Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[Vipermoon]

I found a thing :3

The video says error occurred

 

[Darklink401]

The video says error occurred

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyf6evqU2GY

What happens if you click the actual link?

 

[thehard]

How does the game determine how flexibly you can DI a move?

 

[Vipermoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyf6evqU2GY

What happens if you click the actual link?

I don't know, it was on mobile. But it works on desktop.

And wow this is very interesting. Too bad I can't live without attack stick.

 

[Darklink401]

I don't know, it was on mobile. But it works on desktop.

And wow this is very interesting. Too bad I can't live without attack stick.

Seems you can also do it by simply letting go of the control stick at the right time after turning around from your run, but it allows you less control over the sticky slide.

 

[san.]

Seems you can also do it by simply letting go of the control stick at the right time after turning around from your run, but it allows you less control over the sticky slide.

C-stick momentum stop is just a variation of something that was learned in the 3DS era to around December when people saw that there was a larger boost at the edge of the stage/platform..

 

[Darklink401]

C-stick momentum stop is just a variation of something that was learned in the 3DS era to around December when people saw that there was a larger boost at the edge of the stage/platform..

It is indeed. However no one had made a video exploring just how extensive this 'variation' was, since most people just used the ledge slide for dsmashes, upsmashes, etc.

 

[flique]

Um, I'm not very good at explaining things but, I think I found something that I now do by accident. It usually happens when my opponent is near the ledge and when they do an attack. If I'm close to their hurtbox, I can jump very high, kind of like a footstool with no effect on the opponent. It started when I was training with my friend. I can't go any further with it right now because I'm on my phone. If any of you have encountered this please let me know.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Um, I'm not very good at explaining things but, I think I found something that I now do by accident. It usually happens when my opponent is near the ledge and when they do an attack. If I'm close to their hurtbox, I can jump very high, kind of like a footstool with no effect on the opponent. It started when I was training with my friend. I can't go any further with it right now because I'm on my phone. If any of you have encountered this please let me know.

It's just a footstool. Look up the tloc "tech of the week" footstool video. They explain it in there.

 

[McDizzle!]

Um, I'm not very good at explaining things but, I think I found something that I now do by accident. It usually happens when my opponent is near the ledge and when they do an attack. If I'm close to their hurtbox, I can jump very high, kind of like a footstool with no effect on the opponent. It started when I was training with my friend. I can't go any further with it right now because I'm on my phone. If any of you have encountered this please let me know.

Yeah, that's happened to me before. It's basically a phantom footstool that doesn't cause the opponent to tumble down after you jump on them.

 

[Blobface]

Does anyone have an idea of how frame advantage after a trump works? How long it is vs how quickly you trump?

 

[Epok]

http://youtu.be/jtMBrKq_iCE

Just out of curiosity, how is that different than this? Not to be a buzz killington but I'm pretty sure that this has been around for a while.

 

[Calvonta]

This has probably been asked a billion times but, has anyone ever played against CPU opposition and they literally Dash and Jab right out of their dashing animation or am I mistaken?

What's the input for that?

 

[Pikabunz]

Does anyone have an idea of how frame advantage after a trump works? How long it is vs how quickly you trump?

I think the most amount of frame advantage you can get is 27 frames. To get that you'd have to grab the ledge at the frame as they do. The least amount is probably about 4 frames. The character and where you grab the ledge from can change this a little.

 

[Yikarur]

Does anyone have an idea of how frame advantage after a trump works? How long it is vs how quickly you trump?

When you grab the ledge you are forced to hang on the ledge for 24(?) frames. This is true for trumping as well. If you hang on the ledge and your opponent grabs the ledge after you, you leave the ledge on the first frame that you could've dropped the ledge.
So assuming you hang on the ledge for a long time already and your opponent grabs the ledge later, you immediately get trumped (because the forced ledge frames are over) but they are stuck for 24 frames on the ledge getting no advantage of it.

If your opponent grabs the ledge the frame after you they can basically immediately leave the ledge the frame after you, getting much more advantage. You can calculate from there how much advantage you get. But I'm not sure how long the trumping animation is right now.

 

[Jams.]

When you grab the ledge you are forced to hang on the ledge for 24(?) frames. This is true for trumping as well. If you hang on the ledge and your opponent grabs the ledge after you, you leave the ledge on the first frame that you could've dropped the ledge.
So assuming you hang on the ledge for a long time already and your opponent grabs the ledge later, you immediately get trumped (because the forced ledge frames are over) but they are stuck for 24 frames on the ledge getting no advantage of it.

If your opponent grabs the ledge the frame after you they can basically immediately leave the ledge the frame after you, getting much more advantage. You can calculate from there how much advantage you get. But I'm not sure how long the trumping animation is right now.

Unrelated to ledge trumping, but were you correct about Yoshi's shield being frame 1?

 

[Pikabunz]

When you grab the ledge you are forced to hang on the ledge for 24(?) frames. This is true for trumping as well. If you hang on the ledge and your opponent grabs the ledge after you, you leave the ledge on the first frame that you could've dropped the ledge.
So assuming you hang on the ledge for a long time already and your opponent grabs the ledge later, you immediately get trumped (because the forced ledge frames are over) but they are stuck for 24 frames on the ledge getting no advantage of it.

If your opponent grabs the ledge the frame after you they can basically immediately leave the ledge the frame after you, getting much more advantage. You can calculate from there how much advantage you get. But I'm not sure how long the trumping animation is right now.

The trumping animation for Pikachu is 28 frames. I'm not sure if it's the same for everyone else though. Also the forced ledge hold is 20 or 22 frames for most characters. I think you get the 20 frames if you grab from above the ledge and the 22 frames is from recovering from the side or below and it also has the 2 frame ledge grab vulnerability. If you want to ledge get up or ledge drop, you have to hold the ledge for an extra 2 frames before you can leave it using those options.

 

[-Iceberg]

Does anyone know the formula for when a move will put a character into tumble?

 

[Darklink401]

http://youtu.be/jtMBrKq_iCE

Just out of curiosity, how is that different than this? Not to be a buzz killington but I'm pretty sure that this has been around for a while.

It's an extension of that, but instead of using c stick down or up, or back, you use c-stick forward, which in itself has plenty of applications not seen in that videoxD

 

[busken]

I am trying to test how fast a character can run compared to their foxtrot. Or another's character run speed compared to another character's foxtrot. Is there any reliable way to test this without the need of a capture card or something like that? I can upload to youtube via the replay system, but that's it. Anyway I can test this?

 

[Yikarur]

Unrelated to ledge trumping, but were you correct about Yoshi's shield being frame 1?

Of course

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Is there a list of Standing Hurtbox Widths for the cast?
I am doing a study involving throwing Link's bombs through opponents and a list of horizontal hurtbox sizes would be incredibly helpful.

 

[Meshima]

We found following attacks can work Landing Sync.
Falco - Nair
Robin - Uair
Roy - Fair, Bair
Wario - Nair

BTW, where can I see the list of Landing Sync ever found?
Falco and Ganon's Dair(also Jr.?), Greninja , ZSS and Peach's Nair is all?
I know every character's every air attack have possibility to work LS, but it's limited because of ECB, right?

[Edit]
Sorry, those problems were all resolved.

 

[teluoborg]

M Meshima please share your results.

 

[jmjb]

how tight is the window for a reverse Fsmash? like when you're running in one direction and then then around and reverse Fsmash. the window seems ridiculously tight and even in training mode I can only get them half the time..
how tight is this window compared to normal Fsmash? and is there any tricks to getting this more accurately?

 

[inconspikuous]

how tight is the window for a reverse Fsmash? like when you're running in one direction and then then around and reverse Fsmash. the window seems ridiculously tight and even in training mode I can only get them half the time..
how tight is this window compared to normal Fsmash? and is there any tricks to getting this more accurately?

use "smash attack = a+b" on. that way when you pivot you just press both a and b to initiate the reverse fsmash. new mechanic for smash 4 they added in a few patches back.

 

[jmjb]

use "smash attack = a+b" on. that way when you pivot you just press both a and b to initiate the reverse fsmash. new mechanic for smash 4 they added in a few patches back.

no way... LOL ima go test this right now.. if this works dude I love you

 

[Vipermoon]

I've found that I can't consistently press A and B at the same time. It all depends on my thumb position. That has to be perfect.

 

[divade]

Tried searching this page, found nothing so...
Is B-reversing wall jumps a documented tech to land back on stage? seems situationally useful.

 

[inconspikuous]

I've found that I can't consistently press A and B at the same time. It all depends on my thumb position. That has to be perfect.

yeah on regular controls it's not consistent for me so i switched Y to 'special' and that's solved it for me.

 

[Masonomace]

Tried searching this page, found nothing so...
Is B-reversing wall jumps a documented tech to land back on stage? seems situationally useful.

Only a few characters actually put good use to B-Reversing after a walljump, then you have the following characters that can walljump:
& .

There's also Wavebouncing, which is far more useful for characters such as Lucario due to his Aura Sphere charge hitbox behind him as you're wavebouncing toward the stage facing toward the blast line. Lucario also has the best walljump to boot. Then again, there's characters like Mewtwo B-Reversing or just doing a turn-around Confusion command grab after walljumping to beat out shielding near the ledge.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Only a few characters actually put good use to B-Reversing after a walljump, then you have the following characters that can walljump:
& .

There's also Wavebouncing, which is far more useful for characters such as Lucario due to his Aura Sphere charge hitbox behind him as you're wavebouncing toward the stage facing toward the blast line. Lucario also has the best walljump to boot. Then again, there's characters like Mewtwo B-Reversing or just doing a turn-around Confusion command grab after walljumping to beat out shielding near the ledge.

Not to mention B-reversing or Wavebouncing after wall-tech-jumping.
https://youtu.be/3oJfmOuSsHU?t=68

 

[divade]

Only a few characters actually put good use to B-Reversing after a walljump, then you have the following characters that can walljump:
& .

There's also Wavebouncing, which is far more useful for characters such as Lucario due to his Aura Sphere charge hitbox behind him as you're wavebouncing toward the stage facing toward the blast line. Lucario also has the best walljump to boot. Then again, there's characters like Mewtwo B-Reversing or just doing a turn-around Confusion command grab after walljumping to beat out shielding near the ledge.

I'll take that as a yes then. XD.

 

[Shape]

New tech recently discovered by lego5502 and Pacentali.
Performed similar to a shield-drop (for all you melee players out there), for those who are not familiar with the concept, you slowly push the control stick down, and during this, input b, so that you perform a down-b. It will cancel on the platform and you will drop through.
Enjoy! ;3
Discovered by Meebo, a member of WNE Smash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhgb58V3AQ

 

[Pazx]

New tech recently discovered by lego5502 and Pacentali.
Performed similar to a shield-drop (for all you melee players out there), for those who are not familiar with the concept, you slowly push the control stick down, and during this, input b, so that you perform a down-b. It will cancel on the platform and you will drop through.
Enjoy! ;3
Discovered by Meebo, a member of WNE Smash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhgb58V3AQ

I don't really see the utility, why not just drop down without pressing B?

 

[Sean de Lure]

New tech recently discovered by lego5502 and Pacentali.
Performed similar to a shield-drop (for all you melee players out there), for those who are not familiar with the concept, you slowly push the control stick down, and during this, input b, so that you perform a down-b. It will cancel on the platform and you will drop through.
Enjoy! ;3
Discovered by Meebo, a member of WNE Smash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhgb58V3AQ

One Smash posted a video detailing this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEjcrlk-u8s
it does not have to be down b, you can cancel with a or b moves, watch the video for details

I don't really see the utility, why not just drop down without pressing B?

dropping shield incurs a 7 frame penalty where you can't do anything
shield dropping bypasses this penalty, and since you cancel and are still on the platform, you save yourself 7 frames

 

[Pazx]

One Smash posted a video detailing this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEjcrlk-u8s
it does not have to be down b, you can cancel with a or b moves, watch the video for details


dropping shield incurs a 7 frame penalty where you can't do anything
shield dropping bypasses this penalty, and since you cancel and are still on the platform, you save yourself 7 frames

Ty, the one smash vid was good. I didn't realise this was a shield dorpping alternative as the ganon vid didn't show any shielding, I understand now.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

One Smash posted a video detailing this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEjcrlk-u8s
it does not have to be down b, you can cancel with a or b moves, watch the video for details


dropping shield incurs a 7 frame penalty where you can't do anything
shield dropping bypasses this penalty, and since you cancel and are still on the platform, you save yourself 7 frames

Yeah this is all old news from past games. Though they forgot to mention that it can also be used to do anything out of a run (if you're on a platform) by shielding directly out of the run, immediately dropping through the platform OoS, then cancelling the drop-through with an attack (or else not cancelling it and doing anything else).

 

[Shape]

again i didn't find this i posted it because my friend doesn't have a smashboards account. So I can't answer questions about this topic

 

[DoubleD]

Probably a lot of people here on Smashboards are familiar with the knockback formula: http://www.ssbwiki.com/knockback#Formula , however what I don't understand is, what does the resulting number tell you? Scroll up on the linked page and a chart shows that in Brawl, 186 is the knockback needed to KO from the center of Final Destination with the Sakurai angle and no DI, and i'm assuming that is true of Smash 4 thereabout. But the math doesn't seem to add up. Using Kurogane's Hammer, ( http://kuroganehammer.com/ ), I used some data to plug in some numbers for Captain falcon and for example I double checked that a dash attack at 0% on a 100 weight character would do 129 knockback. Fair enough, the brawl number could just be much smaller, however a fully charged Wario Waft connecting at 40% also on a 100 weight character (which does a lot of knockback and even KO's by a ledge) has a knockback of 165, not too much more than a single dash attack by Falcon. This is due to the BKB added at the end of the math for falcon is 90, which is added by the formula. I'm obviously missing something here, but what? Math has never been a strong subject for me, but i'm almost positive i'm doing it correctly. Without the BKB, these numbers would seem to be correct. Any help someone can give me? I'd really like to understand all of this