has very poor priority when it comes to phisical attacks. It also doesn't do anything on shield. The main thing about it is that if you hit someone with it (preferably the tilt variation) you can link any move into it, so it's a great combo tool. It also edgeguards pretty nicely and sets up for gimps.
 

Unknownkid

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Character is fun and has an Ashley costume now. :p I'm looking for secondaries all over.

What are Chakram's limitations for poking at recovery hitboxes? Will it stuff Ike's Forward-B or Up-B, for instance?
Haha nice. Good luck getting Tiny Swordfighter legal in your tournament. For my experience, Chakram lose to hitboxes but it is excellent at disrupting recoveries. I feel like the Chakram's priority is poor but then again I need to test it. We didn't know that SoL lost its invincibility. So maybe... Chakram's priority is better.
 

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I'll test some stuff tonight after work. An Atlanta monthly just changed from 1111 Guest to Any Move Guest. I'll likely use the character in early sets. Perhaps against Lord Mix's Bowser and Rango's Ike, too.
 
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Clock Tower Prison

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I'll test some stuff tonight after work. An Atlanta monthly just changed from 1111 Guest to Any Move Guest. I'll likely use the character in early sets. Perhaps against Lord Mix's Bowser and Rango's Ike, too.
Any possible stream/YT channel?
 
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