Mega Man 1.0.4 Patch Notes Discovery Thread - New Frame Data (Buffs!)

[---]

Stuff all from 1.0.3 (omega pac maze unless specified)
Knockback/KO%
- Dair has 2 different hitboxes with different KO%'s. I think we all knew this, but dismissed the lack of KO% data. If anyone wants old KO% data that doesn't matter, speak up.
- There is something very fishy about Fair. I think we might have a tipper box. (Dead serious) When spacing it where Mega Man's head is to the right of the first vertical of dots on the right of Pac Maze (3d off) I can kill at 273% always and get the KO vfx at 275%. Not really any way I can prove this, but it's a very slight tipper box since inside the arc kills reliably at around 283%. I have a feeling they took this out and just buffed it because nobody cared about such a small knockback increase.
- The rest of --'s kill%'s check out.
- Getting 278% for nair hitbox kill on Wiley. They're not going to be changing a kill% by 2%, so I'm going to say no buff/nerf.

With F-Air I've noticed sometimes on the Sandbag I've gotten 9% instead of 8%, so I've figured a potential tipper, but I've not gotten it to work elsewhere so I've never said anything. Earliest KO% I'm getting with F-Air in 1.0.4 is 270%, so who knows. Probably needs more testing beyond what's needed for studying this patch.

The D-Air KO% I had before (210%) was from the end of the attack, not the start up knockback that pops the opponent up. I only took the normally off stage Meteor knockback. Test that.

Got about ~275% for N-Air on Wily Castle. I'd just say unchanged.


So my original data for B-Air and the Smashes match about up?

 

[Kiyosuki]

The lack of Rush Cancel makes me wish I had my Rush Jet...

Also seems the Down Smash is faster to execute and less lag.

Do you think so? I kinda felt like D-Smash came out faster but I didn't want to jump to conclusions.

 

[Locke 06]

I've never gotten 9%... Even on the tipper that I was getting for the knockback increase, it was consistently 8%. It's possible that the FAir could do something like 8.5% and it's grabbing the .5% from a lemon or something.

So, when we hit someone who's standing on the stage with the fist projectile, it's not a normal meteor/they get hit diagonally in a similar angle to when we hit someone with the start of the attack/gun hitbox. Do you want me to test the meteor knockback through getting them to jump and meteoring them down and up? Also, you want the start of the attack/gun hitbox kill%? I also forgot to mention that I was getting 207% for D-Air KO% on the fist (slightly different). Everything else matched up (B-Air and smashes) was correct as was everything else you had, although I didn't check partially charged smashes, because I didn't really know how much to charge (I guess I could've asked...)

Wait. I didn't test flame blast. derp. I'm getting 95-97%. It's really easy to charge this one, because I think the charge window starts super early in the animation. What I ended up doing, because I saw myself charging, was using the Speed 1/4 (L) function in training mode so that I could input Dsmash without charging.

Edit: by SH-Dair'ing to get the gun hitbox, I'm getting 167%. I'll do the meteor after I eat.

 

[---]

Got my friend to let me use his unpatched game.

Tested most everything, and honestly the only thing I think can be said is that B-Air was indeed buffed by about 5%.

Everything else was about the same as far as I could tell, not sure if my friend has a default Mii but the Kill %s were the same/off by 2%. We definitely need a better system of testing this stuff, so I apologize that my previous tests haven't been the best.

I've never gotten 9%... Even on the tipper that I was getting for the knockback increase, it was consistently 8%. It's possible that the FAir could do something like 8.5% and it's grabbing the .5% from a lemon or something.

So, when we hit someone who's standing on the stage with the fist projectile, it's not a normal meteor/they get hit diagonally in a similar angle to when we hit someone with the start of the attack/gun hitbox. Do you want me to test the meteor knockback through getting them to jump and meteoring them down and up? Also, you want the start of the attack/gun hitbox kill%? I also forgot to mention that I was getting 207% for D-Air KO% on the fist (slightly different). Everything else matched up (B-Air and smashes) was correct as was everything else you had, although I didn't check partially charged smashes, because I didn't really know how much to charge (I guess I could've asked...)

Wait. I didn't test flame blast. derp. I'm getting 95-97%. It's really easy to charge this one, because I think the charge window starts super early in the animation. What I ended up doing, because I saw myself charging, was using the Speed 1/4 (L) function in training mode so that I could input Dsmash without charging.

Edit: by SH-Dair'ing to get the gun hitbox, I'm getting 167%. I'll do the meteor after I eat.

It's only against the Sandbag I've gotten 9% with F-Air, so who knows? EDIT: Can still 9% the Sandbag.

With D-Air it probably doesn't matter much anymore, but if you think you can find a reliable kill % on a redo just let us know and we'll retest it in 1.0.4 based on how you did it.

Smashes probably warrant a redo the most, but as far as I can tell/have tested they all seem relatively the same.

 

[Locke 06]

Your smashes data, with the exception of the uncharged DSmash, all look fantastic. I easily plugged in the % below it, the % above it, and the % you got and I got the exact same results as you. Uncharged Fsmash I got your lower % (155).

Yeah, I'm thinking the BAir buff is real. I'm really curious to see lemon staling, as I think that'd be a really good way to help make Mega Man less annoying. Nobody likes 1% lemons. At that point, they're just annoying to both the opponent and Mega Man. That's weird though about the Sandbag. I can't remember seeing that, but that might be something to look into afterwards.

For the meteor effect of the DAir, I'm getting 217-219 by getting my default mii to jump up and down and trying to time it so the fist hits him at the peak of his jump. It's not perfect, but it'll do.

I'm going to download the patch now after I watch some replays that I'm going to have to say goodbye to. So long, CB-->DAir-->Utilt replay, so long 0% CB --> Stage Spike --> DAir kill replay, and so long replays of me getting wrecked by DK_Will in my first learning of the matchup.

5 minutes until patching. Speak up if you want anything else. I'm planning on doing everything that I did again for 1.0.4.

 

[Locke 06]

Unrelated to the patch, but did you know you can short hop a footstool jump? You can either hold jump and get a ton of height or "short hop" it. Very curious to see what might come out of that information because I thought we had no footstool followups due to how high we went up because of it. Turns out, I was wrong.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Um it sure seems like the dsmash startup time is less. Anybody able to confirm?

 

[Locke 06]

Dsmash looks the same to me after seeing it a billion times just now.

Also, I just realized I didn't test Danger Wrap. Sorry, everyone! ^^;

 

[---]

With testing mostly out of the way, can we get a list of what's been changed? I'll then add it to the OP in the main Patch thread. Been too busy with Knockback testing to keep an eye on everything.

 

[Locke 06]

I haven't gone through testing yet. Sorry, I've been playing doubles. XD I'll get it done tonight and post my findings. Working on lemon staling right now.

Edit: getting 9% on the sandbag. This is interesting. I like known unknowns. Much better than unknown unknowns.

 

[fromundaman]

So I've been busy preparing for an Injustice tournament I had over the weekend, and now am getting ready for another one (And a SCV one) on Saturday, so hadn't actually used my 3DS in a minute.

Now I come in here and hear that a new patch came through and we lost rush canceling?! I am so sad... So so sad.


That said if anyone forgot to test something, then I can still do so since my game is currently unpatched.

That said you have until tomorrow night; my tournament on Saturday also has Smash and so come Thursday I will start grinding on this game again (Although right now Injustice still gets most of my efforts with SCV and Smash trailing behind).

 

[Locke 06]

Lemon staling is the same. You got my hopes up for nothing, but at least I now have lemon staling data. Although I'm not completely sure I understand how the staling cue actually works (is using a move that is in the cue 3 times but hasn't been used for 6 moves the same as using a move for the 4th time in a row fresh?)

That said if anyone forgot to test something, then I can still do so since my game is currently unpatched.

If you could test Danger Wrap's KO% on a default mii in the center of Omega Pac Maze, that would be great. Otherwise, I think we've got everything. And to be honest, it doesn't really matter, because if something got a buff or a nerf, it's not like we can do anything about it. A new patch just means re-testing. Whether something got buffed or nerfed doesn't really matter to me, because there's nothing we can do about it except complain or rejoice. If something is really good, I rejoice not because it's been buffed, it's because the data shows that it is a really good move now. My 2 cents on patch notes.

Testing the rest of the stuff in bed tonight. I'll give a report probably tomorrow.

 

[HalcyonDays]

The lack of Rush Cancel makes me wish I had my Rush Jet...

Also seems the Down Smash is faster to execute and less lag.

Sorry to ask, but just to confirm, Rush Cancelling is no longer possible at all, right?

EDIT: Nevermind, after doing some research, it seems it really is gone. What a bummer.

 

[DRU192]

Don't know if this is useful or not but the bigger hitbox on Uair makes dash > short hop Uair a nice "combo" starter, I've been able to follow up with Fair but I need to experiment some more. Might be something worth looking into for you more experienced players. (Useful for punishing moves with ending lag)

EDIT: Dash > short hop > Uair > RAR Bair also works for a nice KO setup at high %

EDIT: hit box is the same, but Uair pushes opponent up less, keeping them in place a bit better.

Here's a short video showing what I mean, Uair's reduced push up could possibly allow for interesting follow ups

http://youtu.be/fDXBHfZMxxQ

How useful do you think this could be:

a) as a punish for moves with recovery lag AND

b) as an "anti air"

(I tested it on a low CPU for time and easy recording purposes)

Thoughts please

 

[ENKER]

Hmm, so Uair is now more of a combo starter. I'm cool with that!

EDIT: More for against heavy characters.

 

[Knight Dude]

EDIT: Wrong thread sorry.

 

[DRU192]

Hmm, so Uair is now more of a combo starter. I'm cool with that!

EDIT: More for against heavy characters.

definitely has that potential. I'm looking forward to testing it in the field a bit more once the WiiU version drops. Short hop > Uair > RAR Bair is nasty

 

[BearUNLV]

Even with the nerf, Mega Man is still my main.

Is it just me or does the Leaf Shield come out faster?

 

[Fenrir VII]

Buffs:
Killpower on fair and bair (Woo)
Faster leaf shield cooldown on throw
Stored landing lag from Nair after upB removed
Possibly less landing lag on fair
Possibly faster startup on dsmash

Nerfs:
Rush cancel on first frame removed
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)
Utilt sourspot damage (Are we sure about this one?)
Anything else?

Other moves unaffected. I'll let @ --- or somebody else fill in the %s here to make everything technical.

Can anybody test the fair and dsmash stuff compared to @Doval 's data?

Overall I consider this a slight buff. Rush canceling is a hard blow, but most of the chars that you absolutely need it against have been nerfed too, so it's kinda a wash. The bair Killpower is amazing, and if the fair and dsmash changes are real, that's a big change.

I'm sure we'll be finding good leaf shield stuff all over again + it's safer offstage

 

[---]

Buffs:
Killpower on fair and bair (Woo)
Faster leaf shield cooldown on throw
Stored landing lag from Nair after upB removed
Possibly less landing lag on fair
Possibly faster startup on dsmash

Nerfs:
Rush cancel on first frame removed
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)
Utilt sourspot damage (Are we sure about this one?)
Anything else?

Retesting shows that F-Air seems to be unchanged, most likely, unlike B-Air.

Pretty sure on the sourspot damage, but it's an easy test. The original was 12%, now it's 8%.

Stored Landing Lag? Could someone explain?

The frame stuff will need to be tested.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Stored Landing Lag? Could someone explain?

It was a bug with his upB in the original release.

If you upB and land, you get a large amount of landing lag. If you upB then Nair while landing, you essentially remove that lag and can instantly move.

In the original release, if you upB'd and landed with Nair, the landing lag would get stored... so next time you jumped, it would give you that lag when you landed. So if you UpB'd > nair landing, then empty SH'd, you'd get 20-something frames of landing lag for no reason.


A bit difficult to explain, but I confirmed it has been fixed, so it doesn't matter much anymore.

 

[Z1GMA]

Buffs:
Killpower on fair and bair (Woo)
Faster leaf shield cooldown on throw
Stored landing lag from Nair after upB removed
Possibly less landing lag on fair
Possibly faster startup on dsmash

Nerfs:
Rush cancel on first frame removed
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)
Utilt sourspot damage (Are we sure about this one?)
Anything else?

Other moves unaffected. I'll let @ --- or somebody else fill in the %s here to make everything technical.

Can anybody test the fair and dsmash stuff compared to @Doval 's data?

Overall I consider this a slight buff. Rush canceling is a hard blow, but most of the chars that you absolutely need it against have been nerfed too, so it's kinda a wash. The bair Killpower is amazing, and if the fair and dsmash changes are real, that's a big change.

I'm sure we'll be finding good leaf shield stuff all over again + it's safer offstage

The removal of RCO Lag is great news! Now I don't have to think of a way to get rid of it anylonger.

I feel Fair has the same landing Lag as before, because the combo Landing Fair > Grab on low %'s feels the same speedwise.

Dsmash does indeed feel faster on start-up.

EDIT*
Doesn't seem like landing with B-moves removes the RCO Lag, though :/

 

[Locke 06]

Changes found through my testing:
Uncharged fsmash does 11.5% and fully charged does 19.5%. As a result, kill% is 1% higher. Fully charged fsmash kill % doesn't seem to be affected, probably because it's not enough of a difference.

BAir is buffed to 151% for KO%. It's small, but we'll take it.

Leaf shield change (someone else can do an analysis on this move)

All phantom lag is gone (utilt off the edge and Nair canceled up-b lag).

BAir spiking is much weaker/not a viable KO option (computer at 200% only goes about 1.5 default mii heights below the edge of the stage and not very fast. If you've ever done it before, you'll notice that it is significantly different with both 1-hit and 2-hit spikes)

Rush canceling is indeed gone completely. We can still use it to escape, assuming it is still frame 1 and we have invincibility, but I will defer to someone who can get frame data. Personally, I think Rush has been nerfed to not be frame 1, but that's just my eyes and trying to get out of things like sheik's ftilts. Pending frame data, but rush canceling is out.

DJ and Up-B are restored after being grabbed out of the air and released (tested with DK's cargo hold release)

Possible buffs depending on 1.0.3 data accuracy
Sour Spot knockback increased (175%-->165%)
Dthrow up by .5% (4% --> 4.5%)

Unconfirmed hypotheses (most popular theories that could not be proven one way or another due to a lack of frame testing)

FAir landing lag decreased
DSmash activation time decreased
Rush activation time increased

Consistencies/details:
All other kill % and knockbacks are the same. (Including dtilt slide)

Lemon staling is unchanged.

Slide distance is the same (3 slides to get to the edge of the 3rd block on the right when crouching on omega mushroomy kingdom from training position) as is the range on uncharged fsmash and pellets (2 slides + 8 pellets or 9 fsmashes to get toon link out of range of pellets and uncharged fsmash respectively from training mode start positions).

Utilt auto cancel onto yoshi's island platform during its lowest tilt still exists.

FAir is unchanged. Tipper is still there. Did some quick testing and the tip results in a damage output of 8.5, which is probably rounded to 9 in the waiting room with the sandbag. Non-tipper is 8. This quite frankly makes absolutely no sense, but it's there.

Dair is unchanged. All 3 ko%'s are still the same. (You can use my ko%s in the guide)

Double Danger Wrap/Ice Slasher bug/glitch is still in. (Credit: Azazel)

Things not tested in 10.0.3 but found through my testing - @ fromundaman

Like I said earlier, don't feel like you need to test anything. What I found is what is the current toolkit with which we will be using from now on. Doesn't matter too much what the original values were.

Utilt has 3 different hits. Sweet spot (17%) sour spot (12%), and what I'd call anti-air (8%). Sour spot kills at 165% (buffed from 175% according to our previous tests, but I did not do this personally in 1.0.3. You'll know if you get a sourspot by the 12%). Anti-air kills at ~177% when hitting default mii at the apex of his jump.

Dthrow does 4.5% (9% on 2 throws in training mode). I assume this was the same in 1.0.3, but our guide has it saying 4% flat.

Pummel does 3%, fthrow kills at 297%, uthrow kills at 220%, bthrow kills at 214%, dthrow kills at use uthrow to kill (306%). (Was not tested before)


There are the results from last night's tests. If you have any questions, feel free to just ask, and I'll do my best to answer.

Edit: things to be speed tested - fair landing lag, rush activation, dsmash startup

Mega Man's lemons are untouched. #placebo - also, tell Samurai Panda and the other mods I'm sorry that we test on omega pac-maze and on default mii, since everyone else tests on Mario and I doubt they use pac-maze.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So fair killpower is not increased, and no change to dtilt killpower? utilt seems to be same as before... so that leaves my list at

Buffs:
Killpower on fair and bair (Woo)
Faster leaf shield cooldown on throw
Stored landing lag from Nair after upB removed
Possibly less landing lag on fair (to be tested)
Possibly faster startup on dsmash (to be tested)

Nerfs:
Rush cancel on first frame removed
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)
Utilt sourspot damage (Are we sure about this one?)
Anything else?

 

[Locke 06]

No speed stuff has been analyzed. Rush could still come out frame 1.

Dsmash looks the same. I have no evidence, but I did just see 1.0.3 dsmashes for a couple minutes straight and then immediately tested them in 1.0.4. If there's a difference, I didn't notice it.

Edit: my list has all of the buffs/nerfs that are noticeable/confirmed. The only speed difference I noticed and is generally accepted is the leaf shield.

 

[Fenrir VII]

No speed stuff has been analyzed. Rush could still come out frame 1.

Dsmash looks the same. I have no evidence, but I did just see 1.0.3 dsmashes for a couple minutes straight and then immediately tested them in 1.0.4. If there's a difference, I didn't notice it.

I should probably clarify the Rush statement... I'll just copy pasta from the community notes instead.
RE: fair and dsmash... *shrug idk. need somebody with a way to record frame data or side by side recording to confirm. Dsmash seems a bit better to me but it's really hard to tell (I always liked the move anyway)


Buffs:
Killpower on fair and bair (Woo)
Faster leaf shield cooldown on throw
Stored landing lag from Nair after upB removed
Possibly less landing lag on fair (to be tested)
Possibly faster startup on dsmash (to be tested)

Nerfs:
Cancelling hitstun with Rush removed
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)
Utilt sourspot damage (Are we sure about this one?)
Anything else?

 

[Locke 06]

-_- just use my post. I'll add your two speed things, but I have a strong feeling it's a placebo effect.

You're missing fsmash Nerf, utilt phantom lag, and BAir spike Nerf (more like a bug fix).

 

[Knight Dude]

Is it just me or does the Slide Kick move faster? It doesn't go much farther, I know that, but the speed feels better to me.

And Mega Man's Down-Smash feels way faster too from a couple of practice rounds I just did.

 

[Erimir]

Anybody testing customs?

I only saw someone had tested down-B variants.

 

[Knight Dude]

Anybody testing customs?

I only saw someone had tested down-B variants.

I'm using Tornado Hold and Danger Wrap. So far they don't seem too much different in terms of speed. Not faster or slower.

Uh, I'm not sure if it's a glitch, or if this was always a thing, but Palutena used her Up-Smash right before I used the Mega Upper, but I didn't flinch. I don't suppose this move has super armor on it now, right?

 

[Crescent_Sun]

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything or I would've immediately spit it out upon reading any implication that mega upper has super armor. You sure you were in the hitbox? Get someone to help test out if it has super armor. I'm going to be incredibly doubtful but hell, I'd welcome it.

 

[BBC7]

Nerfs:
Dtilt Killpower (wtf)

 

[Lavani]

Uh, I'm not sure if it's a glitch, or if this was always a thing, but Palutena used her Up-Smash right before I used the Mega Upper, but I didn't flinch. I don't suppose this move has super armor on it now, right?

Can confirm this was always a thing, and it's actually invincibility.

It's a shoryuken, of course it has startup invuln!

 

[Knight Dude]

Can confirm this was always a thing, and it's actually invincibility.

It's a shoryuken, of course it has startup invuln!

Oh, OK. I wasn't entirely sure if he always had that. I'll have to test juuuuuust to make sure later.

 

[Locke 06]

"Grabbing Megaman after he uses up B now refreshes up B"

Apparently this was fixed. I saw that this was true in 1.0.3 via the dk boards (grab after up-B to cargo hold --> release over the edge = KO). Can someone confirm? Then I'll add it to my post.

 

[Dimmy]

I feel as if the Dsmash hitboxes linger a lot longer than before.

 

[juice.Zucco]

The lack of vectoring makes megamans upsmash a decent kill move now which is nice.

 

[Azazel]

You can either downgrade or use the demo if you want to test old stuff

 

[Azazel]

Double dangerwarp and ice slasher is still in the game

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Yeah I did that once by accident? How is that replicated? The double DW that is