Delta-cod
Smash Hero
It was probably Vex Kasrani, who's begun to use Pit. He's very good.
There's one way to stop this. Stand on a platform, jump, shield, etc.
There's one way to stop this. Stand on a platform, jump, shield, etc.
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Metamorphosis: The Universal Yoshi Matchup Discussion Thread
- Thread starter .Marik
- Start date
Yeah, it was Vex Kasrani.
Makes sense. Still, it runs the the timer. So if the Pit is ahead, I can image thing being a bit frustrating.
Personally I wouldn't want to go to Delfino or anything like that vs Pit. I guess it's alright if you stay ahead in percentages and stock. I'm just afraid of messing up and falling behind when I'm on solid ground. And them getting timed out.
Makes sense. Still, it runs the the timer. So if the Pit is ahead, I can image thing being a bit frustrating.
Personally I wouldn't want to go to Delfino or anything like that vs Pit. I guess it's alright if you stay ahead in percentages and stock. I'm just afraid of messing up and falling behind when I'm on solid ground. And them getting timed out.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
I played Sagemoon yesterday, and he CPed Halberd on me. He didn't do a whole lot of the Uair through the stage thing, but it still worked out for him. I don't really like it there.
I personally found Battlefield to work pretty well against Pit. The platforms help us to get underneath Pit without the threat of being punished by his Wings of Icaris tricks, and the smaller stage size gives him less room to camp us.
I personally found Battlefield to work pretty well against Pit. The platforms help us to get underneath Pit without the threat of being punished by his Wings of Icaris tricks, and the smaller stage size gives him less room to camp us.
Did he camp on the solid stage part? I mean the ship stage is pretty big.
BF makes sense vs Pit.
I think Brinstar is a good CP as well. It's small and it has a low roof. The stage breaking in two can be a problem though, as that makes it into 2 very small separated segments. Staying in mid to close range is best vs Pit, but the 2 small segments are both too small and cramped to fight in, and too far away to effectively eggtoss, so that's annoying. I'd say just wait it out in that situation. dodge his arrows and stuff. Maybe. I dunno.
BF makes sense vs Pit.
I think Brinstar is a good CP as well. It's small and it has a low roof. The stage breaking in two can be a problem though, as that makes it into 2 very small separated segments. Staying in mid to close range is best vs Pit, but the 2 small segments are both too small and cramped to fight in, and too far away to effectively eggtoss, so that's annoying. I'd say just wait it out in that situation. dodge his arrows and stuff. Maybe. I dunno.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Well yeah, of course he camped. =P That's another problem with Halberd; he can harass you from underneath on the first part, then camp you on the ship.
Brinstar actually sounds pretty interesting as well, but I don't particularly like that stage, and I didn't want to risk CPing a stage I don't do that well on. Things like the uneven terrain and the breakable pillars could also make Pit's arrows a bit more awkward to use.
Brinstar actually sounds pretty interesting as well, but I don't particularly like that stage, and I didn't want to risk CPing a stage I don't do that well on. Things like the uneven terrain and the breakable pillars could also make Pit's arrows a bit more awkward to use.
One thing to keep in mind with Pit is that stopping arrows is nice, but they can still spam swordies.The deal with Brinstar is that all the destructible parts of the stage give him extended timers on all his attacks by stunning his hitboxes. HIS SMASHES AND TILTS LAST FOREVER. You can use the stock "wait and punish" answer, but not only is that answer barely applicable on NORMAL stages, but Yoshi's standard "I would like to punish your ridiculous bullsh*t" tools don't really cater to such uneven terrain.
I'm not saying it's a bad Yoshi stage, but if you are trying to CP Pit, you should really CP the player, and not the character. In my experience that holds true, anyway.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I laughed really hard at this.
Anyways, I doubt most of us feel comfortable at all on Brinstar, which is why it's always my ban. I would personally prefer being taken to RC by MK than Brinstar. As far as taking Pit there goes, his attacks are so spammable that while it's nice to prevent his arrow spam, I'd rather not have to be so close to him at all times. I do like my breathing room and all.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Heres a question, if brinstar stops pits arrows, say we get a stock lead would he have to approach?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Wtf brinstar doesnt stop pits arrows. Just certain parts of it and pit can hit from tons of angles its not hard. That is a very good stage for pit i would suggest not going there.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
His arrows don't kill ever, so he has to approach if we get a stock lead if he wants to kill.
Hm, I probably wasn't clear. By stopping his arrows, I meant that since the stage is so cramped, he doesn't have a lot of room to run away and arrow camp us. However, I don't like being close to Pit for too long, so I wouldn't go to Brinstar ever.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Pit just full hops backwards and shoots.
He can do it on battlefield, and he can do it on brinstar.
Pit doesnt even need to camp, his close range game is really good, those jabs are nasty.
He can do it on battlefield, and he can do it on brinstar.
Pit doesnt even need to camp, his close range game is really good, those jabs are nasty.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
I meant to say % lead lol and with those explanations i can guess my own answer.
A good Pit that can aim can camp on pretty much any stage he wants. The only stage I can image that might be a problem for pit would be a custom made stage with 4 tiles and nothing else. Some stages are worse than others, but the conditions for arrow spam really aren't that strict.
Well I like Brinstar. I feel the stage works well with Yoshi's mid to close range spacing vs Pit. As for uneven terrain, it takes getting used to. The good thing about the terrain is that there are a hell load of slanted parts on the stage so you can cancel your downBs with those slants. The acid can bring Pit high up into the air, positioning him for uair KOs and stuff.
Well I like Brinstar. I feel the stage works well with Yoshi's mid to close range spacing vs Pit. As for uneven terrain, it takes getting used to. The good thing about the terrain is that there are a hell load of slanted parts on the stage so you can cancel your downBs with those slants. The acid can bring Pit high up into the air, positioning him for uair KOs and stuff.
Depster
Smash Champion
I agree Shiri, and I don't know what's wrong with Delta... Brinstar, in my opinion, is an awesome Yoshi stage. The slopes and low ceiling make it too easy to get uair kills and silly mindgames.
Sharky
Smash Master
brinstar is a good yoshi stage, true, but it's so easy for someone to go "lol metaknight" when you CP it, which kind of nulls the benefits =/
There are 7 different usable slopes on Brinstar, it's pretty nice. The slope that leads to the bubbly connector things is kinda weird though. If the connectors are unbroken, it's possible to for Yoshi to slide down that and another slope to DJ off the side of the stage. If the connectors are somewhat broken, you can doublejump with the little space it gives.
Oh, why does Yoshi sometimes freeze when he downBs over the connectors?
EDIT: lol metaknight
Does Brinstar play well for MK?
Oh, why does Yoshi sometimes freeze when he downBs over the connectors?
EDIT: lol metaknight
Does Brinstar play well for MK?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Lets just say thta yoshi vs MK on brinstar is like a 20-80 at best
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
*dead @ Brinstar love*
Airborne
Smash Lord
happened to me in tournament against a falco/ICs main, in pools of a midwest circuit.... i was quite pissed.
and that's one reason why lexington now bans pocket metaknights at our weeklies; if you don't main metaknight, you're not allowed to ****ing use him.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Lexington is amazing. Pocket anything makes CPing so difficult, I always make sure I CP a stage I'm comfortable on and am confident I won't get gayed on by a pocket anything. This is why Castle Siege is one of my favorite CPs. Lylat and Delfino also rock.
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
I have Firefly's matches against Sagemoon if that'll help at all. I just have to upload them to my computer.
Airborne
Smash Lord
It was surprisingly my idea to ban pocket mk. XD
But yeah, there's only one mk main in lex anyways (and isn't really that good compared to everyone else here...), so we thought we'd be fair to him and let him use the only character he's mildly decent with. The fact that Cp'ing MK on any stage your main is bad on kinda takes away the beautifiul art that is known as CP'ing stages.... It's what makes smash stand out so well.
PRO. This dude is SO pro!!! Get those up puhhhleeezzzzz
Metatitan
Smash Master
How about captain falcon?
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
Yoshi vs Pit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19zfyuhNlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhE1bYo8kdI
From what I can tell pivot grabs and forward smash outranges a lot of what pit has, but I don't know the matchup very well so that's the extent of my knowledge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19zfyuhNlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhE1bYo8kdI
From what I can tell pivot grabs and forward smash outranges a lot of what pit has, but I don't know the matchup very well so that's the extent of my knowledge.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I've only watched the first match as of now.
First thing: Get Arrow Looped. Daaaaaaaaaaamn.
From what I can tell, Firefly doesn't know the MU very well. =P
Basically, I saw that Pit had a lot of air stalling tricks using WoI. Every time Firefly went for the Usmash as Pit was falling, he WoI stalled and punished. Also, Pit's arrow game is gay, though most of it can be avoided by jumping towards him. It has a blindspot of about a 45 degree angle in front of him. Firefly kept trying to go from the ground or short hop, when what you want to do is Full hop towards him, at least in my experience.
Offstage, you can't really gimp Pit. However, if he does get low and uses WoI to recover, don't wait for him, and go below the stage after him. He can't attack you then unless he used the Wing Renewal trick to chase you out, but in most cases, he had already grabbed the ledge. If he attacks, he'll fall like a rock and die. If you hit him, he falls like a rock and dies. He really does hassle us with arrows though. He can kind of chain them on you, so you're forced to DJ to get away. This makes our recovery more linear, which is bad. You'll want to recover high in this MU, looks like.
First thing: Get Arrow Looped. Daaaaaaaaaaamn.
From what I can tell, Firefly doesn't know the MU very well. =P
Basically, I saw that Pit had a lot of air stalling tricks using WoI. Every time Firefly went for the Usmash as Pit was falling, he WoI stalled and punished. Also, Pit's arrow game is gay, though most of it can be avoided by jumping towards him. It has a blindspot of about a 45 degree angle in front of him. Firefly kept trying to go from the ground or short hop, when what you want to do is Full hop towards him, at least in my experience.
Offstage, you can't really gimp Pit. However, if he does get low and uses WoI to recover, don't wait for him, and go below the stage after him. He can't attack you then unless he used the Wing Renewal trick to chase you out, but in most cases, he had already grabbed the ledge. If he attacks, he'll fall like a rock and die. If you hit him, he falls like a rock and dies. He really does hassle us with arrows though. He can kind of chain them on you, so you're forced to DJ to get away. This makes our recovery more linear, which is bad. You'll want to recover high in this MU, looks like.
I can't say this is all Pits, but Sagemoon seems comfortable approaching from above. I saw you trying to punish him with something grounded as you waited for him to fall, only he could usually extend his air time a little bit with wings of Icarus and then dive in with a fair. I suppose in that situation, Yoshi should use eggtoss to get him out of the air.
Another thing I noticed that worked were eggs at almost-close range. Medium or long range doesn't work at all for obvious reasons. But when you were fairly close and doing eggtoss, things looked awkward for him. I sound a little stupid saying this, maybe I am. I dunno, near close range eggs seemed to work.
For you long range would be a light eggtoss' range away from him. If you venture any farther, things kinda suck.
Nice choice in music though, lol
EDIT: Deltacod was faster to respond.
Another thing I noticed that worked were eggs at almost-close range. Medium or long range doesn't work at all for obvious reasons. But when you were fairly close and doing eggtoss, things looked awkward for him. I sound a little stupid saying this, maybe I am. I dunno, near close range eggs seemed to work.
For you long range would be a light eggtoss' range away from him. If you venture any farther, things kinda suck.
Nice choice in music though, lol
EDIT: Deltacod was faster to respond.
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
At one point he does wait for the upsmash when pit uses woi, and at another point he takes advantage of pit's holding arrow and gets him with a falling nair. So try charging an upsmash when pit uses woi from above.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Yes, I did watch the second vid as I was posting and noticed that he charged the Usmash for a KO as well as doing a falling Nair as Pit was pulling an arrow. My post is more trying to provide a view of the MU using Firefly's matches as examples.
indigestible_wad
Smash Lord
Yeah I know, I was just trying to expand to something more specific.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
How very observant of you. :embarrass
A lot of what I was trying to do in those matches was get around his arrows/trade hits with eggs, and punish his WoI shenanigans. I got pretty predictable trying to do the former though, and my punishing was kinda inconsistant. For the arrows, I was airdodging/spotdodging predictably, and he'd sometimes just wait until after the dodge was over and hit me afterwards. v.v I was pretty much doing trial and error against his WoI, and it worked sometimes, but needless to say, that kind of play is not condusive to winning a tournament set. XD
Trial and error isn't the best strategy.But if you're up against something and you don't know how to beat it, you have to make the choice to either lose on the spot or see what happens. I think you made the right choice in that regard.
Of course, working on the predictability helps this side of your game, as well. :D
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I demand we discuss Pit moar, since I just got beat by one.
We have nothing to go off of if people don't contribute more information.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Well, for starters, what do you think were the big things that were giving you the most trouble? I'll try to help, but I'm generally mediocre at theorycrafting, so bear with me. >.<
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Basically, dealing with Pit's stupid amount of spammable close range moves.
His arrows when try to not have to use your DJ to recover are so gay too.
His arrows when try to not have to use your DJ to recover are so gay too.