Melee Online: Progress Report

[Bones0]

I think people want to see a video because the last video of Melee online had people teleporting and **** after about 15 seconds. If you really want to reassure people it works, get it to beta so we can play. lol

 

[Anth0ny]

The future is now. I will gladly upgrade my PC with whatever it needs to play Melee online at 60fps.

Good luck guys!

 

[standardtoaster]

I just want to see the real-time jigglypuff position changing. lol

 

[Dan Salvato]

I just want to see the real-time jigglypuff position changing. lol

Maybe I'll throw together a quick video screwing around with stuff like that. We can change positions, velocities, percents, stock, action state, essentially anything we want at will now.

 

[Spyro]

I think people want to see a video because the last video of Melee online had people teleporting and **** after about 15 seconds. If you really want to reassure people it works, get it to beta so we can play. lol

This x100.

 

[Morin0]

Maybe I'll throw together a quick video screwing around with stuff like that. We can change positions, velocities, percents, stock, action state, essentially anything we want at will now.

For some reason I feel like what you guys are doing -- editing the in game mechanics -- has been done before by people like Magus etc.

Is there a difference as to what you guys are doing? Perhaps it's easier? Surpassing past hacking barriers/limits?

 

[Dan Salvato]

For some reason I feel like what you guys are doing -- editing the in game mechanics -- has been done before by people like Magus etc.

Is there a difference as to what you guys are doing? Perhaps it's easier? Surpassing past hacking barriers/limits?

You're right, this has been done. Controlling in-game mechanics is only a small part of what needs to be done for online functionality. Every value needs to be perfectly synchronized to the client with frame precision.

Besides, control over universal random events and action states are two things that have never been done before, to my knowledge. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to write my own assembly, haha.

 

[Anth0ny]

I think I need to invest in one of these...

 

[standardtoaster]

That looks a lot better than having to have a converter.

 

[Strong Badam]

Other than the fact you don't need to get used to a different controller

 

[LLDL]

So the complete control over random events is nessecary so that if one of the games desyncs with the other, the emulator will make the two states identical? Or is it something more than that? Forgive me, I have little understanding of networking.

 

[TheDekuNut]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/07/28/3-in-1-magic-joy-box

this works flawlessly

 

[Dan Salvato]

So the complete control over random events is nessecary so that if one of the games desyncs with the other, the emulator will make the two states identical? Or is it something more than that? Forgive me, I have little understanding of networking.

There is something called the random seed, a value in memory that changes every frame. The value can be literally anything from 0 to 4294967295, and it is completely unpredictable. The tiniest changes in the game can generate a completely different random seed. This seed is used to calculate every random event that occurs in Melee; it's the random number generator. Since we're playing online and running two copies of the game, those two copies aren't identical; the timing is slightly different, and inputs might accidentally occur a frame earlier or later.

So, instead of using Melee's default random seed function, which unpredictably changes every frame, we hijacked the whole thing and now feed it our own random seed. Massive cleverly made this random seed only change every time pad data is sent over the network, meaning it's guaranteed to change on the same frame on both ends, and to the same value. As long as the random seed is identical on both ends, any random event will turn out the same.

TL;DR: Control over random events prevents desyncing in the first place, since we guarantee that anything random is the exact same on both ends.

 

[rokimomi]

do stage hazzards ever change the random seed?

 

[The Star King]

That looks a lot better than having to have a converter.

How is it better

Not usable on Gamecube

Have to get used to new controller

Limited to that controller for online (unless you want to buy more), while if you buy an adapter you can use any Gamecube controller you want

 

[Dan Salvato]

do stage hazzards ever change the random seed?

No; stage hazards are changed BY the random seed, though. The stage transformations on Pokemon Stadium, for example.

 

[LLDL]

Makes complete sense. So now desync should be nothing more than emulator crash or really bad connection. Also is this a custom emulator or a plugin.

 

[Massive]

Makes complete sense. So now desync should be nothing more than emulator crash or really bad connection. Also is this a custom emulator or a plugin.

We're using dolphin emulation pretty much in tact at the moment, but I've substantially altered and enhanced the netplay functionality. After the core functionality is established, we'll start streamlining the emulator until it plays melee as flawlessly as possible.

 

[LLDL]

We're using dolphin emulation pretty much in tact at the moment, but I've substantially altered and enhanced the netplay functionality. After the core functionality is established, we'll start streamlining the emulator until it plays melee as flawlessly as possible.

Cool. What version of melee are you guys basing the work off, and will it matter if a player is using a different version? Or do you plan to have it optimize any version the player loads.

 

[standardtoaster]

How is it better

Not usable on Gamecube

Have to get used to new controller

Limited to that controller for online (unless you want to buy more), while if you buy an adapter you can use any Gamecube controller you want

I meant aesthetically, lol.

 

[Massive]

Cool. What version of melee are you guys basing the work off, and will it matter if a player is using a different version? Or do you plan to have it optimize any version the player loads.

We only support version 1.02, and there will be a patcher tool to convert whatever version iso you have to what is required.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Anyone happen to have experience with Assembly?

 

[Bones0]

Get this man some ****ing Assembly assistance, STAT!

(maybe add it in the thread title) :D

 

[Dan Salvato]

Get this man some ****ing Assembly assistance, STAT!

(maybe add it in the thread title) :D

Haha. It's not urgent, I'm just looking ahead a little while Massive works on a couple issues. I'm fine on my own for the time being.

 

[The Star King]

So will there be a REPLAY function like kaillera has?

 

[Fregadero]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/07/28/3-in-1-magic-joy-box

this works flawlessly

This is how I techskill half the time

 

[Dan Salvato]

So will there be a REPLAY function like kaillera has?

Yes. We're also hoping to include an instant replay at end-game. I'm thinking about removing "GAME!" altogether so you have a couple seconds to spam tech skill after winning the match, haha.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yes. We're also hoping to include an instant replay at end-game. I'm thinking about removing "GAME!" altogether so you have a couple seconds to spam tech skill after winning the match, haha.

GODLIKE

10godlikes

 

[Svetsunov]

I'm thinking about removing "GAME!" altogether so you have a couple seconds to spam tech skill after winning the match, haha.

Take ALL OF IT

 

[KrIsP!]

Don't get rid of game, but do allow a few seconds to taunt and stuff...maybe you can hacks the winner screen to be playable like in brawl.

 

[Bones0]

Just make the "GAME!" smaller. While you're at it, make the "GO!" in the beginning smaller and put it at the top (below the timer) so players can actually see themselves.

 

[Fregadero]

While you're at it, make the "GO!" in the beginning smaller and put it at the top (below the timer) so players can actually see themselves.

This is my biggest issue with melee

 

[Geenareeno]

Guys how about if you don't waveland off the spawn platform at the beginning of the match you lose your stock.

 

[Spyro]

Guys how about if you don't waveland off the spawn platform at the beginning of the match you lose your stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJxya0CWco&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Dan Salvato]

Guys how about if you don't waveland off the spawn platform at the beginning of the match you lose your stock.

We were brainstorming additional game modes for fun and training such as a "no roll mode" where you lose a stock for rolling. That won't come until later, though.

Random events are being a **** at the moment. You'd think there was one "random" function but NOPE, every freaking random event has to work differently.

 

[Spyro]

We were brainstorming additional game modes for fun and training such as a "no roll mode" where you lose a stock for rolling. That won't come until later, though.

O these are addional game modes? Lol I though Geenareeno was talking about for every match. I fail

 

[ajp_anton]

If you're actually going to edit the visuals, please make the character icons the same as PAL (assuming you're going to use NTSC)...

 

[Bones0]

They said they're using NTSC 1.2.

 

[The Star King]

If you're actually going to edit the visuals, please make the character icons the same as PAL (assuming you're going to use NTSC)...

Um, is it seriously a big deal?

 

[rawrimamonster]

This is some hot fapness right here, glad me getting used to melee on keys wasn't a waste of time. Just wish my keyboard understood certain inputs.