Mewtwo Patch "Dump"

[Esquire]

While I'm working on Brawler changes, noticed something really big that needs official testing out in regards to Pit/DPit.

Full hop and general aerial arrows now suffer much, much less endlag. SH arrows, however, still have grounded endlag.

I'll report anything else I find that needs confirming as well. This is pretty certain, as I was just bombarded by a Pit who fired arrows with much more speed.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

sure they may have nerfed diddy but in doing so they are basically allowing ZSS to take his place by being able to abuse the exact same strategy albeit by using stun to a tether grab instead of using a banana. Everyone i know or talk to for the most part agrees to some degree that while yes she may lack a ton of kill options she racks up damage very quickly, can control a large portion of the stage thanks to her mobility and her one true KO option can be applied in nearly every pressure situation to guarantee herself either large amounts of % or an early KO thanks to the moves huge knockback growth and rage.

That and characters like charizard didn't need nerfs but instead should have received buffs in areas like jump height. the removal of the ability to utilize tilts while holding items also hinders characters like mega man and link who used the tech in order to get necessary setups. I feel like the dev team threw this patch together as a sort of way to just shut people up rather than actually sit down and analyze these characters and figure out what the best course of action could be taken to round them out as individual characters.

 

[Aninymouse]

I don't get why they are nerfing low tier characters like Diddy, Sheik, Sonic, and Rosalina, and meanwhile buffing already high tier characters like Zelda, Kirby, Samus, Lucina, Swordfighter, and Ganondorf.

Terrible patch.

Heh.

 

[ravenred1992]

Anything on pit or dark pit?

 

[Captain Norris]

So no changes to falcon at all? I guess that is a good thing, but I dunno, falcon needs some slight bufffs imo

 

[check_mate]

None of this is changed.

Lol what do you mean none of this is changed? I just confirmed in training mode pre-patch and post patch...

 

[ravenred1992]

So no changes to falcon at all? I guess that is a good thing, but I dunno, falcon needs some slight bufffs imo

Yeah, ok a fast ganon with buffs.

 

[AnchorTea]

@Indigo Jeans

Either i'm going crazy, or the one chop was removed.

 

[Funkermonster]

Anything happen to or ?

 

[Aninymouse]

Fsmash and ftilt still whiff at point blank range against slim characters.

I can confirm. One of the first things I checked! At point-blank range, DK's FSmash completely misses Mario. Same as before.

 

[an1bal]

Anyone with 1.0.5 wants to help me test something out?

 

[Shyguymask]

Unless there's a lot of demand, I'm not going to invest time investigating rumors of knockback changes. That's a lot of time spent chasing things that are probably true that Dant's data dump will solve instantly.



Falco throws all involve projectiles. The raw data is misleading.



Probably, shoot.



I mean, what you are asking would take a couple of hours for me to do, for a single character. My job here is to filter out changes that we at least have some reason to believe are true; I can't be testing every move in the game myself.

It takes several hours for just one character? I thought it would takes maximum one hour, maybe even 45 minutes.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

people who are complaining about characters like sonic, rosalina and such overrunning the game now should be more worried about ZSS becoming more prevalent. She wasn't changed in the slightest and arguably now will have the easiest time taking stocks thanks to dthrow > uair > up-b strings on nearly the whole cast. She basically is now what sheik would like to be if she was a bit faster and with better reach.

You forgot the part where her neutral is garbage and still has bad matchups against like half the top tier.

 

[Thinkaman]

Based on Kid Liquid's guide (created pre-patch), titled "Zeroing On Zero Suit Samus", Dash Attack did 10% and Ftilt did 6%. Here is the link to the guide: http://smashboards.com/guides/zeroing-in-on-zero-suit-samus.32/

Here is a video of me testing the two moves in question in training mode post patch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGJDPn3IiaY&feature=youtu.be

What is misinformation is claiming it is unchanged in the face of testing and evidence. Not trying to be mean or anything, just wanted to share patch testing information for the benefit of the community.

Looks, I'm sorry that under these circumstances I don't have time to be nice, but here are the facts: I have 2 3DSs in front of me, testing each version. They haven't changed. They both reflect the same damage values in the original 1.0.4 data dump.

I don't care what internet page you have; it's wrong. Asserting incorrect sources as accurate undermines this entire process and discussion.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Reddit is reporting that the Charizard 8% -> 11% buff is incorrect and deconfirmed.

This is wrong. I can re-confirm that this change is definitely real.



I mean that none of it is changed. This is incorrect, misinformation. Not the first, and won't be the last.



If by "got compare every property of every move of this character with no reported changes", then yes, I can.

But I'm not going to.

Reddit is wrong.

Everything with Zard in the op is correct.

 

[chainmaillekid]

De-confirming all changes.

Sakurai is a troll.

 

[pin2108]

Meta Knights down-throw changed from 6 to 8% damage output. Also rumbles the screen now.
Priority on attacks also seems to have increased, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Doval]

Based on Kid Liquid's guide (created pre-patch), titled "Zeroing On Zero Suit Samus", Dash Attack did 10% and Ftilt did 6%. Here is the link to the guide: http://smashboards.com/guides/zeroing-in-on-zero-suit-samus.32/

Here is a video of me testing the two moves in question in training mode post patch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGJDPn3IiaY&feature=youtu.be

What is misinformation is claiming it is unchanged in the face of testing and evidence. Not trying to be mean or anything, just wanted to share patch testing information for the benefit of the community.

A guide is not evidence, and the guide is wrong. I just tried both moves on my v1.0.5 3DS and they did 8% and 7% respectively. I'm guessing Kid Liquid hit with f-tilt's sourspot, but I don't know how he managed to be wrong on the dash attack. You can see the damage for both moves in the game's data too: dash attack, forward tilt.

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario got a change after all.

http://smashboards.com/threads/road-to-stardom-mario-metagame-thread-v1-06.399067/#post-18995718

Now that I'm home from work I'll look into more changes more thoroughly.

 

[S_B]

I could swear that the frequency of star/screen KOs has increased, though it could be a placebo...

 

[Macedonian]

edit @ HeroMystic beat me to it, i was saying same thing

 

[sc458]

I could swear that the frequency of star/screen KOs has increased, though it could be a placebo...

Of all the things Sakurai and the Smash team could address in a balance patch, do you REALLY think it would be the frequency of star/screen KOs!?

 

[DustinxD]

Has anyone done any testing with Yoshi? I saw literally 3 posts regarding him across these 25 pages with nothing else mentioned and I'm not home to test anything currently. Yoshi is unloved.

 

[Charu]

Has anyone done any testing with Yoshi? I saw literally 3 posts regarding him across these 25 pages with nothing else mentioned and I'm not home to test anything currently. Yoshi is unloved.

Heya, in the Yoshi boards, regulars have been saying there's been pretty much no difference. If there is a difference, it's very insignificant.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Any news regarding Shulk? His ass needs to be nerfed. Also, THANK GOD for sloped Lylat Cruise

 

[S_B]

never mind, debunked

 

[Darthrai]

Apparently Charizard's air mobility and jump height have been improved, can anyone confirm?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

's Nosferatu doesn't put her (him) on Helpless state anymore.

Raziek's testing seems to contradict this. Are you certain?

 

[The_Cardinal]

's Nosferatu doesn't put her (him) on Helpless state anymore.

It still does.

'ed

 

[Delzethin]

's Nosferatu doesn't put her (him) on Helpless state anymore.

Oh yes it does.

 

[S_B]

I've confirmed that Bowser taking someone over the edge with flying slam on Smashville goes to SD where it previously killed Bowser first and the opponent popped out and could recover.

Only stage I've found so far where this has changed.

Yeah, "WTF, Sakurai?!" pops to might right about now...

Debunked. I had bad data on what stages did this previously.

 

[Thinkaman]

Apparently Charizard's air mobility and jump height have been improved, can anyone confirm?

No change that I can see.

And yeah, successful aerial nosfertu goes into helpless falling state.

 

[Dendros]

Some things I noticed about greninja:

Greninja's Substitute now has a longer window for counter attack, The actual attack may come out faster, and there is more lag after you use the move and miss. (Pretty sure on this one)

The rest might be wrong:

It seems Bair's range and KB are reduced slightly.

Dair doesn't make your character model stretch as much now (or I may just be hallucinating)

Less landing lag on his Nair.

Uair seems to do more KB now.

 

[Dendros]

Reddit is reporting Villager f-throw buff from 7%->9%. It always did 9%.



Greninja has none of these changes.

You sure?

 

[internetmovieguy]

Still unconfirmed but i think they Nerfed Greninja

also:
Marth can Fair -> Fair true combo!
Falco's lasers are faster
I can't B-reverse anymore it must of been patched out

Kappa

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Sheik f-throw's damage has been reduced to 2% from 7%.

 

[Thinkaman]

Sheik f-throw's damage has been reduced to 2% from 7%.

No, it's always been 5% + 2%.

 

[InfinityCollision]

@ check_mate When citing previous data, you want to use something up to date for the prior update whenever possible. In the future, I would definitely recommend finding a better source than a guide that is several months out of date... it predates the 1.0.4 patch and was never updated.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

No, it's always been 5% + 2%.

My mistake, training mode didn't register he two hits of F-throw as a combo.

 

[Chukkaque]

Referencing the last patch vs data I noticed today.
I also have only tested a few of these characters:

Bowser:
Appears to have more knock back on attacks
Has more control over Side B Closer to %/earlier

Lucina:
Dspecial while directing down, now combos up to 20-25% assuming no misses.
She can kill around 70% with a Fsmash no charge past the middle of the stage.
Seems to have greater knock back
FSmash does about 15%

Luigi:
(not sure if new)
FSmash (ful charge) can kill near edge at 65%, 90% from center stage
Back throw can kill at 100%

Marth:
Fsmash Tipper near edge can now kill opponents at 20% when the tipper hits resulting in their death at around 45%. Marth can also kill mid stage around 45-55% with a Fsmash Tipper.
Dspecial now does 15-20% damage
FSmash does about 15%, not as great of knock back as Lucina

He can also now spot dodge immediately after shieldbreaker ends.

Ness:
Back throw no longer kills around 90% on edge, now is about 100% with 2-4 jabs and then a back throw.
Uair kills around 120-140% no stale/DV
PK Fire seems to knock back farther with initial hit, also seems to do more damage
(Against bowser, if he is below 10%) Ness' 1st and 2nd hit of his jab inflict no flinching damage.

Shulk:
FTilt now does 11% vs 13%
Can kill at 65% FC USmash
Can kill near edge FC FSmash at 70%

General system notices:
Appears most characters kill potential can now happen around the 120% mark.
Stale Moves/DV appears to not be as strict (not fully tested)


Please note these are just our current findings, we are doing more testing tonight with the same characters and a few others. These were all done on FD or Omega stages on Wii U.