Discuss all information pertaining to Meta Knight in this thread.
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Who the hell is Sean?Are we talking Sean level nerfs?
i hope MK will develop like Pikachu from SSB64 to Melee: Still awesome, but not that hard.Guess MK will develop like Kirby from SSB64 to Melee.
Street Fighter 3.Who the hell is Sean?
That just means he's more of a secondary character for you. That's not really weird.You guys are gonna be totally weirded out by this, but while I was good with Meta-Knight, he is far from my best.
Big fan? He made it.I like Meta Knight as a general character, and I know Sakurai is a big fan of the Kirby series so I'm sure he'll make another appearance in Smash Bros. 4.
I have a feeling people will like him more with him being nerfed, and will still use him in Smash Bros. 4 to prove the point that they didn't just use him in Brawl because he was broken.
Theoretically, yes, Meta Knight should play differently, but his moves might remain the same. The hitboxes might change, and they may make him more balanced to boot, but as mentioned, the game engine will most likely make the way he actually plays, and which move of his is useful very different.I really can't think of a way to nerf Meta Knight. His moveset seems fine but I don't play Brawl enough to know why he's "broken" in Brawl. Make him slower, smaller hitboxes? I don't know. Also, wouldn't Meta Knight play different in a different game engine? I doubt it'll play the same like Brawl so would that be a change in and of itself?
His Down Aerial has okay ending lag, it's his Up Aerial that needs to be fixed, either by giving it more ending lag, reducing range/priority, or a combination of both.Make Nado a single hit move and considerably shorter in duration, make it have hitlag for SDI, make mobility harder, reduce priority significantly, and make it a vertical kill move for less use outside of that.
Make shuttle loop have vertical knockback.
Make D-smash have more ending lag.
Make D-air have more ending lag.
Make D-tilt have slightly less shield lag frames for easier punishes by people like Yoshi.
Baby make it happen...
What do you guys think? :o
Captain Falcon isn't broken, but he can do some very unpleasant things to people once he grabs them in Smash 64, usually by doing 0-Death combos. In Melee, he was noticeably nerfed, but he still worked well with the game mechanics thanks to his buffs, including a new Fair (The Knee). In Brawl, it's more than the mechanics that screwed him over, but the hitboxes to his moves having either changed, or reduced in size, and his grab is much shorter, and his overall kill power has also been nerfed.I think Meta Knight will stay relatively the same but get royally screwed over by new mechanics, similar to Captain Falcon in Brawl. I mean one of the reasons why he is so broken is because of the hit stun abuse, right?
You are aware that Infinite Dimensional Cape (IDC) is banned from tournament play. Also, there's a good chance they'll fix the move for Smash 4 so that it cannot be done indefinitely anyway, so as a move by itself, without the glitch, it's perfectly fine.You guys have it all backward - Meta Knight doesn't need all those nerfs, everyone else needs to be buffed so they're about as good as Meta Knight. Also, not everything about Meta Knight is so over-powered that it's 'impossible' to balance him. I'd say that there are only two things that need to be balanced about Meta Knight:
1. Dimensional Cape
Dimensional Cape is obviously the #1 unbalanced attack because of it's potential to be used indefinitely (noticed I use the word "indefinitely" and not "infinitely"). Even with the potential to disappear indefinitely, it's still not that big of a deal because the amount of effort required to use it doesn't actually pay off enough in practice, only in theory.
Mach Tornado is only bad because of the priority, hit box, and maneuverability. Rather than axe the move, they can just reduce the hitboxes, make it so that it doesn't have as much priority, so even Mario's Nair can hit MK out of it, and increase the landing lag by just a little bit; a good recovery option without becoming a beast for an offensive option.2. Mach Tornado
Mach Tornado is just dumb. I thought it would be his Final Smash but instead they made it his standard Special Attack. If they want to balance it, the Hit Box size should be dropped and it should be made intangible. It's my personal opinion that they should just replace it with a better special attack.
Whether it's a glitch or exploit is irrelevant, what can be agreed upon is that it was not intentionally programmed into the game, considering what needs to be done to perform it. Also, are you seriously going to say it isn't bannable? It is not discreet, due to the noticeable increase in duration of the invisibility and distance that can be traveled compared to a normal Dimensional Cape. And the reason the competitive community calls it "Infinite Dimensional Cape" (it's even in the official ruleset), is because so as long as one is good enough to maintain the invisibility, they can remain invisible for an indefinite amount of time. Even if it isn't used to stall, it can still give the MK player an otherwise unfair advantage of approach, as well as unprecedented defensive and offensive capabilities.@Sol Diviner
Calling the 'Dimensinal Cape Glitch' an 'Infinite Dimensional Cape Glitch' is a misnomer because it isn't infinite (I'm not even sure it qualifies as a glitch, either). It's not bannable because it's discreet and hard to enforce. I think you mean to say that excessive stalling is discouraged an indefinitely using the Dimensional Cape to stall out matches is grounds for a penalty.
M2K does (I just had to), $5 says he uses the most broken character in smash 4prove the point that they didn't just use him in Brawl because he was broken.
Shuttle loop is pretty dumb too. I'd be fine with the grounded version if it lost some of its KO power, and I think the air version needs less base knockback and more knockback growth to compensate.You guys have it all backward - Meta Knight doesn't need all those nerfs, everyone else needs to be buffed so they're about as good as Meta Knight. Also, not everything about Meta Knight is so over-powered that it's 'impossible' to balance him. I'd say that there are only two things that need to be balanced about Meta Knight:
1. Dimensional Cape
2. Mach Tornado
Dimensional Cape is obviously the #1 unbalanced attack because of it's potential to be used indefinitely (noticed I use the word "indefinitely" and not "infinitely"). Even with the potential to disappear indefinitely, it's still not that big of a deal because the amount of effort required to use it doesn't actually pay off enough in practice, only in theory.
Mach Tornado is just dumb. I thought it would be his Final Smash but instead they made it his standard Special Attack. If they want to balance it, the Hit Box size should be dropped and it should be made intangible. It's my personal opinion that they should just replace it with a better special attack.
It should keep its horizontal knockback since it is used for gimps, but it shouldn't be able to KO at such low %s given how fast and versatile (and safe) the move is.The thing they need to do with aerial Shuttle Loop's knockback, as mentioned before, is give it the same vertical knockback as a grounded Shuttle Loop, that way, MK can't easily KO characters as low as 40-50% when used off the edge of the stage.
MK would still have insane speed, multiple jumps, and edgeguarding. I don't think nerfing air SL to the point where it won't KO at 40% would be that bad considering he'd still have the best edgeguarding game to back it up.Like I said, don't go nerfing Meta Knight when you can buff the other characters. Nerfing Shuttle Loop just means that Meta Knight will have to have to play a campier strategy until he gets you to that KO percent. We don't want the next game to be more defensive/campy, do we? No, we want all the characters to be awesome and capable of epic attacks.
What are you talking about? Of course you can tell when the move actually begins and when the player extends it. The reason it's banned is - as said before - it gives the player the potential to stall indefinitely and/or gain an unfair advantage of approach unlike any other character in the game, even if it's extended slightly, the extended frames are still noticeable and it still gives the player the ability to approach the opponent safely than intended.@Sol Diviner
I said the Dimensional Cape glitch is 'discreet' because you cannot tell the exact moment it begins. There's a vague timing between a 'normal' use of the Dimensional Cape and when the exploit kicks in. Either way, I'm against banning it's use as an exploit as much as I am against banning any other Advanced Technique in the game.
The difference between Dimensional Cape and other techniques that are used for stalling is that Dimensional Cape can also be used offensively; remain invisible until the opponent's guard is down and then strike with the Dimensional Cape's hitbox. If the opponent uses projectiles to force an approach, repeat the process; extend the cape, make your way to the opponent's position, and strike. Even if it isn't used for stalling, but for offensive purposes, it is still a very unfair advantage that Meta Knight would have if banning the exploit wasn't in effect. This is why stalling is banned, and then this technique specifically is banned, and is the only technique in Brawl to be banned.If someone is 'stalling', that's a different matter entirely and it's up to a Ref's judgement call for however the tournament handles such things. In other words, stalling with Dimensional Cape is no different than stalling with any other technique, so layering bans on top of bans of the same thing is simply an exercise in redundancy.