Melee Techniques Being Left out of Brawl

[Sandwich]

You don't have to insult me. If opposing opinions are considered "flamebait" and banworthy there'd be no healthy discussion on the internet. It's honestly not my fault someone doesn't have self-control when they hit post and can't refrain from insulting me. I shouldn't get in trouble because someone decided to flame me.

Lolno.
I'm a mean person. I call people things. =\
This thread=/=debate
This thread=/=flamebait.

It's a controversal topic. Get over it, we're not all sunshines and candycanes. There are trolls waiting to attack good-intentioned threads everywhere. But responding to their cheap attacks is fail.
Nub lolz.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yes they do, because then it comes down to how powerful you are.
Although tournaments are usually on a level field because most people in tournaments can wavedash/L-cancel, so both opponents have the same advantages.

"Powerful"? What the **** does that mean? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Seriously. I can't stop laughing. You're one of the funniest *******es I've seen on these boards.

There is nothing remotely level about the playing fields at tournaments. Some players possess far more skill than others and 4-stock them. I could 4-stock you in about six seconds. There are players who 4-stock me. I don't cry about it and tell them to "be fair" or any whiny **** like that. I practice before the next tournament and hopefully I do a little better at the next one.

When you take the mindset that you don't need to improve, but that the tournament playing field just needs to get dumbed down to accomodate your failures, then you are being a scrub.

 

[Red Exodus]

Insults. Flaming. You've been reported.
I AM serious, and I'm seriously discussing. Discuss on a mature level or get out.

Boohoo, if your poor excuse for a report even works, I'll get what? 1 point? 2 Points max?


You can't back up your biased arguments in context, you can't handle people playing the game differently so you decide how it should be played, you come onto a site based on the few things that you don't accept.

Do you expect me to take you seriously like this?

P.S. Learn the lingo or don't jump the gun. You are a scrub by definition, I'd post a link to that play to win article but I don't think I have it anymore.

 

[Sandwich]

It's only cheep because you can't do it, and it pisses you off to know that others can do it and we will ALWAYS BEAT YOU. Sucks to be you doesn't it?

Moar nub apparently.
I can't WD for my life. Does it suck to be me? I think not.

 

[Dogenzaka]

This whole argument makes my head hurt

Then stay out of it.

I told you to define "cheap".

K.

cheap (chp)
adj. cheap·er, cheap·est
1.
a. Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
b. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
2.
a. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
b. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
3. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
4. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
5. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
6. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
7. Stingy; miserly.

The game is just, evenhanded, and unbiased.

Not with wavedashing.

Regardless, you are right about one thing: one who knows the advanced techniques clearly has an unfair advantage over one who does not.

Right.

However, the advanced techniques are open to the one who has not learned them yet. So, the game is still fair.

I'd agree with you, but it makes more sense to cater to the majority. The majority of smash players can't do these techniques.

Then why on earth do you care? Go play your games and stop complaining.

Why do you care? Why are you posting here?

It's only cheep because you can't do it

I already stressed that I can.

and it pisses you off to know that others can do it and we will ALWAYS BEAT YOU. Sucks to be you doesn't it?

Sucks to know that what you say isn't true, doesn't it?

the thread will eventually get locked anyway.

My thread isn't breaking any rules >_> it might get locked because of some of the stupid flaming people have done in here, but that's not my fault, that's their lack of self control.

 

[Sandwich]

So um. Why hasn't this board been locked yet?
The mods are really slacking off.

 

[Empty-_-]

Boohoo, if your poor excuse for a report even works, I'll get what? 1 point? 2 Points max?


You can't back up your biased arguments in context, you can't handle people playing the game differently so you decide how it should be played, you come onto a site based on the few things that you don't accept.

Do you expect me to take you seriously like this?

P.S. Learn the lingo or don't jump the gun. You are a scrub by definition, I'd post a link to that play to win article but I don't think I have it anymore.

I posted it a few pages back.

Yeah, +1s =|

 

[Sandwich]

Wow. That post timing is truly ironic.

 

[Red Exodus]

I realize that but they're going to have to grow up and realize the game doesn't revolve around the pro players, it revolves around the good of everyone.

Erm... what? You just owned yourself. The tournament scene doesn't revolve around you so why should we change because you say so?

 

[greenblob]

I say tilts are cheap. They're too fast.

 

[Goldkirby]

You've been here, what, two weeks, and you're deciding who should get out, and how the game should be adjusted to your noob *** preferences?

Actually it is only one week

 

[Sandwich]

I say smash attacks are cheap.

Shines are cheap.
Shoes are cheap.
CONTROLLER ARE CHEEPZORZ!!!!!one

 

[Noypi_GjD]

I say tilts are cheap. They're too fast.

So are items, shield grabbing, marth's grab, shiek, peach, and don't forget Roy... that kid is a monster. wah wah.

 

[sugarpoultry]

This is a pointless thread. You are preaching to too many people who understand what WD is and how to use it "properly." Who cares what he thinks? We all know he's wrong, we don't need tell him over and over, he isn't going to budge.

 

[Dogenzaka]

This thread=/=debate

de·bate (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v.intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.
v.tr.
1. To deliberate on; consider.
2. To dispute or argue about.
3. To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
4. Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.
n.
1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
4. Obsolete Conflict; strife.

I'm a mean person. I call people things. =\

Then you'll get your just consequence.

So um. Why hasn't this board been locked yet?
The mods are really slacking off.

There's no reason for my thread to get locked other than people that flame and insult and distract from the debate. My opinion doesn't break any rules.

Erm... what? You just owned yourself. The tournament scene doesn't revolve around you so why should we change because you say so?

HAHAHAHAHA. Wavedashers/L-cancelers/this forum =/= the majority. THE MINORITY OF SMASH PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PULL OF THESE TECHNIQUES, LET ALONE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. YOU ARE THE MINORITY. THE TOURNAMENT SCENE IS THE MINORITY. You owned yourself. The game shouldn't change for me, since I'm in the minority, and I can pull of these techniques, it should change for the good of the majority, and leveling everyone out. These techniques are ONLY good aspects about the game to those who can pull them off.

Who cares what he thinks? We all know he's wrong, we don't need tell him over and over, he isn't going to budge.

I'm wrong simply because a forum's major opinion is that wavedashing = l33t winz?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

cheap (chp)
adj. cheap·er, cheap·est
1.
a. Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
b. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
2.
a. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
b. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
3. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
4. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
5. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
6. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
7. Stingy; miserly.

OK, so they are cheap. They are unworthy of respect. They are still fair.

Not with wavedashing.

Does wavedashing grant you an automatic win? Of course not! That mixed with the fact that any player has the ability to learn it makes it 100% fair.

I'd agree with you, but it makes more sense to cater to the majority. The majority of smash players can't do these techniques.

The majority of basketball players cannot do what pro players do. Should we change the rules of basketball to accommodate the majority?

 

[Red Exodus]

It's fun to watch scrubs try to worm they're way around arguments by throwing around words like "opinion" and "cheap".

 

[Empty-_-]

It should probably be locked not because of all these evil flamers, but because this type of thread has been posted probably 40 times recently, if you bothered to use a search function you might have seen that, but searching would have given you an unfair advantage and I can see why you would choose to avoid it.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Who cares what he thinks? We all know he's wrong, we don't need tell him over and over, he isn't going to budge.

I'm wrong simply because a forum's major opinion is that wavedashing = l33t winz?

Does wavedashing grant you an automatic win? Of course not!

Of course not, but it makes you unnaturally faster. Giving you an advantage.

It's not like the item. Not everyone has the ability to practice these techniques, nor the time, nor has everyone heard of them.

It's fun to watch scrubs try to worm they're way around arguments by throwing around words like "opinion" and "cheap".

It's fun to watch posters dodge everything by resulting to sly and sarcastic insults behind a computer thinking it makes them win an argument.

The majority of basketball players cannot do what pro players do. Should we change the rules of basketball to accommodate the majority?

It's like steroids. You have the access to them, but they make your performance unnaturally at an advantage. Does that mean they should be legalized because anyone has access to them?

but because this type of thread has been posted probably 40 times recently,

Perhaps, but I'm not like everyone else.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'll be honest. I call techniques "cheap" all the time. I'll be in a tournament, see a new combo used on me, and I call it cheap. However, my interpretation of cheap is drastically different from yours. The true meaning of cheap is "anything that beats you". However, I don't see cheap as something that should be banned from the game. I see cheap as something that I have yet to learn about the game.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

cheap (chp)
adj. cheap·er, cheap·est
1.
a. Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
b. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
2.
a. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
b. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
3. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
4. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
5. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
6. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
7. Stingy; miserly.

Using Advanced Techniques constantly in a match to counteract the opponent when the opponent is charging you and pressuring you takes a lot of practice and effort. Tell me, how much tournament and competitive experience do you have with Smash, or any other game/sport do you have.

 

[Red Exodus]

HAHAHAHAHA. Wavedashers/L-cancelers/this forum =/= the majority. THE MINORITY OF SMASH PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PULL OF THESE TECHNIQUES, LET ALONE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. YOU ARE THE MINORITY. THE TOURNAMENT SCENE IS THE MINORITY. You owned yourself. The game shouldn't change for me, since I'm in the minority, and I can pull of these techniques, it should change for the good of the majority, and leveling everyone out. These techniques are ONLY good aspects about the game to those who can pull them off.

*knock knock*

I'm talking about the website Columbo.

Maybe if you bring a couple thousand of your scrub friends you might make an impact [as if ] but one scrub that doesn't even host tournaments can't change anything about the tournament scene.

Oh yeah, just in case you don't understand casual scene =/= tournament scene

Not everyone is cut out to be a pro, that's why pros actually make money. Columbo.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I think its funny, you say you can WD, but you refuse to. Why? Don't you want to get better? I just started to learn and I'm destroying people who used to pwn me. Why? Because I use it in a way to where they can't touch me. I play mindgames and it ruins their combos.

You strike me as the kind of guy who "has to win" so if you want to win, start using WD. Why do you think the minority of the GOOD players who use it go and win $10,000 tourneys? They have every right to use it. When $10,000 is on the line, using advanced tactics like WD is the only way to win.

 

[Dogenzaka]

8 million smash melee players. Probably half a million can pull of the techniques.

That's about 1/16th of the Smash Melee population.

but you refuse to.

With my friends.
With advanced players I'm FORCED to.

I just started to learn and I'm destroying people who used to pwn me.

Exactly. Before you wavedashed, you would have lost to people naturally better than you, or am I missing something?

I just started to learn and I'm destroying people who used to pwn me.

Of course. That's at tourneys. But how do you think this is going to effect the online community of Smash? It will be no fun. Just like no one likes playing Mario Kart DS online anymore since snakers took over.

 

[Empty-_-]

8 million smash melee players. Probably half a million can pull of the techniques.

That's about 1/16th of the Smash Melee population.



With my friends.
With advanced players I'm FORCED to.



Exactly. Before you wavedashed, you would have lost to people naturally better than you, or am I missing something?

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[Red Exodus]

Well I've been in this thread too long now.

Conclusion:
Dog is an idiot who doesn't know what 'professional' or 'tournament' means.

He strikes me as the kind of guy that would cut his wrists if a pro rally car driver beat him in a race because he has better parts in his car.

 

[Stak]

This thread is bad and you should all feel bad for posting in it

I myself feel like I need a shower just posting this

 

[Shai Hulud]

8 million smash melee players. Probably half a million can pull of the techniques.

That's about 1/16th of the Smash Melee population.

Probably less than that to be realistic. But 100% of competitive Smashers can do them, which makes you whiny and laughable when you bring your complaints here.

Your thread will get locked shortly. If the mods were up to speed it would have been locked immediately, because there have been 100 "omg wavedashin is unfair!" threads before. Your position is untenable. You lose the argument, and you lose at life for making it.

 

[Salaad]

What seperates us is the way we think..Most people at my school think rolling behind someone is the best way to win...

 

[sugarpoultry]

Of course. That's at tourneys. But how do you think this is going to effect the online community of Smash? It will be no fun. Just like no one likes playing Mario Kart DS online anymore since snakers took over.

Ok, what about Mario Strikers? Buzz had a technique done to him from someone online, and he was destroyed 7 to 0. Buzz then took what he learned from that guy, practiced it and started doing it once he got it down, and he did a lot better and/or destroyed opponents online.

Now, is that cheep?

 

[Adi]

That's what I found out 8 pages ago Red.

 

[Dogenzaka]

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

.

Oh really?

Smashboards + the old Nsider forums = <100,000 members, and that's considering the assumption EVERYONE OF THE MEMBERS knew these techniques. That compared to over 8 million sales of Smash Bros. Melee, definitely leaves them in the minority.

Conclusion:
Dog is an idiot who doesn't know what 'professional' or 'tournament' means.

And you're a flamer. A reported flamer, that is. Thanks for leaving.

Oh, and I do.

pro·fes·sion·al (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.
1.
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
n.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

tour·na·ment (trn-mnt, tûr-)
n.
1. A series of contests in which a number of contestants compete and the one that prevails through the final round or that finishes with the best record is declared the winner.
2. A medieval martial sport in which two groups of mounted and armored combatants fought against each other with blunted lances or swords.

He strikes me as the kind of guy that would cut his wrists if a pro rally car driver beat him in a race because he has better parts in his car.

That could be equated to the comparison of different characters in Brawl. So it's irrelevant.

Your comparison would make more sense if I got upset because the person who won was using illegal substances to enhance the performance of his car.

What seperates us is the way we think..Most people at my school think rolling behind someone is the best way to win...

Yeah..

Your thread will get locked shortly. If the mods were up to speed it would have been locked immediately, because there have been 100 "omg wavedashin is unfair!" threads before

And they've probably all been locked as well. So where do I post?

You lose the argument,

No. I continue it.

 

[shadydentist]

Basically, at some level people must be rewarded for taking the time to get good at this game. If that doesn't happen, Brawl will have no real competitive scene.

Brawl will have its own advanced techniques. It will have its own tricks that some may deride as 'cheap' and 'unfair.' Sooner or later, you must prepare yourself for that eventuality.

 

[greenblob]

Taking steroids to build muscle is like taking crack to get a high while playing.
Most advanced techs are comparable to exactly what advanced techs are in sports--techniques that are essential for high-level play. In ping-pong, that might be knowing how to spin the ball. In martial arts sparring, they might include reversals or point-guarding.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm wrong simply because a forum's major opinion is that wavedashing = l33t winz?

Majority opinion does not automatically make it right, but it is definitely an indicator that there must be good reason for so many to believe in it.

Of course not, but it makes you unnaturally faster. Giving you an advantage.

It's not like the item. Not everyone has the ability to practice these techniques, nor the time, nor has everyone heard of them.

I cannot believe you just mentioned items as part of this debate. When an item drops, one player picks it up, and the other player is left without an item. That is unfair. (I'm not saying items are unfair. I'm just saying that this particular scenario is far less fair than wavedashing.) You keep bringing up how people don't have the time to learn these techniques. THAT IS LIFE! If you don't have the time to learn advanced techniques then competitive smash is not for you!

It's like steroids. You have the access to them, but they make your performance unnaturally at an advantage. Does that mean they should be legalized because anyone has access to them?

This is a bad analogy. I realize you are attacking the "everyone has access" aspect of my statements, but trying to equate it to other areas of life simply does not work. In this case, steroids have a million other factors involved (they cost extra money, they are unhealthy for the body, drugs have legal issues outside of sports even, etc.). A more proper analogy would be applying spin to the ball in ping pong. Both players are capable of doing it, even if only one has practiced it up for the tournament. Should ball spin be banned because it is unfair how one player prepared it before arriving at the competition?

 

[DragonBlade]

These techniques leave the people who can pull them off at an advantage. A decent player and a decent player that knows L-cancelling and wavedashing, who has the advantage?

False, they do not provide an advantage, but they provide more options. Its arguable weather or not this gives an advantage. If there is some advantage, they are situational at best. You have lost all credibility at a smash player.

 

[Shai Hulud]

.And they've probably all been locked as well. So where do I post?

http://www.gamefaqs.com

 

[Junpappy]

Basically you want everyone to suck as much as you do?

 

[Dogenzaka]

False, they do not provide an advantage,

Making yourself unnaturally faster and canceling out lag IS an advantage. So it's true, and you're wrong.

A more proper analogy would be applying spin to the ball in ping pong.

But that's not a glitch o.o

Majority opinion does not automatically make it right, but it is definitely an indicator that there must be good reason for so many to believe in it.

Right, but this forum =/= the majority of the population's opinion >.>

When an item drops, one player picks it up, and the other player is left without an item. That is unfair.

Aren't items usually disqualified in tournaments? lol.

THAT IS LIFE! If you don't have the time to learn advanced techniques then competitive smash is not for you!

Perhaps.

http://www.gamefaqs.com

I'm not going to go to GameFAQs simply because this forum only allows one person to post a brand new perspective once before it's illegal for other people, or simply because others have agreed with me before. If anything, that should add credit to my argument.

Basically you want everyone to suck as much as you do?

Aw another ineffective sarcastic response.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

[8 million smash melee players. Probably half a million can pull of the techniques.
That's about 1/16th of the Smash Melee population.]
Source?

[With my friends. With advanced players I'm FORCED to.]
Is there something wrong with being left in the dust, I lose a lot compared to other BC smashers but I'm not going around complaining, and at the same time my friends/and their friends are all at about the same level...but I'm a bit better because I took the time to practice more than them.

[Exactly. Before you wavedashed, you would have lost to people naturally better than you, or am I missing something?]
Define 'naturally.' I suppose it is in my nature to improve myself, be it in school, artwork, or competitive hobby...even if that means learning study techniques or sketching techniques.

[Of course. That's at tourneys. But how do you think this is going to effect the online community of Smash? It will be no fun. Just like no one likes playing Mario Kart DS online anymore since snakers took over.]
To be honest, I don't really give a **** about Online play, sweet its there, but I enjoy taking the time to journey around the city to meet smasher in person, in person they are a lot more reasonable and the atmosphere is more cheerful. Online has always been, for the most part full of scrubs whining and talking out of their *****.

[/QUOTE]