MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[shadowlink3]

d3 can do it to wolf, dk, samus, himself, bowser on the edge, mario luigi, more than 4. stuff gets found out every day. your reasons don't even sound all that valid you completely assume some1 is going to do it to stall and thats that.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Only you could just go "There, you used 4 Peach Bombers in a row, that's the threshhold.". With this, you have to time it. How long will Meta be allowed to hold the cape? And who will be standing by with a stopwatch to time him every single time?

Also, let's say we allow Meta-Knight to hold it in for a maximum of 5 seconds. 5 seconds left on the timer of a match, he does it, goes invincible, no way to win. Well, I guess I shouldn't have allowed him to stay out of hitstun!

Are you joking? You're looking into this way to ****ing hard. Its seriously way easy to tell when someone is stalling the match, like seriously, get over it. Just because the people you play with would use it to cheat, doesn't mean everyone is going to.

 

[Dojo]

Because it's only on 4 characters. It only makes those 4 characters unviable against him (and he's not even the hardest matchup for some of them, despite the infinite).

This allows Meta-Knight to win against everyone. You're ahead by 2%? Down B. You just won the match by getting 1st blood. In order to compete, everyone would have to play Meta-Knight. Competitive Play would devolve into whichever Meta-Knight gets the 1st hit in.


It's not that hard. Since if you notice someone doing it, you can go get a TO and have them watch the Meta-Knight's fingers. Every time Meta-Knight does Down B, the TO only has to throw a quick glance at their fingers to tell if he's doing the stall.

Also, a time limit? What would this arbitrary time limit be? How long will we allow Meta-Knight to use it to make Down B more safe? How long will we allow Meta-Knight to use it to allow him to stay invincible?

I mean, when he does it at the wrong time and will have to appear and stay open for quite a while, he can just initiate the Stall and then travel to a safe distance. Or he can just hold it 'til he finds an opening and releases it and hits his opponent.

How long will he be allowed to do it? And if so, who will be standing by at each Meta-Knight game to determine whether someone is holding their Down Bs in too long or not? "Oh no, I only meant to hold it in for 2.99 seconds!" "Too bad, it was 3.01 seconds." - What, are they to stand around with stopwatches.

Precedence says that this has to be banned outright for brokenness and to prevent abuse.


Only you could just go "There, you used 4 Peach Bombers in a row, that's the threshhold.". With this, you have to time it. How long will Meta be allowed to hold the cape? And who will be standing by with a stopwatch to time him every single time?

Your making this way too much of a technicality. It's obvious when a player will be using this to excessively stall a match, and when he'd be trying to get out of a tight spot.

No I dont expect anyone to sit there with a stopwatch timing something. That's just stupid. Doing it for any longer than 5-10 seconds even is overly difficult. Which by then is already considered stalling.

You said when he does it at a wrong time, a meta can just stall it. No, from what's been seen here, you have to begin the stall immediately after pressing DownB. Performing it isn't as simple as it sounds...

 

[shadowlink3]

Your making this way too much of a technicality. It's obvious when a player will be using this to excessively stall a match, and when he'd be trying to get out of a tight spot.

No I dont expect anyone to sit there with a stopwatch timing something. That's just stupid. Doing it for any longer than 5-10 seconds even is overly difficult. Which by then is already considered stalling.

You said when he does it at a wrong time, a meta can just stall it. No, from what's been seen here, you have to begin the stall immediately after pressing DownB. Performing it isn't as simple as it sounds...

its tiring, i don't know if any1 can keep this up, their arms will start bleeding.

 

[HiddenBowser]

There will be people who will master it, but that still doens't change the fact that its easy as hell to spot when someone is stalling or using it to get out of a tight spot.

 

[Jartravious]

i just played my friend using it in a 3 stock game with 5min i had 2 lives and he had one so i decided to test the ability of the move to stall and i did it for about 1:30 sec but i bet someone would be able to do it for around 3 and take a win using it

 

[Yuna]

d3 can do it to wolf, dk, samus, himself, bowser on the edge, mario luigi, more than 4. stuff gets found out every day. your reasons don't even sound all that valid you completely assume some1 is going to do it to stall and thats that.

No, he can't. He can only do a standing infinite on three characters. For Bowser, he actually has to walk slightly forward, but just barely. But that's only 4 characters.

You assume no one is ever going to use this to stall. If we allow it, someone will.

Are you joking? You're looking into this way to ****ing hard. Its seriously way easy to tell when someone is stalling the match, like seriously, get over it. Just because the people you play with would use it to cheat, doesn't mean everyone is going to.

Somewhere, sometime down the road, someone will use it to stall if we don't ban it. It's Competitive gaming. Anything that's legal will be used.

No I dont expect anyone to sit there with a stopwatch timing something. That's just stupid. Doing it for any longer than 5-10 seconds even is overly difficult. Which by then is already considered stalling.

Difficulty of performance is inconsequential. If it's humanly possible to get down, people will master it.

You said when he does it at a wrong time, a meta can just stall it. No, from what's been seen here, you have to begin the stall immediately after pressing DownB. Performing it isn't as simple as it sounds...

Just always initiate the stall. You sacrifice a little bit of time for more safety. Try to see if you'll need to stall it right before performing it, predicting, you know. I'm not saying it's easy. But it's not impossible. But this isn't really important.

 

[Magik0722]

this looks like one for the backroom, no need to make absolute law right now that its been out for less than 1 hour.

 

[shadowlink3]

i dont get it, why are you trying to fight every1.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Somewhere, sometime down the road, someone will use it to stall if we don't ban it. It's Competitive gaming. Anything that's legal will be used.

Thats why you ban stalling with it.

 

[Jartravious]

what moves/combos/techniques are baned anyway?

 

[Yuna]

Guys, guys. Rules must be easily enforcable. So how do we regulate this? A time-limit seems to be the only way. But then, what happens when someone goes past that time limit just slightly? What happens if the TOs can't tell whether someone is just toeing the line or actually going past the time limit?

And what will said time-limit be, anyway? It's much easier from a TO's point of view to just ban it outright.

 

[HiddenBowser]

i dont get it, why are you trying to fight every1.

Because he ha a different opinion than every1.

 

[Yuna]

Guys, guys. Rules must be easily enforcable. So how do we regulate this? A time-limit seems to be the only way. But then, what happens when someone goes past that time limit just slightly? What happens if the TOs can't tell whether someone is just toeing the line or actually going past the time limit?

And what will said time-limit be, anyway? It's much easier from a TO's point of view to just ban it outright.

 

[Cat Fight]

This is absolutely gross....





I love it. @_@

 

[Jartravious]

Yuna has a very good point think how many Meta Knight players are going to be at a tournament and if you were to enforce the rules by timing you would have to have someone watching every Meta Knight player which at larger tournaments could be a huge amount

 

[acv]

would it be banned if someone found an easier way to do this such as changing control configurations?

 

[Jartravious]

i dont think the issue lies within how it is done the issue is the abilities use for stalling

 

[HiddenBowser]

Guys, guys. Rules must be easily enforcable. So how do we regulate this? A time-limit seems to be the only way. But then, what happens when someone goes past that time limit just slightly? What happens if the TOs can't tell whether someone is just toeing the line or actually going past the time limit?

And what will said time-limit be, anyway? It's much easier from a TO's point of view to just ban it outright.

We've delt with stuff before as a community in melee and it wasn't a big deal. Look at people stalling on a ledge, its the same thing, you should be able to do it for a little time but after a couple of seconds it gets reall obvious that they're stalling.

 

[shadowlink3]

Just ban for stalling purpose's. not ban it in its entirely, thats like banning every infinite in brawl, if you do, might as well ban the game cause this game is FULL of infinites.

 

[Jartravious]

but how would a TO realistically regulate it without lots of staff to watch each meta knight?

 

[shadowlink3]

We've delt with stuff before as a community in melee and it wasn't a big deal. Look at people stalling on a ledge, its the same thing, you should be able to do it for a little time but after a couple of seconds it gets reall obvious that they're stalling.

it does, like i said in the post, using it to stall is lame, using it in a fight, cool.

 

[HiddenBowser]

but how would a TO realistically regulate it without lots of staff to watch each meta knight?

you would regulate it the same way that TO's regulated ledge stalling in melee, you let the **** people play and if someone is stalling you call someone in charge over.

 

[Dojo]

but how would a TO realistically regulate it without lots of staff to watch each meta knight?

Excuse me.... APPROXIMATELY 3 seconds....

So somebody pushes the limit and goes 4 seconds.... Same thing with ledge stalling...


It'll happen even if unintentional... Intentional would be going for 10+ seconds back and for across the **** stage. Then it deserves the ban.

You can't regulate a technique down to the bone.... And to just up and ban it without much thought in less than the hour or so it's been out it dumb...

 

[Frames]

This looks cool, but not game-breaking, certainly not worthy of banning, if you use it to stall you are penalized as such.

You could technically wobble someone up to 999 and stay that way for the whole match, but nobody ever does it because it's ridiculous. This isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned.

 

[shadowlink3]

This looks cool, but not game-breaking, certainly not worthy of banning, if you use it to stall you are penalized as such.

You could technically wobble someone up to 999 and stay that way for the whole match, but nobody ever does it because it's ridiculous. This isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned.

nicely said.

 

[OFY]

This looks cool, but not game-breaking, certainly not worthy of banning, if you use it to stall you are penalized as such.

You could technically wobble someone up to 999 and stay that way for the whole match, but nobody ever does it because it's ridiculous. This isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned.

^^agreed


10 charsssssssssssss

 

[Dojo]

i <3 frames

 

[theONEjanitor]

they're not going to ban the move outright.

stalling is banned no matter what move you use to do it, no ones going to ban the move altogether just the stalling part

 

[HiddenBowser]

yuna wants to ban it altogether, lol

 

[shadowlink3]

finally people are starting to see it better... ****.......

 

[Swordplay]

I would give it 5 second....It's biggest purpose could be used for stalling but I see a nice approach game in this. D-Cape past a falco laser spam and attack out of it....

 

[Cat Fight]

Although it does give Metaknight an even greater advantage, I don't think it should be banned altogether.

As a stalling technique, of course.

But as the Brawl metagame progresses I'm sure there will be ways to discourage this sort of thing in-game or find ways around it.

Too soon to tell, imo.

 

[Yuna]

I've said this already:
With ledgestalls, we do not regulate how long someone does it, we regulate how many times someone does a certain move that's banned for stalling purposes. We can easily monitor this. One, two, three, four, five, you're out!

Meta-Knights held-down B? What, we're supposed to use stopwatches now? What if someone decides to make it part of their style to continiously, whenever possible, use it to stall the game for short periods of time, pushing the limit every single time?

We'd have to have a TO with a stopwatch watch every single one of his matches and continously time his Down Bs to see to it that he doesn't go over the limit.

Also, why do people use "It looks cool!" as an example? Who cares?! If it can be used to stall and if monitoring it takes way too much time and effort, we don't care if it "looks cool". I'm, however, not going to push for it to be auto-banned altogether, of course. For stalling purposes, auto-banned.

At all? Debatable. I'm just putting forth the reasons for why I think it should be autobanned.

 

[Debonu]

i think it will be freaking crazy to watch metaknights teleporting around the stage apearing from thin air and boom dsmash dead he he he

 

[GodotAA]

iunder stand both points but to totally ban it is silly. No body can do that for6-8 minutes with out getting tired.

A time limit should be put into place because it can be used to "mindgame" i'm not sure how yet cause all i got is alevel 9 computer to work with right now

but if someone is constantly stalling right after they get outof it something like that should cause a DQ

 

[Wrathful]

o.o... **** just got real. Rofl, too epic.

 

[Kitamerby]

I feel so pathetic. Its as if my fingers can't even move fast enough to get it working on 1/4 speed.


But I wonder, how would one justify a stall?

What if I use this to extend my Dimensional cape for a cape hog? Would that still be considered stalling?

 

[GodotAA]

thats what i was thinking about using it for or maybe after a cancelled shuttle loop

 

[3xSwords]

**** (10 char)

This sums up my opinion about this discovery lol. Although mine's is the **** broken one. So I'm going to have to agree on Yuna on this one. Please just hear me out as I'll try to explain my reasons friendly so I expect the same if you argue my points. m'kay

I've said this already:
With ledgestalls, we do not regulate how long someone does it, we regulate how many times someone does a certain move that's banned for stalling purposes. We can easily monitor this. One, two, three, four, five, you're out!

Meta-Knights held-down B? What, we're supposed to use stopwatches now? What if someone decides to make it part of their style to continiously, whenever possible, use it to stall the game for short periods of time, pushing the limit every single time?

We'd have to have a TO with a stopwatch watch every single one of his matches and continously time his Down Bs to see to it that he doesn't go over the limit.

Also, why do people use "It looks cool!" as an example? Who cares?! If it can be used to stall and if monitoring it takes way too much time and effort, we don't care if it "looks cool". I'm, however, not going to push for it to be auto-banned altogether, of course. For stalling purposes, auto-banned.

At all? Debatable. I'm just putting forth the reasons for why I think it should be autobanned.

This is obvious. Everybody has basically recognized that used for stalling should be banned. Although I'm going to say that keeping this tech while preventing the banning usage will be impratical like Yuna said. And that saying it looks cool is a bad reason to keep it. Do it in friendlies but not competitive play.

I would give it 5 second....It's biggest purpose could be used for stalling but I see a nice approach game in this. D-Cape past a falco laser spam and attack out of it....

This is the second reason why this tech should be banned. This is the other use that you would use this tech for: to get out of a sticky situation. But this is why I believe it should be banned and this will be the aspect that will probably be argued most.

If you get really deep into brawl. You will realize that its a position battle. By taking advantage of your position and the enemies position you can win the battle. Position matters b/c depending on where you are on the battlefield you will have more or less pratical options.

Generally if a character is in the air and the opponent is attempting an aerial clash they all have the pratical options of air dodging the attack, attacking with a better move, jumping and avoiding conflict, or FF'ing away. The attacker knowing the person in the air has only the following four options can then use a move that will take advantage of as many of these options as possible resulting usually in damaging the opponent.

In the same way if a character was being pressured towards the edge they now have very few options that are pratical: Spot dodge, attack, roll, jump away. The pressurer is forcefully eliminating all other options the opponent may have by forcing them towards the edge. However, if you add in MK's new infinite cape then you give MK an undeniable advantage in terms of position warfare.

If he was being pressured towards the edge, he now has the ability to teleport anywhere on the stage and reset the position advantage to neutral or give him the advantage. There are other moves which can shift an advantage like the move counter, shield, spotdodge, any move with an invincibility frame like wolf's reflector. However, these are not broken b/c they are either available to the whole cast: shielding and spotdodging, or their ability to shift an advantage comes with some disadvantage: counter, long post lag, reflector short range and invincibility frames don't last that long.

However, MK's infinite cape defies both options, not only is it character specific but there are almost no major disadvantages in doing the move, as you can get as far away from the opponent as possible to prevent yourself from being in danger of taking damage. MK now has a clear advantage over everyone else. As a result I believe MK's infinite cape while nonetheless cool to watch and an amazing discovery is unfortunately too broken to be allowed in competitive play.

That and I'm sure M2K will find some way to abuse this