Maybe it's just the internet, but it saddens me...

[White_Lightning]

I agree that Wolf has attacks that are different from Fox and Falco's, but he's still a StarFox character with moves taken strictly from Fox and Falco, with different effects added to make them 'unique'. I'm still not convinced that Wolf isn't a clone, but this topic isn't about my perception of him. Would you all be happier if he were referred to as a "variation" of Fox? "Variation" and "clone"...so interchangable, those words. Wolf could be a parody of Fox for all I care, I'm still going to play as him. You guys shouldn't let other people get to you.

How do you think I felt when people bashed Luacrio for being in the game? It wasn't going to end, so I got over it. "Luacrio's a waste of space." "Lucario's such a lame addition to Pokémon." "It's just a clone-character of Mewtwo." Point was, we got Lucario. I won. I shouldn't care, so long as Lucario was in.

Now, I'm starting to see what Ookami is seeing, that Wolf has enough differences to call him his own character. BUT he still has more than enough in common with Fox to not help but see him as a clone character to some obvious extent. It works for both sides of the fence. The "Wolf is a clone" side looks at the most apparent factors to Wolf; Sakurai originated Wolf's moveset around Fox's to begin with and made changes accordingly (just like he did with Falco), the fact that Wolf was always (before Super Smash Brothers) designed to be the "Anti-Fox", and of course the Landmaster FS didn't help. The "Wolf is unique" side point out that: Wolf's attacks that were copied from Fox are different enough to be used in newer ways, his A moves are nothing like Fox's, and just because Wolf is a StarFox character doesn't automatically means he's Fox 2.0. The best you can expect is one simple agreement: Wolf in SSBB is not orginal.

"Of course if that's the case, then none of the characters in Brawl are original." I find this response to be so anal. True somewhat, but very anal. Saying that "OMG! Samus and Lucario have chargable projectiles. CLONEZ!" to support your argument that Wolf isn't a clone isn't fair. Samus and Lucario's similarities end there, with their B move. That's really all ya got to work with. You can stretch more comparisons from Wolf, Falco, and Fox, than from Samus & Lucario, or Kirby & Jigglypuff, or Link and Ike and Marth, or Zero Suit Samus and Sheik.

Despite my disagreeing with you guys on Wolf's status as a clone or not, one thing's for sure and that's I'm a Wolf supporter. I just want to get this out of the way. I like Wolf. Hell, I may LOVE Wolf in a platonic, non-bestial way. But in MY opinion, I feel Wolf is a clone of Fox, and I can see why others do, too. Wolf being in the game should be enough to "unsadden" anyone who plans on playing as him.

I've admitted several times that I don't consider Wolf his own unique character. I admit that most of his B moves are just altered versions of Fox's. Regardless, two B moves and a final smash isn't anywhere near enough to be able to say he's more of a clone than a unique character. Like you said earlier, I believe "variation" is a much better word to describe. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound like a fanboy whenever defend Wolf. In fact, I leave most of his haters and their asininity alone. It's just when they make threads for the sole purpose of calling Wolf an undeserving clone is when I feel the need to step in.

Like you said last, Wolf is in Brawl as a playable character and we should be happy about that. To me, this is really a dream come true. I remember actually having dreams about Wolf being confirmed. For the past six months, I prayed every night that Wolf and Lucario would make it into Brawl as playable characters. Brawl is going to be a huge game, and the fact that Wolf gets to be a playable character in it makes me ecstatic. So yes, I've never forgotten to be happy that Wolf is playable.

 

[=Snake=]

Fox, Falco and Wolf share a brotherhood in that they all join Smash Bros. with the same concept of how battles are fought.

A pistol should always be at your side. (standard B)

deflection is key. (down B)

phantom strikes tilt the tide of war in your favor (side B), but never exclude sheer power. (up B)

They share a common ground because this is how wars are won in their universe. But they're anything but clones. Each utilizes his own unique form of combat during conflict. Fox with his quick bursts of speed and devastating finishing smashes, Falco's relentless attacks and his unrivaled aerial combat, and Wolf with his powerful slashes and gruesome combos. This is the bond that both binds and breaks them.

Again, there are no clones, just characters from similar backgrounds utilizing resources from the same universe in their own unique forms of combat.

 

[Zeenof]

In almost every physical way Fox, Wolf, and Falco are exact clones. I mean, they all have the exact same special movies, and all have basically the same smashes. But, they all do have unique unimportant moves.
Also, in a lot of ways they aren't clones, b/c their speed, power, durability, etc. all very quite a bit. Wolf is much slower than the other two, but deal more damage than the other two, and can live longer.
I, personally, don't consider any character a clone of another. They all have differences in their attributes. But you have to understand that, they are, at the least, semi-clones because while much more is different, their is a lot that is the same. But, still, Wolf is definitely the biggest b.a.m.f of the 3.

 

[White_Lightning]

In almost every physical way Fox, Wolf, and Falco are exact clones. I mean, they all have the exact same special movies, and all have basically the same smashes.

Have you even watched any videos? Wolf and Fox don't share a single smash attack, in fact, every one of Wolf's moves that involve the "A" button are unique to him and not shared. Even Falco has a few unique "A" moves.

But, they all do have unique unimportant moves.

Define "unimportant moves". Do you mean taunts? That's not the only area where they're unique.

Also, in a lot of ways they aren't clones, b/c their speed, power, durability, etc. all very quite a bit. Wolf is much slower than the other two, but deal more damage than the other two, and can live longer.

This is hardly even there main difference.

I, personally, don't consider any character a clone of another. They all have differences in their attributes. But you have to understand that, they are, at the least, semi-clones because while much more is different, their is a lot that is the same. But, still, Wolf is definitely the biggest b.a.m.f of the 3.

Didn't you just say...

In almost every physical way Fox, Wolf, and Falco are exact clones. I mean, they all have the exact same special movies, and all have basically the same smashes.

You're hardly even making any sense.

 

[Zeenof]

I'm saying this: In most of the visual ways, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are clone-like. As in they all 3 have blasters, the same reflector, the same (aside from maybe Wolf) up-b. But statistically they are all 3 very different. You know, in the areas that aren't really tangible i.e. speed and power and stuff.

Unimportant moves like, anything that isn't a smash or a b-used attack. The rest like all the tilts and stuff, may be important in a match, but aren't really visually cool or anything that makes the game memorable, so, unimportant attacks.

 

[Darkslash]

Thanks White lightning. You just made my life Easier. I was staring at his post for 5 minutes trying to figure out what he said XD

P.S Every Attack is important or else it won't be in the Game

 

[White_Lightning]

I'm saying this: In most of the visual ways, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are clone-like. As in they all 3 have blasters, the same reflector, the same (aside from maybe Wolf) up-b. But statistically they are all 3 very different. You know, in the areas that aren't really tangible i.e. speed and power and stuff.

First off, there's nothing wrong wit Wolf using a blaster. Seeing as how it seems to be a popular weapon from the Star Fox universe, why shouldn't Wolf be using one? Not to mention with how different Wolf's is from Fox and Falco's, I don't consider it cloned. I'll admit that the rest of his B moves are altered variations from Fox. But three heavily-altered B moves and a Final Smash doesn't make him more of a clone than a unique character.

Unimportant moves like, anything that isn't a smash or a b-used attack. The rest like all the tilts and stuff, may be important in a match, but aren't really visually cool or anything that makes the game memorable, so, unimportant attacks.

But all of Wolf's smash attacks are different. Now your just contradicting yourself.

Thanks White lightning. You just made my life Easier. I was staring at his post for 5 minutes trying to figure out what he said XD

P.S Every Attack is important or else it won't be in the Game

Trying to find out what he's saying is giving me a headache.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I just wish I knew why I never see people call Ike a clone of Marth. I mean, they both have the exact same down-special (counter), ad both of their neutral specials are "hold the button to charge up a melee attack that auto releases when the charge reaches a certain point". Not to mention that both of them use sword swings for a least 90% of their A attacks.

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw a topic in which Ike was called a clone.

Unimportant moves like, anything that isn't a smash or a b-used attack. The rest like all the tilts and stuff, may be important in a match, but aren't really visually cool or anything that makes the game memorable, so, unimportant attacks

I guess Marth's not a very important Character, then, considering I don't find anything particularly memorable about his specials, they're just EVEN MORE sword swings! And besides, there are plenty of "visually cool" moves that arn't specials: Charizard breahtes fire for an arial move, and Ivysaurs entire A moveset consits of whipping people with plant-tentacles. How is that not cool?

Look, how about a compromise? Wolf's got plenty of unique material throughout his entire moveset, but his specials could have definatley used some more thought in the originality department, no matter how different they are right now. No one complains about Luigi having similarities to Mario; Why should everyone be up in arms about Wolf?

 

[Zeenof]

B/c Luigi has 2 attacks that are even almost anything like Mario's, while Wolf has 4 (possibly 3 if you don't count his up-b) that are just like Fox's - visually. And that's just his B attacks.

 

[White_Lightning]

B/c Luigi has 2 attacks that are even almost anything like Mario's, while Wolf has 4 (possibly 3 if you don't count his up-b) that are just like Fox's - visually. And that's just his B attacks.

Yeah, you're right about "just his B attacks". Three B attacks and a Final Smash are the ONLY properties he shares with Fox. Not to mention those three B attacks aren't even exactly the same as Fox, they're altered.

 

[Zeenof]

The only real way they are altered is the statistics. The looks of all of them are almost identical. Half of smash has always revolved around the b attacks. Then final smash is another part. Leaving only the normal lil' A attacks left. Thus making him a semi-clone.

 

[Ookami-kun]

Umm... no? There's more to that.

 

[White_Lightning]

The only real way they are altered is the statistics. The looks of all of them are almost identical. Half of smash has always revolved around the b attacks. Then final smash is another part. Leaving only the normal lil' A attacks left. Thus making him a semi-clone.

Have you even bothered to read anything I've posted? All you're doing is posting the same nonsensical arguments over and over again. I don't even understand your purpose. You claim the only way Wolf is different from Fox is statistics, yet then you go off and say he's only a semi-clone. Even if only his statistics were different from Fox, that would just make him a Melee clone, not a semi-clone.

 

[Dry Bones]

Wolf isnt a clone. but can we at least agree that he has a clone final smash?

 

[White_Lightning]

Wolf isnt a clone. but can we at least agree that he has a clone final smash?

Nobody here ever doubted that Wolf isn't 100% unique.

 

[Dry Bones]

and nor did i =)

 

[Milln]

Wolf and Fox have ---zero--- similar A moves. They don't even have the same properties. Let's pick a random move... f....air? fair. Wolf's is a single claw strike that sends the opponent upward. Fox's is a rapid kicking session that has minimal knockback until the final hit, which sends them in an arc outward. Anyone that says Wolf and Fox have similar A moves fails instantly.

Everyone keeps complaining about the B moves. Before I talk about them, let's talk about Ryu and Ken from Street Fighter fame. They have similar attacks and no one ever calls them clones but the misinformed. Each of their specials is different in both looks and properties, as are Wolf's and Fox's.

Neutral B- Blaster
Fox - Extreme rapid firing of single, thin red lasers that have zero knockback.
Wolf - Much slower shot of a large, green pulse of energy. If only the shot hits, the opponent flinches. If you hit up close with it and hit with the gun, the opponent will take two hits AND receive a considerable amount of knockback.

Not the same at all. Get off of it.

Down B - Reflector
Fox - Spammable blue reflector that sends projectiles back at the opponent. Can combo into and out of it. Stops vertical momentum when used in the air.
Wolf - Spammable pink/red reflector that sends projectiles back at the opponent at a much faster speed than initially. Cannot be combo'd out of, in fact there's a bit of lag if you actually hit with the shine. Does NOT stop vertical momentum when used in the air.

Kinda similar, but not the same. You might as well call Falco's reflector the same as Link's Boomerang.

Forward B - Phantasm
Fox - Very quick dash in a straight line forward. Can spike and you can also cancel it immediately after starting it, I believe.
Wolf - Very quick dash in a 45-ish degree angle. Can't spike, but does knock forward a tad if you hit with the very end. Pretty sure you can't cancel it like Fox and Falco.

Admittedly, I know the least about this one. It's still different and performs differently.

Up-B YOU MUST RECOVER
Fox - Standard Fire Fox. Charges up with flames around him and then bursts in a direction, knocking anyone he hits away, usually up. Moves a kinda Mario Running speed.
Wolf - Practically zero charge up time and then shoots in a direction. Anyone he hits, he CARRIES THEM WITH HIM until the end, where he delivers a boot to the face and knocks them away to the right or left. Moves much faster than Fire Fox.

Different properties.


So there. Wolf doesn't even have the same B moves. The only thing that's the same is the Final Smash. A Landmaster. But who cares about Final Smashes, anyway? Especially when you can fall down the middle of Yoshi's Island in a Landmaster and lose a stock. >,> I'll actually go ahead and say Wolf is a unique character and the only reason he has seeming similar moves is because he's from the same game world as Fox and Falco. Get off his case.

 

[Ookami-kun]

Yeah, poor guy. Most haters are usually the <character who didn't get it> supporters. =/

 

[Twilightwolf]

I think this is where a lot of people come from (Krystal supporters included):

Wolf looks like Fox. Must be a clone.

But then people start playing Brawl to find that you can't use Wolf or Falco like you did with Fox. That is because they are different characters. Duh!

Since visual appearance and the sourness of not having Krystral in Brawl, a lot of people don't like Wolf. Its our job to support Wolf and kick a** using him.

Now tell me that he is a clone.

 

[Ookami-kun]

Yup. We must at least show that he' isn't a clone.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I think this is where a lot of people come from (Krystal supporters included):

Wolf looks like Fox. Must be a clone.

Wouldn't surprise me if that's their rational, considering the amount of people who believe Bowser Jr. would be a clone of his dad.

Yup. We must at least show that he' isn't a clone.

Honestly, I think Wolf could be called a luigi-fied clone, it's just that even then he's got a lot more differences between him and fox than Luigi and Mario (and Luigi has a lot of differences to begin with.)

Before I talk about them, let's talk about Ryu and Ken from Street Fighter fame. They have similar attacks and no one ever calls them clones but the misinformed. Each of their specials is different in both looks and properties, as are Wolf's and Fox's.

Could you elaborate on Ryu and Ken please? I've always thought they were clones, so it would be nice to see why they're not.

 

[Zeenof]

I, actually, never wanted any certain character outside of Sonic on Brawl. And that is solely because he is a straight up classic that deserved a spot. I am, and have been, fine with the roster. I was even fine with Pikachu and Pichu. But they're still semi-clones no matter what anyone says.

 

[Ookami-kun]

Could you elaborate on Ryu and Ken please? I've always thought they were clones, so it would be nice to see why they're not.

Watch various gameplay vids featuring both (make sure it's the same game). You'll see things like Ryu's hadouken dealing more damage and being more combo-friendly than Ken, whereas Ken's hadouken is more of a buffer. Ken's shoryuuken has higher priority especially with the fierce version. Ryu's tatsumaki senpuu kyaku deals one hit damage, whereas Ken's version is more of a juggler.

Don't forget the fact that both have DIFFERENT normals.

People play them differently. As far as Street Fighter 3: The Third Strike goes, Ken is high tier whereas Ryu is a mid-tier.

Their case is really the same for Fox and Wolf (heck, Ryu and Ken are a lot more similar than Wolf and Fox), but then again I guess not many Smash players have played other games (no offense though).

 

[Milln]

Ooh. Thanks, Ookami. Got to it before I did. X3

 

[Ookami-kun]

I've been playing SF since Turbo, so I couldn't help but do it. XP

 

[PyroRyuken]

Watch various gameplay vids featuring both (make sure it's the same game). You'll see things like Ryu's hadouken dealing more damage and being more combo-friendly than Ken, whereas Ken's hadouken is more of a buffer. Ken's shoryuuken has higher priority especially with the fierce version. Ryu's tatsumaki senpuu kyaku deals one hit damage, whereas Ken's version is more of a juggler.

Don't forget the fact that both have DIFFERENT normals.

People play them differently. As far as Street Fighter 3: The Third Strike goes, Ken is high tier whereas Ryu is a mid-tier.

Their case is really the same for Fox and Wolf (heck, Ryu and Ken are a lot more similar than Wolf and Fox), but then again I guess not many Smash players have played other games (no offense though).

Lol, gotta love Ken. I always used him over Ryu. As for people saying they are clones, they are all pretty ignorant. I see lots of stupid comments and remarks to Brawl vids on Youtube.

 

[Milln]

Lol, gotta love Ken. I always used him over Ryu. As for people saying they are clones, they are all pretty ignorant. I see lots of stupid comments and remarks to Brawl vids on Youtube.

Haha. Almost everyone on youtube is ignorant and a fool. Sometimes we get those people, too. >,> Or they're just being unreasonable. Either way... Wolf needs moar Barrel Roll.

 

[Darkslash]

Well to the People on youtube are so stupid....they call Wolf a pure clone and STAR WOLF!!!! I MEAN WTH????

the idiots on youtube need this

 

[Ookami-kun]

Well they don't even call Wolf "Wolf" but Star Wolf. lol

 

[White_Lightning]

One of these days I'm just gonna be done with GameFaqs for good. That website just has way too many morons. I've always been tempted to sign up at that NeoGAF website ever since they leaked Brawl information.

 

[chaos_Leader]

"Only two things are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity."
-Albert Einstein

Nowhere is the above more present than the internet. People say and do stupid things, and you just have to deal with it.

 

[tanfastic]

Wolf, Fox, and Falco are not clones... amybe luigifacations but that's about it. I LOVE Falco and Wolf btw... Fox not so much XD

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Okay, so I watched some videos of Ryu and Ken (in the same match even), and I had a hard time spotting differences other than their throw and shoryuuken. I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume this is something that needs to be played to fully understand.

Wolf, Fox, and Falco are not clones... amybe luigifacations but that's about it.

Exactly.



I wonder Ridley would have been called a Charizard clone if he were playable...

 

[Ookami-kun]

I suggest watching Street Fighter Alpha 3, Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, etc. basically the ones after Street Fighter 2 for a good observation. 8D

 

[Viroxor]

Maybe Sakurai is trying to establish Fox, Falco, and Wolf as the Ryu, Ken, and Akuma of the Smash series? Is it possible Sakurai is a Street Fighter fan? Possible, I guess.

The similarities between the two trios is slightly uncanny. Fox=Ryu, Falco=Ken, Wolf=Akuma.

 

[C-Dizzle]

Seriously, Star Wolf!

Well they don't even call Wolf "Wolf" but Star Wolf. lol

Well i call him Wolf, cuz Star Wolf, is like calling Falco...STAR FALCO, or STAR SLIPPY. it just dosnt work.

 

[Darkslash]

Ignorance is Bliss on Youtube i get rated -6 thumbs because i say people are idiots calling Wolf a clone and calling him Star Wolf

 

[Ghost07]

Well i call him Wolf, cuz Star Wolf, is like calling Falco...STAR FALCO, or STAR SLIPPY. it just dosnt work.

Not really. Falco doesn't have his own team like Wolf and Fox. and Wolf calls Fox, Star Fox so Its not that bad...though I'm not saying I like it.

 

[Viroxor]

He only said that in 64, and I think it was just because he was referring to the whole team. That doesn't explain Andross, though. "I've been waiting for you, Star Fox." But since then, everyone's just referred to him as Fox.

I wonder who would win in an arm wrestle between Andross and the Master Hand?

 

[Milln]

Maybe Sakurai is trying to establish Fox, Falco, and Wolf as the Ryu, Ken, and Akuma of the Smash series? Is it possible Sakurai is a Street Fighter fan? Possible, I guess.

The similarities between the two trios is slightly uncanny. Fox=Ryu, Falco=Ken, Wolf=Akuma.

This post is great and I kinda agree with it.

He only said that in 64, and I think it was just because he was referring to the whole team. That doesn't explain Andross, though. "I've been waiting for you, Star Fox." But since then, everyone's just referred to him as Fox.

I wonder who would win in an arm wrestle between Andross and the Master Hand?

Andross, because he can do faces! Havin' trouble? Make the "O" face. Need more determination! Furrow your eyebrows!