Huron
Smash Rookie
You didn't see Sheik crouch during the slide at all? Cause it's right there...and sorry for the low quality of the video I'm trying to get a better version as we speak.
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Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
So just getting this straight you need to hold shield for 3 frames then you can stand grab oos.
If thats the case then i think it could be usefull in some scenarios as the difference between the end lag of stand and dash grab is usually 7-8 frames. So it could shave off 4 on most of the cast and in the case of villager it could cut 11 frames of endlag.
Link of frame differences (without accounting for shield time) of standing and dash grab
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...K1dMYq24mmAitdL3jqkxMR8/edit?usp=docslist_api
Frame data from kuroganehammer.com
What do you guys think
If thats the case then i think it could be usefull in some scenarios as the difference between the end lag of stand and dash grab is usually 7-8 frames. So it could shave off 4 on most of the cast and in the case of villager it could cut 11 frames of endlag.
Link of frame differences (without accounting for shield time) of standing and dash grab
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...K1dMYq24mmAitdL3jqkxMR8/edit?usp=docslist_api
Frame data from kuroganehammer.com
What do you guys think
If you're getting a better quality version I'll wait to see that instead.
Huron
Smash Rookie
Yes, TableSalt has the video
message me asap for the sheik wavedash
Mister M
Smash Apprentice
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Hi. So I've been trying to make use of A-landing, or what ever the character wide term for 'hup cancelling' is and I heard that at low percents, it doesn't work. You receive full lag. Is that true? And if it What's the threshold. I don't have great testing conditions for these sort of things, so i'm asking for help. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wr6sk7P2Nw&feature=youtu.be
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Fanttum
Smash Cadet
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I don't see any reason why it would be any different at lower %'s.
Unless you mean full lag as normal lag. Auto canceling an aerial (A- Landing, Hup Canceling, etc.) just gives you the same landing lag as if you weren't doing an attack.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
It doesn't work with all aerials. Which character are you trying to do it with?
Mister M
Smash Apprentice
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Ness. Dair is best for him
I'm aware that you have to target the super early auto cancel windows which is easier for some characters than others. I think the best explanation for getting landing lag when attempting to 'a land' is that I simply missed the window.
I'm over it. Thanks though.
Yeah ok now that I can see it a bit better, it's definitely what @SSBU | Jams mentioned earlier http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-63#post-20706859
And as for your reply that you think you only inputted left, that can't be so because right before you land you can see the flash from the fast fall, meaning you were holding down at that point, so then if you went to move left, you probably just hit diagonally down-left then let go of the joystick, resulting in the slide. I was able to replicate the video exactly.
Huron
Smash Rookie
Thanks for your patience. Tbh I'm glad sheik doesn't have a wavedash lol, that would've been downright hellish. Hopefully this can be done with other characters...
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I'm kinda sad now tho cause then other characters might have had one too..
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
I know what you're talking about. If a character has exited hitstun recently before landing, A-landings are not possible. We don't know what this time window is, likely no longer than a full second. Let me provide an example. If I jab Kirby as Bowser with the farthest hitbox, Kirby will be airborne at the point when hitstun ends, just a few frames from landing on the ground. If Kirby attempted a Dair (or most of his aerials), you would think he can hup cancel. But in practice, he doesn't. He enters the Dair landing lag state.
This mechanic helps various moves with low knockback. Using Bowser's jab again as an example, if an opponent is mashing A after being jabbed, and they're airborne at the point hitstun ends, they'll enter a landing lag state from their aerial, even if they landed during an autocancel frame at the start of the move. The added landing lag they suffer significantly increases the potential for a followup. Projectiles and moves with low, weight based knockback also benefit greatly from this possibility when their knockback angle sends the opponent upward.
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Sonicninja115
Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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Is there a mathematical equation for Rage? In other words, if I want to test Mewtwo Uthrow KO Percents, can I find out that it kills Mario at X number, and then divide it by Y (rage number) to find out when it will kill with rage?
How does one get tilted forward attacks from t-sticking?
Sonicninja115
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I don't think you can. I looked into that and you can't tilt it by using both the c-stick and the circle pad. So unless there is some AT or minor tech I am pretty sure it isn't possible...
Well I'm swapping to tilt stick but sometimes it does angle forward tilts for me, I just can't figure out what triggers it.
I am able to do it consistently if the c-stick ftilt is buffered and I angle with the control stick.
Sonicninja115
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What do you mean buffered?
Not in front of a game rn so I'm trying to picture this in my head.
Ex, you spot dodge, input c-stick forward during the buffering window and hold up. You'll ftilt upwards.
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Oh, that's less useful then. I'm looking for being able to just ftilt recoveries and characters like Wario and Jiggs on reaction
Kofu
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Why don't you just angle your control stick and press A when they come close? It's just as doable on reaction as it is with tilt sticking.
because that makes my character walk
Kofu
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Not if you're fast enough
I figured that was the reason but isn't Bowser's walk trash so it's not like he's going far
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I want to use down angled ftilt cuz it beats every recovery snap in the game when timed properly :<
ZafKiel
Smash Apprentice
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Is is really better to use the c-stick for aerials? Since I've been learning Melee, I've completely switched over to the C-stick but is there ever really case where you would just use the control stick (other than things like fading F-airs)?
LancerStaff
Smash Hero
Robin's bronze sword aerials, namely. Even if you're holding forwards and then hit forwards on a tilt stick it'll come out as a Levin aerial.
Ryu definitely should use a C-stick for aerials, though. Tatsuing away from the opponent when you ment to Bair is dumb to say the least.
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Sonicninja115
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I personally prefer C-stick aerials for the extra control it gives, and it works great with Shulk. I also set R to jump, so I can use it easier.
Frido19
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I have been trying to figure out how to understand the knockback values of some attacks, and I've done two tests using this formula:
( ( ( ( ( p/10 + p*d/20 ) * 200/w+100 * 1.4) +18) *s) +b) *r)
p = percent of target
d= damage dealt before the attack hit
w = weight of target
s = knockback growth
b = attack's base knockback
r = ratio of rage, smash charge, crouch cancel, etc...
My 1st test was using Ryu's L.U-tilt against Mario at 0 percent with r set to 1, since I didn't feel the need to test those variables.
My result was 1711
My 2nd test was using Ryu's H.U-tilt against Mario at 0 percent with r set to 1.
This result was 1330
What I want to know is, why is the result higher for the L.U-tilt when it obviously gives off less knockback than the H.U-tilt? Am I reading the values wrong, or am I performing the equation wrong? It would be awesome if someone can provide step by step reasons as to what I did wrong.
P.S. I didn't know what other sub-forum to post this in.
( ( ( ( ( p/10 + p*d/20 ) * 200/w+100 * 1.4) +18) *s) +b) *r)
p = percent of target
d= damage dealt before the attack hit
w = weight of target
s = knockback growth
b = attack's base knockback
r = ratio of rage, smash charge, crouch cancel, etc...
My 1st test was using Ryu's L.U-tilt against Mario at 0 percent with r set to 1, since I didn't feel the need to test those variables.
My result was 1711
My 2nd test was using Ryu's H.U-tilt against Mario at 0 percent with r set to 1.
This result was 1330
What I want to know is, why is the result higher for the L.U-tilt when it obviously gives off less knockback than the H.U-tilt? Am I reading the values wrong, or am I performing the equation wrong? It would be awesome if someone can provide step by step reasons as to what I did wrong.
P.S. I didn't know what other sub-forum to post this in.
I got 36.4464 for light utilt and 90.8320 for heavy utilt.
200/w+100, I suggest 200 / (w+100) to be safe.
Also, my s was actually g/100 where g was the knockback growth.
Frido19
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I must be doing the equation wrong then. what were the steps you took?
Edit: Just realized that i forgot to divide s by 100. thanks for shining light on that.
It seems as if i am still doing something wrong, I get 35.92 for L.U-tilt and 82.6 for H.U-tilt.
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Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
So something weird happened with Ike. Under what circumstances does Ike's Quick Draw put him in free fall AFTER hitting someone with it in the air? I was certain that if Ike hits someone with QD he can always act out of it after some lag.
Well I witnessed Ike go into freefall shortly after hitting me with QD so can anyone explain?
Well I witnessed Ike go into freefall shortly after hitting me with QD so can anyone explain?
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Random4811
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Yes! A lot of them are character specific, but yes!
Frame canceling is the most popular one I can think of, Shiek has her fancy needles cancel she can do into any aerial, Cloud has his instant limit break cancel (and a real dash dance), there are more I know im forgetting, like theres a instant getup you can do from the ledge that lets marth and other characters counter immediately as a getup option
You can do any move. Even quick draw again.
Azazel
Smash Journeyman
Ness's dtilt has a big enough hitbox behind him to hit characters behind him and is very quick.
the pushback mechanic that pushes you away after land multiple hits (most notable with jabs and flamebreath) gets tricked into pushing Ness towards the opponent and even helps ness continue landing dtilts
the only utility of this catching neutral get-up (since you can position this where they get up instead ness's back) and because you link much more dtilts there's a very good chance of getting a trip. not too mention refreshing moves in general.
most characters have to even be walking into ness's back for dtilt to even connect from the back.
I was just wondering if there are other characters that can abuse this mechanic for combos (like Ness's reverse dtilt) instead of just creating space (charizards or bowsers flame breath attacks)
basically quick attacks with a hitbox behind the character that can suck opponents into itself.
the pushback mechanic that pushes you away after land multiple hits (most notable with jabs and flamebreath) gets tricked into pushing Ness towards the opponent and even helps ness continue landing dtilts
the only utility of this catching neutral get-up (since you can position this where they get up instead ness's back) and because you link much more dtilts there's a very good chance of getting a trip. not too mention refreshing moves in general.
most characters have to even be walking into ness's back for dtilt to even connect from the back.
I was just wondering if there are other characters that can abuse this mechanic for combos (like Ness's reverse dtilt) instead of just creating space (charizards or bowsers flame breath attacks)
basically quick attacks with a hitbox behind the character that can suck opponents into itself.