Megaman Zero Mafia/Newbie 21! Game Over. Mafia Wins!

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I grow weary of this. Vote: Joker.

Have fun. I'm out.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

"Let's kill the active ones!" lol no.

I believe this was you? Why yes it was!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so here are my thoughts on the players so far. It's a combination of advice and reads:

1. LoliLovesRain: You need to participate more. I understand it's not easy to obtain reads like that [especially in one of your first games] but sitting around twiddling thumbs won't get things done either. And it will often make you look suspicious when you visit the thread as discussion is going on and you just don't post anything about it. If you start actively taking part in the discussions you will often find it easier to form an opinion on a player, which is what this game is all about! You should probably read this very post carefully and see whether you find something to disagree with - disagreement is what breeds healthy discussion and I'm sure you will find *something* in there.

2. Ori_bro: I'm glad you started to post more stuff but I'd also appreciate if you took stronger stances soon. Do you think town had good chances to win if everybody would be like you and said "I don't have anybody who is too suspicious"? It's not a surprise that the game's activity isn't as good as it could be if you don't contribute anything to a healthy discussion. Saying "I don't find anybody suspicious" is counterproductive in many ways as it 1.) doesn't allow other players to add their opinions on it 2.) doesn't give other players an idea who could possibly be a good lynch and it 3.) actively makes it harder to lynch people because you don't seem to be willing to commit to a lynch. I understand that it's not easy earlier on but remember this: it's better to say something wrong [because the ICs can help you and you can improve that way] than to say nothing and never give us a chance to help you improve. So I ask you again: who do you think would make a good lynch right now?

3.) BadWolf: You, sir, need to work a bit on your attitude. Not every time you have two votes on you you have to give up and think you're about to get lynched. You did a good job at defending against Rake so I don't see why a second vote would suddenly put you into a "lynch me idc anymore"-mood. You did similarly in G3S #2 and it hurt your game there. Learn from your mistake and start growing a thicker skin. You should also go into offense mode a bit more, now that pressure is letting off. Even your vote against PJB is made from a defensive position.

My read: BadWolf is not scum at this point. "Over-defensivness" is a very generic accusation that is not only too vague to be taken serious [why shouldn't he be defensive when people push him? How defensive is 'too defensive', what's scummy about being defensive?!?] but is traditionally often made by scumbags because it requires no further backing up and many people are prone to believe it because they are told that being defensive is equal to being scummy. Use your own brains and start questioning whether that's actually the case or not!

4. PrivateJoker-Brown: You're suspicious in my book. Not only is your argument against Badwolf pretty weak but the way you make your points shows no intention of giving him a chance for a proper response. You are in no way looking for a constructive solution to this discussion and you don't acknowledge BWs points even when they are legitimate - that tells me that your intention is not to understand what BW is trying to accomplish but that you're looking for a way to make him look like the bad guy. A townie has no reason to do this so for now I'm going to assume that you are not town. If you *are* town, take this as a piece of advice and work on the way you approach a one on one discussion and start thinking about what a townie actually hopes to gain from such a discussion. I doubt you've been doing that, no matter what alignment you are in this game.

Vote PrivateJoker-Brown

5.) BSP: You're more thorough than Ori_bro but my points are the same - read the paragraph I directed at him and try to do as I tell you. You're on a good way and can become a valuable player in this game once you make yourself a stronger presence in this game.

Those are my thoughts on newbie players, my advice and my reads on them. I don't really need to give any advice to Orb, Joey or Kary and they're all null-reads for me at this point.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Joker, you're reaching. A lot! I honestly want you dead for it. Re-think your 262 before I tell you how wrong you are and how dead I really want you to be right now.

@Joey: Do you think Joker-B is trying to paint Badwolf as scum?

ok, so 7.4% of rake's posts are him pressuring you.

whereas roughly 90% (I'm not gonna do the math) of your posts are you responding to pressure that you're under just to stay alive. When Kary asked you who you thought we should be looking at, you responded with something to the effect of "Rake, except I don't actually think so." Then went back to defending yourself when you only have 2 votes on you. You maybe wanna help us find scum instead?

still @Joey: What do you think of this^ post of his?

Yeah I am, but the whole thing I think is that Rake put out this ****ty case which I destroyed and I'm still being looked at. This doesn't make me happy.

Don't worry, I'm looking at you for something completely unrelated to Rake's case.

you don't acknowledge BWs points even when they are legitimate

@Gheb can you point me to BW's points and explain why they are legitimate?

I don't really need to give any advice to Orb, Joey or Kary and they're all null-reads for me at this point.

Also, I find it hilarious that Loli has me as a town-lean and Gheb has me as null


IC style stuff:

"Over-defensivness" is a very generic accusation that is not only too vague to be taken serious [why shouldn't he be defensive when people push him? How defensive is 'too defensive'...
Use your own brains and start questioning whether that's actually the case or not!

Try and ask yourself why that player is being defensive- are they naturally like that? Do they have something to hide? But don't just stick with the first explanation you come up with.

aggravation (null tell)

debateable

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Don't worry, I'm looking at you for something completely unrelated to Rake's case.

Ok thats all right. I'll answer any questions happily.

 

[Orboknown]

Reading up now, but also doing school work.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ok thats all right. I'll answer any questions happily.

What's your pro-town motivation for this statement?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb can you point me to BW's points and explain why they are legitimate?

No.

 

[Dooms]

@Joey: Do you think Joker-B is trying to paint Badwolf as scum?

Yes

still @Joey: What do you think of this^ post of his?

Don't like it. I don't see the problem with 90% of his posts being responses to pressure when literally every time he's been in the thread except once or twice are times that he's being pressured. In general this accusation is crap, and he's definitely trying to make BadWolf seem more scummy than he really is.

 

[Dooms]

Ok thats all right. I'll answer any questions happily.

Top three scum picks?

 

[Orboknown]

reading through this on and off, through page four. Like BSP/Joey/slightly like Joker. kary can be town for now. Loli null, same with gheb.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

4. PrivateJoker-Brown: You're suspicious in my book. Not only is your argument against Badwolf pretty weak but the way you make your points shows no intention of giving him a chance for a proper response. You are in no way looking for a constructive solution to this discussion and you don't acknowledge BWs points even when they are legitimate - that tells me that your intention is not to understand what BW is trying to accomplish but that you're looking for a way to make him look like the bad guy. A townie has no reason to do this so for now I'm going to assume that you are not town. If you *are* town, take this as a piece of advice and work on the way you approach a one on one discussion and start thinking about what a townie actually hopes to gain from such a discussion. I doubt you've been doing that, no matter what alignment you are in this game.

Vote PrivateJoker-Brown

I never said I wasn't going to allow Badwolf to respond, I just don't think he's going to. Especially not now that you've helped him move attention onto me instead. (which I'm fine with) You claim he has legitimate points, yet you can't point to any of them. How does that make me the bad guy for not acknowledging what clearly isn't there?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Don't like it. I don't see the problem with 90% of his posts being responses to pressure when literally every time he's been in the thread except once or twice are times that he's being pressured. In general this accusation is crap, and he's definitely trying to make BadWolf seem more scummy than he really is.

You honestly think I'm just way out of line for thinking there's something suspicious about his response to people asking for reads being "Rake (the guy who posted a case on him), but not really (cuz I have no evidence)"? And now his only other action has been an OMGUS vote on me (ya know, the other guy pressuring him)?

I mean come on, gimme a break. We're about 2 days away from the lynch deadline and nobody has been posting until now. I don't think looking at the circumstances under which someone actually makes posts is such an unreasonable thing to do. You and Gheb are getting bent out of shape for nothing.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Just FYI for anyone who maybe wants to grill me on anything today, I'm gonna be gone for the rest of the day. Promise that I'll get to whatever by tomorrow, maybe even late tonight.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You claim he has legitimate points, yet you can't point to any of them.

I *can*, but I don't see the point of it. Nobody other than you has issues with his points.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Okay! I'll try my best then.

I would have put BW as scum just because of how he mentioned how this is the first time he's gotten town which is jokers point on BW as well;however, I would not vote him on it since it would be reaching imo. Aside from that BW hasn't said anything out of the ordinary and has not really been given the chance to actively hunt scum since Rake and now Joker were both on him. I'm at this moment okay with BW based off of his responses to joker. He is not someone I would want dead.

I don't really care too much for Joker but i'm still leaving him as null like i said before.

My thoughts haven't changed much although i'm starting to not like joker as much based off of how he was attacking BW. I wouldn't mind hearing more from Joker aside from his views of BW since i know what he thinks of BW.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I wouldn't mind hearing more from Joker aside from his views of BW since i know what he thinks of BW.

This is a good point and I agree that Joker should start looking elsewhere for the moment. Some of his scumvibes may come from his tunneling.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

What's your pro-town motivation for this statement?

What do you mean?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Don't worry, I'm looking at you for something completely unrelated to Rake's case.

Ok thats all right. I'll answer any questions happily.

What's your pro-town motivation for this statement?

What do you mean?

My point is that your statement doesn't do anything.

It is basically you saying you're fine with being looked at, and with answering questions, but those should be a given for a townie. And you don't bother to ask what I'm looking at you for, so why respond?

So I'm asking you what your train of thought was in making this statement?
And I'm also asking how that train of thought fits with you trying to help town?


You should also answer this to the best of your ability:

Top three scum picks?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

So I'm asking you what your train of thought was in making this statement?
And I'm also asking how that train of thought fits with you trying to help town?

I was trying to be a little sarcastic in the fact that I've been looked at for the past couple of days for ****ty reasons.

You should also answer this to the best of your ability:

I'll out later tonight I have to reread, and right now I'm busy with Big Brother.

 

[BSP]

Ok gheb, you wanted some possible lynch targets from me, so here's what I think so far:

I would consider Badwolf on account of his reactions to Rake's tunneling and his attitude. I don't think it's a strong case, but if we really want to avoid no lynch, it's what I'd go with at this point.

You could take Badwolf's responses to whether or not he's town as forced (like in this post here. What was the point of that), and I'm having trouble figuring out the pro-town incentive for him responding the way he did. I think he could've done better in dealing with the loaded questions without creating as much doubt. He says he walked into them for ****s and giggles, but it's making it harder for me to read him.

I can agree to the sentiments that he got pretty defensive and seemingly worried fairly quickly.

On a different note, Masq, I disagree with this post here..

I think BW's reaction is something worth looking at. I'm surprised you jumped out at him so harshly for trying to make something out of what we have so far.

And you said something about looking into something that may yield more information here. Do you have anything on what that might be? Aside from Rake's push, I've just seen usual questioning. Anything catch your eye?

@Gheb

4. PrivateJoker-Brown: You're suspicious in my book. Not only is your argument against Badwolf pretty weak but the way you make your points shows no intention of giving him a chance for a proper response. You are in no way looking for a constructive solution to this discussion and you don't acknowledge BWs points even when they are legitimate - that tells me that your intention is not to understand what BW is trying to accomplish but that you're looking for a way to make him look like the bad guy. A townie has no reason to do this so for now I'm going to assume that you are not town. If you *are* town, take this as a piece of advice and work on the way you approach a one on one discussion and start thinking about what a townie actually hopes to gain from such a discussion. I doubt you've been doing that, no matter what alignment you are in this game.

If we're looking for possible lynch targets, aren't we trying to make them look bad if we want everyone to vote with us?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

You know what? **** it. I have my vote placed and that's where it's staying, to hell with reads.

 

[BSP]

^Like that. I'm not sure what the point of that was.

 

[Dooms]

...

I want Joker and BadWolf gone lol.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

^Like that. I'm not sure what the point of that was.

That seems like BadWolf being BadWolf

@Badwolf: You need to chill a bit. You can leave your vote where it is but why do you want to keep it on Joker. Was there something Joker did to you other than tunnel you? Was there anything in what he said that made you think scum or do you believe he just is not helpful to town be it scum or not? I am asking you these seeing as how you said F it to the read list.

I personally do not like how Joker is playing simply because i do not feel it helps town;however, neither does BadWolfs F it attitude.

I am on this one agreeing with Masq wrt joker and bw gone for the reason i stated above about how i don't think it helps town.

Badwolf if you could maybe....stop being so meh? You have time to go and re-read and look at what others have said and make a case if you want but please don't just f it all

 

[Ori_bro]

2. Ori_bro: I'm glad you started to post more stuff but I'd also appreciate if you took stronger stances soon. Do you think town had good chances to win if everybody would be like you and said "I don't have anybody who is too suspicious"? It's not a surprise that the game's activity isn't as good as it could be if you don't contribute anything to a healthy discussion. Saying "I don't find anybody suspicious" is counterproductive in many ways as it 1.) doesn't allow other players to add their opinions on it 2.) doesn't give other players an idea who could possibly be a good lynch and it 3.) actively makes it harder to lynch people because you don't seem to be willing to commit to a lynch. I understand that it's not easy earlier on but remember this: it's better to say something wrong [because the ICs can help you and you can improve that way] than to say nothing and never give us a chance to help you improve. So I ask you again: who do you think would make a good lynch right now?

I recognize each of the points you brought up. I'm trying to boost my activity and start my deeper looking into more people. To answer your question, right now the only reasonable lynch targets right now are BW and PJB. BW's posts as of late have not helped at all. He is lashing out at anyone who mentions him and that can be interpreted as scum like behaviors. PJB has been posting content, but lately he has been slowly going away from my initial town read.

...

I want Joker and BadWolf gone lol.

I agree, right now I'm having a hard time deciding which of these 2 will get my voice.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

If we kill him and he flips town you can kill me toMorrow.

 

[Ori_bro]

Thats very ballsy of you BW.

@MOD request vote count.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

If we kill him and he flips town you can kill me toMorrow.

That's not a ballsy way of playing its just bad. I can not tell if either of you are scummy per se but I believe that the way you are both playing is not helpful to town.

No matter what he would flip I would still look into you badwolf because your playstyle is not helping town. I can give all the different scenarios but I feel like someone would call it WIFOM. So I'm just going to say that if he flips town I won't necessarily Lynch you the next day because you said to but I would Lynch you if you didn't start becoming more helpful.

With that said what if he flips scum? What do you think we should do with you then? How do you know people won't Lynch you first?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

...

I want Joker and BadWolf gone lol.

What what what?! Wait a minute here, you want me to die because I caught onto BW being full of **** before you?

Seems legit?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If we kill him and he flips town you can kill me toMorrow.

Wow.

You're that confident in Joker-B scum? Because otherwise, as a good townie, you really shouldn't be offering yourself up for the lynch tomorrow.

I only ask because you didn't seem that confident to me in this post:

You know what? **** it. I have my vote placed and that's where it's staying, to hell with reads.

And because I'm pretty surprised you don't have any other reads. I'm not expecting diamonds in that department, I'd just like to know what you think.

With that said what if he flips scum? What do you think we should do with you then? How do you know people won't Lynch you first?

Do you think it's likely PJB and Badwolf are mafia partners?
Do you think either of them have scummy intent?


Also @Gheb: I'm surprised you have all three of myself, Joey and Rake/Orbo as null. Is it just too early for solid reads in your opinion? Which of the three do you find the most suspicious?

 

[LoliLovesRain]

What what what?! Wait a minute here, you want me to die because I caught onto BW being full of **** before you?

Seems legit?

....How is you saying this helping us at all? o.O I don't think he wants you gone because you caught onto bw being "full of ****" but because you and bw are both anti-town with your posts. Scum/anti town either way both are bad and should be eliminated imo.

What did you think about BWs post wrt if you flip town he will let himself get lynched?
Do you still think he is scummy? Have you been looking at others to find other scum as well?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

....How is you saying this helping us at all? o.O I don't think he wants you gone because you caught onto bw being "full of ****" but because you and bw are both anti-town with your posts. Scum/anti town either way both are bad and should be eliminated imo.

What did you think about BWs post wrt if you flip town he will let himself get lynched?
Do you still think he is scummy? Have you been looking at others to find other scum as well?

I'm saying that I'm hunting scum, and BW isn't, he's just mad. There's a HUGE difference between Badwolf and I. My push on Badwolf has shown you all how full of **** he is. He's clearly the scummiest behaving person at this point (am I really alone in thinking this?), and I think he's just mad that he's been caught.

I think Badwolf knows he's gonna be a lynch target, if not today, then soon. He's just trying to get you guys to kill me first. He might be the redirector, and he wants to have a chance to use his power to help his team. That's all speculation, obviously. I think he's just saying whatever he thinks will keep him alive, which is all he's done all game.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

@Kary: It was one of my potential scenarios i had when i noticed BW saying he would lynch himself tomorrow if joker was town. Seeing as how scum know scum (though i believed this would be called wifom>_>) plus if joker is town it could have just been bad play on BWs part. This is where i look for more evidence to suggest scum partners/1scum1town/2townies.

one or the other could be scum for different reasons. So could the both of them. I don't like how either of them are posting though. They are both not looking elsewhere and are so focused on each other so it's hard for me to tell if they're being scum or not. If they both do not look else where it does not help me figure out what their intentions are.

I was waiting for an answer from Joker wrt other scum reads and yet he did not answer it at all which is odd. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though and wait for more responses from him.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

darn that ninja xD thanks Joker.

I understand what you think of badwolf we all understand what you think of badwolf. We have time left but not that much time so I want to hear what your reads on OTHER people are because if you get lynched and turn out to be town you then can NOT post us with your reads on other people so this gives us a way to look at what you thought of others and I would really like to hear it. If you don't have any that's fine just say so but what are the actions you are taking in order to hunt for other scum?
The same goes for Badwolf

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Umm, why would I look elsewhere? The lynch deadline is tomorrow, and you guys seem to think I'm crazy for thinking Badwolf is scum. Badwolf is clearly not trying to help the town, all he's doing is pointing his fingers back at the people who are suspicious of him, and he's hiding. Yet somehow, I'm the bad guy for thinking that's scummy? If you guys were actually doing anything, I'd be happy to look somewhere else if it'd get yall off my back. However, we don't have a lot of time for that anymore. Badwolf is my scum pick, so of course I'm trying to push his lynch. Should I try to lynch null/town people instead? That's dumb.

 

[Dooms]

What what what?! Wait a minute here, you want me to die because I caught onto BW being full of **** before you?

Seems legit?

Your posts were reaching beyond compare, and I honestly wouldn't mind either of you going because I figure that this is a scum v town situation. I could see either of you being the scum.

Also, I thought I said this, but BadWolf may change his mindset after a day. You're going to stay this arrogant for the rest of the game, and it comes across as really scummy based on the way you're reaching and trying to exaggerate all of your evidence in order to get a lynch going.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

I'm telling you to look elsewhere because if you get lynched today which is highly likely then you would have contributed nothing other than badwolf as scum which if he isnt scum then it DIDNT HELP! >_> I am not asking you to lynch null/town people instead of badwolf i'm asking if you can look at other potential scum so that if you get lynched today you would have contributed more than just Badwolf being scummy for you.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Ok, town reads. I suppose I can do that

Lolilovesrain
I think you're probably town, but you're being kinda sheepy. You're waiting for the facts to make an action, so for now, I'm gonna lean Town on you.
- Town lean

Ori
I dunno where the suspicions on you came from. I have you as Null
- Null

Badwolf
I'm just gonna say "duh" and move on
-scum

Masquerain
Not sure what to make of what you're doing. So far it just seems like you're calling for the lynch of anyone who does anything. You're getting on my case an awful lot for pursuing my reads. If you don't like my methods, then do better. I'm hunting scum here.
- Null with a hint of scum

Orboknown
Haven't seen **** from Orbo, but I've seen enough from Rake to call this slot Town for now. Rake's a sneaky guy though, so who knows where this could go.
- Town

BSP
BSP is a really cool guy. He hunts for scum, and doesn't afraid of anything!
- Town

Kary
I like Kary's questions. He makes it hard for people to tell where he's going with them, but he's clearly getting reactions from people that help us get reads.
-Town

Gheb
I'm inclined to not like you, but I think it's just cuz you voted me I don't see a whole lot of town intent from you aside from the fact that you get people talking. Like others, I find it a little hard to read beyond the advice and actually make something out of your play. It's sparse.
- Null, with a hint of town

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm telling you to look elsewhere because if you get lynched today which is highly likely then you would have contributed nothing other than badwolf as scum which if he isnt scum then it DIDNT HELP! >_> I am not asking you to lynch null/town people instead of badwolf i'm asking if you can look at other potential scum so that if you get lynched today you would have contributed more than just Badwolf being scummy for you.

I've posted waaaay more than just my push on Badwolf. What about you guys? You get Nightkilled, and all you've ****ing done is say you think me and badwolf are fighting with each other and you think one of us might be scum. The amount of content I've posted OUTSIDE of my Badwolf push is still more than half the players in this game.

I fail to see how me pursuing my reads makes me look so suspicious. I'm honestly baffled.

And I aint getting lynched today.