Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Pheta Ray]

Alright, so say I'm playing this Wolf. I have him on the ropes with a Nair, then a Dair into the bottom left. This will be on FD for all intents and purposes.

Suppose he gets past me with SideB, catches the ledge. I get back, and he scars (sideB through the ledge) into a Shine Cancel. What would be my best OoS option from here? I was thinking a fresh GSL would do the trick.

 

[-Se7en-]

ZeRo taught me that GSS is a great move,and you should abuse it if you keep hitting them with it basically.If he falls for it,keep doing it.GSS resets your juggling incase he is about to land.You should ban Final Destinaion anyways and counter pick Battlefield since you can GSS him up a platform,land GSS again,land,GSS and you have him pretty high in the air at around 20-40%.If he camps you just stay on the platform,but if you are at kill percent he may try to side b sweetspot.

 

[ぱみゅ]

No good Wolf will Fsmash unless they get a read already (probably from a in-place tech from a Dthrow).

If they are close from you they will either grab or Dsmash, at high damages both are very problematic, one will kill relatively early and the other will put you in a very bad spot.

idk, Wolf is a very difficult Matchup I never really understood as MK, I barely learned to PS lasers; that was useful to an extent, because that allowed me to wear down his zoning game and begin to poke him with tilts, but then he kept throwing Bairs and return to be annoying....

The good thing about the MU is that he can't change directions in the air very well, and he WILL be short hopping a lot (he needs his Bairs and his lasers), so trying to be cautious about his ranges and where he is going to land is always useful.
Also, his blaster is slow and very telegraphed, learn the animation and you'll be able to PS it consistently.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Okay, one last question. Does anybody know how long Metaknight's shield drop is?

 

[Heru]

7 frames like other shield drops (except Yoshi's)

 

[Demna]

I'm gonna play a Diddy Kong main who's said to be godlike. I'm willing to battle his Diddy with MK; however, I'm not found of the Diddy Kong MU at all and I bet he's experienced in the Metaknight Matchup. How should I play in this matchup? What should I do? What moves should I be wary of? What stage(s) should I pick to counterpick to Diddy? What stages should I bann? I'd appreciate finding answers to other useful questions as well

 

[-Se7en-]

Check the MK Diddy matchup.
1: Diddy's recovery is pretty decent
2: If he has 2 bananas don't play defensive
3: Uair juggle him as much as possible.
4: He can use dash attack to pick up bananas,and he can do anything after dash attack.
5: His fthrow and bthrow are his best throws.
6: Dair camping on platforms on stages like Smashville is helpful.
7: Ban Final Destination.
8 : If you have the bananas,you have a great advantage but don't be stupid.Diddy can still camp with a peanut popgun.
9: SHFair is amazing.

 

[Demna]

Was searching for the MU thread for a while, decided to ask here instead. I googled the MU thread and it appeared. Thanks for the info

 

[-Se7en-]

It's all good.Check ZeRo's stuff.

 

[ぱみゅ]

A small tip:
When you have a banana, try to make sure to let them onstage behind you; Diddy can't use them nor spawn more until the one you threw disappear, and HAS to approach to grab it, or stall until he can spawn more.
It adds a lot of pressure.

 

[Tesh]

Just wanted to chime in on the wolf discussion with one thing that seemed wrong to me.

When you tech wolf's downthrow, I'm pretty sure this puts you at a massive frame disadvantage right next to him. Not really worth it just to avoid being pushed off stage when you have the best recovery in the game.



Throw bananas up to keep them out of play, they won't disappear (and thus cant respawn) until they hit the ground. If you can juggle both of his bananas, he will need to take them back by force.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Don't tech in place.

 

[Tesh]

If you tech behind him, you are still close enough to get smashed or grabbed on reaction. Don't remember how far your forward roll goes, but assuming you were worried about being sent off stage, you probably don't have anywhere to go and Fsmash would probably cover it anyway.

Wolf beats you at super close range (many characters do eh?), so accept that downthrow as a gift and stay away from his grab next time.

 

[-Se7en-]

It depends I use it as a mixup.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

It also depends on how good the wolf is at tech chasing

 

[-Se7en-]

It also depends on how good the wolf is at tech chasing

You shouldn't really attempt that if you know the wolf is good at tech chasing,you could DI towards a further area of the stage and tech roll towards the edge.Worst case scenario you will eat a blaster.

 

[earla]

any new mk technology within last year

 

[ぱみゅ]

Do not move, at all.

 

[Nemy]

Standing still is the new metagame.

 

[Reth92]

advices on the kirby matchup? I don't have any problems but I always eat that Fsmash ><

 

[ぱみゅ]

If both are on the ground, learn its spacing, keep poking Kirby, don't let him breathe and give him time to throw it. Alternatively, you can try to learn the animation and everytime you think it might come out, look for it and simply shield it. I wouldn't recommend the latter because I still get hit by Lucas' Fsmash like every single time, but it's doable.

If he catches you when landing, you're doing something wrong. You have like a million jumps and a glide, use them and mix up your landings.

 

[Tesh]

Tech chasing is when your opponent needs to read or guess for the follow up. Like Snake's downthrow, he has -1 DISadvantage after he does it, nothing is guaranteed for him so he has to figure out what you will do (assuming your roll isnt horribly slow/short).

Wolf has a frame advantage when you tech his dthrow. Its not a tech chase, its just you getting hit every time you do it.

 

[NH Cody]

how do you do the up-B cancel on final destination's ledges

 

[Demna]

Press Up-B directly under the ledges.

 

[Curlz]

Would anyone here be able to give some tips on the Wario Matchup? I read through both MU threads and both frame data threads but I feel like there's only so much you can learn from that. I'm trying to get on my Apex grind, but there's a Wario here that's giving me some trouble.

 

[NH Cody]

space wario with fair, punish some of his aerial movements with uair. and dtilt works well too
wario has no approach.

 

[Hoenn]

In the MK ditto, what is the answer to stutter step F-smash?
I can't consistently punish it

 

[ぱみゅ]

Wario DOES have an approach, it's in his Fair pokes or Dairs.
You need to be careful, Wario is surprisingly good at shifting between air and ground, and his grabs are really powerful.
Be careful of when he jumps, don't fall for his Wheel frame-traps and try to keep them away from you.
Oh, and Space well. It's is REALLY important, whiffed anything gets punished, and his attacks deal TONS of damage and he kills early.


Fsmash has less range than Dsmash, Dtilt and Ftilt.
If your opponent just throws it randomly, it can go with no consequences whatsoever.
If he hits you after you whiffed something, then you'll need to work on both your spacing and your mix-up game, so you either hit him before he throws the attack or you have enough time to shield or move away.
If he spams it and or you can read it, then just poke with tilts.

 

[NH Cody]

no. fair and dair lose to our fair

space wario with fair

back up and fair. easy punish

 

[ぱみゅ]

Our Fair has plenty of lag. Wario can Double Jump over our Fair and Dair us, or short-hop airdodge through it and grab/Fsmash/other stuff.

 

[NH Cody]

no but risk reward favors mk completely. you don't even have to make elaborate reads. you can literally react to wario full hopping and coming down with a down air by using retreating sh fair. he can't "get in" with airdodge 9/10 times

 

[BlueXenon]

In the MK ditto, what is the answer to stutter step F-smash?
I can't consistently punish it

I like to quickly tornado above the mk and land behind him. As a good mix up, you can dash attack (it's very quick and unexpected, but only use this once) or land with a fair if you think your opponent is expecting you to air dodge. If the mk is spamming nothing but fsmash when you're on the ledge, just tornado over him and try to land laglessly. Do not use get up attack, get up, or roll in this situation, unless the fsmash is spaced poorly. Try not to attempt glide attacking the fsmash because the risk/reward isn't worth it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Risk/reward..... okay.

In the MK:Wario MU R/R is pretty evened unless you're talking about the very top level play.
Unless the Meta Knight is extremely precise, Wario takes advantage of small mistakes to do huge damage and kill early. MK gets few reward from keeping Wario away, so the Risk/reward is kind of evened up unless the MK plays almost flawlessly.
If you are learning hte Matchup, you will have TONS of trouble, but in he end you will be able to succeed.


As for the Glide Attack vs F-Smash, the spacing is very precise, and is not about Risk/reward, is more about execution. If you don't know the precise spacing, or are not confident that you'll win the trade, is not worth it. If you have a Nairo/Kakera/M2K kind of precision, then you can go for it.

 

[NH Cody]

yes, exactly, always assuming high level play. not noob mks who approach with dsmash 20 times or jump around aimlessly and die to wario uair

 

[WMSC_Dot]

What's the safest way to play against someone like Snake, what are the requirements to racking more damage on him than he can get on me. How can I just give Snake absolute hell?

 

[NH Cody]

well, nado is good, but you have to use it at smart times. don't use it when he can blow you up with a grenade. there are multiple ways to play the snake MU, but what I do is aircamp and wait for the snake player to whiff an attack or mess up in some way. or I use mindgames somehow and then make reads

 

[WMSC_Dot]

That was answered quickly, now onto a different topic. When I have the opponent on the ledge I don't know what I should do.

 

[Master Raven]

What's the safest way to play against someone like Snake, what are the requirements to racking more damage on him than he can get on me. How can I just give Snake absolute hell?

I know it's been answered but I wanna add to this considering I play MVD a lot (and occasionally other Snakes like Redhalberd, Mampam, and Yoss). The safest way to punish Snake depends on his playstyle. Know what the best options are for whatever he likes to do a lot. Best way to rack up damage is to keep him in the air/offstage. That's his ultimate weakness so you always want to keep him juggled for as long as possible. Use the correct aerials accordingly depending on what he's doing or what you think he's going to do in advance, because all your aerials are great in the matchup, but he can punish you if you don't use them at the right time. The most important thing in this MU is to not be afraid of approaching Snake even though he can rack up a ton of damage faster than you can, because he won't be able to do it anyway as long as you know what you're doing and keep him juggled and edge guarded. He has to constantly come back from the damage he takes getting comboed. That's how you give Snake hell.

That was answered quickly, now onto a different topic. When I have the opponent on the ledge I don't know what I should do.

Pressure him with a variety of attacks. What those attacks are depends on the MU. A good thing to do is to tornado them if you have the opportunity at the ledge and make them shield it, but tornado the front end of the shield so that they're pushed back and eventually fall into the edge.

 

[WMSC_Dot]

Is it awkward to anyone (or was it) when they are in the air as MK. I'm trying to become a better player but at times it feels awkward to do an aerial in my position. I have a problem with just throwing attacks out.

 

[BlueXenon]

Is it awkward to anyone (or was it) when they are in the air as MK. I'm trying to become a better player but at times it feels awkward to do an aerial in my position. I have a problem with just throwing attacks out.

When your opponent is grounded, and you're in the air, try your best to stay horizontal to your opponent and find a safe way to land. If you feel uncomfortable or scared, you can always go to the ledge for safety and slowly try to bring the game back to neutral or into your advantage.

When your opponent is in the air, you should try to stay either directly below him/her, or horizontal, depending on the mu. This is where mk is very strong thanks to his frame traps, uair, shuttle loop, and tornado. If you're playing Marth or another mk, staying below them when they're in the air is good. When you're playing Kirby or Peach, it might be better to be horizontal to them.

You should read these guides made by CT ZeRo if you're a new player, they helped me improve a lot and understand the game at high level:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1qgyz6/how_to_counter_meta_knights_recovery_options_tips/
http://clashtournaments.com/?p=390
http://clashtournaments.com/?p=585