Daedatheus
Smash Lord
I've heard this elsewhere as well, but it makes no f-ing sense.
The competetive scene has given Melee and Smash bros. such lasting legacy in gaming. Does Sakurai also dislike the fact that Melee is the #1 selling Gamecube game?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Melee vs 64?
- Thread starter MattNF
- Start date
The competetive scene has given Melee and Smash bros. such lasting legacy in gaming. Does Sakurai also dislike the fact that Melee is the #1 selling Gamecube game?
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
He feels the general buyers of new age games are casual gamers...and he is right...this is about le moneys
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
Pretty stupid if you ask me but, hopefully in the future he will add the features back but there would be a intro video of them OR he could just have a turn off feature or something like that. Also making all characters balanced. Man brawl is screwed based in balance.
Mew2Thing
Smash Rookie
i like melee more than 64, mainly because i like the style of play that melee needs. Yet i LOVE smash64 online!
AL2DAX
Smash Apprentice
THANK YOU!! That's what I was TRYING to say
and to be honest, I don't really know why I like brawl out of all 3. After playing Melee, and SSB64, brawl was just more "my style" of game. so i guess that's why I like it
i got tired of constantly wave dashing and timing L-cancels and such. Brawl, IMO(IN MY OPINION FYI) just lets me play the game at a slower pace and finding out other ATs to use rather than WD, L-cancel, and etc.
and err sorry about the trolling earlier on...i was bored
and what's wrong with more levels/stages? Last I checked, variety was a good thing, no?
Brawl has no f*cking technical stuff. You can like a slow game but, hm, lol.... i mean c'mon....i got tired of constantly wave dashing and timing L-cancels and such. Brawl, IMO(IN MY OPINION FYI) just lets me play the game at a slower pace and finding out other ATs to use rather than WD, L-cancel, and etc.
and err sorry about the trolling earlier on...i was bored
and what's wrong with more levels/stages? Last I checked, variety was a good thing, no?
and i didnt say more stages/chars/items were bad... just pointed out that this is not a reason for Brawl to be good at all.......,Btw, this is just what ssb64 needs to be absolutely perfect.
AL2DAX
Smash Apprentice
hmm...the only thing about brawl not being "technical" that bothers me is that someone can possibly bring out a character's full potential in like less than a month..if that
but i don't know i think brawl deserves at least a bit more time..it's only been out 8 months as opposes to melee's 8 years and SSB64's 12 years?
to me, brawl is like wiping my SSB-gaming slate, clean. it gives me a chance to be better by finding out my own techniques and such since it's physics engine is very different from the previous 2.
I like fresh starts in other words
Don't know how it would feel like but... yeah. why not... Balancing it of course.SuPeRbOoM said:
Sakugay should stop making noobs happy and listen more to the good players D:
AL2DAX, why give Brawl more time? Unless you haven't a clue about gaming, you realise at the first matches that this game is non-technical crap.
AL2DAX
Smash Apprentice
why give it time? well only to be fair. Yeah, from what it looks like right now, it's probably reached it's dead end. But only time will tell. I'm not sure how far along melee was when it's key ATs were found but i'm sure it wasn't right off the bat.
and i'm not trying to draw any flames here but just because brawl doesn't have "true combos" doesn't make it utter crap or how most of you say..s***
It actually gives players on the defense, counter-options and the offensive player plays more cautiously..or "on their feet". not having true combos kind of brings out the human in us. what i mean by that is, mind games become more important. with mind games, we're more prone to make mistakes. And whether some of you want to believe it or not, brawl does have combos...not fancy shmancy combos like melee or SSB64 but they do exist and can rack up damage rather quickly...all of this is IMO. except for that last statement of mine.
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
The whole "technical" debate doesn't bother me too much. There's always tech skill to be learned, and it often takes a while to unearth all the tricks.hmm...the only thing about brawl not being "technical" that bothers me is that someone can possibly bring out a character's full potential in like less than a month..if that
What bothers me is that with the lack of hitstun, lack of move cancelling and with so many characters possessing extremely effective means of camping, the metagame for Brawl has become slow, campy, defensive, and generally boring compared to the others. Definitely less impressive to watch. It's still a lot of fun to play but the core mechanics that were changed ever so slightly have had an enormous magnified impact on the way we all play the game.
Pit a great player against an okay one, sure, you'll see aggressive ****, but two excellent players against each other has much less amazing moments than a top-level Melee or SSB64 match.
Admittedly the game is still young for a fighting game, so we'll see how it pans out. I still play it anyway, but prefer the others.
AL2DAX
Smash Apprentice
Lol the first thing i thought of when I finished reading your post was "man o man does tripping suck XD"
aside from that, ever hear that "defense wins championships"? jk but I ACTUALLY like the defensive approach to this game. In a way, when you're playing against a person of quality skills, you never know what they're going to do when you are playing the offensive. I am 99.9% sure that out of everyone here on this board I'm probably the only one who likes defense. =/
I also like not having L cancel (no, i'm not crazy
) but with the exclusion of it, it makes you play your aerial game a lot more strategically and cautiously. Ex: Toon Link/Link's dair. With L-cancel, it gives them a better chance to get away for their mistakes instead of getting punished. Not having hitstun got me a bit mad when i first started playing brawl but after awhile it just grew on me. That's why like i said, it's all about preference.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Everything you say makes no sense. Let me pick this apart so it doesn't seem like im being "unfair".Lol the first thing i thought of when I finished reading your post was "man o man does tripping suck XD"
aside from that, ever hear that "defense wins championships"? jk but I ACTUALLY like the defensive approach to this game. In a way, when you're playing against a person of quality skills, you never know what they're going to do when you are playing the offensive. I am 99.9% sure that out of everyone here on this board I'm probably the only one who likes defense. =/
I also like not having L cancel (no, i'm not crazy
"In a way, when you're playing against a person of quality skills, you never know what they're going to do when you are playing the offensive."
This is why in smash64 you apply pressure on your foe, so that you can force them to do specific things, and or limit their options.
Melee's WD tech, allowed for even more defensive, offensive strategies. You could run in, WD backwards, and then analyze how your foe attempted to attack, or defend.
In brawl, the only means of drawing out your foe, without rushing in, is to spam projectiles...they even took out real dashdancing :|
"I'm probably the only one who likes defense. =/"
if by defense you mean playing slow and camping then yes, you are the only one.
"I also like not having L cancel (no, i'm not crazy
) but with the exclusion of it, it makes you play your aerial game a lot more strategically and cautiously"so your saying, the inclusion of delay helped add to the strategy of smash, because it makes attacks more punishable? To bad that punishment can only be one big attack or a 2 hit combo...in smash64 if you make an error and you get punished, you get either KOd, or left with a very high %. Seems like it would require less strategy for brawl again in my eyes... you can be punished in both, but in melee and Smash64 the punishment is worse, meaning you have to be a lot more careful...wow sounds like defense to me o.o
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Most people don't enjoy the defensive style. The thing about Melee & 64 is that they had good offensive mechanics (l-cancelling, hitstun, shieldstun) that Brawl lacks. No l-cancelling or shieldstun means people will get punished all the time. And the lack of hitstun means punishing isn't going to accomplish much.aside from that, ever hear that "defense wins championships"? jk but I ACTUALLY like the defensive approach to this game. In a way, when you're playing against a person of quality skills, you never know what they're going to do when you are playing the offensive. I am 99.9% sure that out of everyone here on this board I'm probably the only one who likes defense. =/
I also like not having L cancel (no, i'm not crazy
In the SSB games, the goal is to inflict as much damage to the opponent as possible (so as to either KO them, or make them easier to KO). Combos are the main method for doing this. In Melee, combos could inflict up to 80-90% where as combos in 64 often resulted in a stock. Brawl's only "true combos" are chaingrabs, which only do about 30% max outside of infinites (which goes into Brawls lack of balance which I mention below). This means Brawl players have to find another way of racking up damage safely. So, they turn to projectile camping.
Now in Brawl, there are three main things you can do if you are being camped against. The best option is an anti-camper, who can negate the opposing spam or turn it against the spammer (e.g. G&W, Zelda, Lucas). The second option is a counter-camper, who uses their own spam to negate the opposing projectiles or override them (e.g. Dedede, Falco) (Watching two people camp against each other gets boring btw). If you can't do either of those, then you are forced to approach giving the opponent an advantage. This is why characters like Captain Falcon & Jigglypuff are so bad. They are offensive-based characters placed in a defensive game.
The balance of the game also comes into question when you look at the huge gap between the characters. Meta Knight vs Captain Falcon is almost like a free win. This is because some characters can combo (chaingrab) while others can't. Some characters can spam projectiles very well, some can spam decently, while some can't spam at all. 64 was balanced because everyone could combo effectively; everyone could rack up damage safely & efficiently (even Samus had combos). In Brawl, some characters just can't inflict damage well while others are excellent at it. Melee had the same problem, but they could overcome it with mindgames & pressuring. Brawl is a shallow game with few room for mindgames & pressuring.
I could go on & on about all of Brawl's faults, but what I'm trying to say is that we don't hate Brawl because we suck at it. We hate it because, from a competitive standpoint, it is an inferior game. It lacks character balance & any type of offense. I'm not flaming you or Brawl; I'm simply stating the facts about Brawl. Sorry for the wall of text, but I have a lot to say on this topic.
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
You said everything I was thinking, thank you.
The game is still fun, but it pales in comparison next to the other Smash Bros games, and kind of abandons what the games were about.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
I just now saw this.... I got to say, I'm very disapointed in this thread now, VERY disapointed. =/
Oh no! You don't like my opinion! I am deeply and personally affected by this information.I just now saw this.... I got to say, I'm very disapointed in this thread now, VERY disapointed. =/
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
youve got to love the arrogence of a person who thinks every comment would be target at him
What are you talking about? Did you even read the last few posts, or are you just responding to every single thread in the entire forum like you usually do?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Our forum is pretty small, there's not much else to do ¬.¬
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
lol you proved my point xP
you and koro love irrelevant facts
"or are you just responding to every single thread in the entire forum like you usually do?"
bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
yes i normally do try to respond to every topic, if i have something to say, sorry if that offends you (im not really xP)
You're really weird. It's like you're trying to start arguments for no point whatsoever. Your original reply to me made no sense at all, anyway. Stop trolling or I'll report you.
Let's get back on topic, shall we?
Dash_Fox
Smash Ace
Quit fighting clan members or I'll have to get personal with you guys. Boom and I will torture you with 2v1's from HELL.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Me? The original comment wasn’t even pointed at you, you're a spas: P
I was talking about the fact that, (i hate sentences like this) that guy who said this thread disappoints him, as if the thread where made to please him...
and yes i am weird
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Your original comment easily looks like it was pointed at MattNF. But I see it works for the other guy too. Still...
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
i think it works for both because of how quickly he posted to try to bash me.
ITS A TRAP!
just some SWF fun
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
More like stupid SSB64 shenanigans.
I like both, but I'm much better at SSB64 compared to the general populace (mainly because no one plays this game).
I like both, but I'm much better at SSB64 compared to the general populace (mainly because no one plays this game).
As i said, this is because people usually think newer = better, and its not true xP
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
Happens with music too and it's more often false than it is true.
Better production values + more characters =/= Better game
rudeezy
Smash Journeyman
i wanted to bring this up to people's attention. the only reason the first two games took so long to develop these ATs was because of the little amount of people playing them until about the end of melee. but with Brawl, you've got that large amount of people that came to the community at the end + all the brawl noobs that joined too, so with all those people you should have found a technique already. besides, there really isn't anything you could "figure out" considering how oversimplified the game mechanics are.
hey guys im a melee enthusiast just browsin' forums for me 2nd favorite game.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
i agree....well not really..
melee's fan base was huge too, smash64 not so much...
but your definitely right in saying this
" there really isn't anything you could "figure out" considering how oversimplified the game mechanics are."
that's almost good enough to switch my sig...almost
the game Mechanics for "harvest moon, tree of tranquility" are more fun then Brawls IMO
P.S.: My sister bought that game and its already got more monetary value imo
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Actually, most of Melee's techniques were discovered early in its lifespan. Wavedashing was discovered about 2 weeks after Melee's release & l-canceling not long after.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Superstar
Smash Champion
It was even on the official site.
I still need to find that archive. When I find it, the lists of techs doesn't work.
_kSo_
Smash Master
I like melee the best. i have no interest in brawl, and I will still play ssb64 every now and then, but there are none at Purdue, so I am always playing melee.
still, 64 was my fav for a while, but I've been converted to melee by ckit
still, 64 was my fav for a while, but I've been converted to melee by ckit
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
if there was a melee scene or melee online around here id be able to say the same...smash64 peoples r dum
i suppose melee is probably like that too though D: