Maybe it's just the internet, but it saddens me...

[White_Lightning]

He only said that in 64, and I think it was just because he was referring to the whole team. That doesn't explain Andross, though. "I've been waiting for you, Star Fox." But since then, everyone's just referred to him as Fox.

I wonder who would win in an arm wrestle between Andross and the Master Hand?

It could also possibly mean that "Star Fox" is also a title that Fox goes by.

 

[Prax]

I think it is more of a title and the name of the team. Though for smash people should just call them Fox and Wolf.

 

[ThePlantiff]

Maybe Star is a mercenary title, and like military ranks it can be used to address people.

Well on topic I think wolf is the most different "clone" in the game followed by Luigi and then Lucas, Falco, Ganondorf, and Toon link. Of course that's the opinion of of someone who hasn't played the game. -_-

The fact that IGN labels Lucario as a clone is ridiculous, first of all of who is Lucario a clone, Mewtwo? Well using that arguement, Ike is a Roy clone because they have fire in at least one of their attacks which is chargeable and can damage themselves, besides they can counter.

Has the internet make people stupider or people have made the internet stupider?

 

[Ookami-kun]

Hey, it's IGN.

One of Falco's ending in Command started the "Star Falco" groupie lol

 

[ThePlantiff]

Hey, it's IGN.

One of Falco's ending in Command started the "Star Falco" groupie lol

True.

I didn't get to play command.

The only clones people should be complaining about are IMO Toon Link and Ganondorf(especially that sword taunt) yet I don't see a lot of topics complaining about them.

 

[ThePlantiff]

EDIT: God, double post

 

[DancingZombies]

I'm surprised no one notices how much of a clone Lucas is of Ness, just because Ness was revealed after Lucas. But, I digress.

Wolf's A moveset is quite different, but his special moves are all pretty much the same (blaster, reflector, directional up-b, and fast moving horizontal movement side-b), though the side-b does have a weird angle.

Regardless, Wolf isn't a clone, but he's enough of one to make some people think he is.

 

[ThePlantiff]

I'm surprised no one notices how much of a clone Lucas is of Ness, just because Ness was revealed after Lucas. But, I digress.

Wolf's A moveset is quite different, but his special moves are all pretty much the same (blaster, reflector, directional up-b, and fast moving horizontal movement side-b), though the side-b does have a weird angle.

Regardless, Wolf isn't a clone, but he's enough of one to make some people think he is.

Lucas isn't a clone of Ness because the only similarites the B moves which while they have the same name they have different properties and the bat, all the other A moves are different.

Wolf is the same as Lucas similar B moves, but different A moves. So those two are not clones.

 

[WolfCypher]

Lucas isn't a clone of Ness because the only similarites the B moves which while they have the same name they have different properties and the bat, all the other A moves are different.

Wolf is the same as Lucas similar B moves, but different A moves. So those two are not clones.

Ok, by what definition would a character have to follow for them to be considered a "clone" by you? Because while I see the "Wolf is NOT a clone of Fox" arguement as valid (I'm still calling Wolf a clone, but that doesn't mean I'm calling him a carbon-copy of Fox, and my comparison of Wolf to Fox is what others would compare to as a "Luigi-esque" clone, something some of you guys have missed in my previous posts), I'm gonna need some serious convincing how the hey Lucas DOESN'T fall under the category of clone. So can you explain?

 

[KazuTheNut]

...how people, even after many vids, say that Wolf is a clone.

I mean seriously, he's as clone as me to my sandwich. <_<

That's because as soon as a character comes from the same series as another character, and have even slightly the same moves, they yell out clone without a second thought. Like you said, he's clone as we are to sandwiches.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

The fact that IGN labels Lucario as a clone is ridiculous, first of all of who is Lucario a clone, Mewtwo? Well using that arguement, Ike is a Roy clone because they have fire in at least one of their attacks which is chargeable and can damage themselves, besides they can counter.

Has the internet make people stupider or people have made the internet stupider?

Don't Forget about Charizard being a Bowser clone due to flamethrower.

Or what about Dedede and Kirby? They both have inhale, they both use a hammer swing for a special, and their up-specials are both "fly nearly straight up and then crash down with a shockwave effect".


And Lucario can't be a clone of Mewtwo, becuase he's not in the game! (that's not aimed you though, that's aimed at IGN)

That's because as soon as a character comes from the same series as another character, and have even slightly the same moves, they yell out clone without a second thought.

Agree'd.

...I'm still calling Wolf a clone, but that doesn't mean I'm calling him a carbon-copy of Fox, and my comparison of Wolf to Fox is what others would compare to as a "Luigi-esque" clone...

I think the problem is that, some people seem to label Wolf as an actual "clone" like Melee Fox/Melee Falco were clones, or they at least imply that definition of "clone". But I think it is valid to call him "Luigi-fied", beacause that at least acknowledges that he has some unique moves that aren't just stat changes (or in Wolf's case, a lot of unique moves).

 

[WolfCypher]

I wouldn't change a thing about Wolf (EXCEPT his Final Smash, I think we can all agree on that). He takes Fox's moveset and beefs it up a bit, and his A moves and throws are his own. Sakurai took Fox's most noticable attacks (his specials) when he was designing Wolf, but everything else is unique. Wolf is 50% Fox, though and anyone who can see that will call Wolf a clone. It really makes a difference whether you mean "Wolf is similar to Fox in enough ways" or "Wolf is just a graphical swap with Fox, literally". I go by the former, everyone else, the latter.

 

[ThePlantiff]

Ok, by what definition would a character have to follow for them to be considered a "clone" by you? Because while I see the "Wolf is NOT a clone of Fox" arguement as valid (I'm still calling Wolf a clone, but that doesn't mean I'm calling him a carbon-copy of Fox, and my comparison of Wolf to Fox is what others would compare to as a "Luigi-esque" clone, something some of you guys have missed in my previous posts), I'm gonna need some serious convincing how the hey Lucas DOESN'T fall under the category of clone. So can you explain?

I think on smash they are two types of clones. The clone which is like Falco from melee, Doctor Mario, Roy, Pichu, Young Link, and Ganondorf. While they are not carbon copy, since they are are slower and more powerful, or more light and quick, or they jump higher, than their "original" character. The moves they have usually share the same animation between a clone and the "original", clone moves have different properties(the move spikes, or it deals more damage) but these are usually imperceptble to the casual player.(here defined as a player who plays without knowledge of advanced techniques or Tiers)

Then there is the Luigified clone which unlike clones they usually have the same weight and similar appearance to the "original" they have different movesets and B moves differences
are more noticable. Example: Lucas and Ness

Ness PK fire is multi hit/holds enemy in place and Lucas PK fire is one hit/knocks enemy in the opposite direction. Ness's PK fire is launched diagonally in the air and Lucas launches it straight in the air.

Ness PK magnet is a shield-like move, Lucas puts his PK Magnet in front of him and can deal damage to an enemy, he also can turn around.

Ness PK Flash gets stronger when you charge it and knocks the enemy horizontally. Lucas PK Freeze is easier to control, I'm not sure but I think it always deals max damage, the move sends you vertically and it freezes you.

Ness PK thunder dissipates if it touches the enemy and deals them damage. Lucas PK thunder can go right through opponents dealing multiple hits.

Same with PK cannonball. Ness one powerful hit, Lucas multi hits.

A moves are very different I am ging to give 3 examples:
Ness Dair is a simple kick which spikes characters, Lucas Dair are three kicks which have extra range by having hexagonal PK blasts they send the opponent upwards.

Ness Up and down smashes are yo-yo attacks. Lucas Up smash is a hexagonal PK blast which deals a powerful blow. Down smash is like his dair. Three PK hexagonal blasts but they only cover his front unlike most Down smashes.

 

[ThePlantiff]

Don't Forget about Charizard being a Bowser clone due to flamethrower.

Or what about Dedede and Kirby? They both have inhale, they both use a hammer swing for a special, and their up-specials are both "fly nearly straight up and then crash down with a shockwave effect".

I remember that when Ike was comfirmed, a guy at Gamefaqs complained his up B was very similar to Kirby's and he deemed Ike a clone!!!

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Wolf is 50% Fox, though and anyone who can see that will call Wolf a clone.

Characters have 23 attacks:
1 neutral standard
3 tilts
1 running attack
3 smashes
5 arials
5 throw attacks (melee attack + 4 throws)
5 specials (including final smash)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the basis of the "Wolf is a clone" argument is that his SPECIALS are the same, correct?

Well, looking at my move-set breakdown, it would appear that less than 25% of his moeveset could be called a cloned move-set. And that's assuming that his specials are EXACTLY the same as Fox's. Throw in things such as his blaster's obvious differences, his up-special's (somewhat) obvious differences, and the few less noticable differences of his other specials, that percentage drops EVEN LOWER.

Personally, I think Wolf is maybe 10-15% like Fox, which is actually lower than how similar I think the Mario Bros. are. (I'd say Luigi is about 40% like Mario, which is still more unique than clone)

 

[Ookami-kun]

lol at IGN saying Fox, Falco and Wolf being palette swaps

 

[White_Lightning]

lol at IGN saying Fox, Falco and Wolf being palette swaps

Can't spell ignorant without...well you know how it goes. Still Wolf got a good amount presence in that review video, so I guess it kinda makes up for that ignorant comment.

 

[Roscoewolf]

I remember that when Ike was comfirmed, a guy at Gamefaqs complained his up B was very similar to Kirby's and he deemed Ike a clone!!!

hahaha xD
people are caught up too much on B moves , Blaster = Fox 0_0!!!

Guys ... I think Luigi and pikachu are clones... they both have similar over B

 

[Ookami-kun]

Can't spell ignorant without...well you know how it goes. Still Wolf got a good amount presence in that review video, so I guess it kinda makes up for that ignorant comment.

Wait, it does? I only read the transcript.

 

[Darkslash]

If Brawl can have 3 Fraken Foxes why can't we have Mewtwo

Ahh Well Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Korinza]

If Brawl can have 3 Fraken Foxes why can't we have Mewtwo

Ahh Well Ignorance is bliss.

Why is mostly everyone marking this game down because of "not enough characters." They're just selfish, I personally think that the roster is good and Sakurai did a good job. (Except having the EU get it like 2 months after NA, but thats a different topic.) Well really if they got their "MOAR CHARACTERZ" they would still be ingrateful and complain about the clones and asking for more.

Also since they said Lucario was a clone... they got their mewtwo.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

hahaha xD
people are caught up too much on B moves , Blaster = Fox 0_0!!!

Guys ... I think Luigi and pikachu are clones... they both have similar over B

Pikachu's standard special is very simiilar to Mario's, they're both projectiles that bounce along the ground.

Now that I think about it, there are a lot of specials that are similar in this game

sonic's down = jiggs neutral

DK's up = Bowser's up

Lucario's Down = Ike's Down /Marth's Down (Darn it Sakurai why did we need three Marths )

Squrtle's Neutral = Mario's Down

Lucario's Neutral = Samus Neutral

Pickachus FS = Sonic FS = G&W FS

Bowser FS = Wario FS

Link /Toon Link FS = Ike FS

Ridley does an attack where he charges from the background ... Master Hand does an attack where he charges from the background! $@#% now Rildey's a clone too!

lol at IGN saying Fox, Falco and Wolf being palette swaps

What's even worse is that IGN said their smashes are the same. They can't even use the right evidence to support their viewpoint.

 

[CorruptFate]

beleave me i've played the game and was a fox main in the last game wolf is NO FOX every attack of his is so different.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Keep in mind it's IGNs job to nitpick - if there was nothing to complain about, would they have jobs?

THey need to make some things seem flawed when they're really not that bad.

EX: Load times. MAX time it takes to load any ****ing game is 30 seconds. WHO CARES?