Aenglaan
Smash Apprentice
Although demo 2.6 just came out (as of the typing of this message), I thought that there should be a thread for discussing Meta Knight. What do you like and not like about Meta? What do you think about his play style, etc?
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Meta Knight 2.6 impressions
- Thread starter Aenglaan
- Start date
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Uh... How do I recovery vertically? His jump height is absolutely pathetic and Shuttle loop will not grab the ledge (You will always glide which is low altitude, extremely unsafe since you always go above ledge if you wanna grab on). Been trying to do ledgedrop gimps only to feel like Donkey KongT_T He falls way faster than I had hoped.. Can't even jump.
Tornado doesn't go very high, nor does Dimensional cape... Will have to keep working on his offstage game.
Tornado doesn't go very high, nor does Dimensional cape... Will have to keep working on his offstage game.
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
Face away from the ledge and use shuttle loop. He should land on the stage, and probably slip back off again immediately, at which point you have all your jumps back.
4 jumps and dim. cape should be enough, though :/
4 jumps and dim. cape should be enough, though :/
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
Is anyone noticing anything weird with his Down Throw?
Aenglaan
Smash Apprentice
If by weird you mean the duration is noticeably slower, yes. Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, though.
Also, I feel that his side-B could be improved. It feels useless and also seems to hurt Meta Knight, given that it could be a much better approach, if handled properly.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
He keeps hitting after the enemy gets knocked away, giving less time to chase after them. Not like you need to because it sends them to the floor and they can always tech before you get close. Sorta useless throw now from what I've seen... Though may have tech chasing potential if it wasn't glitched.
Vickyboi
Smash Cadet
For me the knockback comes on the last stomp.
Is it different for you?
Is it different for you?
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
it should be multi kicks then throws you after the stomp. if its anything different, download again.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Guess I'll do that. He starts multistomping and then the enemy flies out and MK gives one last stomp and then slams on the floor, hitting nothing. Misses 2~ hits here and sucks.
if all else fails, mash neutralb that gives surprisingly good vertical coverage
usmash seems safe as hell, which is important to me because utilt certainly isn't going to be launching people up all that much
usmash seems safe as hell, which is important to me because utilt certainly isn't going to be launching people up all that much
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
Could it be a Riivolution bug, I just redownloaded and the same thing happened.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
Alright guys, it seems the Riivolution download is bugged, Meta Knight's animation file isn't loading properly. We'll have it fixed within 24 hours. In the mean time, try using Gecko OS.
Edit: I have Wifi riivolution file. Darnit I was afraid, Riivolution usually gets more bugs like that Bowser freeze crap lol. Does anyone know exactly how bugged MK is in my version because I'd hate for it to be a **** ton more than Dthrow n stuff.
Yeah MK Dthrow bugged for me. I have the wifi version so hopefully that's not the issue, but the person is released as he is still tapping his toes and he awkwardly slams the ground wayyy after the person is released. I tested this with different character weights too and it was still bugged.
Dair, if angled, will not let me cancel it at all from what I notice, and it will plummet me to my death. The normal Dair has a cancel window that's better/earlier than I was imagining. I'm guessing they didn't want a cancel window on angled Dair for recovery purposes but seriously if there's nothing bugged with that then it's really poor design imo. I see the edge cancel stuff but it's almost like why bother the move does diddly squat for damage. I'm slightly worried that SDI/teching/etc lame combination will ruin it's usefullness onstage. The regular Dair offstage looks possibly sick, but like that's it. I'd almost rather have only that just for consistency purposes so I don't have to constantly watch my momentum/direction when doing it.
Shuttle loop is no longer a horizontal killer, but it's now useful as a vertical finisher in the air with non sucky spacing/timing. Side B you can't angle as severely up or down compared to Brawl but people may find it useful for recovery.
If you do Down B from the air, you lose any jumps and the ability to use B moves until you land and the ability to airdodge (the animation of MK coming out of the cape is a bit wonky. I'm guessing you guys put him into some special state, and it doesn't transition that smoothly from the cape ending to that state). You can still attack with aerials. From the ground, you can angle it up to the air and retain all of your jumps but still cannot use B moves. You can do instant Down B attack with the C stick, otherwise hold B to do the attack. The longer you wait before attacking with it, the stronger it hits (full Down B hits like a mini truck, almost kills DK at the edge of FD with no DI at ~55%. To put that into perspective, his Fully Charged Fsmash kills at the edge around 50 on DK). Down B is very leniant on grabbing the edge: you can do a Down B attack from onstage, moving directly over the edge, facing backwards, have the sword come out, and you still grab the edge afterwards.
Tornado is not very friendly for grabbing the edge. If you end Tornado near the edge, you need to be quite a distance above the edge before you can actually grab it. MK falls for awhile before going into a state that lets him grab the edge. Be aware of this if you are trying to recover with it and can't move onstage with it. You also will tend to have to rise with Tornado onstage to hit people effectively with it, because they start to float upwards naturally from what I'm seeing. If you just press B one time on the ground and move left-right, people will fly up out of it over time.
TL:DR
MK is a laggier version of his Brawl self who's sorta tooled towards Melee now? I say sorta because there are some design choices that probably could have been better, and because he's an ugly mixture of different ideas. His only decent throw for combos or followups is Dthrow (even with my bugged version I saw on the stream how solid it was and how fast he's actually supposed to move out of it). Vertical chains for MK would be interesting except that he has no throw setup for them, and Utilt sucks. A low Uair that hopefully they don't DI well, or an Usmash, are like the only ways to try something cool along those lines. Horizontally he doesn't really combo you he smacks you away just a bit further than he would like at mid %. He has some well designed moves like Bair, but choices like Nair feel like they are reduntant at times when you consider how much better Bair Fair and Uair cover those areas respective to his body. Will be interesting to see how CC and SDI affect multi hit moves like Fair, Tornado, Dair, etc.
If I had to Grade MK overall as a character, I'd say B- or C+. They kept a lot of his feel and moveset similar to Brawl, but in regards to making a character that totally flows Melee style he has some lacking areas. He seems like a very fair character, didn't toy around with trying to DACUS or anything super in depth although it seems like maybe he can boost grab? He's gonna be annoying perhaps, but dominant I'd doubt it. There's plenty of room open with diverse moves like his Down B, a lot of play area with that move, and people may perfect certain edge cancels with shuttle loop/things to take away the extra lag he was saddled with...
Yeah MK Dthrow bugged for me. I have the wifi version so hopefully that's not the issue, but the person is released as he is still tapping his toes and he awkwardly slams the ground wayyy after the person is released. I tested this with different character weights too and it was still bugged.
Dair, if angled, will not let me cancel it at all from what I notice, and it will plummet me to my death. The normal Dair has a cancel window that's better/earlier than I was imagining. I'm guessing they didn't want a cancel window on angled Dair for recovery purposes but seriously if there's nothing bugged with that then it's really poor design imo. I see the edge cancel stuff but it's almost like why bother the move does diddly squat for damage. I'm slightly worried that SDI/teching/etc lame combination will ruin it's usefullness onstage. The regular Dair offstage looks possibly sick, but like that's it. I'd almost rather have only that just for consistency purposes so I don't have to constantly watch my momentum/direction when doing it.
Shuttle loop is no longer a horizontal killer, but it's now useful as a vertical finisher in the air with non sucky spacing/timing. Side B you can't angle as severely up or down compared to Brawl but people may find it useful for recovery.
If you do Down B from the air, you lose any jumps and the ability to use B moves until you land and the ability to airdodge (the animation of MK coming out of the cape is a bit wonky. I'm guessing you guys put him into some special state, and it doesn't transition that smoothly from the cape ending to that state). You can still attack with aerials. From the ground, you can angle it up to the air and retain all of your jumps but still cannot use B moves. You can do instant Down B attack with the C stick, otherwise hold B to do the attack. The longer you wait before attacking with it, the stronger it hits (full Down B hits like a mini truck, almost kills DK at the edge of FD with no DI at ~55%. To put that into perspective, his Fully Charged Fsmash kills at the edge around 50 on DK). Down B is very leniant on grabbing the edge: you can do a Down B attack from onstage, moving directly over the edge, facing backwards, have the sword come out, and you still grab the edge afterwards.
Tornado is not very friendly for grabbing the edge. If you end Tornado near the edge, you need to be quite a distance above the edge before you can actually grab it. MK falls for awhile before going into a state that lets him grab the edge. Be aware of this if you are trying to recover with it and can't move onstage with it. You also will tend to have to rise with Tornado onstage to hit people effectively with it, because they start to float upwards naturally from what I'm seeing. If you just press B one time on the ground and move left-right, people will fly up out of it over time.
TL:DR
MK is a laggier version of his Brawl self who's sorta tooled towards Melee now? I say sorta because there are some design choices that probably could have been better, and because he's an ugly mixture of different ideas. His only decent throw for combos or followups is Dthrow (even with my bugged version I saw on the stream how solid it was and how fast he's actually supposed to move out of it). Vertical chains for MK would be interesting except that he has no throw setup for them, and Utilt sucks. A low Uair that hopefully they don't DI well, or an Usmash, are like the only ways to try something cool along those lines. Horizontally he doesn't really combo you he smacks you away just a bit further than he would like at mid %. He has some well designed moves like Bair, but choices like Nair feel like they are reduntant at times when you consider how much better Bair Fair and Uair cover those areas respective to his body. Will be interesting to see how CC and SDI affect multi hit moves like Fair, Tornado, Dair, etc.
If I had to Grade MK overall as a character, I'd say B- or C+. They kept a lot of his feel and moveset similar to Brawl, but in regards to making a character that totally flows Melee style he has some lacking areas. He seems like a very fair character, didn't toy around with trying to DACUS or anything super in depth although it seems like maybe he can boost grab? He's gonna be annoying perhaps, but dominant I'd doubt it. There's plenty of room open with diverse moves like his Down B, a lot of play area with that move, and people may perfect certain edge cancels with shuttle loop/things to take away the extra lag he was saddled with...
MK is really, REALLY fun for me. dunno what people are talking about with him feeling clunky, he's rly smooth to me
SD homebrew master race, get wrecked riivolution-havers
SD homebrew master race, get wrecked riivolution-havers
GeZ
Smash Lord
Metaknight feels really good to me. I don't know why you guys say he's got no vertical combo game. At mid percents you can Uthrow to Uair chains for days. I do think he feels a bit strange but that's because I never touched him in brawl. Ever. Seriously, this is my first time trying him. But from what I've played around with he seems to be fast, aggressive, and have a good mix of smash kill and gimp options. Only moves I see no use for thus far is his Side B (seems to leave him open to attack at the end) and Utilt (why use it over Usmash ever?).
Uthrow is unreliable for doing a vertical launch because people can DI the throw, and because MK is already committed to the air (maybe my Uthrow is bugged, but it seems very similar to Brawl's). You can't Uthrow someone, dash on the ground or running jump Uair, so DI away cuts down on your chances I would assume.
Shuttle loop SCREAMS for getting some cool 70% kill up high after an Uair or two, but there's just no real way to get to that position because MK either smacks you out at an arc horizontally, or the vertical moves are gonna be hard to land. Utilt ain't god damn happening LOL, it's Usmash/Uair or go home.
Shuttle loop SCREAMS for getting some cool 70% kill up high after an Uair or two, but there's just no real way to get to that position because MK either smacks you out at an arc horizontally, or the vertical moves are gonna be hard to land. Utilt ain't god damn happening LOL, it's Usmash/Uair or go home.
yoloswag420blazeit
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2013
- Messages
- 13
Yeah MK doesn't feel amazing but his "melee fundamentals" are there...dash dance + SHFFL'd nairs has been solid so far against my friends
MrButterFuzz
Smash Rookie
If you play claw, downB then immediately cstick any direction, it skips the whole DIMENSIONAL CAPE animation. You're a seating duck if you miss it though. I also think it works after someone upthrows you (on low %) maybe, don't hold me to that though. Seems OP if you ask me.
I also tried to do meta knight old school infinite dimensional cape. I ended up floating in the air, unable to move. lol
Meta cray cray yo.
I also tried to do meta knight old school infinite dimensional cape. I ended up floating in the air, unable to move. lol
Meta cray cray yo.
I think I might be maining him by the end of this, he's too much fun
I think it's the SFX, it's all so satisfying to play
I think it's the SFX, it's all so satisfying to play
Vashimus
Smash Master
Can't play this for another week, but I gotta know. Is his recovery garbage?
Burnsy
Smash Lord
I dont understand why people are having trouble sweet spotting with up-b, unless they are getting edgeguarded. Technically it works fine for me.
I see a lot of people complaining about his recovery, but I think it remains to be seen how bad it's actually going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't need an awesome recovery to be good. I can see him being pretty obnoxious if he was the same as he was now but had both great horizontal and vertical recovery.
I see a lot of people complaining about his recovery, but I think it remains to be seen how bad it's actually going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't need an awesome recovery to be good. I can see him being pretty obnoxious if he was the same as he was now but had both great horizontal and vertical recovery.
GeZ
Smash Lord
From what i've played around with you face away from the stage when you're below it and do his up b. He'll loop up onto it and then slide off giving you your jumps back. Though it doesn't deal with his not being able to sweet spot the ledge so I don't know. It's possible he's just crazy gimp fodder to make up for his crazy aerial game.
MegaGuy
Smash Apprentice
Loving the new MK. Gonna have to get used to not being able to do his dumb ledge/plank stuff, but otherwise he's super fun.
The thing that stands out to me is just how quick fully-charged Down-B is. It's so great for catching your opponent sleeping, and it kills at like mid 90s on middle-weights. Definitely need to get in the lab and find set-ups for it.
As for side-b, I find it's useful for chasing down opponents when they're out of range. It's a great combo starter, and edge-cancelling it is simply amazing; allowing for instant follow-ups.
The thing that stands out to me is just how quick fully-charged Down-B is. It's so great for catching your opponent sleeping, and it kills at like mid 90s on middle-weights. Definitely need to get in the lab and find set-ups for it.
As for side-b, I find it's useful for chasing down opponents when they're out of range. It's a great combo starter, and edge-cancelling it is simply amazing; allowing for instant follow-ups.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Yeah uh... So please post here when the riivolution animation thing is fixed. I COULD use the other methods but 24hrs isn't that long.. Can wait.
Adding to what DMG said... His Aerials are all much laggier, combined with his lack of floatiness and crap recovery is why his offstage seems so weak! Jump off the ledge and try to nair twice then come back... Not easy. It's like when you play Falco and do a Dair offstage .. You just mash JUMP JUMP JUMP But he just plummets down because of very slow IASA frames on the move. I think all of the aerials got this treatment compared to Brawl... I'll check. But it's still uncool that he actually feels SLOWER! Maybe he was just more imba than I thought in Brawl. Some of his moves do retain good properties like Dsmash and Upsmash. I'll be playing a lot more when he's fixed but so far he did look to have some flaws that won't let him be a top character, mainly how you can't recover from below without being punished, reverse shuttle loop is cool and all but it has the problem like Cfalcon upB: You'll die.
Adding to what DMG said... His Aerials are all much laggier, combined with his lack of floatiness and crap recovery is why his offstage seems so weak! Jump off the ledge and try to nair twice then come back... Not easy. It's like when you play Falco and do a Dair offstage .. You just mash JUMP JUMP JUMP But he just plummets down because of very slow IASA frames on the move. I think all of the aerials got this treatment compared to Brawl... I'll check. But it's still uncool that he actually feels SLOWER! Maybe he was just more imba than I thought in Brawl. Some of his moves do retain good properties like Dsmash and Upsmash. I'll be playing a lot more when he's fixed but so far he did look to have some flaws that won't let him be a top character, mainly how you can't recover from below without being punished, reverse shuttle loop is cool and all but it has the problem like Cfalcon upB: You'll die.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
It should be fixed now. Re-download if you're still having issues.
NameChange
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 217
Side B is awesome for ledgehogging.
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
granted i'm not really a MK player but this is what i would do to his moves.
i like his normal moves those are pretty much perfect. bair and fsmash have a really satisfying hit sound.
His specials could use some tweak ups. first down b. The power in the slash is perfect my issue is with the teleport with no slash. I like the idea behind down b but taking away all his jumps and air dodge for using it in the air just makes it almost unusable for combos since it doesn't go so high and the number of teleport locations is limited. He should keep his jumps and air dodge but loose his ability to use other special moves.
up b just doesn't flow the way I'd want it too. the little bit of end lag at the end just disrupts it. if you cancel the the glide with B you should get the lagless landing. The lag after the attack should stay.
side b just needs its angles back.
i like his normal moves those are pretty much perfect. bair and fsmash have a really satisfying hit sound.
His specials could use some tweak ups. first down b. The power in the slash is perfect my issue is with the teleport with no slash. I like the idea behind down b but taking away all his jumps and air dodge for using it in the air just makes it almost unusable for combos since it doesn't go so high and the number of teleport locations is limited. He should keep his jumps and air dodge but loose his ability to use other special moves.
up b just doesn't flow the way I'd want it too. the little bit of end lag at the end just disrupts it. if you cancel the the glide with B you should get the lagless landing. The lag after the attack should stay.
side b just needs its angles back.
Ok so it seems there was more than just Dthrow bugged. I downloaded the fixed Riivolution version a second ago. I notice a difference with Dair, Side B, Uthrow, and maybe SL.
So let's talk about Dair. The non angled one now isn't letting me jump out of it before dying really. If I use most of my jumps onstage, I can live, but then I'm not getting back from being in the magnifying glass because I have 1-2 jumps left and a not stellar vertical recovery. I REALLY hope this is another bug, because the regular Dair in the prior Riivolution download let me cancel it at a fairly reasonable height and made it actually viable to use offstage. On FD, I have to use a full jump and then 2 DJ's to survive, just to die anyways from not being able to make it anywhere close. As it stands, this move is ridiculously bad offstage. PLZ Strongbad or someone just tell me it's broken again and fix it, I really do not want to believe this is what you guys intended. I'm hoping it's something silly like the Wifi version breaks it.
Side B is sped up much faster than my prior build.
Uthrow hops MK quite a bit further up in the air, and it looks like he can move out of it quicker.
SL feels smoother overall.
Srs though, what the **** happened to Dair?
So let's talk about Dair. The non angled one now isn't letting me jump out of it before dying really. If I use most of my jumps onstage, I can live, but then I'm not getting back from being in the magnifying glass because I have 1-2 jumps left and a not stellar vertical recovery. I REALLY hope this is another bug, because the regular Dair in the prior Riivolution download let me cancel it at a fairly reasonable height and made it actually viable to use offstage. On FD, I have to use a full jump and then 2 DJ's to survive, just to die anyways from not being able to make it anywhere close. As it stands, this move is ridiculously bad offstage. PLZ Strongbad or someone just tell me it's broken again and fix it, I really do not want to believe this is what you guys intended. I'm hoping it's something silly like the Wifi version breaks it.
Side B is sped up much faster than my prior build.
Uthrow hops MK quite a bit further up in the air, and it looks like he can move out of it quicker.
SL feels smoother overall.
Srs though, what the **** happened to Dair?
brawl dair was broken as hell
also if you're using new dair anywhere other than on-stage for combo extending you're doing it wrong
also if you're using new dair anywhere other than on-stage for combo extending you're doing it wrong
If they intended it to be used for onstage comboing, then it could have been made shorter so that it doesn't ass rocket you to your death offstage. Havng the move travel to the bottom blast zone doesn't suggest they made it for funsies onstage. Assuming what I have is the fixed, completely intentional Dair, then this is a horrible failure overall as a move.
MegaGuy
Smash Apprentice
Not as awesome as Down-B
are you really that bad w/ meta knight
the length of it is telling you "hey, do this in a position where you're safe you idiot", and it does that very well as an incredibly quick attack from above
come on keep up
the length of it is telling you "hey, do this in a position where you're safe you idiot", and it does that very well as an incredibly quick attack from above
come on keep up
GuruKid
Smash Ace
IDC (Insta Dimensional Cape) on that mini-rest status.
Loooooove this character. So far he's been a great complement to my main, Diddy (notably against spacies and Marth).
Loooooove this character. So far he's been a great complement to my main, Diddy (notably against spacies and Marth).
on the flipside, I'm pretty sure spacies can't do much to recover if you angle the dair right, so if you're one stock up there ya go, free edgeguard kill
GingaBread
Smash Cadet
full hop diagonal dair is like a falcon kick on crack. too good.
MegaGuy
Smash Apprentice
DAir gives MK a mean vortex game. Combo wrapping up and coming back down to the stage? DAir starts a new one. Terrifying if you ask me.
You could fulfill that purpose without making it thatttttt longgggggggggggg
Just about any cool onstage thing could have been accomplished with half the distance
But no it's perfect everyone should have a Dair like that, super drill bros
Just about any cool onstage thing could have been accomplished with half the distance
But no it's perfect everyone should have a Dair like that, super drill bros