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Melee Stage List

Rockenos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
181
Location
Atlanta, GA
Hey, guys, let's keep it civil
No need to call each other stupid, we're not playing Brawl.

Basically what I'm seeing is:
"Randal isn't random and is easy to learn the timing for"
And "The Randal Timer is too difficult to keep track of and even if I was, knee opportunities etc. Only come about so often, it's not like I'm going to miss a knee on purpose because randal might save him"

Both are valid points, the real question is: should you have to keep tracj of a randal timer and does randal interrupt the game enough to be banworthy, or at least conterpick worthy?

I really do feel like it should be a CP... But I'm a really baised puff main so yeah. I don't need randal, I have infinite recovery (lol) and it sometimes screws with the bair train.


Also, anyone who disagrees with Hax should money match him :troll:

:phone:
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
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Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
Kal i dont think u have ever played in a tournament. If you have, i know for a fact youve never been the best player in the room. People in tournaments play to win and make money. I know the best people in every room would prefer to never have to worry about jankiness of stages.

Jank gives undeserved and uncontrolable opportunity for the better player to lose. THIS ISNT OK in competitive games.
Inb4 u say it affects both players. NO ****. Jank is just another variable. Do i deserve to beat hax because i clocked randall correctly 4 times? No ****ing way. Do i deserve to beat some1 because the platform i fell on changed height 6 times in a match? **** NO.

Also i know ur a worthless troll because u expect people to know where randall is based on the timer, in the middle of a tournament match.

I agree with aziz, GG smashboards.

:phone:
This is really dumb. I've met and played you and kal is MUCH better than you are at melee. No comparison. He's also won several tournaments. You were a very cool person but this post is incredibly douchy.
 

Ryzol_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
176
Location
Greenville, SC (school) Charlotte, NC(break)
Randall isn't insurmountably hard to keep track of. Look at the timer.

Randall only comes out when the last digit is a 5. He is present for 5 seconds. To know which side he is on look at the next to last digit. If the 10's digit is even randall is on the left side. If the 10's digit is odd randall is on the right side.

Examples:
6:35 Randall is on the right side.
5:25 Randall is on the left side.
7:45 Randall is on the left side.
6:05 Randall is on the left side.

6:02 Randall is on the left side because 0 is even and 2 is between 5 and 0.
6:34 Randall is on the right side because 3 is odd and 4 is between 5 and 0.


---
What I'm interested in is the pattern/nonrandomness of FoD platforms.
 

Ghostbone

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
4,665
Location
Australia
If you want to ban Yoshi's for randomness at least base your arguments on what's actually random about the stage, not something that's 100% predictable and takes like 5 seconds to learn the pattern of.

Shy guys are random right?
 

Sinji

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
3,370
Location
Brooklyn New York
NNID
Sinjis
3DS FC
0361-6602-9839
Fly guys helps you and messes you up in terms of the lag.

@Ryzol. I didn't know that good stuff.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Fly guys helps you and messes you up in terms of the lag.

@Ryzol. I didn't know that good stuff.
That's why you use them for your own advantage instead of complaining how BS shyguys and randall is. Freaking kids looking at things so negatively these days.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
i've never like lost a game or a stock because of fly guys and they're the only real issue with YS outside of the stupidly close boundaries. i find the boundaries to be a much better argument for making it a CP/off the stage strike list than randall.

losing a game or stock or edgeguard to randall is like losing an edgeguard to an upper platform your opponent recovered to and you weren't fast enough to get there and punish their landlag, or getting tippered on a platform due to its placement. nothin random, just part of the stage.
 

Sinji

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
3,370
Location
Brooklyn New York
NNID
Sinjis
3DS FC
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That's why you use them for your own advantage instead of complaining how BS shyguys and randall is. Freaking kids looking at things so negatively these days.
yea i understand you. LOL. But when your in zone, it's hard to plan out how your going to use them for your advantage. And I wasn't complaining. In fact YS is one of my fav. stages because of the low ceiling.

Maybe this thread should be called Melee Stage question and answer and people could ask question like how do I use this stage to my advantage.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
either

Neutral: YS, FoD, BF, PS, DL; Counter: FD

or

Neutral: YS, FoD, BF, PS, DL; Counter: FD, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Corneria, Pokefloats, Mute City


Either no jank or competitive jank. Partial jank is just bias and inconsistent.
 

Jonas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
2,401
Location
Aarhus, Denmark, Europe
I think we're at a point where we just have to accept that most stages suck and aren't exactly designed with competition in mind. We're kind of running out of stages to play on, and if we ban a stage like Yoshi's because of silly reason like the goddamn cloud, then we might as well go all the way and play FD only like Japan. Banning BF because of the ledges, PS because of the stage transformations, FoD because of the platforms and Dreamland because of the wind are just as legit as banning YS because of the cloud. We could also ban FD because of chaingrabs and camping and have no stages to play on. The we can just play Super Theory Bros. which seems to be a popular game here on SWF.
Either that or we decide on a larger stage list so that players can use the stages strategically. We only have to ban stages that downright break the game, not stages that are "too random" (even though few of them are actually random at all) or favor camping or certain characters.
 

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.

[collapse="I want my sig to show up"]
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
I think there are plenty of viable tournament stages beside what we consider standard at this point in time. But I'm a troll who doesn't know anything about this game, so . . .I suppose I digress.
[/collapse]
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
Flyguy + Marth Sword = Enter hitlag.

Proceed to be shined to Usmash for being too slow to properly combo fox.

Retribution is a *****.
why did you slash at a flyguy instead of your opponent?
 

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
2,170
Location
Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
why did you slash at a flyguy instead of your opponent?
I guess he hit fox and a bit later, while the hitbox was further extending a flyguy decided to end his life quickly and painful and jump into the blade just before the hitbox was gone, extending the hit lag of the move for long enough so he couldn't follow up on fox, who then proceeded to waveshine to upsmash, as he stated.

What I'm interested in is the pattern/nonrandomness of FoD platforms.
if I am not mistaken, the FoD platforms are based on which side of the stage the players are on. So there is no pattern, just the player positions determining what the stage will do.

@ongoing debate:
I am fine with the current stage list. Minor randomness (or even sometimes pretty decisive things) is not so bad. It's not like those come into deciding matches unless the players are pretty close in skill, and some randomness isn't even part of the stage. One might be able to read his opponent most of the time, there still is the chance that he can get more successful reads in one particular match, then what he is able to get on average. Or close calls, like deciding whether your nair will come out before Fox can hit you with an upair after an up throw. Another example showing that randomness isn't bad per se is poker. Despite the card distribution being completely random and out of control, good players are still able to read their opponents so well they will make money in the long run (unrelated comic, which I like a lot: http://www.abload.de/img/gamblingeusq.jpg )

Looking at matches on KJ64 / Pokefloats / RC is not making me wish we had those stages in the pool of available maps. PS can be pretty annoying with the stage transformations and both players sitting on either side waiting for the obstacle to go away, but that stuff going on for the whole match is simply not fun to play / watch. (<3 Mango for ALWAYS approaching, no matter what)
Brinstar: I'm not completely sold on this one. It doesn't look to bad, and playing matches on it didn't feel bad, but on the other hand, that lava stuff is pretty meh =)
Mute City: Well, if a stage is considered in favour of characters like Peach and the (probably) best Peach player states that he feels Peach is way to strong on the stage, there should be enough reason to think about it for a second. I feel he is right, with Peach / Jigglypuff not needing the edge to recover since their up b moves are not having any landing lag (or is simply not a recovery move for jigglypuff), there is a pretty big advantage for those characters in taking away the edge from characters whose up b move is pretty unsafe to land on the stage with.
Small advantages are ok (since if there were no advantages to be had, all stages would need to be pretty similar and bland). For example, me being a peach main, i really like DL vs Marth, because he doesn't profit nearly as much from the added side blast boxes, since he often won't be high enough to make it back anyways. I rarely kill off the top, and he does, so the higher top blast boxes are in my favour as well. The stage is pretty big, so I have room to move around and pull some turnips (and he isn't covering half the stage with his sword and tentacle arms =) ). And last, but not least, he can't fmash me through the platforms *yay* :)
So I have a lot of stuff going for me, but it's far away from winning me that many more matches. I feel it's like this with the whole neutral stage list (PS is neutral for that matter imho =) ). Even if there are some exceptions (like maybe CF on FoD), with one stage ban I feel no character can be taken to a stage where he can really john about the stage losing the match for him, so I feel there is little reason to introduce more stages. While it is fun to play on others for a while, you can always do that in friendlies.
 

Sinji

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,370
Location
Brooklyn New York
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Sinjis
3DS FC
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the hitlag for marth's fsmash against fly guys is like his fsmash on brawl. lol
 

Sinji

Smash Master
Joined
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Brooklyn New York
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Sinjis
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0361-6602-9839
then play on it. honestly have fun. play competitively and have fun.

I still play on great bay. I still remember the timing when the turtle dives down. lol
 
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