Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Demna]

You can hit through the Tornado's startup because it doesn't have as much priority as it does later on. How many frames will it take nado to reach it's full priority potential?

 

[Demna]

I'm having troubles edgeguading a Diddy who recovers quite well. Any tips?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Space better against his Monkey Flip.
After you've nailed that, you'll exert pressure and you'll force your opponent to use their barrels.
Learn the Barrel travel patterns so you can grab the ledge at the right moment so they:
a)Recover in a telegraphed pattern that you can intercept with either good spacing or abusing your invincibility.
b)Recover in a straight line up
b1) Use invincibility to Weak Hit Nair and snap him out of it.
b2) YOLO Fair/Nair to get the same result. Trade hits, you'll get a barrel to the face at worst, and a Stock on our favor at best
c) They recover too high and you can punish them
d)They get effectively Edgehogged.

Optionally you could just stand next to the ledge, throw tilts/Fsmash to edgeguard him (careful with Bananas!)

 

[Demna]

Space better against his Monkey Flip.

Ultimately, we'd want to hit Diddy out of his flip before he can attack, correct? Or should we wait for his attack to come out and then attack?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Be at enough distance so you can react to it and snap him out of it without being hugged.

 

[AlanHaTe]

just wondering, does anybody here actually think MK is an easy character to play at high level?

I think hell no, it's pretty hard to actually do things right/perfect like say ZeRo, M2K, Nairo or any top MK main... but that's just me...

and the real question, is it "normal" that when I Uair string people, I can only get like 2 or 3 Uairs at the best, because of SDI, but when I try to SDI out of the same exact Uair strings made by another MK, it just doesn't work, like is SDI was a lie, I stay in the same spot only recieving tons of damage that shouldn't even happen... What's the best way to SDI things like MK's Uairs, Fox's Utilts and stuff like that?! help plox ;(

 

[ぱみゅ]

IMO he can be quite difficult to master at higher levels because as his attacks are faster you get forced to think faster. Your actions need to be precise, so you'd need to think of your next action before you even perform the first one.
On top of that, your opponent WILL know the Matchup, so if you mess up they will know and you'll get punished. That's some pressure alright....

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM#t=55s
SDI'ing Uairs *is* possible.
But SDI can be pretty hard sometimes, it has a very small window where you can do it, and you'd need to hit the sticks like a maniac.
Mr. Doom himself said that he SDI's when he *knows* the hit is coming.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Yeah, I watched that, but, the only way I could do anything like that was with timers on lol

so, where should I be SDI'ng this kind of attacks? down was a bad idea, I don't recommend it at all, that's when the most damage happens

 

[Demna]

SDI to the side and keep DI upwards because MK will probably follow it up with either Shuttle loop or F-air, try to airdodge the follow ups if possible.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Be sure to rewatch these slowly and try to apply them on your game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecrl_hzvPlM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVWkbSMTvI

 

[SpiderMad]

Has anyone made a playlist of the best Nairo videos? Or a compilation video of all his short cool combos?

 

[SuperCosmicSmash]

I need a deep explanation on controlling a matchup. Start basic please, as I don't understand how to do many things the right way quite yet.

 

[Demna]

I need a deep explanation on controlling a matchup.

Can you be more detailed please? By saying "controlling", do you mean dominating or having a significant lead? If so, this question doesn't have a direct answer, you'll be able to do that with knowledge, experience, and outsmarting your opponent.

 

[Rizen]

I need a deep explanation on controlling a matchup. Start basic please, as I don't understand how to do many things the right way quite yet.

The MKs who did best against me had the best flow of one move to another, best landing canceling, buffering etc. MK can have very little vulnerability and attack super fast if the player really uses him well. That's my advice for a 1st step.
Also don't be afraid to exploit the opponent's weaknesses. If their character has trouble dealing with Uair (Bowser comes to mind) then juggle them a lot, if the opponent doesn't have a good answer to tornado, spam that. Smash is not about fighting fair, especially if you're using MK, lol.

 

[SuperCosmicSmash]

Dominating the opponent I suppose.

 

[Demna]

Dominating the opponent I suppose.

Spacing correctly - tornado at correct moments - juggling - edguarding - landing the killing blow as early as possible - reading your opponent.

There are other requirements as well, in addition to the ones I mentioned, to dominate an opponent. Try practicing against good people and watch videos of top Metaknights (Mew2king, Nairo, ZeRo, Anti, Tyrant, Otori, Ally, Kakera, Rain, etc) to learn what options are viable at each point. Learn from both their success and failures, good luck.

 

[SpiderMad]

Use Tornado or jump and do an aerial and keep tapping C-stick forward, you'll move slightly, and I wonder if you could gain distance on tornado by pressing c-stick right a bunch as well as holding right on the control stick. So far it either seems like won't, meaning it controls your drift rather than adds extra 3rd party movement

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Is there some specific input tecnique, regarding U-Air combos? Ever since I removed Tap Jump, I'm having difficulty throwing them out the fastest way possible because I jump with X and U-Air with C-Stick up, which is slower, because I once my thumb only.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Try to set one of the shoulder buttons to Jump.
Or hold up on the Analog stick (sliding it left or right accordingly) and press A and X (my Jump button) when needed.

I do both on ocassion.

 

[sGale]

So I'm having trouble in the Fox match-up. The match starts and we duke it out, but after some trades and clashes we're both at high/mid percentages. I often get the first KO, but after that I can't keep my stock. How do I avoid all this damage? I can't set up a efficient wall against him.

 

[Demna]

So I'm having trouble in the Fox match-up. The match starts and we duke it out, but after some trades and clashes we're both at high/mid percentages. I often get the first KO, but after that I can't keep my stock. How do I avoid all this damage? I can't set up a efficient wall against him.

Try spacing SH Fairs and Dair camp, but you don't want to be far away from Fox because he'll start wracking up damage with his lasers. Remember that you're at kill percentage at around 90%-95%, don't play overly aggressive or you'll eat an upsmash that will end your stock, bait his upsmash and then punish it with tornado or GSL OoS. You ultimately want Fox in the air to juggle him and you definitely want to gimp him, predict his SideB and punish with Nair (if you can't get the timing down fast enough, tornado works). Generally spacing against Fox and edgeguarding him works for me, good luck.

 

[sGale]

Try spacing SH Fairs and Dair camp, but you don't want to be far away from Fox because he'll start wracking up damage with his lasers. Remember that you're at kill percentage at around 90%-95%, don't play overly aggressive or you'll eat an upsmash that will end your stock, bait his upsmash and then punish it with tornado or GSL OoS. You ultimately want Fox in the air to juggle him and you definitely want to gimp him, predict his SideB and punish with Nair (if you can't get the timing down fast enough, tornado works). Generally spacing against Fox and edgeguarding him works for me, good luck.

Well, Fair spacing isn't really working for me. He's too fast and dashes in on me, so I generally try to stuff his approaches with Fair, but I somehow still get hit. I'll try to get some videos up soon, so the problem can be indentified easier.

 

[Demna]

Well, Fair spacing isn't really working for me. He's too fast and dashes in on me, so I generally try to stuff his approaches with Fair, but I somehow still get hit. I'll try to get some videos up soon, so the problem can be indentified easier.

If he's that aggro, punish his approaches with tornado or forward/down tilt. But yeah, get the video up so we can critique it and help you out.

 

[sGale]

If he's that aggro, punish his approaches with tornado or forward/down tilt. But yeah, get the video up so we can critique it and help you out.

http://smashboards.com/threads/vict...-critique-thread.225117/page-37#post-16703171

 

[-Se7en-]

IMO he can be quite difficult to master at higher levels

I have reached that point, the bad thing is I like to take it very slow.

 

[Att1cus]

In doubles, as MK, who is your preferred partner character?

Also what is the % chance to trip on dtilt?

Thanks!

 

[ぱみゅ]

I like teaming with very mobile characters, or someone good at scoring kills (Wario is both).

 

[GOofyGV]

In doubles, as MK, who is your preferred partner character?

Also what is the % chance to trip on dtilt?

Thanks!

another Meta Knight (thats actually not banned in my country because there really isn't any team that uses it)
other that that I like characters with good stage control like Snake or diddy kong.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

How do you perform the drill rush cancel, and at what point do you need to down air when platform cancelling with meta knight?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Drill Rush Cancel is done by ending it right at an edge of any platform.
And there is no need to platform cancel with Dairs using MK, use your shield, or just a normal Down Platform Cancel.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

I'm having trouble determining when I perform the platform cancel. In relation to MKs body, at what point should I platform cancel.

 

[sGale]

Drill Rush Cancel is done by ending it right at an edge of any platform.
And there is no need to platform cancel with Dairs using MK, use your shield, or just a normal Down Platform Cancel.

Not true if you want to do a dash directly out of PC. Otherwise you're correct =)

 

[Yams Everywhere]

What are some technical things I can work on with meta knight to improve my game?

 

[CURRY]

I don't have people that I know of in my area so I don't really know anything about how anything works :'C

CT_Zero, in his neutral game/neutral position (Where he's out of range of everything) just KEEPS SPAMMING UAIR.
Not just on the ledge and trying to get onstage, but like, if a Marth is 2/3 stage lengths away, then he will just SPAM UAIR.

Why??? (Can it even hit grounded characters while being a safe distance away?) Like, I just feel like there are better options.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

He's probably trying to bait the other player into doing something risky. Since the upair has so little ending lag, he can react out of it quickly.

 

[TheGrunyan]

What are some technical things I can work on with meta knight to improve my game?

Drill rush cancels, platform cancels, the spacing for offstage shuttle loops to autosnap the ledge, up air strings and their follow ups, like the roofie-o, auto cancelled back air into turn around grab, the down tilt lock, glide tossing, and just generally executing the moves you intend to are all things that will help your game.

 

[The Maven]

Try spacing SH Fairs [against Fox]

Ew, no! If Fox dash-shields your SH fair you get grabbed or even usmashed OoS! In fact, Fox's dash is fast enough for him to read your SH and interrupt it with a usmash!

but you don't want to be far away from Fox because he'll start wracking up damage with his lasers.

Fox's ideal spacing is at the tip of your dash attack range, because he can safely react to your decisions with a shield, dash shield, or SHTL. Your ideal spacing is at dtilt-on-shield range; this chokes Fox's options (no lasers! no dash shield!) really hard.

In fact, if you don't rush Fox down really hard, Fox is winning the matchup!

Remember that you're at kill percentage at around 90%-95%

With bad or no DI Fox can kill you in the mid-high 80s! But if his usmash is staled you can last to about 110%-ish.

You ultimately want Fox in the air to juggle him

Fox is really hard to juggle because of his great fall speed (which makes his air dodge really safe) and shine's timing mixup. Stay really far below him and you might be able to punish his landing.

you definitely want to gimp him, predict his SideB and punish with Nair (if you can't get the timing down fast enough, tornado works).

Fox is actually pretty hard to gimp. You can get a good string if you send him offstage, but Fox's recovery is actually really versatile (all the side-B cancels and up-B angles, plus rising fair, plus shine stalling) so killing him offstage is not always an option.

Yeah, nair and 'Nado counter Fox's side-B.

If you can grab him in such a way that he's dangling off stage (dash grabs near the ledge will force this), a pummel-release thing will zone Fox really hard: if the Fox can midair jump -> air dodge to the stage he'll get back on (though not before being 'Nadoed); otherwise you can follow him offstage and get some free damage or even a stock.

That being said, I'm pretty sure a Fox below the stage without a jump is dead so kill him when that happens.

You can also watch TKD's (a Fox/MK double-main) analysis of the MK-Fox matchup, which you can find here:

I recorded a video analysis of a tournament SSBB match between nakat's fox and zero's mk. It should be helpful. I don't think I talked about mindgames much or at all (only stuff like staples, and counters and pointed out big mistakes) so it should probably be understandable to any mid+ level player who knows what a buffer is.

[go to post for link; I need 10 posts before I can post links ]

 

[Demna]

Ew, no! If Fox dash-shields your SH fair you get grabbed or even usmashed OoS! In fact, Fox's dash is fast enough for him to read your SH and interrupt it with a usmash!

That is why I stated to space Fair, a well spaced Fair can't be freely punished.

Fox's ideal spacing is at the tip of your dash attack range, because he can safely react to your decisions with a shield, dash shield, or SHTL. Your ideal spacing is at dtilt-on-shield range; this chokes Fox's options (no lasers! no dash shield!) really hard.

Completely agree that you should be at Dtilt range

In fact, if you don't rush Fox down really hard, Fox is winning the matchup!

You want to rush down fox but once you're at kill percentage you should be cautious, Fox might catch you with an upsmash after you misplace an attack due to rushing.

Fox is really hard to juggle because of his great fall speed (which makes his air dodge really safe) and shine's timing mixup. Stay really far below him and you might be able to punish his landing.

If the Fox you're facing is prone to do AD> FF, you can read it and punish with Nado/Nair when you're below him. If Fox decides to shine stall in the air and you predict it, take advantage of it and juggle him for as much as you can, until you bait an airdodge and punish him accordingly.

is actually pretty hard to gimp. You can get a good string if you send him offstage, but Fox's recovery is actually really versatile (all the side-B cancels and up-B angles, plus rising fair, plus shine stalling) so killing him offstage is not always an option

Gimping Fox is definitely no walk in the park, but MK generally has great option edgeguarding Fox. Shuttle loop is a very good tool against Fox's UpB, it can cover most angles if spaced correctly. Rising Fair can be punished by invincible ledged Nair/Dair, and so on.

Generally, I agree with the information you provided.

 

[Hoenn]

What is the best level CPU to practice juggling on? Which one air dodges the most and most randomly?

 

[The Maven]

What is the best level CPU to practice juggling on? Which one air dodges the most and most randomly?

2010 M2K would practice against level 1 Snakes, and shadow-box them (that is, think "what would a human do here", and cover that option, even if the computer won't pick that option).