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Melee Counterpick Stages Debate
- Thread starter JFox
- Start date
Eggm
Smash Hero
Its not auto win, but it certainly has at least a 80% win rate for peach. Overswarm, i'm willing to bet that the majority of the smash community would bet on Armada to win an all mute city tournament than any other smasher. Would you disagree? I doubt it. So even tho its not auto win its pretty much the closest thing melee has atm.
Oh and I forgot who mentioned it, but the person who said why not just make it spoc rules once you get to the finals/semi's. To that I say most of the really really good players don't use them anyway so that rule doesn't really need to exist. I wonder why they are the best players.... maybe its cause they spend more time practicing CORE skill, than running around on floats camping at tournaments. Just a thought.
This just brought up a new way to look at it my head. What is better for NEW players? The thing melee REALLY needs to survive. I think if some one does start practicing hard and gets good enough to get through his 1st or even maybe 2nd round in a bracket then takes r1 off some one good cause they play a little abnormally well and the other guy maybe plays kinda bad or SD's or something, they shouldn't get DEMOLISHED r2 on some stupid stage they've never played before dying to like the screen moving or something, they are just gonna go to themselves.. wow they really play that stage? Or they could be getting ***** on a neutral brutally by some one who brings out their true skill in r2 and puts the scrub in their place. Then if the scrub is really some one who wants to get good at the game he will be awe inspired by your skill and combos and want to get better at the game. Instead of a new IC's player or something getting hit by like 4 lava to knee combos.
New IC"s Scrub talking to his group of friends when he gets home, "Yo I managed to beat scar r1 with some good cg combos and he sd'ed a few times." His friends "goood **** then what happened? " "Oh he picked brinstar and I my nana kept getting murdered by the lava and every time I hit it I got triple kneed out of the lava. Oh and one stock i got hit by the lava like 8 times then it spiked me i've never seen that before in my life. " His friends, "wow thats so stupid lets just play us tournaments are dumb. "
OR
" YO GUYS I TOOK A MATCH OFF SCAR." his friends " niiice man. " "So how'ed you end up losing the set " IC"S scrub " he gave me the BUSINESS twice with craaaazy combos I saw on his combo vid. I had fun tho." His friends " LOL hahahahaha Maybe I should go and feel these combos first hand . "
obviuosly this is a completey fictional story not to be picked apart and multiquoted 800 x, nothing based off what would happen from a new ic's scrub vs scar but just to get u thinkin which ruleset is better for new melee players?
Oh and I forgot who mentioned it, but the person who said why not just make it spoc rules once you get to the finals/semi's. To that I say most of the really really good players don't use them anyway so that rule doesn't really need to exist. I wonder why they are the best players.... maybe its cause they spend more time practicing CORE skill, than running around on floats camping at tournaments. Just a thought.
This just brought up a new way to look at it my head. What is better for NEW players? The thing melee REALLY needs to survive. I think if some one does start practicing hard and gets good enough to get through his 1st or even maybe 2nd round in a bracket then takes r1 off some one good cause they play a little abnormally well and the other guy maybe plays kinda bad or SD's or something, they shouldn't get DEMOLISHED r2 on some stupid stage they've never played before dying to like the screen moving or something, they are just gonna go to themselves.. wow they really play that stage? Or they could be getting ***** on a neutral brutally by some one who brings out their true skill in r2 and puts the scrub in their place. Then if the scrub is really some one who wants to get good at the game he will be awe inspired by your skill and combos and want to get better at the game. Instead of a new IC's player or something getting hit by like 4 lava to knee combos.
New IC"s Scrub talking to his group of friends when he gets home, "Yo I managed to beat scar r1 with some good cg combos and he sd'ed a few times." His friends "goood **** then what happened? " "Oh he picked brinstar and I my nana kept getting murdered by the lava and every time I hit it I got triple kneed out of the lava. Oh and one stock i got hit by the lava like 8 times then it spiked me i've never seen that before in my life. " His friends, "wow thats so stupid lets just play us tournaments are dumb. "
OR
" YO GUYS I TOOK A MATCH OFF SCAR." his friends " niiice man. " "So how'ed you end up losing the set " IC"S scrub " he gave me the BUSINESS twice with craaaazy combos I saw on his combo vid. I had fun tho." His friends " LOL hahahahaha Maybe I should go and feel these combos first hand . "
obviuosly this is a completey fictional story not to be picked apart and multiquoted 800 x, nothing based off what would happen from a new ic's scrub vs scar but just to get u thinkin which ruleset is better for new melee players?
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Yes
I achieved another goal of mine for my smash career.
"Have Cactuar reference me in a Melee debate (in a positive manner)"
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Eggm, your response is a pretty childish one.
You're basically saying "I want to push buttons SUPER fast and have tons of craaaazy combos. It's so COOL! I don't care that my character gets a natural advantage on these stages while yours gets a disadvantage, and I care even less that I'm removing the few stages that make your character decent! Who wants to play on stages that aren't flat without any changes? Psh, not me!"
Couldn't a Peach player get really excited about winning on Mute City, than say "yeah, I would have had him but that noob CPed me to FD and laser camped me with Fox. Couldn't do anything. :\"?
Play to win. If Peach is sooooooo broken on Mute City, pick her up. You will quickly find that, no, Peach isn't auto-win on Mute City. If she was, Peach wouldn't have been dominated in tournament play for the majority of Melee's top days. You're now worrying about something that never even was an issue for the actual top players and are trying to dumb down the game to fit your own personal desire and skill set.
Vidjo mained Peach, but had Fox as a secondary. This was primarily for Corneria, and Corneria alone. When it was his turn to CP, he would pick Corneria, pick Fox, then run around and laser camp. He won on Corneria a lot.
Someone that is smart enough to pick up a secondary for a stage that doesn't do well for their main, to think up new strategies, or to CP their opponent to a stage that is crappy for their character should do well in tournaments. You win a set by winning, not by doing flashy combos. A single b-throw shine is just as effective as a u-throw and four or five up-airs with Fox, and if I don't want to take either route I can run away and shoot lasers until I can up smash you once. None of the options are inherently better or worse save for whether or not they win.
If you don't like it, play another game or just play with your friends. Tell the other people that want to go to your tournaments "this is just how I want to play the game" and they don't have to come, just like people that played with items used to do. At the same time, you might want to keep in mind that Melee's dying because it is old. Going the scrub way and banning all but the stages you like is a surefire way to get rid of the possibility of any new players and to split your split community any further.
If you want to make a strong case for a single stage (like Mute City) being banned, hold a Mute City only tournament and see how it goes. Compare the results to a standard event and see what players did better/worse, what characters did better/worse, etc., etc.
If you did a Hyrule Temple only tournament (extreme example), Fox would undoubtedly be at the tippity top by lasering and running away. Can Peach dominate on Mute City, or will you find that your characters don't do as poorly as you thought? Maybe someone has a secondary that can do well on Mute City as well as Peach and you're just unaware of it. Test it out and post data to support an individual stage ban, and if people disagree you can just say "bam, check it".
Otherwise, you're just banning stuff because it's "gay".... and there's no logic or reasoning to support it, and you should expect people to get pissed at you.
You're basically saying "I want to push buttons SUPER fast and have tons of craaaazy combos. It's so COOL! I don't care that my character gets a natural advantage on these stages while yours gets a disadvantage, and I care even less that I'm removing the few stages that make your character decent! Who wants to play on stages that aren't flat without any changes? Psh, not me!"
Couldn't a Peach player get really excited about winning on Mute City, than say "yeah, I would have had him but that noob CPed me to FD and laser camped me with Fox. Couldn't do anything. :\"?
Play to win. If Peach is sooooooo broken on Mute City, pick her up. You will quickly find that, no, Peach isn't auto-win on Mute City. If she was, Peach wouldn't have been dominated in tournament play for the majority of Melee's top days. You're now worrying about something that never even was an issue for the actual top players and are trying to dumb down the game to fit your own personal desire and skill set.
Vidjo mained Peach, but had Fox as a secondary. This was primarily for Corneria, and Corneria alone. When it was his turn to CP, he would pick Corneria, pick Fox, then run around and laser camp. He won on Corneria a lot.
Someone that is smart enough to pick up a secondary for a stage that doesn't do well for their main, to think up new strategies, or to CP their opponent to a stage that is crappy for their character should do well in tournaments. You win a set by winning, not by doing flashy combos. A single b-throw shine is just as effective as a u-throw and four or five up-airs with Fox, and if I don't want to take either route I can run away and shoot lasers until I can up smash you once. None of the options are inherently better or worse save for whether or not they win.
If you don't like it, play another game or just play with your friends. Tell the other people that want to go to your tournaments "this is just how I want to play the game" and they don't have to come, just like people that played with items used to do. At the same time, you might want to keep in mind that Melee's dying because it is old. Going the scrub way and banning all but the stages you like is a surefire way to get rid of the possibility of any new players and to split your split community any further.
If you want to make a strong case for a single stage (like Mute City) being banned, hold a Mute City only tournament and see how it goes. Compare the results to a standard event and see what players did better/worse, what characters did better/worse, etc., etc.
If you did a Hyrule Temple only tournament (extreme example), Fox would undoubtedly be at the tippity top by lasering and running away. Can Peach dominate on Mute City, or will you find that your characters don't do as poorly as you thought? Maybe someone has a secondary that can do well on Mute City as well as Peach and you're just unaware of it. Test it out and post data to support an individual stage ban, and if people disagree you can just say "bam, check it".
Otherwise, you're just banning stuff because it's "gay".... and there's no logic or reasoning to support it, and you should expect people to get pissed at you.
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
I asked that question~
also, regarding the new players, I personally do not care if CP stages are banned or not (although I will miss brinstar's music dearly), because I like the game in general and usually play all neutrals when I play with my friends anyway. However, I do like the reassurance of a CP stage (even though during your tourny when I counterpicked 3 times and lost on 2 of them =/) because it just might help me win the set on the 3rd round.
Newer players that CP a non neutral against someone better will usually just waste their time because their opponent will just pick a neutral and beat them or pick a non neutral as well in his favor. For example, in my ROM pool I played against pakman. He 3 stocked me on battlefield first match so i went Jungle Japes, hoping for some luck. I ended up losing anyway, but even if I did win that match he probably would have beaten me in the next one, so I was probably better off picking a neutral because then at least I would get experience against luigi on a neutral, a match up that is more likely than a luigi on japes.
btw i main puff and i secondary fox. you know, for counterpick stages.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Overswarm, the discussion isn't just to remove Mute City, it's remove a bunch of CP stages, including Corneria which sort of invalidates your whole comparison to Vidjo playing Fox on Corneria.
GOTM
Smash Champion
Without thinking about who is "right" and who is "wrong", I think this can still be fun for everyone. At least for the first tournament that is. I'm not sure about any of you but like, I think that since this is like a fresh thing, a fresh idea, it's going to be pretty fun regardless. Having new rules no matter what they are at a tournament should give at least for a day a fresh feeling about the game to all the people who enter.
And like we keep saying, it's just one tournament. The only reason a bunch of us hopped on and were like, "My tournament is now going to adopt these rules also." was because you guys sounded like little kids crying to your parents about something until you got what you wanted. You have NO SUPERIORITY when it comes to tournaments, HANDS DOWN, unless you're running it.
Honestly, if you guys care this much about how these tournaments are ran, how about you offer a hand once in a while AT THE TOURNAMENT, because there are plenty more things that take away from the excitement of a smash tournament, i.e. playing until 3am just to finish singles.
Come and just play Smash, like seriously. It's not that bad, even for those who look to counter picks for everything, it's still not that bad. Give it one god **** chance before you guys start sounding like Inui, because you're almost at that point. You guys really do sound ******** arguing against this **** like your whole life depends on it. Also, just to use Tec0 as an example, when he said that he didn't complain until he found out that more tournaments were considering adopting these rules, please know that I didn't consider adopting these rules until I heard people complaining.
I think another debate that should arise after this just for the sake of argument as well as the fact that it would be pretty interesting is this: "What makes a player better than another? His/her ability to read their opponent, excel with their character technically, and the time that they have put in to study what works and what doesn't, or is it the players ability to practice things such as stages that better suit their character, as well as adapt to ones that don't, and who have also tried to study and practice all the ways in which he can take advantage his/her opponents who may or may not have put the time in to do the same."
And like we keep saying, it's just one tournament. The only reason a bunch of us hopped on and were like, "My tournament is now going to adopt these rules also." was because you guys sounded like little kids crying to your parents about something until you got what you wanted. You have NO SUPERIORITY when it comes to tournaments, HANDS DOWN, unless you're running it.
Honestly, if you guys care this much about how these tournaments are ran, how about you offer a hand once in a while AT THE TOURNAMENT, because there are plenty more things that take away from the excitement of a smash tournament, i.e. playing until 3am just to finish singles.
Come and just play Smash, like seriously. It's not that bad, even for those who look to counter picks for everything, it's still not that bad. Give it one god **** chance before you guys start sounding like Inui, because you're almost at that point. You guys really do sound ******** arguing against this **** like your whole life depends on it. Also, just to use Tec0 as an example, when he said that he didn't complain until he found out that more tournaments were considering adopting these rules, please know that I didn't consider adopting these rules until I heard people complaining.
I think another debate that should arise after this just for the sake of argument as well as the fact that it would be pretty interesting is this: "What makes a player better than another? His/her ability to read their opponent, excel with their character technically, and the time that they have put in to study what works and what doesn't, or is it the players ability to practice things such as stages that better suit their character, as well as adapt to ones that don't, and who have also tried to study and practice all the ways in which he can take advantage his/her opponents who may or may not have put the time in to do the same."
CanISmash
Smash Lord
we got scar Nd eggm .. known to have cp trouble .then gotm plus chibo who have been to 1 tourney a year arguing .for change . .. the games been fine. no ones being childish ur forcing rules dowh our throats. boycott are about as unchildish as it gets. we need new tos or alus tourneys will be the only thing holding tristate melee together
Inui
Banned via Warnings
lol
I barely attend Melee tournaments, so I probably don't matter, but I'd prefer to keep the counterpicks in.
GOTM
Smash Champion
CanISmash seriously, what are you talking about? I have been to about 3 tournaments in 2009, as well as like 15 in 2008. I was ranked #7 in PA in Melee. Where are you getting any of your information from? I have been "inactive" from maybe about last November until like a month ago, but during that "inactive" time I made it out to SPOC to team with JFox and enter singles, play occasionally with good players, as well as attend crew fests and things of the sort.
Plus has Melee really changed much in this recent timespan we are mentioning? No, it has not. So seriously I have no idea where the **** you're getting your information from, at all.
If ****ing Azen came in here offering his opinion would you say it was moot because he hasn't been going to tournaments recently? I know I'm not nearly as talented but using your logic you never brought up my skill level so that point is very comparable.
edit: also, there is no need to abbreviate a 3 letter word, ever.
Some ninja posts came in before mine so I had to grab the quote.
Also, Inui, I think the Kanye thing would be better with just one Kanye pic. It just looks better imo.
I will bet you that most of the people arguing on the "ban meta knight" argument in brawl don't play meta either. Doesn't make their points any less valid.
Also, Inui, I think the Kanye thing would be better with just one Kanye pic. It just looks better imo.
CanISmash
Smash Lord
umm exaggeration . u guys are no where near as active as others and pop up saying yay new rules . Wtf pakman.. they don't play mk but they experience him... efff it lets make melee 5 stocks 2 rounds.. ya know new rules more fun better competition
Na, M.Go got this. Jiggs is better than Peach on Mute anyway.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
One tourney a year lmao.
Ok, so I was a tad inactive for maybe a couple months, but that's because there was no local Melee tournaments I was willing to travel to at the time. I went to the last SPOC, then a lil break cause there wasn't anything, and just recently I went to SNES and GOTM's Tournament. Man I've probably hosted more Melee tournaments than you've attended. Either way, most of us still have intelligent conversation to add, and I don't need you to determine if I'm qualified or not to argue for this, and I'm sure not going to try and pass judgement on other players. Remember, we're on a public forum in a public thread discussing with everyone. Even further I'm a common TO in the area, Nd the TOs are who set the rules for the tournament, we're a vital part of the debate.
Also, this thread and debate is SO much better than any kind of ******** power-ranking-meta-knight-banning-coaching-tripping-camping drama bull**** the Brawl community has to put up with.
Ok, so I was a tad inactive for maybe a couple months, but that's because there was no local Melee tournaments I was willing to travel to at the time. I went to the last SPOC, then a lil break cause there wasn't anything, and just recently I went to SNES and GOTM's Tournament. Man I've probably hosted more Melee tournaments than you've attended. Either way, most of us still have intelligent conversation to add, and I don't need you to determine if I'm qualified or not to argue for this, and I'm sure not going to try and pass judgement on other players. Remember, we're on a public forum in a public thread discussing with everyone. Even further I'm a common TO in the area, Nd the TOs are who set the rules for the tournament, we're a vital part of the debate.
Also, this thread and debate is SO much better than any kind of ******** power-ranking-meta-knight-banning-coaching-tripping-camping drama bull**** the Brawl community has to put up with.
EmuKiller
Smash Ace
lmao! get ***** CANISMASH!
hahaha great post inui
hahaha great post inui
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
**** all da bull****.........
If I had the resources for the research I'd bet all the money in the world that in tournament the difference between the jiggs/peach win ratio on this stage relative to jiggs/peach win ratio on any other stage is astronomical. whether its banned or not mute city deserves to be center stage(lawl see what i did ther?) in the ruleset convo.(i honestly dunno how it outlived some of our late stages like peaches castle, mkII, onnett.....
If I had the resources for the research I'd bet all the money in the world that in tournament the difference between the jiggs/peach win ratio on this stage relative to jiggs/peach win ratio on any other stage is astronomical. whether its banned or not mute city deserves to be center stage(lawl see what i did ther?) in the ruleset convo.(i honestly dunno how it outlived some of our late stages like peaches castle, mkII, onnett.....
CanISmash
Smash Lord
emu 
inui's been on ignore for like 2 years so okay?
chibo; you've hosted more tourneys than i attended?
. btw how do you guys not understand exaggeration. one is an arbitrary number for few, as a million is for a lot... in case you were wondering. TOs setting rules without players consent or input is ridiculous. I'm just going to wait for my i told you so moment and hope we can get everyone back.
inui's been on ignore for like 2 years so okay?chibo; you've hosted more tourneys than i attended?
. btw how do you guys not understand exaggeration. one is an arbitrary number for few, as a million is for a lot... in case you were wondering. TOs setting rules without players consent or input is ridiculous. I'm just going to wait for my i told you so moment and hope we can get everyone back.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
As you mentioned, exaggeration. However I actually would not be surprised one bit if this was true. And I even mean just Melee tournies. If you counted Brawl ones I've hosted as well, then lol.chibo; you've hosted more tourneys than i attended?
Exaggeration or not, pointing out specific people in that fashion when there are plenty of others you could target as well (or the smart thing to do would just be refer to inactive people as a group, not naming people).
Players not letting TOs have even a single chance to test new rules is ridiculous. TOs are TOs for a reason, and players should have trust in them. We're not talking about your random IchigoFalco forum user running a tournament for the first time, the TOs in this thread as part of the discussion have been TOs (and tourney attendees) for years and if they feel it might (we aren't saying it definitely will, but it deserves a chance) be beneficial to the community, then it is up to them to try it out in a tournament since they are the ones that control the tournaments.
pockyD
Smash Legend
i think out of everyone that's posted so far, pakman should be the only one allowed to keep posting
and i'd bet on mango > armada in a full set too
and i'd bet on mango > armada in a full set too
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I'm not making a comparison. I'm showing that a good player adapted to the CP stages available. Despite being way better with Peach, he acknowledged that Fox on Corneria was a better option and practiced it, and he ended up winning out more often than not on that stage against Marth mains.
My emphasis was on Mute City as that was Eggm's stage example.
CanISmash
Smash Lord
i live in newyork. i been playing this game at tourneys before bum ever even stepped foot in web2zone, so no. i started when jman was losing to wes.
you guys are the only inactive members in the tristate supporting this. its not like theres overwhelming support its about split right now which is how the community goes.
rules are fine, and if the rules made sense people would be more than open to test it out, but to just completely throw away something we've been doing for 8 years and expect people to say, yeah sure why not... that makes sense to you? lets test items, or fd only, or fox banned by the same logic of entertainment and spirit of the game.
pockyD
Smash Legend
seriously, at least ACKNOWLEDGE this post before claiming the current ruleset is best merely because it's already the status quo
EmuKiller
Smash Ace
TOs are TOs for a reason...except I'll never respect you as a TO chibo, nor would i EVER trust you as a TO.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
lol someone still butthurt about money back 2009 aka Cot4
pakman's post is THIS awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x1KcMUBfO8
pakman's post is THIS awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x1KcMUBfO8
GOTM
Smash Champion
then how are you still bad?
CanISmash
Smash Lord
mm 20 dollars and you never post again?
i'll literally take the train wherever like right now dude you're like 30 minutes away. and we can do all neutrals darling.
^ thats a crazy wild statement by the way i held in laughter when you said 7 best in pa.
i played peach and i didn't really know advance techniques. that and though i was excited to go to smash tourneys i was playing halo 2 the night before instead.
i'll literally take the train wherever like right now dude you're like 30 minutes away. and we can do all neutrals darling.
^ thats a crazy wild statement by the way i held in laughter when you said 7 best in pa.
i played peach and i didn't really know advance techniques. that and though i was excited to go to smash tourneys i was playing halo 2 the night before instead.
Scar
#HarveyDent
ruleset for spoc IX
Eggm
Smash Hero
Overswarm, your response is a pretty childish one.
You're basically saying "I want I beat multiple players that were way better than me simply by counterpicking properly and knowing the stage. I don't care that most of the money I made from Melee wasn't from doing well in tournaments, but doing crazy MMs on odd stages or 2:1 odds if we played three CP-style stages. .Who wants to play on stages that make the better person win the majority of the time.
Couldn't a marth player get really depressed about losing on r1 after traveling and paying money , than say "yeah, I already lost this set to Jiggs player X or Peach player Y cause I have no chance in r3 on some gay counterpick where they are like 90% win rate vs marth. :\"? Kinda sucks I gotta lose first round or pickup characters I don't like just cause I SD'ed in r1 and lost the entire set immediatley cause certain chars have nearly unbeatable matchups on certain stages.
Play to win. If fox is sooooooo broken on Neturals, pick him up. You will quickly find that, no, Fox isn't auto-win on Neutrals. If He was, fox would have been won a major tournament in the past 6 months (probably more but too lazy to look it up). You're now worrying about something that might take away your ability to make money vs people your not as good against and make them mad for you rown enjoyment.
If you don't like it, don't attend my tournament and go back to brawl threads. I will Tell them now you don't have to worry about *******s who camp on japes and green greens without any regard to how anyone feels about it cause its in the rules that some group of "highly respected smashers" decided. "this is just how I want to play the game" and they don't have to come, just like people that played with items used to do. At the same time, you might want to keep in mind that Melee's growing again with a sudden surge of new brawl players switching or just new players all together. Going the scrub way winning sets you shouldn't and making new players really hate the game even more but doing campy stuff on dumb stages will not help the game at all or the spirit of any new players trying to get into it.
Otherwise, you're just trying to keep stuff from getting banned because I like being "gay".... and there's no logic or reasoning to support it, and you shouldn't experiment and try to take that away from me with your own tournament. Expect pansy players who rely on CP stages to get pissed at you.
You made that way too easy for me overswarm. That was mostly your post with some quotes i got from some of your previous quotes. Its easy to use personal bias and say thats why he wants what he wants. I wasn't doing that before this post above until you did, because I thought we could look past any personal bias people might have based on their style or characters and really debate this with good points like pakman did. But apparently we can't. So there you go. What you threw at me right back at you.
Your so scared you might lose the ability to win against people who are better than you and that u might have to pick up a diff char that you can't stand that we are trying this out at our OWN tournaments that aren't even in your area....
GOTM
Smash Champion
you'd beat me. i stopped playing for a while. but before that i woulda done it in a hearbeat. whats crazy wild? i WAS 7th best in pa. WAS being the key word. if you had been playing that long and go to school at temple that would mean you would have been eligible for pa power rankings. but your not on them, nor do i think you have ever been on ny power rankings either?
and im not 30 mins away. im at work in king of prussia. good try though.
and you playing peach and not really knowing advanced techniques, how does that mean you werent bad?
im not being mean just serious
edit: lol at you saying MM right away. nothing about my post was saying i was better than you, it was saying if you've been playing THAT long and still arent ranked/placing at tourneys then wtf. dont use that as an argument if i cant say im allowed to pass judgement based on the criteria that ive hosted tournies and been to plenty of them. your being hypocritical
CanISmash
Smash Lord
ny was really good and better than me. me rolling, and playing peach without knowing anything... dont you think it kind of says I WAS bad and it took some extra time to progress. I dont care about "was" anywho or what you "were"
I'm not the best, but I'm not bad, you are. k, thanks, bye.
Scar
#HarveyDent
tl;dr the rest of ur post but i think this is the dumbest thing i have ever read tbh
if a character has natural advantages on neutral stages... like what does that even mean? it just means that the character is better than the others on the stages that we called "NEUTRAL."
plus everyone is so shortsighted that they don't realize that ok you lost round 1 because THE NEUTRALS ARE SOOO BAD FOR MY CHARACTER then you win on your stupid stage, and god forbid you're playing spammer then you get ***** on floats
like it goes both ways, don't talk about character advantages and stages making matchups manageable, the argument is complete trash assuming everyone counterpicks.
also lol overswarm is in favor of cp stages
GOTM
Smash Champion
lol at you not getting my point at all.
but w/e. im done arguing. rules are staying so i guess i have no reason to argue anyway.
edit: canismash 2v2 basketball MM. my teammate is terrv, LOLOLOL
but w/e. im done arguing. rules are staying so i guess i have no reason to argue anyway.
edit: canismash 2v2 basketball MM. my teammate is terrv, LOLOLOL
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I got $30 on GOTM and TerrV
Scar
#HarveyDent
also just to say this again
tournaments are going to have whatever rules they choose to adopt, so here are the scenarios
A) i do SPOC Stage System, everyone else does old school tourney rules
---everyone goes to every tournament because SPOC is the ****
B) some TOs adopt SSS and some do not
---few players don't go to SSS tournaments, fewer players quit altogether (mostly whiny babies anyways), and all players attend tournaments with traditional stage rules
C) all tristate TOs adopt SSS and it becomes tournament standard,
---few players stop going to tournaments
but there is no scenario d where
D) the community is divided, some TOs accept SSS and some reject it
---only the players who like counterpick stages attend tournaments that include them and only players who realize that they are stupid in nature go to SSS tournaments
that would be a divide and that's not going to happen.
any ruleset like this is not going to DIVIDE the community, at worst it's going to remove very few players
tournaments are going to have whatever rules they choose to adopt, so here are the scenarios
A) i do SPOC Stage System, everyone else does old school tourney rules
---everyone goes to every tournament because SPOC is the ****
B) some TOs adopt SSS and some do not
---few players don't go to SSS tournaments, fewer players quit altogether (mostly whiny babies anyways), and all players attend tournaments with traditional stage rules
C) all tristate TOs adopt SSS and it becomes tournament standard,
---few players stop going to tournaments
but there is no scenario d where
D) the community is divided, some TOs accept SSS and some reject it
---only the players who like counterpick stages attend tournaments that include them and only players who realize that they are stupid in nature go to SSS tournaments
that would be a divide and that's not going to happen.
GOTM
Smash Champion
SSS = super silent spectre.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I'm gonna be at the Temple game room later today at like 5:30 brawlin with some ppl. Wanna stop down at play a little Melee? Nothin related to all this, and not too much I guess, but I have an urge for some Melee, and since ur right there...
Scar
#HarveyDent
ps how am i known to have cp trouble
that doesn't make any sense i usually beat everyone on their counterpicks
me getting ***** on cps in recent memory include swiftbass on rainbow cruise, spammer on floats a year ago, pink shinobi on mute city -- these are the only 3 times i can even think of on which i have lost an important tournament match on a counterpick stage chosen against me
that's pretty much it
also i employed CP stages very many times to beat players better than me, most notably chudat, and you know what i think it's ******** that at least 50% of the reason i beat chu in tourney was because i said brinstar
the better player should win -- cp stages hinder that
that doesn't make any sense i usually beat everyone on their counterpicks
me getting ***** on cps in recent memory include swiftbass on rainbow cruise, spammer on floats a year ago, pink shinobi on mute city -- these are the only 3 times i can even think of on which i have lost an important tournament match on a counterpick stage chosen against me
that's pretty much it
also i employed CP stages very many times to beat players better than me, most notably chudat, and you know what i think it's ******** that at least 50% of the reason i beat chu in tourney was because i said brinstar
the better player should win -- cp stages hinder that
GOTM
Smash Champion
yeah i beat scar like 100% of the time in friendlies on japes.
LOLOL
LOLOL
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Weren't you the better player by having a good CP stage? If Chu Dat had a good Fox or Jiggs or something for Brinstar it wouldn't have ended that way for you. Similar to how a Fox player being CPed by a Marth to FD could say "ICs" if they wanted to switch it up.
I beat Scar on Rainbow Cruise and regularly **** him always. I should've gotten 6th at Genesis, what an easy bracket, MIRITE?!?!?!?