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Megaman Mains - What do you feel your weakness is?

Conda

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Whenever you main a character, you remain aware that your character has a weakness. What do you feel yours is as megaman?

I used to feel that having a lot of projectiles was going to make reflector characters dangerous, but then I realised it's not really a huge problem once you think about it and play a bunch.

The idea of reflecting an fsmash has, in my experience, caused my enemies to over-use reflectors against megaman. But really, there's not a lot of reward for focusing on reflectors against a good megaman.

Since megaman's projectiles are mostly mid-range, you really don't have to worry about reflects at long-range distances. This is huge! You can long-range reflect his crash bomb and sawblade, but they'll fizzle away on their way back to megaman because they have a short range! Thus, reflect is mostly safe for megaman. Same goes for a well-spaced distant fsmash - if it gets reflected, it'll disappear before it hits megaman. You can roll/shield by the time your stuff is reflected back at you as they're all slow-moving, if it doesn't happen to disappear before it hits you.

So really the only 'real' reflector threat to megaman are mid-range reflects in the heat of battle, and that is a very risky position for people to use reflectors. Miss a reflect, and megaman is close enough to come in and punish. It's generally uncomfortable to use reflectors on reaction in mid/close range combat.



Also - he has SO many projectiles, and so many directions to toss them at you, so trying to reflect things can become a huge burden. And most of them are weak pokey projectiles (except for his fsmash). This means that sure, you can try and reflect all of megaman's stuff, but you're gonna spend a LOT of mental power and time using your reflector, which limits your options a bunch throughout the fight.



It's super easy to bait reflects as megaman if your opponent is trying to reflect your stuff, and then come in and punish with something else. Sawblade -> jab -> side b -> jab is super annoying as the animation is basically the same but timings are all different and your opponent will just get super frustrated if they have to figure out which one to reflect, and when to some reflecting. And megaman can continue walking forward while swapping between using a sawblade/crashbomb projectile and then baiting with a jab.


A reflector might get a kill against a megaman foolishly using his fsmash, but you don't need to use fsmash as megaman if you don't want to, so don't risk it if they are in a position to reflect it. Even if they don't have a reflector, you can do fine without using fsmash or other heavy projectiles. No big deal. His melee tools are great at applying pressure (<3 dtilt pokes). He still has disjointed good-range aerials and mobile ground attacks. His jab isn't really reflect-worthy, so it's usually safe to use even against reflector opponents. He's a great melee fighter - if an opponent forces him to not use projectiles, I think he'll still be fine.

Anyways, I've spoken enough about reflectors haha, what do you feel your weaknesses are as megaman?
 
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Yeezy

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reflectors aren't good against crash bombs and jabs and megaman's crouch puts him under fox/falco lasers so I've never really been that worried about reflectors. In addition to that you can mix up your camping game with Rush and angled metal blades. People have consistently had a hard time trying to play to their character's strengths against my megaman because he has so many options that he can continue to set the tempo for the match and force opponents into his projectile/grab-into-aerials game.

I think his hardest matchups are characters that can outcamp/rush him while simultaneously maintaining a strong air game, the first character that comes to mind being Sheik. Characters that can't be ledgeguarded very easily are also a pain, as ledgeguarding is a huge source of killpower from Megaman (once again Sheik, also Lucario and Greninja)
 
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AdaptiveTrigger

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Only played one Samus with Mega Man and it was in a laggy environment so I'm not so sure if this is a legitimate weakness, but characters with powerful projectiles that can overpower and outpriotize Mega Man's mid range projectiles might be a problem in the long run. I need to practice the match up more to be sure though.

Mega Man's up close game is somewhat lackluster in that his only real option is grabbing (at least it is a good option). Everything else at close range is either very slow, very punishable, or both.

Some projectiles are somewhat situational (Leaf Shield, I'm looking at you) so Mega Man's best tools differ between match ups.

Mega Man's dash attack near the edge won't have all its hits connect as the opponent will fall out before the last hit connects. This is punishable, however, most opponents don't realize this and I end up punishing them with a slide instead. Near the edge, I try to use slide instead of dash attack against aware opponents.

When people play my Mega Man, they get surprised at how ineffective reflectors are against Mega Man since, as you said earlier, Mega Man's projectiles are best used at mid range so punishing reflectors is pretty easy.
 
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Greward

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Reflectors are annoying cause you can't use fsmash that much, but they dont counter Mega Man that hard.
I have the most problem against fast characters, specially the aerial movement ones, like Jump Shulk, Palutena or Yoshi. Mega Man also needs to grab a lot, so any anti grab mechanics aka Luma are quite annoying.
 

fromundaman

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Honestly... It's very hard to answer this because it seems like there are ways to mitigate all of Megaman's weaknesses.

-Hard to kill: Not a problem. Combo into a kill move, punish, or keep safely racking damage until Bthrow kills. Or gimp. Or chase off the top.
-Mediocre OoS options against opponents behind you too small to get hit by all the SH Bair hits: **** it, OoS Rush. Situation is now reset.
-Reflectors: Okay, have a crash bomb. Please reflect that; I have so many setups with crash bombs on me.
-Hard to gimp characters: Well okay, allow me to delve into my vast ledge trap options.
-Projectiles that out-prioritize ours: Shoot a crash bomb then wait and see what happens. You have time to block if they shot through it at a long range.

The only things truly hurting him it seems are characters that can outzone him when they catch the saw blade (But even that is manageable; rush down and play off of the fact they can no longer use normals until they drop the blade) and Nayru's Love.

Someone give me a way around that move because it beats both our projectiles and our normals while being safe on block.
 

Z1GMA

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Our weakness is fast characters that operate just outside our Grab Range.
At this range, Mega Man needs to re-space himself in some way, as he doesn't have that many options.
 

ChopperDave

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Our weakness is fast characters that operate just outside our Grab Range.
At this range, Mega Man needs to re-space himself in some way, as he doesn't have that many options.
Yeah, I'd agree with this. I often find myself using Mega Man almost as a grappler -- people have a really hard time avoiding MM's grabs, particularly when he has Leaf Shield up. (Just because Leaf Shield grab is predictable doesn't make it easy to counter.) And he has a lot of good pressure options out of a throw. So characters who can zone outside of MM's throw range and/or hit him while he's throwing (*cough* Luma) are tougher to deal with.

Similarly, I have trouble with characters with strong aerial approaches. MM doesn't have a ton of good, safe anti-air options-- it can be easy to jump over his lemons and punish them, and diagonally thrown Metal Blade and Air Shooter, while good, has some end lag that is easily punishable if you whiff. (Danger Wrap mitigates this weakness considerably, if you have the option to take it.)

For these reasons I'm not looking forward to encountering Jigglypuff players when C-stick becomes available. Wall of Pain is going to be a ***** to play against, I think.
 

Karonax

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The biggest weakness I see in Megaman are 3ds controls.
Precisely this... the frequency in which the game misreads a diagonal input is a bit stifling for my tastes.

This is the only Smash game that frequently reads my attempt to do an up-special while moving towards the stage and somehow reads it as a side-special, sending my Crash Bomb spitting self to my doom. Same issue with throwing diagonal Metal Blades... this control hiccup happens way too often and never occurred on a Gamecube paddle in Melee/Brawl, I can only guess it's an issue with how the circle-pad reads inputs.
 
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Lufos

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Im going to put my thoughts in here as well.

When I play megaman (Which I do... A lot...) I feel that the lag in for glory is my biggest weakness. Sure, the 3ds controls are pretty bad and such, but the lag! Often I'm not even able to rush coil out of jab combos, and my angled saw blades turn into leaf shields or crash bombs (very rarely happens when I play my friends). For me, even the smallest lag in for glory totally ruins megaman as a character for me :/... Lately I'm just feeling sick of it and have been playing a lot more charizard (with a lot greater success).

Anyone else feeling this?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE megaman and he works perfectly for me in local matches.
 

Fenrir VII

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I turn from a pretty good player to absolute trash when you add a few ms of input lag.

Mega Man is actually surprisingly twitchy character, with spot timing on punishes and such, so if what I see vs what I can react to is skewed, I just suck and have to resort to camping, unfortunately.

It also doesn't help because the only chars I tend to have issues with (the fast zoning style chars), are just BETTER with lag. Heck, charge shots from Samus/Lucario/etc will never land in an offline match, but have like a 50% hit rate online. unfortunate


All that said, the online of this game is really, really fun, and I'm actually really impressed with my connections with 80% of the playerbase.
 

Lufos

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I turn from a pretty good player to absolute trash when you add a few ms of input lag.

Mega Man is actually surprisingly twitchy character, with spot timing on punishes and such, so if what I see vs what I can react to is skewed, I just suck and have to resort to camping, unfortunately.

It also doesn't help because the only chars I tend to have issues with (the fast zoning style chars), are just BETTER with lag. Heck, charge shots from Samus/Lucario/etc will never land in an offline match, but have like a 50% hit rate online. unfortunate


All that said, the online of this game is really, really fun, and I'm actually really impressed with my connections with 80% of the playerbase.
What you said is 100% spot on for me.

Now for some more relevant weakness that actually has to do with gameplay. Strong aerial approaches are especially hard for me to deal with, like someone else said in here. Lately, when I have been playing some better opponents, I feel that getting the kill is really hard... I know diagonal blade combos into utilt and that throwing them out of the stage lets you easily edge guard, but for some reason actually getting that grab and hitting that blade has been hard for me vs better opponents.
 

ChopperDave

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What you said is 100% spot on for me.

Now for some more relevant weakness that actually has to do with gameplay. Strong aerial approaches are especially hard for me to deal with, like someone else said in here. Lately, when I have been playing some better opponents, I feel that getting the kill is really hard... I know diagonal blade combos into utilt and that throwing them out of the stage lets you easily edge guard, but for some reason actually getting that grab and hitting that blade has been hard for me vs better opponents.
I think the thing is that you just have to be patient and not fish too hard for kills. If you keep racking up the damage with your pellets, Metal Blades, Air Shooter Lead Shield, etc., your opponent will eventually make a mistake that you can punish for the KO.

With the Metal Blade -> Utilt combo, for example, I don't straight up fish for it. Instead, I do the thing where you full hop, toss MB down, and pick it up as you land. If my opponent does nothing, hey, I have a MB in my hands, which gives me some nice approach mix-ups. However, if my opponent messes up a dashed attack or grab and eats the MB I just tossed down, I'll combo into utilt.

Also, if you want to throw your opponent off stage, Leaf Shield is a really good way to get that done. Just because a LS-to-throw combo is somewhat predictable doesn't make it easy for opponents to guard against.
 

ADAPT Chance

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Going to have to agree with iiGGy, our greatest weakness right now is the 3DS controls mostly the circle pad.
 

PeachPlumPear

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I try too hard to gimp with dair and end up fast falling to my death.

I also usually down/up smash instead of the tilts.
 

Lufos

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I think the thing is that you just have to be patient and not fish too hard for kills. If you keep racking up the damage with your pellets, Metal Blades, Air Shooter Lead Shield, etc., your opponent will eventually make a mistake that you can punish for the KO.

With the Metal Blade -> Utilt combo, for example, I don't straight up fish for it. Instead, I do the thing where you full hop, toss MB down, and pick it up as you land. If my opponent does nothing, hey, I have a MB in my hands, which gives me some nice approach mix-ups. However, if my opponent messes up a dashed attack or grab and eats the MB I just tossed down, I'll combo into utilt.

Also, if you want to throw your opponent off stage, Leaf Shield is a really good way to get that done. Just because a LS-to-throw combo is somewhat predictable doesn't make it easy for opponents to guard against.
Thanks for the advice man! I guess I'm a bit too impatient...

I try too hard to gimp with dair and end up fast falling to my death.

I also usually down/up smash instead of the tilts.

This happens a lot for me as well, the smashes only really happen in For Glory when it lags though.
 

Jackaraia

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Yoshi with any move that uses his feet.
Little Mac, when they know how to play him right. (That no knockback thing is really powerful)
 

SSGuy

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I struggle with pressure from below. I don't have many great aerial options under me. I either leaf shield or Dair but I feel the best thing to do is retreat to a neutral game.
 

ChopperDave

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I think I'm going to go ahead and disagree with the OP. Reflectors just suck.

The loss of Fsmash is hugely felt for me. It's one of his best kill moves and a great edgeguard tool. And I think his fully charged fsmash at max range is the only smash attack he really has that doesn't leave us wide open for a punish. We don't have any other smash attacks that we can just throw out willy nilly, like Little Mac's and Mario's dsmashs. Reflectors take that away from us.

It's not like reflectors make a match unwinnable. We have other advantages against some characters with reflectors, and we can use the mind games to our advantage. I find that some reflectors (e.g. Zelda's, R.O.B.'s, Falco's) are worse for us than others (e.g. Pit's, Fox's, Doc's). But not being able to use fsmash takes away one of our best kill options, which sucks. I think I consistently have the most trouble beating characters with reflectors.
 
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MarioFireRed

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Zoning/Reflectors characters, particularly any of the former who can range pressure better than Mega Man.
 

Dyz

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Theres a lot of post here, but as a Megaman player, i feel like one of my greatest weakness is againts a good Rushdown, i fought a Captain Falcon for a few games and the guy would just rush trough all of my attacks, when i see my projectiles dont do anything, i go a bit more offensive, using grabs and Fair to push them back, then begin using my buster shots to get some space and damage, but out of all my matches againts good Captains i always lose D:
 

Doomedo

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I have trouble finishing people off. I can usually harass with projectiles until 170+, but it's hard for me to get the Up-Tilt, Bair, or any of the finishers as people expect it once I shift my playstyle to go for the kill.
 

andilex

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on for glory yes, i have alot of trouble getting the kill as well, and once people start to catch on they just start to run away, knowing i cant get the kill.
 

Tino

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Well to me, my one weakness that gets to me quite often is having the Leaf Shield on when launched off stage and attempting to recover, which lead to an easy KO.
 

KurashiDragon

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I can see why a few people are saying reflectors are the bane of megaman but honestly, I just don't think that. As projectiley as Megaman seems to be, he can play up close with lost of tricks and strong options. It's not fun when your f-smash is reflected but at the same time that's probably about the only move that's a negative when facing a reflect character. (Even Metal blades still disrupt your opponent's movement and put you back in a semi-neutral position) No, I feel like the main weakness of Megaman is not reflect characters or the 3ds controls, (It's really a weakness for everyone ya know) it's that he's stupidly easy to gimp. Megaman's recovery is.... ok. It can get the job done but it's fairly obvious where your gonna end up and you cant act out of it until the apex of the jump (I could be wrong but I've tested this myself and I just cant react out of anything other than that.) and you're very vulnerable while your still jumping leaving you open. Not only that but his recovery doesn't do much for horizontal distance so if you somehow vi wrong and wind up somewhat away and below the stage, you likely wont be making it back. This is probably the only thing holding me back from actually maining megaman.(He's the strongest second I have in terms of consistency though) I really do like megaman but I absolutely despise trying to make it back to the stage with him.
 
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Conda

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When recovering as megaman we have to remember to up b first and then doublejump - if you get hit you still have your up b back and your double jump is still unused.
 
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ChopperDave

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When recovering as megaman we have to remember to up b first and then doublejump - if you get hit you still have your up b back and your double jump is still unused.
Not sure if this is a great idea. Rush quickly shoots you up high, making it good for avoiding dunks and other gimp attacks. Mega Man has some pretty good recovery mix ups, because you can either take advantage of his weight to quickly fast fall to ledge or Rush onto the stage and cover your landing with an aerial. Rushing first makes you more predictable.

The only time I'd recommend Rushing first is if it looks like your opponent is going deep for a gimp.
When this happens I Iike to surprise them by hitting UpB into Leaf Shield and either going for the ledge or attempting to footstool them. I've gimped more a few would-be gimpers this way.

I think Mega Man's recovery isn't all that bad-- he's a lot less predictable than many other characters. You really want to be vectoring up at all times, though, and avoid getting hit by attacks with high horizontal knock back like Mario's dsmash.

And stay the **** away from Jungle Japes.
 

KurashiDragon

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Why is Jungle Japes even a thing? -_- It and brinstar have no buisness being legal.

I never thought to Rush first and save the double jump. That would certainly make his recovery slightly less predictable. Imma try that out for myself.
 

Kiyosuki

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Definitely agree with 3DS controls.

When that bair is being thrown out with more control than it is now when the wii u version comes out it's gonna be pretty nice.
 

Sinz

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My biggest problem is not knowing what percentages I'm safe to actually hit my opponent without being punished with dtilt or uptilt. It feels like until they are at 60% or so those two moves just get me into more trouble even if I hit them. Then there is the whole issue of Dair having years of lag too. :(
 

Yink

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Using the 3DS in general. I always get nervous to throw metal blades diagonally down and left/right for fear I'll pull out leaf shield (trust me, it happens often.) I also can't stand not being able to pivot smash consistently, because I think Mega's pivot fsmash could be useful. I can pivot grab and b-reverse, but not pivot smash.
 

Diamond Octobot

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I just have trouble with his range imo. I mean, missing my Fair/Bair is really annoying.
Don't get it wrong, Metal Blades are wonderful, Leaf Shield can travel a long distance and his Buster shots and tilts have a good reach (Utilt can still hit airborne players) but missing with my close range weapons makes it hard to keep pressuring my opponent.
 

Doval

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Mega Man's weakness is that he has to wait for the opponent to screw up. Lemons don't combo or trap from a distance, f-air and b-air are unsafe, d-tilt and dash attack are unsafe, Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier are too slow to start up and make it blatantly obvious you want to grab. D-smash and Up tilt have a ton of recovery so you can only throw them out when you're really sure they'll hit.

Between lemons, neutral B and forward B he has plenty of tools to try to force the opponent to make a mistake, but otherwise he simply can't approach.
 

Fenrir VII

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Mega Man's weakness is that he has to wait for the opponent to screw up. Lemons don't combo or trap from a distance, f-air and b-air are unsafe, d-tilt and dash attack are unsafe, Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier are too slow to start up and make it blatantly obvious you want to grab. D-smash and Up tilt have a ton of recovery so you can only throw them out when you're really sure they'll hit.

Between lemons, neutral B and forward B he has plenty of tools to try to force the opponent to make a mistake, but otherwise he simply can't approach.
But... You never HAVE to approach. If you shield pressure them, they have to do something... And we can punish anything they do on reaction. Jump? MM loves punishing jumps. Roll? Worst case is a reset, best case is a grab or u/dsmash. Unshield or spot dodge? Situation doesn't change.

You call it a mistake, but the fact is, in many matchups, MM is very good at forcing his opponents into undesirable situations and punishing them HARD on reaction/guess. And all of that is remarkably safe to do. Also fair, bair, and dair are safe on shield with proper spacing. Dtilt and dash attack are both crossups on shield, so they're safer than they have any reason to be.
 

Doval

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But... You never HAVE to approach. If you shield pressure them, they have to do something... And we can punish anything they do on reaction. Jump? MM loves punishing jumps. Roll? Worst case is a reset, best case is a grab or u/dsmash. Unshield or spot dodge? Situation doesn't change.

You call it a mistake, but the fact is, in many matchups, MM is very good at forcing his opponents into undesirable situations and punishing them HARD on reaction/guess. And all of that is remarkably safe to do. Also fair, bair, and dair are safe on shield with proper spacing. Dtilt and dash attack are both crossups on shield, so they're safer than they have any reason to be.
I wouldn't assume that f-air/b-air/d-air or that a d-tilt or dash attack crossup is safe. Dropping a shield only takes 7 frames, all three of those aerials have over 22 frames of landing lag. If they perfect shield, they don't suffer shield dropping lag. Plenty of characters have up smashes that cover both sides or Up-Bs that come out quick and can be reversed. Other projectile characters can force a stalemate, quick enough characters like Little Mac/Greninja/Sheik can make reaction unreliable or risky. There's also the fact that any time they roll past a projectile you'll usually be forced to yield ground.

I didn't mean any of what I said as a condemnation. I think Mega Man's solid. But top players don't make mistakes easily and if your opponent pulls ahead you'll be in a very difficult position.
 

Locke 06

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I wouldn't assume that f-air/b-air/d-air or that a d-tilt or dash attack crossup is safe. Dropping a shield only takes 7 frames, all three of those aerials have over 22 frames of landing lag. If they perfect shield, they don't suffer shield dropping lag. Plenty of characters have up smashes that cover both sides or Up-Bs that come out quick and can be reversed. Other projectile characters can force a stalemate, quick enough characters like Little Mac/Greninja/Sheik can make reaction unreliable or risky. There's also the fact that any time they roll past a projectile you'll usually be forced to yield ground.

I didn't mean any of what I said as a condemnation. I think Mega Man's solid. But top players don't make mistakes easily and if your opponent pulls ahead you'll be in a very difficult position.
Where'd you get the 7 frames of shield drop? I've been looking for that number for a while (hoping to figure out the frames for shield drop-->utilt). Also, no approach is safe from perfect shield. But nobody's frame perfect. Also, Greninja/Sheik can't punish like Mega Man (Little Mac can, but he has other problems).

FAir has the advantage of also being a cross up or out of shield grab range in front of the opponent. It's not completely safe, but it's a pretty good option. I think the "DAir safe" is how you can double jump DAir and land with no lag. This makes it safer than most DAirs in the game when used that way. (BAir I've never thought was safe on shield, but if someone proves me wrong, I'll use it.)

MM's approach is decent for a character that's not fast. MB's can be used as a hit-confirm type play that leads to kills with the utilt or lead to getting your opponent offstage where Mega Man is quite good. CB can force defensive play, and pellets can be used to close the gap on projectile users. His grab game is quite good with dthrow follow ups or bthrow for %/positioning.
 

Fenrir VII

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Dair autocancels (after 2nd jump) and bair outranges most aerials and even smash attacks in the game. Learn the spacing on it and it's darn near unpunishable on most of the cast
 
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