Q&A Mewtwo Q&A Thread (Check Here)

[Sonicninja115]

Why do people consider mewtwo's teleport good. This move seems rather sub par.

On what skill level are you using teleport?

Teleport Analysis
Pros-

Invincible
Fast
Hard to Predict
Long
Ledge-Cancelling​

Cons-

Semi-Laggy on landing(almost unpunishable though)
Hard to Sweetspot
Mewtwo floats when he comes out of teleport​

Conclusion-

Off-Stage 9/10
On-Stage 7/10
​

Written Analysis-

Teleport can be used to great effect, however no Mewtwo player is at the skill level to use it such. Teleport comes with the AT know as Ledge-Cancelling. This technique gives Mewtwo insane movement options all across the stage. Whether it be teleporting onto the ledge for a cold-steel opportunity, or for going for the stagespike/gimp. You can also use LC on platforms besides ledges. (Note: Just watch Esam LC with Pikachu) Platform LC can be used to even further expand Mewtwo's movement options. For, as long as you know where the LC positions are you can safely teleport and LC on a platform. Afterwards, you can again, LC and move away to reset the neutral or to bait a punish. Finally, Teleport can be used to escape unfavorable situations. For example, Mewtwo is being pressured in the air by a CF. Mewtwo has the option to simply LC to the ledge or a platform, or to teleport straight down and suffer the minimal end-lag.​

 

[meleebrawler]

Why do people consider mewtwo's teleport good. This move seems rather sub par.

It's not a bad move. Any faults it has tend to be shared with other warping moves; recovering too slow to be safe against fast characters, bouncing off the stage if used improperly and prone to ledgesnap vulnerability.

Compared to other warps it's easily the fastest, yes horror stories have been spun about Mewtwo getting hit when he's seemingly disappeared but it still gives him invulnerability faster than any other.

The aerial momentum lets him cover horizontal distances that rival Zelda's, you can seriously go to the end of either of the side blastzones while using your second jump to gimp someone and still make it back with ease.

Mix this with full shadow ball recoil and you can make Mewtwo surprisingly hard to catch despite his frame.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It's not a bad move. Any faults it has tend to be shared with other warping moves; recovering too slow to be safe against fast characters, bouncing off the stage if used improperly and prone to ledgesnap vulnerability.

Compared to other warps it's easily the fastest, yes horror stories have been spun about Mewtwo getting hit when he's seemingly disappeared but it still gives him invulnerability faster than any other.

The aerial momentum lets him cover horizontal distances that rival Zelda's, you can seriously go to the end of either of the side blastzones while using your second jump to gimp someone and still make it back with ease.

Mix this with full shadow ball recoil and you can make Mewtwo surprisingly hard to catch despite his frame.

I think he has intangibilty from frames 9-16. Which is only 7 frames. I'm not sure how that can be used to escape situations seems worse than an airdodge in almost every way. I don't really see what'sthe point of using teleport after shadowball.

On what skill level are you using teleport?

Teleport Analysis
Pros-

Invincible
Fast
Hard to Predict
Long
Ledge-Cancelling​

Cons-

Semi-Laggy on landing(almost unpunishable though)
Hard to Sweetspot
Mewtwo floats when he comes out of teleport​

Conclusion-

Off-Stage 9/10
On-Stage 7/10
​

Written Analysis-

Teleport can be used to great effect, however no Mewtwo player is at the skill level to use it such. Teleport comes with the AT know as Ledge-Cancelling. This technique gives Mewtwo insane movement options all across the stage. Whether it be teleporting onto the ledge for a cold-steel opportunity, or for going for the stagespike/gimp. You can also use LC on platforms besides ledges. (Note: Just watch Esam LC with Pikachu) Platform LC can be used to even further expand Mewtwo's movement options. For, as long as you know where the LC positions are you can safely teleport and LC on a platform. Afterwards, you can again, LC and move away to reset the neutral or to bait a punish. Finally, Teleport can be used to escape unfavorable situations. For example, Mewtwo is being pressured in the air by a CF. Mewtwo has the option to simply LC to the ledge or a platform, or to teleport straight down and suffer the minimal end-lag.​

I don't really doubt the recovery although it's wonky at times. I'm more curious as to why it's considered a good tool in neutral or disadvantage. For myself I don't see. I also think ledge cancel teleport is more of a gimmick than anything else.

 

[meleebrawler]

I think he has intangibilty from frames 9-16. Which is only 7 frames. I'm not sure how that can be used to escape situations seems worse than an airdodge in almost every way. I don't really see what'sthe point of using teleport after shadowball.


I don't really doubt the recovery although it's wonky at times. I'm more curious as to why it's considered a good tool in neutral or disadvantage. For myself I don't see. I also think ledge cancel teleport is more of a gimmick than anything else.

It's simple: you airdodge near the ground, you suffer lag. And Mewtwo's aerials aren't exactly stellar for landing.
And the distance it can cover speaks for itself.

I'm not saying you use teleport after hurling yourself with shadow ball (it's a possibility though), what I mean is by mixing up your usage of both you confuse your opponent so that they can't get optimal punishes a lot. Compared to teleport, shadow ball can cover nearly the same distance with next to no endlag and without leaving Mewtwo helpless but gives no invulnerability meaning it can be intercepted if anticipated. Teleport, though, not so much.

It's usefulness in neutral and disadvantage is rather stage and character-dependent. A lot of high or top tiers have fast running speed that make teleport more risky to use which is probably why it's so underrated. And stages like Smashville or Town and City give you more options to teleport to.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I think he has intangibilty from frames 9-16. Which is only 7 frames. I'm not sure how that can be used to escape situations seems worse than an airdodge in almost every way. I don't really see what'sthe point of using teleport after shadowball.


I don't really doubt the recovery although it's wonky at times. I'm more curious as to why it's considered a good tool in neutral or disadvantage. For myself I don't see. I also think ledge cancel teleport is more of a gimmick than anything else.

In neutral Teleport is horrible, way too laggy and it doesn't go nearly far enough to be safe.

Disadvantage is another case. In certain scenarios, teleport can be used to land when Mewtwo is being pressured in the air. As we all should know, Mewtwo is very floaty and has a hard time landing, however, if you use teleport as a mix-up you can escape a potentially disastrous combo and safely land. It is a viable landing option but it should not be spammed. Use it when your opponent over-commits or when you can LC into a punish.

As for LC being a gimmick, not really, is Monkey flip a gimmick when used in conjunction with B-reverse? It is a viable method of traveling around the stage and being unpredictable. Plus, your opponent isn't thinking that they are going to be ledge-guarded when Mewtwo is in the center of the stage... In the future, LC will probably be as prominent as Fox-trotting is to FE characters. The uses of LC are great and it is not punishable if used correctly.

LC
Uses-

Gimp
Slip edge
escape risky situations
Stage spike
Unpunishable movement
and more once I practice with it for a bit longer.
​

Teleport alone is a mediocre move, but when used with LC it can be amazing. Just watch palutena players and Pikachu players. They use this tech to it's fullest(or try to) and often times they manage to end favorably because of it.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

In neutral Teleport is horrible, way too laggy and it doesn't go nearly far enough to be safe.

Disadvantage is another case. In certain scenarios, teleport can be used to land when Mewtwo is being pressured in the air. As we all should know, Mewtwo is very floaty and has a hard time landing, however, if you use teleport as a mix-up you can escape a potentially disastrous combo and safely land. It is a viable landing option but it should not be spammed. Use it when your opponent over-commits or when you can LC into a punish.

As for LC being a gimmick, not really, is Monkey flip a gimmick when used in conjunction with B-reverse? It is a viable method of traveling around the stage and being unpredictable. Plus, your opponent isn't thinking that they are going to be ledge-guarded when Mewtwo is in the center of the stage... In the future, LC will probably be as prominent as Fox-trotting is to FE characters. The uses of LC are great and it is not punishable if used correctly.

LC
Uses-

Gimp
Slip edge
escape risky situations
Stage spike
Unpunishable movement
and more once I practice with it for a bit longer.
​

Teleport alone is a mediocre move, but when used with LC it can be amazing. Just watch palutena players and Pikachu players. They use this tech to it's fullest(or try to) and often times they manage to end favorably because of it.

Yeah the ledge cancels are a gimmick. Even your example is a gimmicky one. No offense man but that's just how I see the move. I think depending on the situation it has it uses but still not a move that's really good. Just my opinion anyways thanks for taking time out to explain your thoughts on the move. I can't figure out why it's such a highly regarded move but I got a little more insight on what other mewtwo players thought of the move.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Yeah the ledge cancels are a gimmick. Even your example is a gimmicky one. No offense man but that's just how I see the move. I think depending on the situation it has it uses but still not a move that's really good. Just my opinion anyways thanks for taking time out to explain your thoughts on the move. I can't figure out why it's such a highly regarded move but I got a little more insight on what other mewtwo players thought of the move.

My opinion on the Mewtwo Meta right now is that we hardly know anything about the character, very few high level players play him, only Mewsquared and to a lesser extent Trela. As players I think we should just keep trying to push the Meta, and who knows, half a year from now we could all be saying that LC is great. and on the other hand we might all agree that LC is an AT that shouldn't even be thought of. I just hope that Mewtwo becomes a great character. Just like Shulk could be really good on a high level, but no one plays him, so he just sits there. Hopefully, Mewtwo will be different.

 

[meleebrawler]

In neutral Teleport is horrible, way too laggy and it doesn't go nearly far enough to be safe.

Again this depends on who you're facing. Characters like Fox or Falcon who run very fast can catch up even if they don't totally anticipate it, severely limiting it's use there. And of course the majority of top tiers do have this trait, which is one of the reasons he struggles so against them. But aside from those it's good for escaping situations where you're getting pinned down.

Aerial teleport goes pretty much as far as Zelda's horizontally, does her teleport not go far enough either? Lag and lag alone is why it gets punished. Unless it's teleporting into the ground to reduce said lag, which is only really used for landing since short-hop air dodges are generally superior to both teleport and rolls for covering shorter distances.

 

[RayNoire]

Aerial teleport goes pretty much as far as Zelda's horizontally, does her teleport not go far enough either?

That's just blatantly false though.

And yeah, Teleport's pretty bad unfortunately. It seems to be the most prone to Teleport-cide, and landing into the ground is WAY laggier than it should be. I played Palutena the other day and was amazed at how much better her Up B is in, like, every conceivable way.

Edge cancel is neat but unfortunately Mewtwo doesn't have a lot of options to cover himself after the cancel. Your best option is to jump, which just sort of resets the whole landing problem. It's better than nothing but it doesn't make the move great or anything.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Again this depends on who you're facing. Characters like Fox or Falcon who run very fast can catch up even if they don't totally anticipate it, severely limiting it's use there. And of course the majority of top tiers do have this trait, which is one of the reasons he struggles so against them. But aside from those it's good for escaping situations where you're getting pinned down.

Aerial teleport goes pretty much as far as Zelda's horizontally, does her teleport not go far enough either? Lag and lag alone is why it gets punished. Unless it's teleporting into the ground to reduce said lag, which is only really used for landing since short-hop air dodges are generally superior to both teleport and rolls for covering shorter distances.

Zelda's goes farther on the ground then Mewtwo's, as Mewtwo's shrinks when used on the ground. Plus, Mewtwo's doesn't have a hitbox like Zelda's.

 

[meleebrawler]

Maybe I should have mentioned that I was considering the aerial momentum Mewtwo carries after an air teleport as part of the distance he travels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite Teleport's many faults it's still an important move to learn. You have to be careful with it, but anything that makes you more mobile is a boon when your survivability is poor.

 

[PEACE7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq2en0ZIEx0
At 0:37 did he upB through the stage?

 

[meleebrawler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq2en0ZIEx0
At 0:37 did he upB through the stage?

No, that was just an airdodge. Still goes to show what Mewtwo can do from a ledge if you can look past the standard options.

 

[PEACE7]

No, that was just an airdodge. Still goes to show what Mewtwo can do from a ledge if you can look past the standard options.

Oh that's pretty cool!

 

[TrueDimentioKirby]

Who is considered the best Mewtwo main? Or who here considers themselves a good Mewtwo?
I don't fight good ones ever, and I want more practice

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

How do I git gud? I've been playing Mewtwo since the initial release, but I dropped him for a while because I noticed I wasn't that good with him. I tend to have a lot of trouble with heavies, especially Bowser. Please...help me git gud...

 

[meleebrawler]

How do I git gud? I've been playing Mewtwo since the initial release, but I dropped him for a while because I noticed I wasn't that good with him. I tend to have a lot of trouble with heavies, especially Bowser. Please...help me git gud...

You gotta be patient. Chip away at them from a distance with your shadow balls and spacing while staying mobile. Dsmash is good for baiting reactions or stopping reckless dashes.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

That's pretty helpful, thanks. Oh and down smash's baiting ability is similar to Ganondorf's up smash if I'm reading correctly?

 

[meleebrawler]

That's pretty helpful, thanks. Oh and down smash's baiting ability is similar to Ganondorf's up smash if I'm reading correctly?

More like Meta Knight's fsmash in terms of utility/hitbox placement but yeah.

It takes a while to get a good grasp of everything Mewtwo; his physics, his movement options (particularly for escaping disadvantage), the optimal spacing and uses of his moves etc. so don't be discouraged if you lose quite a bit early on. His skill floor may be high but the ceiling is that much higher.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Alright, thanks m8!

 

[adom4]

On Battlefield confusion sends some of the characters up on the platform, is there a list somewhere of the characters that get sent up on it?

 

[Top Boss]

On Battlefield confusion sends some of the characters up on the platform, is there a list somewhere of the characters that get sent up on it?

didn't that get patched already

 

[adom4]

didn't that get patched already

For Ganon it did, it's still a thing with confusion.

 

[meleebrawler]

On Battlefield confusion sends some of the characters up on the platform, is there a list somewhere of the characters that get sent up on it?

Dthrow is a more reliable option for that anyway.

 

[Sonicninja115]

For Ganon it did, it's still a thing with confusion.

There is a semi list in the stage discussion thread.

 

[Jamurai]

Simple question: when you fastfall Nair into the ground dragging the opponent with you, what determines whether they end up behind you or in front of you? I can't seem to figure it out.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Simple question: when you fastfall Nair into the ground dragging the opponent with you, what determines whether they end up behind you or in front of you? I can't seem to figure it out.

Check out the Nair KB thread for a more detailed explanation, but the short answer is that it works best if you FF at the top of your jump. You can also look on what side they are on for a clue.

http://smashboards.com/threads/nair-knockback-guide-complete.413975/

I also put this section under AT in the metagame thread.

 

[Exegguter]

Hey guys,

I'm mainless right now which is quit frustrating lol. So I'm searching for a main right now and I'm REALLY feeling Mewtwo. I was wondering if you guys see any potential in my Mewtwo so I can practise with him and get a main . If not, I'll search for some other character.

https://youtu.be/592zzLNtp_0

https://youtu.be/yQxCRKtwQg4

Thanks in advance! :0

 

[meleebrawler]

Hey guys,

I'm mainless right now which is quit frustrating lol. So I'm searching for a main right now and I'm REALLY feeling Mewtwo. I was wondering if you guys see any potential in my Mewtwo so I can practise with him and get a main . If not, I'll search for some other character.

https://youtu.be/592zzLNtp_0

https://youtu.be/yQxCRKtwQg4

Thanks in advance! :0

Pretty good for just having picked him up.

Though keep in mind that most of the time it's best not to be too aggressive with Mewtwo since, well... you saw what happened to your first stock in the second video. Spacing your moves carefully and evading well is crucial.

Dashing to shield doesn't really work well with Mewtwo since he has low traction and his OOS options aren't that great with his short grab.

And finally, Confusion (side b) is your friend for moving in the air.

 

[Exegguter]

Pretty good for just having picked him up.

Though keep in mind that most of the time it's best not to be too aggressive with Mewtwo since, well... you saw what happened to your first stock in the second video. Spacing your moves carefully and evading well is crucial.

Dashing to shield doesn't really work well with Mewtwo since he has low traction and his OOS options aren't that great with his short grab.

And finally, Confusion (side b) is your friend for moving in the air.

Thanks! Appreciate the Info.

Just started playing him since friday. I was a Luigi main but I don't like the character since day 1 lol. I'm planning on using Mewtwo in tourneys now.

Are there any good Mewtwos I can learn from? You have some vids online of yourself? The only Mewtwo I know is mewsquared... Any japanese ones?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Thanks! Appreciate the Info.

Just started playing him since friday. I was a Luigi main but I don't like the character since day 1 lol. I'm planning on using Mewtwo in tourneys now.

Are there any good Mewtwos I can learn from? You have some vids online of yourself? The only Mewtwo I know is mewsquared... Any japanese ones?

There is a japanese player but I forgot his name. He mains three characters so he doesn't use Mewtwo alot, but his videos are on SHI-G if you want to try and find him. Alos, make sure to look in the video thread, as most Mewtwo videos end up there.

 

[SeanS]

I was wondering if there is any active channel of communication between tournament Mewtwo players (chatroom, skype, discord, etc.), and if I may join it.

I've secondaried Mewtwo for the longest time, and I've thrown him out in bracket recently with an acceptable level of success, so I may as well.

(understand this is probably the wrong thread, but would rather my post get serious attention than get drowned out in a social thread)

 

[Krysco]

Greetings fellow Mewtwos! Doing a video series analyzing each stage and Dream Land 64 is being the third stage I cover. I noticed on this stage that certain directional recoveries behave strangely when used horizontally on the base, including psychic cat's. When performed horizontally on the base of DL64 you end in the air and get the aerial 'glide' of Teleport as opposed to the usual grounded endlag. This hardly seems to matter since Teleport has too much endlag to be used to pass an opponent or projectile without getting punished and this glitch actually leaves Mewtwo with more endlag since he suffers his aerial endlag and landing lag which from what I can tell is worse than his grounded endlag.

Can anyone think of anything beneficial from this? You move further so maybe against slow characters with no projectiles you could slip past them but the extra endlag makes me doubt it. Oddly enough, this does not prevent us from ledge cancelling and the same applies to Palutena but it does prevent it from working for Zelda. I actually found out from testing with Mewtwo that it seems to only apply to the center of the stage. If you Teleport from the left side of the right platform and go directly right you either ledge cancel or get the usual grounded endlag. If you Teleport from the same spot but to the left you get the glitch I'm talking about.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Greetings fellow Mewtwos! Doing a video series analyzing each stage and Dream Land 64 is being the third stage I cover. I noticed on this stage that certain directional recoveries behave strangely when used horizontally on the base, including psychic cat's. When performed horizontally on the base of DL64 you end in the air and get the aerial 'glide' of Teleport as opposed to the usual grounded endlag. This hardly seems to matter since Teleport has too much endlag to be used to pass an opponent or projectile without getting punished and this glitch actually leaves Mewtwo with more endlag since he suffers his aerial endlag and landing lag which from what I can tell is worse than his grounded endlag.

Can anyone think of anything beneficial from this? You move further so maybe against slow characters with no projectiles you could slip past them but the extra endlag makes me doubt it. Oddly enough, this does not prevent us from ledge cancelling and the same applies to Palutena but it does prevent it from working for Zelda. I actually found out from testing with Mewtwo that it seems to only apply to the center of the stage. If you Teleport from the left side of the right platform and go directly right you either ledge cancel or get the usual grounded endlag. If you Teleport from the same spot but to the left you get the glitch I'm talking about.

The oddest things I have noticed about DL is that if Mewtwo teleports down while standing on a platform, he cannot LC. He goes back into the center of the stage, regardless of which direction Mewtwo is facing.

 

[Metalex]

The oddest things I have noticed about DL is that if Mewtwo teleports down while standing on a platform, he cannot LC. He goes back into the center of the stage, regardless of which direction Mewtwo is facing.

I also noticed this today while analyzing Teleport canceling on the stage. Have no idea what causes it though as on most stages Mewtwo would go into the direction he is facing.

 

[Krysco]

A quick test reveals that this is not exclusive to Mewtwo. Palutena and Zelda also go to the middle of the stage regardless of the direction they are facing. Tested with Fox as well to see if it was a directional recovery thing and he flew off the stage the way he was facing so it's exclusive to the teleports. Why? I have one theory and it may explain the 'glitch' I found with numerous directional recoveries.

If you go to Halberd (or most likely any stage with ramps like Delfino or Mario Maker) and go on the upper platform after the lift off part but before it lands on the Halberd and you get Mewtwo to do his teeter pose on the ledge of the platform and try to Teleport straight down, he will go towards the stage despite facing away from it. If you try this slightly before the teeter pose area, Mewtwo will go in the direction he was facing and even go up the ramp. Pretty sure this applies to the other two teleporters too.

That being said, Dream Land 64's base is flat or at least appears flat. If you use Kirby's Final Cutter, the wave goes in a straight line where as on Halberd it goes down the ramp. Gordos, fast falls, moves that cause a slide on ramps like aerial Falcon Kick. They all behave the way they would on Battlefield or any other flat stage, yet directional recoveries, namely teleporting ones, behave strangely.

I'm guessing that despite the flat base of DL64, it's 'coded' or something to behave like a ramp. Teleporting directly towards the middle of the stage from the ledge on Halberd leaves Mewtwo in his aerial state just like on DL64. Perhaps the ramp or maybe numerous ramps are such a small degree that most moves that behave differently on ramps behave as though the stage is flat since it largely is. But for moves that are drastically affected by even the smallest elevation change, they behave as though there is a ramp.

I don't know. I'm no coder or hacker or game designer. All I know is TL;DR directional recoveries, namely teleporting ones act as though DL64 has ramps.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

I have trouble against Bowser, do you have any tips for the matchup?

 

[Sonicninja115]

I have trouble against Bowser, do you have any tips for the matchup?

Space yourself, try to take him to DL, T&C or FD as those stages offer plenty of movement.

Remember that Bowser has a lot of Landing/lag, so use that to your advantage. FC Shadow ball, Usmash, Disable

He has a linear approach, unless he uses SH Fair, so try punishing wiith a SB, or punish his jump with Utilt/Usmash.

His recovery sucks and is rather predictable, like the old phrase goes, "If Sakurai gives you a Dair, send Bowser to the shadow realms."

Bowser is going to kill you really early, so be very careful and above all, PATIENT. That is one of the keys to Mewtwo. Don't do anything excessively punishable and try to space him out.

I hope this helps!

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Wow, thanks, i knew about his predictable recovery.

and i might as well ask another question, If i was to ledge cancel Teleport, what should i do after i cancel it?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Wow, thanks, i knew about his predictable recovery.

and i might as well ask another question, If i was to ledge cancel Teleport, what should i do after i cancel it?

After an LC, depending on where you LC, you can Bair/Fair or grab the edge. Using Nair or another Teleport is another good option.

LC with Mewtwo hasn't really been explored yet. So no combos or AT are known as of yet.