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Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

Was your discovery something new or real?


  • Total voters
    238

MattCon5

Smash Rookie
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Jun 24, 2014
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Can we also utilize this thread to keep a running list of what old ATs are in the game? I'm not sure if it would be better to start another thread for it, but I think it would be nice to have a list in the first post of some stickied thread that has a composite list of old and new ATs. What about glide tossing and aerial glide tossing? DACUS?
 

Life

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AGT was only a thing in PM, caused by Melee airdodge interacting with Brawl's item throw mechanics.

Glide tossing has supposedly been heavily nerfed, like dashdance levels of nerf. Only something I heard though, can't confirm.
 

Shaya

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Can we also utilize this thread to keep a running list of what old ATs are in the game? I'm not sure if it would be better to start another thread for it, but I think it would be nice to have a list in the first post of some stickied thread that has a composite list of old and new ATs. What about glide tossing and aerial glide tossing? DACUS?
If one was to be compiled I would add it to that "data" sticky. Or at the least have a directory of all such ATs and how they work (that could be in there too).
 

hichez50

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Not that hard. Shiek's Dacus couldn't be performed with c-stick in brawl.
 

Chiroz

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DACUS wasn't in the E3 Demo if that is of any help. It might still be in the final version but I doubt it would be taken out and then re-added.
 

Empyrean

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I can't seem to find any info regarding this, so I guess this is a good place to ask. How is shield stun in this game? I keep hearing reports that there is little to no shield stun.
 

JamietheAuraUser

Smash Lord
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somewhere west of Unova
I can't seem to find any info regarding this, so I guess this is a good place to ask. How is shield stun in this game? I keep hearing reports that there is little to no shield stun.
Based on tournament footage and streams that I've seen, shield-stun and shield push seem to very much be on an individual-move basis. Some attacks have practically none at all, while things like Little Mac's FSmash will shove you a whole character-length back and seemingly lock you in shield for the entire duration of the shield push. Actually, it rather seems like the amount of shield-stun directly correlates to the amount of shield push — as in, you're stuck in shield as long as you're still moving back from the hit — but I don't own the game myself, so I can't prove it.
 

InfinityCollision

Smash Lord
Joined
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1,245
Hey guys! I have some exciting info I would like to share tomorrow! It deas with a mechanic that ma or may not be known. It involves the air dodge surprisingly. I do not want to give too much away because I wil be uploading a video of it tomorrow. I think there will be some interesting ideas involving this, since each character uses this mechanic differently! Anyway,tomorrow afternoon, expect a video of this surprise! I cannot promise it will be gamebreaking, but I know someone will use it to their advantage!
Spill it or don't, but teasing like this is just stupid. You're not actually building any sort of excitement for your video.
 

Captain Norris

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Spill it or don't, but teasing like this is just stupid. You're not actually building any sort of excitement for your video.
Never said I was trying to. I am not trying to give excitement. It is easier to show than say, that is why I am not going to "spill it," otherwise I would have explained it. I am sorry you feel annoyed or whatever, but I am not trying to start something, here of all places. I don't even wnat subscribers because that will be the only video I post.
 
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JamietheAuraUser

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So this whole "Down-DI" thing that gets brought up occasionally... Do you have to be crouching for it to work? As in, is it equivalent to crouch-cancelling in Melee with slightly different exact mechanics, or can you reduce momentum by DI'ing down on any attack at any time, even if you do it as you get hit?
 

Muster

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So this whole "Down-DI" thing that gets brought up occasionally... Do you have to be crouching for it to work? As in, is it equivalent to crouch-cancelling in Melee with slightly different exact mechanics, or can you reduce momentum by DI'ing down on any attack at any time, even if you do it as you get hit?
It does not work like crouch cancelling, just as long as you hold down. I've been juggled and have used Down DI during while not touching the ground.
Edit: Link to Vectoring again, this is what was really found, and not a downward DI tech.
 
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!BSP

Banned via Warnings
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Bringing up edge slip mechanics again because they're pretty important to know. Nobody has tested them?
 

Giygacoal

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Grabs no longer have armor like in Brawl, i.e. if a player grabs and gets hit at the same time, the grab is released and damage is taken. Has happened plenty of times, so I'm pretty sure of it. Tested this in the demo.
Actually, it was never really armor, if I understand correctly. I know this from the Project M discussions. It's just a trade between a grab and a regular attack, the only difference being that in Melee the grabber doesn't take damage, and in Brawl (and PM because the designers prefer it) the grabber takes damage.
 
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Bravo

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Actually, it was never really armor, if I understand correctly. I know this from the Project M discussions. It's just a trade between a grab and a regular attack, the only difference being that in Melee the grabber doesn't take damage, and in Brawl (and PM because the designers prefer it) the grabber takes damage.
The thing is that previously the grabber was still able to throw the opponent regardless of the damage taken as consequence of the trade, unlike at Smash 4, where the grabber not only takes damage, but also loses his/her hold of the opponent.
 

Smasher89

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Thats cool, potencially making the game much more complex in how to get kills effectively.

Has anyone learned how groundrelease/airrelease works from grabs?
 

UltiMario

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Am I the only person that noticed this game has Project M ledge jumps?

Usually in Smash ledge jumping is very slow, it takes a noticeable delay before you can act out of it, and while testing ledges I noticed you can act out of your ledge jump almost immediately. The results of ledge jumping into a move are nearly identical to doing a full hop version of the move coming from the ground in terms of height and timing. From the looks of it, ledge jumping is a very viable option in this game. Villager is especially good at it, Ledge Jump Nair comes out incredibly fast and has a decent hitbox to stop people from camping right next to ledge or on platforms above it. The testing I've done so far is pretty limited but from what I can gather ledge jumps are basically on par with normal jumps in speed now.

IDK if this is worth a thread, or if someone has mentioned it in some other thread, but it's fairly notable.
 
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ParanoidDrone

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This seems like the right place to ask, apologies if it belongs somewhere else.

I can pivot cancel pretty easily, but I'm struggling to reliably get a tilt or a smash out of it. Is there anything specific that needs doing or is it just a matter of practice?

On a related note, what attacks are possible out of a pivot cancel? I've been sticking with ftilt and fsmash for simplicity.
 
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Yikarur

Smash Master
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May 29, 2007
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Germany
Not that hard. Shiek's Dacus couldn't be performed with c-stick in brawl.
This is wrong. You couldn't DACUS with "Grab" because the "Grab" Cancel Timing and the "Attack" cancel timing of the dash attack where the same and Grab had priority over attack (because grab is attack + shield)
The C-Stick has nothing to do with this.

Usually in Smash ledge jumping is very slow, it takes a noticeable delay before you can act out of it
this is only for melee. In Brawl you could act the first frame after leaving the ledge.

On a related note, what attacks are possible out of a pivot cancel? I've been sticking with ftilt and fsmash for simplicity.
You can only ftilt and fsmash and everything that is jump cancelble by inputting jump + MOVE. (Upsmash, UpB, Item Toss)
 

snaptrap

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Is it possible to turn tap jump off? I've been wondering this for a while, ever since watching the Smash 4 Invitational from TourneyLocator last week. Me and my cousin got used to turned off tap jump in Brawl, and it would be great if it returned.
 
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infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
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Toronto, Canada
Is it possible to turn tap jump off? I've been wondering this for a while, ever since watching the Smash 4 Invitational from TourneyLocator last week. Me and my cousin got used to turned off tap jump in Brawl, and it would be great if it returned.
You can't change the controls in the demo but you can in the full version of the game. This includes turning tap-jump off (thank goodness).
 
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JamietheAuraUser

Smash Lord
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somewhere west of Unova
Okay, something weird about jab locks and jab resets in this game. It appears that if you don't do the full jab lock (3 bounces + 4th hit), the opponent does not get stuck with a standing reset, and they can roll to their feet in whatever direction they want. Also, I keep finding that my opponent is forced directly into standing by about the 3rd repetition of my single jab when I'm playing as Mario. Maybe this is just a quirk of Mario's jab in particular, not really sure but definitely worth looking into.
 
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Yep, this is ledgecanceling, but it seems like smash 4 has weird mechanics when landing. Like traction is momentarily decreased. I could just be imagining it but I think I've seen quite a few posts regarding sliding around out of landing or similar things
 

Tristan_win

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After thinking about this a bit more I realize this is actually exactly like Peach instant turnip pull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqaTJXeyQZ0&list=UUkWfyqjLfHbD0Dd63G8jirA

Still neat to see other characters can abuse this though, we need to figure out what other characters can use this so this thread is a good notice showing it's not limited to just peach.

Good job.


edit; NVM your not canceling your lag. It was hard to tell at first due to the video quality

edit: I think... it's really hard to tell and I'm starting to doubt my eyes. We need a better video with you up B as soon as you can once you finish the attack.
 
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Opana

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Yep, this is ledgecanceling, but it seems like smash 4 has weird mechanics when landing. Like traction is momentarily decreased. I could just be imagining it but I think I've seen quite a few posts regarding sliding around out of landing or similar things
Yeah, I saw a user post about it by using an airdodge at the ledge. I forgot to try linking airdodges together off the ledge, and if that works it could be a great edgeguard tool for everyone, even Mega with the possibility of opening nairs or something.

I haven't browsed this forum too much though, so sorry for any repeated information.

EDIT: Yeah, out of the Demo characters I couldn't get it to work with anyone else. I did get Leaf Shield to work off the ledge too, with enough time to grab the ledge too. Also, I was able to launch a bomb off towards the stage while moving back and canceling off the ledge, but it's harder.
 
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Joined
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After thinking about this a bit more I realize this is actually exactly like Peach instant turnip pull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqaTJXeyQZ0&list=UUkWfyqjLfHbD0Dd63G8jirA

Still neat to see other characters can abuse this though, we need to figure out what other characters can use this so this thread is a good notice showing it's not limited to just peach.

Good job.
Oh ****, that looks awesome. So yeah I guess smash 4 really has revamped landing/falling momentum. I'd imagine Greninja would be able to really abuse this with the custom version of Water Shuriken that stays in place. That's the first character that comes to mind but I'm sure there are more.

It'd be nice if someone with a JP 3DS could test this out *horf horf*
 

Tristan_win

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Oh ****, that looks awesome. So yeah I guess smash 4 really has revamped landing/falling momentum. I'd imagine Greninja would be able to really abuse this with the custom version of Water Shuriken that stays in place. That's the first character that comes to mind but I'm sure there are more.

It'd be nice if someone with a JP 3DS could test this out *horf horf*
Nooo, I think I was wrong on my assessment.
 
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[spoiler

[/spoiler]
Nooo, I think I was wrong on my assessment.
Oh, well regarding the Mega Man thing, he wasn't canceling the lag from the moves, he was just making it easier to string them into each other by bypassing landing lag

Like, under "normal" circumstances, if you wanted to (try) controlling the space around the ledge with Metal Blade/Crash Bomb while jumping, you'd have to jump > special > landing lag and/or animation end > jump > repeat

But since he's sliding off the edge while executing the animation he can completely ignore the possible extra landing lag. He's not really canceling any lag or shortening the move duration, but he's still allowing himself to do something more easily

With Peach though they really are canceling the animation (lag). I have to wonder why though. It's probably restricted to specials that generate a held item. So Link might be able to do it? Then again this is a little similar to bonewalking in brawl so it might just be something exclusive to peach and her wacky vegetables

shrug
 

Opana

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I'm pretty sure there's enough time to squeeze in an aerial too, so I think someone may be able too Slide->Blade/Bomb->Aerial->Coil? Even if it does work with other characters, I feel the coil makes it more effective with MM.

I was able to slide off with Villager's Timber(1), the non-damaging seed plant, by double jumping, so I'm almost certain there are more to find. I' still curious about whether or not it's Omega Battlefield dependent too, as someone told me they couldn't pull it off in the training are with the sandbag.

Also, I'm sorry for posting a thread that largely applies to MM.
 
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Opana

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aCaptain Norris had found the Air Dodge "Dodge-slide" Mechanic.

Well, it turns out this works with my idea of repeatedly refreshing the jump/up special, meaning any character should be able to do it. I was able to air dodge a few times at the ledge and slide off, opening up many more options.
 

b2j135

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Found this while I was screwing around with MegaMan :p
Ganon is even better now lol
 
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Boy Jordan

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Thanks for the video. Hard to tell what application we can find for this. We had plenty of techniques in Melee that were preferable to this where spacing was concerned. I imagine it will be the same this time around, but it's still cool to know.
 

san.

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This was in Brawl. If you did it at the edge, you could "sticky walk" continuously and not fall off.
 

JetAsakura

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned perfect shielding yet. I don't have any videos or anything, but after perfect shielding an attack, you can immediately attack. In essence, Smash 4 has a parry system. I'm currently trying to see if you can perform any desired action after perfect shielding, such as dashing or jumping.
 
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