Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: King Dedede

[Omni]

Nah, the match-up is definitely 60-40.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

u guys are nuts


its even, i play both, i would know

 

[AfroQT]

u guys are nuts


its even, i play both, i would know

nvm lollllll

 

[M@v]

wow are you serious?

this matchup is complete superbooty, the only reason it feels hard is because it's your secondary

it's completely terrible for ddd. i three stocked m2k because he was playing outrageously aggro game one, and game three he obviously still didn't understand the matchup. it's not one of those matchups you can just go into and destroy, but if the mk knows it i don't see how ddd can win...at all. one error leads offstage, leads to edgeguard, leads to death

Correct me if I'm wrong Coney, I don't mean this offensively either, but your D3 is mostly about reads.

Is this true? Its the gist I've gotten after playing you a few times in tourney and friendlies.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Correct me if I'm wrong Coney, I don't mean this offensively either, but your D3 is mostly about reads.

Is this true? Its the gist I've gotten after playing you a few times in tourney and friendlies.

I'd say the trick to this MU - other than intelligent spacing - is to constantly "do things". Don't just stick with a handful of moves because they're useful - use anything and everything MK can throw at him to mix it up and prevent oneself from being predictable. Be wary of Waddle Dees/Doos/Gordos, as those things will be a pain, and Dedede's Ftilt beats all of MK's ground options (not sure about MK's B moves though, so someone care to contribute on that one?). As long as we're not directly above him, he shouldn't nail us with his Utilt. D3's Bair has good range and comes out fast, and can be launched twice in a single short-hop, so be careful with that too. This MU isn't hard to deal with if you know how the MU works. Not that it's a cakewalk, but at 60:40, it's obvious it isn't that troublesome either.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

guys, stop arguing, its even

just look at the matchup chart

 

[Exdeath]

guys, stop arguing, its even

just look at the matchup chart

-3 for King Dedede then?

 

[Claire Diviner]

guys, stop arguing, its even

just look at the matchup chart

You do know the MU chart shows the MU as +2 in favor of Meta Knight, so in top level play, MK has a clear advantage. Maybe not enough to be a hard counter to Dedede, but enough for the MU to be around 60:40.

 

[JonathantheMeSa]

I dunno I mean it kinda seems like since you say at the top top level of play that it's even that this is probably more of the person being a really good player and not so much DDD being a good character.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

masky ur effing crazy




its clearly 56-44 ddd, nut job

 

[Master Raven]

i'm sure it's really 51.453573573784/.048 ddd

 

[!!!RM!!!]

Dedede has bair and inhale and his grab does 16%

You've got me there.

 

[ぱみゅ]

One of the few things I can help with:

FD is commonly known for be a good stage for DDD, IMO, it's mostly because of the CGs, so people do not have much room to move and DDD can't do stuff for a really long time. However, he can't do much against MK here because he can't get CG'ed. Also, DDD's recovery options are really limited there. So FD is not really a good option to take MK.

I think Picto may be a better stage for that. It is big enough to help DDD survive at really high percentages. Also, his defensive game allows him to stay in the "Safety Zone" much better than most other characters.
Norfair and Rainbow Cruise are good for DDD too. No, I'm not crazy. DDD's air game is good enogh to compete against MK's, and those stages promote aerial fight, a lot. Just try it.

Almost everywhere else, MK *****.

 

[Laem]

guys guys guys
ddd beats mk
just gordo everything he does
he might dodge some
but eventually he'll have a heart attack, and therefore is forced to forfeit the set.

(real talk when i play decent to good mks with d3 they always nado through my doos n dees to punish but gordo just ***** that **** so hard XD)

 

[Claire Diviner]

Alright, guys, let's be a bit more serious about this. I mean, just because MK's S Tier, doesn't mean we should laugh at every MU, because characters are getting more and more experience in the MK MU. Dedede's Ftilt is indeed a pain, and MK has no ground options to answer it, but he can still hover above it and sort of poke Dedede with a well-spaced Dair. That said, I'm not sure what Dedede's answer to MK's well-spaced Dair will be, so if anyone has any knowledge of that, it'd be appreciated.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

by using it as much as possible



it beats tornado!!

 

[Master Raven]

Dedede's Ftilt is indeed a pain, and MK has no ground options to answer it, but he can still hover above it and sort of poke Dedede with a well-spaced Dair. That said, I'm not sure what Dedede's answer to MK's well-spaced Dair will be, so if anyone has any knowledge of that, it'd be appreciated.

Well for ground options, shield -> ftilt/grab can do the trick if you're quick and close enough, and while usually used in the air, tornado easily beats it.

As for the Dair... well if it's well-spaced in that you can't you can hit him back with your aerials, then **** you got me LOL

 

[Claire Diviner]

Well for ground options, shield -> ftilt/grab can do the trick if you're quick and close enough, and while usually used in the air, tornado easily beats it.

As for the Dair... well if it's well-spaced in that you can't you can hit him back with your aerials, then **** you got me LOL

And with that, I've learned something useful. I wasn't sure if Dedede's Ftilt can be out prioritized by Nado, but now that I do know, it means his Ftilt isn't much to worry about, though we still ought to take care as to not make our Nados too obvious... not that it matters that much, I would think.

 

[!!!RM!!!]

So D3 has options that beat Nado, but they can be beaten by delaying Nado and can be baited>punish.

How about approaching, spacing, etc? Who comes out on top?

 

[Orion*]

So D3 has options that beat Nado, but they can be beaten by delaying Nado and can be baited>punish.

How about approaching, spacing, etc? Who comes out on top?

I dont see why people think d3 cant wait and then utilt lmfao

 

[!!!RM!!!]

imo its because D3's Utilt comes out in 12 frames lol. Combined with superb reaction time it comes out in roughly 24-30 frames on average. So D3 has to see that the Nado will reach him half a second before it reaches him. Thing is, MK can control Nado so he comes within mere frames of being in Utilt range and still be safe. D3's 28 frames of Utilt cooldown is fairly easy to punish even with mediocre reaction time. MK has about half a second to react and punish his Utilt.

I interpret this in 3 points:

1. Dedede has to throw out Utilt long before the Nado actually reaches him. Therefore, the Meta Knight can abuse that by forcing a reaction and then punishing cooldown.
2. Dedede must dedicate to a single option being either Utilting the initial Tornado approach or waiting for the MK to hesitate and then predict when he will approach again. Both players have to do a lot of guesswork when Nado is out, but in this situation Meta Knight is not limited to as few options as Dedede is.
3. There is a limit to the Dedede's ability to punish Tornado. Meta Knight has to be somewhere in the range of 24-40 frames away to actually punish Nado on reaction(this is out of a standing animation, NOT OoS). If the Meta Knight is within a certain distance of Dedede, the D3 player is forced to go on prediction to punish the Nado, while MK can use more reliable react>punish options out of Nado.

 

[AfroQT]

I dont see why people think d3 cant wait and then utilt lmfao

Rofl you must be under the impression that D3 timing the utilt on an mk tornado is easy.

Its easy if the MK is a ****** and does the full screen full speed tornado INTO King Dededes ****in big *** head, yeah of course thats easy rofl.

 

[DewDaDash]

I wanna mm afro just to see if he knows what hes talking about or not.

On a real level though, I can't believe u guys are still discussing this MU past 08, like nothing has changed rofl.

 

[AfroQT]

I wanna mm afro just to see if he knows what hes talking about or not.

On a real level though, I can't believe u guys are still discussing this MU past 08, like nothing has changed rofl.

Rofl we can make that happen son, i dont think ive ever ever ever lost to a D3 with MK, and you already know me and seibz (we both know the matchup so good) was gettin in dat d3 when we u+m2k at whatever convention. Shi was free just sayin tho ilu.

EDIT:
Actually i may of lost back when i was straight using him only for Seibrik back in 08/09 against his d3.

 

[DewDaDash]

rofl, I had a feeling you would bring that doubles match up. I dont wanna john but I was playing like booty that day, I even managed to lose to who was it.. greenace? lmao. That was like my worst performance in my brawl career. I did get that nice suck in gimp on you tho <3.

Singles is a lot different than dubz tho. Either way tho I'd still like to mm you lol.

edit: Btw i <3 your commentary. I think it was the NLL stream, it actually made the mk ditto match entertaining(SeibsvsHal), (the commentary of course, not the actual match, that was boring as balls, xcpet for halzy rage quitting <3). I wish i can reach that commentary status someday, I can only pull off something like that when im drunk lol.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

hahahahahahahahahahaha



dew sucked afro, u heared it here first folks, in the mk/ddd discussion thread!

where quality posts is our only goal

 

[AfroQT]

hahahahahahahahahahaha



dew sucked afro, u heared it here first folks, in the mk/ddd discussion thread!

where quality posts is our only goal

0/10 didn't even frown

 

[vato_break]

this matchup is not that easy

 

[AfroQT]

this matchup is not that easy

so which d3 did you just lose to?

 

[vato_break]

i lost to yo momma

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

shes pretty good, all she did was sit on me while we took a lylat cruise to delfino plaza

 

[Kaffei]

LMFAO @ Seibrik

@RM: never ceases to amaze me lol

 

[Orion*]

Rofl you must be under the impression that D3 timing the utilt on an mk tornado is easy.

Its easy if the MK is a ****** and does the full screen full speed tornado INTO King Dededes ****in big *** head, yeah of course thats easy rofl.

I ****ing LOL'ed

 

[Joaco]

What counterpick should we ban?
For starters I think Smashville is great, other?

 

[-LzR-]

No starters are really bad against Dedede I think. But I would go SV or BF so ban the rest like FD.

 

[AfroQT]

FD is the best stage for D3 in this matchup, because very very rarely will platforms ever help him vs MK, they can provide him with a killer setup every now and then (if you end up grounded on a platform holding shield with d3 below you...), but platforms benefit mk much much more. I'd ban FD.

 

[Exdeath]

Pictochat -- if it's legal -- is better than FD IMO.

 

[Player-4]

Ehh I'd rather go to Picto, transformation can help you a lot more than just playing on a flat stage the entire time