Blissard
Smash Lord
I enjoy how the large wall of text was decreased to 1.25 lines by Fino...
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Matchup Discussion: MK
- Thread starter Dabuz
- Start date
PSI.kick
Smash Lord
unfortunately we can't all be richbrown, so basically we gotta work for our placing, as opposed to playing m2k and exploiting an emotional breakdown xD
Tin Man
Smash Hero
its more of a 55-60 degree angle. If they nado under the tether and over the grab height (so basically off the ground), they can get in.Grounded tether.
Nuff said.
Oh yea and pivot grab and the like etc.
But really just beastly use of grounded tether ^_^ I mean it's a perfect freaking 45 degree angle, what more could you ask for to cover a "45 degree blindspot?"
Ninja'd by Denyce :/ But grounded tether was totally my idea so it's cool anywhays
sameI want to see vids of Rich vs M2K.
:leek:
I wonder if RichBrown could beat Anti. I think Anti should be able to beat him, he's better than M2K vs Diddy & Olimar, he beat Brood 2-0 at Apex. I wonder if Chibo can beat Richbrown & Dabuz xD
Nair into him, it beats his glide attack. Utilt & dash attack also work (multi hitting properties). Shield, wait for the glide attack then Usmash OoS, if they fully space it, a yellow should still hit em out of it.
Ugh, why did you and bob come back. It was nice for awhile
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
So we have a 20-30 degree blind spot? This should not be a problem.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
and its even better now
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I mm'd rich brown at mlg columbus and (despite a horrificly laggy tv int he hotel i didnt practice on not knowing it was that bad :/) took him to last hit game 3, but lost.
Dabuz I haven't played for like... I don't remember. It's been a very long time, I don't remember how our last set went at all, definitely has been over a year, and it was just a MM, not tourney or anything.
I've been playing with AndyG and .com since the beginning of Brawl and had plenty of tourney sets with Logic. I have a lot of Olimar experience to say the least.
Geddan
Smash Ace
OoS
grab
whistle
done
grab
whistle
done
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
chibo,you and me had a last game set where i won last match on frigate at last stock mid-percents, im sure the result would be extremely lopsided to one of our favors if we MMed again
Hai Im Fearless
Smash Lord
Yo chibo tell 'em how good I am they don't believe me
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
lol you just forward air and stuff
play marth
play marth
Marth can't throw his sword, bring out another sword, and then string them together for a kill move at 80%.
PSI.kick
Smash Lord
LOL^
but seriously guys we need to actually discuss this mu, we can't all be richbrown.
nado we've talked plenty on already, so lets deal with everything else. Where should oli be stagewise?
but seriously guys we need to actually discuss this mu, we can't all be richbrown.
nado we've talked plenty on already, so lets deal with everything else. Where should oli be stagewise?
RichBrown
Smash Master
There's a major thing in this MU I want to address: rolling.
Whenever I see an Olimar roll, it's generally out of fear or indecision. As we all know, Olimar's roll sucks jaguar peehole.
In game 3 against M2K, I rolled a total of 4 times. The first time was to roll past a nado which resulted in a KO. The second time looked like it was probably a mistake, since MK wasn't anywhere near me. The 3rd time was to roll away and stop myself from rushing into a bad situation. The 4th time was a panic roll which I got punished for.
I'm not saying don't ever ever roll, but learn to hold your ground, or dash away, or walk away. Be brave.
With Nado, I'm getting a lot better at punishing it. Just know where he can and can't go. If he goes too far away, run up to grab range and shield. If he rolls away that's fine, but be ready to punish just about every other action.
Grounded upB is sooo good. A smart MK isn't gonna land in front of you... So that must mean he's gonna jump! Scare the **** out of him with grounded upB from time to time. the move is surprisingly safe, and will scare MK from jumping into your blind spot. Do it randomly in friendlies, you'll all be surprised at how often it connects/you don't get punished for it.
Constantly mix up your ground attacks. For some silly reason they like to rush in when you do sideB so be ready to grab. Also when you do sideB don't jump into them and nair, too many of you commit to that. Instead, DI back an grab or something.
Whistle-nairing helps landing, just make sure you fastfall the whistle to throw off their timing.
Lots of usmashOoS, try to have a lot of hitboxes out, embrace the offensive decision, etc
Whenever I see an Olimar roll, it's generally out of fear or indecision. As we all know, Olimar's roll sucks jaguar peehole.
In game 3 against M2K, I rolled a total of 4 times. The first time was to roll past a nado which resulted in a KO. The second time looked like it was probably a mistake, since MK wasn't anywhere near me. The 3rd time was to roll away and stop myself from rushing into a bad situation. The 4th time was a panic roll which I got punished for.
I'm not saying don't ever ever roll, but learn to hold your ground, or dash away, or walk away. Be brave.
With Nado, I'm getting a lot better at punishing it. Just know where he can and can't go. If he goes too far away, run up to grab range and shield. If he rolls away that's fine, but be ready to punish just about every other action.
Grounded upB is sooo good. A smart MK isn't gonna land in front of you... So that must mean he's gonna jump! Scare the **** out of him with grounded upB from time to time. the move is surprisingly safe, and will scare MK from jumping into your blind spot. Do it randomly in friendlies, you'll all be surprised at how often it connects/you don't get punished for it.
Constantly mix up your ground attacks. For some silly reason they like to rush in when you do sideB so be ready to grab. Also when you do sideB don't jump into them and nair, too many of you commit to that. Instead, DI back an grab or something.
Whistle-nairing helps landing, just make sure you fastfall the whistle to throw off their timing.
Lots of usmashOoS, try to have a lot of hitboxes out, embrace the offensive decision, etc
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
One of these days I'm actually gonna compile that Book
Jane
Smash Hero
voc, ill help you. like i want that book too haha. we can split the work
*_Echo_*
Smash Journeyman
ScAtt77
Smash Journeyman
I think I have just about everything in this match up down except:
1. Reacting to MK's nado with a grounded tether
2. whistling the last hit of nado
Is there some cue for whistling MK's nado? I can't seem to get the timing right. :/
1. Reacting to MK's nado with a grounded tether
2. whistling the last hit of nado
Is there some cue for whistling MK's nado? I can't seem to get the timing right. :/
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
I haven't completely figured it out either. I usually mash whistle, but that leads to me whistling twice once he's done a lot of the time
Greward
Smash Lord
mmm
after my last tourney ill change my opinion to 5-5
after my last tourney ill change my opinion to 5-5
Greward
Smash Lord
hahaha
our upB ***** most of MK's aerial approaches and MK cant avoid it easily because of his bad aerial speed, MK is easy to combo for us and we can kill him at low % and he can only camp us using the ledge. nado is difficult to stop but we can easily DI out or whistle the last hit and our shield is big enough to shield it and punish. MK's upB is difficult to get in because of our whistle as well as nair and dair which are the best gimping options for MK, and he will have to use fair to gimp us and it's avoidable.
thats our advantages, i have to say some more but ive gotta study lol
wwwilliam0024
Smash Journeyman
Indeed, as much as ive seen so far, Rich brown did an awesome job vs M2K, i studied patiently the MU and maybe in some time close olimar will no longer have disadvantage over MK, but lets get back to the point.
In short summery MK is a ***, and is known for sucking ****. (gay)
Olimar seems to have more advantage on stages with diversity (like platforms and such). (not important not sure if true, but i think so)
First of all a MK wont be approaching you as much, so you better prepare your Camping game, force him to come at you by throwing your pikmins, if he doesnt approach and kills them just pluck again and continue.
If MK starts his approach, it wont be a regular approach, obviously he will look for a spot in the Air, Dair approach and Dair camping is normal, but we can easily avoid it, and punish it, you can power shield to an Usmash, or to a Uair, if youre far in distance you can Space Fair him, also if youre not sure or out of options, you can always Upb in the ground, this breaks all of MK aerials since its a Prop attack.
When he finds Aerials useless, the Tornado comes, which is very easy to avoid, and its almost very predictable. Shield up if hes very close, If hes stupid enough to End the tornado next to you, Grab/Usmash/dsmash/Fsmash/Fair punish, depends on you and on the situation.
If he Tornados and you shield and he tries go run away with the nado, you might think:"Let me go and catch him when he finishes it" NO!
Never follow a tornado for he can turn it back, and most MKs do that, once they see the opponent is approaching they will turn back, unless you are ready for it.
Tornado is also breakable with our Upb!!! And from long distances!! Use it wisely.
Tips:
Purple kills MK starting from 80% (Fsmash, Usmash)
Yellow has huge hotbox and is awesome for Spacing :D
Your nair tends to break tornado from the top (incase he Tornados you while falling)
You can Dair his UpB from the ledge, but its very risky :S
You can pivot grab his Tornado, but only if hes doing it on the ground :D
Use whistle armor for annoying situations like getting back on stage
If Mk sends you out of the stage, dont Double jump right away unless you are far, this is the cause of all gimps and olimars defeat
Dont Dodge/roll if unnecesary, when youre under pressure, rolls and unnecesary dodging is punishable, this is reason to olimars defeat
If MK is un top of you, try using mindgames to get him into an unnecesary dodge and then smash him
Yellow pikmins in Fsmash STOPs his Tornado when on the ground
Blue pikmin back and foward throws will kill him from 100% :D
Well right now i cant really think of anything else, i stated the IMPORTANT parts of the MU. =D
-william
In short summery MK is a ***, and is known for sucking ****. (gay)
Olimar seems to have more advantage on stages with diversity (like platforms and such). (not important not sure if true, but i think so)
First of all a MK wont be approaching you as much, so you better prepare your Camping game, force him to come at you by throwing your pikmins, if he doesnt approach and kills them just pluck again and continue.
If MK starts his approach, it wont be a regular approach, obviously he will look for a spot in the Air, Dair approach and Dair camping is normal, but we can easily avoid it, and punish it, you can power shield to an Usmash, or to a Uair, if youre far in distance you can Space Fair him, also if youre not sure or out of options, you can always Upb in the ground, this breaks all of MK aerials since its a Prop attack.
When he finds Aerials useless, the Tornado comes, which is very easy to avoid, and its almost very predictable. Shield up if hes very close, If hes stupid enough to End the tornado next to you, Grab/Usmash/dsmash/Fsmash/Fair punish, depends on you and on the situation.
If he Tornados and you shield and he tries go run away with the nado, you might think:"Let me go and catch him when he finishes it" NO!
Never follow a tornado for he can turn it back, and most MKs do that, once they see the opponent is approaching they will turn back, unless you are ready for it.
Tornado is also breakable with our Upb!!! And from long distances!! Use it wisely.
Tips:
Purple kills MK starting from 80% (Fsmash, Usmash)
Yellow has huge hotbox and is awesome for Spacing :D
Your nair tends to break tornado from the top (incase he Tornados you while falling)
You can Dair his UpB from the ledge, but its very risky :S
You can pivot grab his Tornado, but only if hes doing it on the ground :D
Use whistle armor for annoying situations like getting back on stage
If Mk sends you out of the stage, dont Double jump right away unless you are far, this is the cause of all gimps and olimars defeat
Dont Dodge/roll if unnecesary, when youre under pressure, rolls and unnecesary dodging is punishable, this is reason to olimars defeat
If MK is un top of you, try using mindgames to get him into an unnecesary dodge and then smash him
Yellow pikmins in Fsmash STOPs his Tornado when on the ground
Blue pikmin back and foward throws will kill him from 100% :D
Well right now i cant really think of anything else, i stated the IMPORTANT parts of the MU. =D
-william
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
If he DIs like an old lady -_-;
Jane
Smash Hero
*imagines how an old lady would DI*
x3
x3
wwwilliam0024
Smash Journeyman
Must be pretty pro :3
Greward
Smash Lord
blue forward throw is stupid, it never kills if they DI
like a MK got 150% and he still dont die lol
fthrow sucks
dunno if its real but it seems like fthrow doesnt have the same killing power than bthrow.
like a MK got 150% and he still dont die lol
fthrow sucks
dunno if its real but it seems like fthrow doesnt have the same killing power than bthrow.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Neither of them kill as early as up throw. They should be used primarily to rack damage..
Jane
Smash Hero
bthrow is DEFINITELY stronger tha fthrow. And as far as upthrow killing first, that depends on the stage and stage positioning when you grab them.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
No, it doesn't. It depends on DI. Up Throw almost always kills earlier than backthrow with perfect, or even just good DI. The only instance where backthrow kills as early as up throw is if you're against the ledge. Also, most neutrals have relatively the same horizontal blast zones and the only neutrals out of the nine that don't have the same ceilings are Halberd, Delfino Plaza, Phase 2 of Castle Siege and part of Phase 1 of Castle Siege. The rest all have the same ceilings, outside of the bumps on Yoshi's Island, or the slants on Lylat or the third Phase of Castle Siege, which are only 1-2% differences.
Also, I never said back throw wasn't stronger than forward throw. I said that neither should be used primarily for kills, because up throw is a better kill option if they DI your throw.
Also, I never said back throw wasn't stronger than forward throw. I said that neither should be used primarily for kills, because up throw is a better kill option if they DI your throw.
Jane
Smash Hero
oh, alrighty then. i always enjoyed getting schooled by you ^__^
also, i wasnt saying bthrow >fthrow because of anything you specifically said. i was just saying in general
also, i wasnt saying bthrow >fthrow because of anything you specifically said. i was just saying in general
wwwilliam0024
Smash Journeyman
Today i lost on a tourney to a MK, then i won loser finals, and got defeated by the same MK once more. Giving me a simple 2nd place.
Even though i was under pressure and that was the reason to most mistakes. I have defeated the MK before, i think i did stuff i wasnt supposed to relative to dodging/ evading.
I have to ask: How is dodging/Rolling/Air dodge relative to the MK MU?
Like is it good to roll or dodge? specific times? when you shouldnt?
Even though i was under pressure and that was the reason to most mistakes. I have defeated the MK before, i think i did stuff i wasnt supposed to relative to dodging/ evading.
I have to ask: How is dodging/Rolling/Air dodge relative to the MK MU?
Like is it good to roll or dodge? specific times? when you shouldnt?