Match-Up Rediscussion: Sonic

[Meru.]

As the Sheik rediscussion is quite dead, I've decided to create a new rediscussion so we'll still have something to do here! Next one is Sonic.

Oh yeah, if you're wondering about the summaries I still have to write... I'm lazy. They'll come sooner or later, don't worry.

So let's re-rediscuss ;D. But first, tha rules (copyright of Rickerdy-doo-da-day):

As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Sonic

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!!!​

​

​

 

[hotgarbage]

 

[Corrupted]

lol nice


Ground float nair > Sonic

But in all seriousness I don't know this match-up very well. Good Sonics are hard to come by.

 

[Meru.]

If the Peach knows this match-up at least decently... I think this match-up is really really bad for Sonic @_@. I'd say something around 65-35. Yeah sorry my good Sonics... but I find it quite bad.

I'll give my input later.

 

[~TBS~]

It definitely is bad. The way peach is in that picture is...hawt. @_@

Honestly, dair ***** those spin happy peoples...and nair is pretty **** as corrupted said. I play alot of peaches, but i dont know how to put this into words i'll try something, at least to help out. :/

basically, we know sonic as a punisher type char cause of the obvious. any laggy moves will be punished. But here is where the match turns highly into peaches favor. Her turnips can prove a problem ( if used wisely. if not, we can just run in and grab), also with the random chance of bombs effff. Those aerials...those darn aerials are raaape. Dair as you know, is asking sonic to punish...BUT, nair executes right after dair, and we are forced to either 1) get ***** by mu knowledge, try to punish and eat a nair or 2) shield the hits of dair and nair and shieldgrab?, or 3) run away, i guess lol. I cant say much for bair and fair, other than fair being a killing move.

From what i hear from rick, its a huge spacing game. Peach doesnt have to approach, sonic doesnt have to (assuming the whole lead thingy.) Sonic cant basically do much...one thing to watch out for is bair. But we have to be extremely careful with it. Its basically our only option we can consider "safe" and it isnt even that safe imo anyway.

or we could just use this kinda sorta. Its outdated but it seems accurate.

Just put it at 55-45 or 60-40 Peach I don't know which it is you guys probably know better than I do

Peach is gay, Sonic is...well Sonic is awesome but still annoying to fight against. Getting past Peach's Floating crap will suck if she refuses to approach you and pulls off lagless rubbish on your sheild and pokes and jabs and stuff. Use Bair as Sonic but just be careful since Peach can hit you with her Fair if you miss or just chase you on the floor. Just punish her with Bair and stuff. Recover as best you can, Sonic's recovery is pretty screwy vs Peach anyway, you can die early if you're not careful

DI diagonally upwards against her stuff, she kills horizontally with Fair and the like. Chis is stupid and lives to about 190% if we're both playing well and even if he does mess up a bit he normally survives to around 160%, something stupid like that. Getting a hit on either side is really hard since their range his pretty even and I've found landing a kill move on Sonic is ridiculous since he moves so bloody fast but when coming down with my Fair on his sheild, provided I pull away a bit before and after the Fair comes out Sonic can't grab Peach but then Sonic can just roll away and run away and no one takes any damage and ARRGGGGGHHHHH

Turnips are silly, catch them if she's intent on spamming them, they're not fantastic vs Sonic anyway. I mean, they're Turnips so they're still really good but they lose their effectiveness when Sonic can run up and grab you, probably even if Peach does Turnip slide. If she has got a Turnip out watch her attack pattern and smack her or just wait until it's gone. Glide tossing can be used to punish Sonic's Bairs so be wary of that

If your Peach is silly or a risk taker, get ready to angle an F Smash up when she's recovering and coming towards you with a Fair, it'll probably smack her in the face before the Fair hits you. I've died a few times in the past to this and got a few Peach's doing this as well. Also, if your Peach mispaces her Fair or Jabs, grab her. Grab her when the Fair hits your sheild before she jabs and if she does jab, spotdodge if she goes for a 2nd one or grab her inbetween, judge the distance first so you don't get slapped. Don't go running towards her like a crazy fool cause her D Smash will slip you up. And don't try hit her out of a Fair if she SH Fair's by jumping off the ledge, shes invincible and you'll get hit


Neither side can kill very easily at all when playing carefully meaning this match will go on forever. Space for all your worth and if Peach is doing the same...well, you'll be there for a long time

Im not really experienced at this, but i wanted to give it a shot because im trying to become more involved in MU discussions. x_x 60-40 seems to be this mu, but imo its way worse. Peach just has so much on sonic, and he cant do much other than bair and grabs. Sure, we got our baits and spincancels, and they can be widely effective. ASC (aerial spin charge) is also another huge thing sonic has. With it, he can effectively get grabs on the regular, if its used correctly, (due to it being cancelable into a shield, like other spin cancels.) But it might not be enough to make this match a cakewalk for Sonic.

dont kill me. *hides

 

[da K.I.D.]

i find this to be an amazingly accurate depiction of this matchup...

now, everyone here can pretty much agree that peach beats sonic, but if we want this discussion to actually be useful, lets NOT talk about numbers for AT LEAST a few days-a week.

That way, we can focus, not on who wins, or by how much, but why the matchup leans a certain way, and how the match is to be properly played out.

That being said, since most people dont follow these ideas that I just typed out, most likely I will be the one of, if not, the only higher end sonic that will be participating in this discussion.

With that, lets begin.

Peach is going to want to be aerial as much as possible. sonic can deal with peachs ground moves with a pretty high level of ease. but in the air peach out classes sonic at pretty much every turn.

The most efficient float height for you would probably be right above sonics head. when I encounter peachs that stay at that height, I find it retardedly hard to approach her.

Turnips arent going to be very effective, i dont think, since a lot of us sonics envy the characters in the game that can spawn items and thus attempt to steal them for ourselves. which is to say that even tho sonic doesnt have items, our item play is better than that of most characters you will encounter, both offensively and defensively.

Pretty much any time you see a sonic coming at you, doing any aerial to correspond with the angle the sonic is coming from, will frequently beat the option sonic is using.

Make sure you have your autocancel timings down on your floats because sonics game revolves around forcing options out of people, and than punishing their lag, no matter how little it is. but if you land with no lag, the only thing we can do is predict your lagless option and try to beat that. which isnt what we want to do.

You probably do this anyway, but sonics will take every chance to take advantage of your cruddy airdodge, and theres pretty much no reason to airdodge against sonic, since your aerials beat ours. and the only aerial of ours that beat yours is our bair, and it requires precise spacing. but spaced well, it can beat all peachs attacks.

dispite the priority disadvantage we have in the air, sonics will have to be very agressive vs peach offstage. we can homing attack you if you float toward the stage. normally our homing attack is really bad at homing, but due to its mechanics, it works really well against peach.

dont try double dairs on sonics shield, we will up tilt you oos.

the only way sonic can beat peach (aside from out playing her) is by taking advantage of the fact that peachs killing ability is almost as bad as his. so around 130 (I think thats what fair will normally kill at right?) sonic will start playing extremely cautious, not taking any chances to be hit by fair or f smash. sonic has a good weight and a very good momentum cancel in spindash, so even tho peach does have some secondary ko moves like bair, they are going to be mostly ineffective against sonic, since they will almost always give sonic a chance to spindash back to the stage.

fortunately Espy just had a set recorded with a peach player named castro. I dont know how good he is, but I think espy has much more skill at the game.

he correctly exemplifies how sonics mixups and cancels can really overwhelm a player that doesnt fully understand him.

I feel these games play out the way they do because once espy builds momentum the peach gets scared and starts to play defensively, and stops trying to out prioritise him, which is pretty much what you should always do against sonic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHI8KN-QqUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8XNwBZ9VqU

 

[deepseadiva]

I beat X in an MM up-throwing turnips and nairing underneath!

But he also went Ganondorf the two games prior. >___>

Yes, two. Shut-up it's X.

 

[deepseadiva]

I like how I double post FOUR MINUTES LATER.

 

[LanceStern]

lol nice


Ground float nair > Sonic

But in all seriousness I don't know this match-up very well. Good Sonics are hard to come by.

I was going to say that hands down. It shut down my friend.

The nair basically outprioritizes every one of his moves. The only thing to look out for is forward smash

 

[da K.I.D.]

bair > your nair.

lets try to avoid the blanket statements, shall we?

 

[Eddie G]

Toad > your bair. Peach shouldn't even allow him a chance to score too many bairs anyway.

And seeing as it is the "safest" and most frequent option you'll go for in the air (as described by you), it isn't too difficult to see coming. Peach does a good job of keeping a lead against Sonic from my experience (I've played Shugo's and ITT's Sonics occasionally, although Shugo has the natural ability to step it up and momentarily overwhelm just about anyone).

In order for her to effectively run away from Sonic, she must either float at head-height or at Sonic's full jump height (preferably the latter) and face towards Sonic if possible. From that angle, her dair can prevent most of Sonic's approaches, and double jumping into another dair gives her just enough height to avoid any of his surprise bairs while catching him at the same time. The only way he can really force her out of this position is to either catch her by surprise (spaced fair or homing attacks usually do the trick) or force her into an unfavorable airdodge with the same fair/bair tactic.

Other than that, I really don't see how the average Sonic can compete against a Peach who knows the matchup. Amazing Sonics (take your pick out of Shugo, Espy, or X) just have the sheer ability to bypass traditional matchup play/tactics and occasionally mind**** their opponent to oblivion.

Solid Peach's favor.

 

[White-Peach]

Speed told me if I DAir'd the entire match I would have won What I really noticed is that they (the sonics) use their speed to hit you the moment you touch the ground and are vulnerable. While they can't always be there at the exact time you touch the ground, you should definitely buffer the next attack to catch them when they try to approach you at that point. If you play smart (not committing to anything with lag needlessly), and try to keep them out when they try to get in their spindash hits and grabs, the only time you should always be vulerable is when you touchdown. But everyone is vulnerable at that point, so you buffer attacks to screw them over when they mess up that tiny window of opportunity

 

[Corrupted]

Peach doesn't have to leave the ground tbh. With groundfloat aerials she doesn't really have dead frames and you can just take control. Glide toss works as a extended arm that can punish from reasonably far away and an approach thats reasonably safe with great pay off.

No dead frames -> Sonic's demise

 

[Eddie G]

Speed told me if I DAir'd the entire match I would have won What I really noticed is that they (the sonics) use their speed to hit you the moment you touch the ground and are vulnerable. While they can't always be there at the exact time you touch the ground, you should definitely buffer the next attack to catch them when they try to approach you at that point. If you play smart (not committing to anything with lag needlessly), and try to keep them out when they try to get in their spindash hits and grabs, the only time you should always be vulerable is when you touchdown. But everyone is vulnerable at that point, so you buffer attacks to screw them over when they mess up that tiny window of opportunity

Correct.

Buffer jabs especially, and f-tilt if he's coming at you in the air from the height of a short hop.

 

[Meru.]

Toad > your bair. Peach shouldn't even allow him a chance to score too many bairs anyway.

Our Fair definitely wins of his Bair, but it's slower. Our Bair can also compete with his Bair. But yeah, Peach shouldn't allow Sonic to bair anyway.

Now we're talking about Bair... Bair is also lovely in this match-up o.o

A few stuff I've noted:

- Sonic's the name, speed my name! He doesn't lie, he is fast.

- BUT we have attack speed. And that hurts him. A lot.

- Approaching Sonic shouldn't be too hard. Just approach like you normally would. A turnip here, float there, shorthop here again and something else there again.

- If Sonic is going to approach, counter his approaches with quick aerials, jab or Ftilt/Fsmash. And turnips. Also lovely, and they can force him to approach, if you don't like to approach yourself.

- Edgeguarding him is quite tough for me. But ehh... Utilt>Dair. Not enough time to go below. Turnips all the way! Or a dash attack, of course.

- He also can't really edgeguard us. Every aerial beats his homing attack. Nair is mostly your best bet, but Bair is also great. Dair is the best when he's below you and Uair is he's above you. Then just... avoid his aerials?

- I hate that Spring. That stupid thing always hits me o_o

- You should live for a long time. However, do watch out for his Spring > Uair combo. It works quite well on our floaty princess. More kill moves... Bair, Fsmash, Dsmash?

- Pressure, pressure, pressure. Keep up the pressure if you have it. You don't have to be aggressive the whole match, but if you have some pressure on him, maintain it!

- Peach can play both aggressively and defensively. Whatever you like the best~

To do Da Kid a pleasure, I won't put any ratio, but I have to say that this is a very solid advantage for Peachy.

 

[White-Peach]

Oh yeah, when you respawn, float immediately. Speed put that spring beneath me and used it to launch me up and waste my invincibility upon respawn. Tricky tricky!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

This is one of the only match ups I'm actually confident about giving information for. I want to mention that KIDs post is extremely good and I personally agree with pretty much all his points. The videos he's posted also give a brilliant showcase of what a formidable Sonic can do to you if you mess up/don't know what you're doing and also what Sonic is capable of doing when used well

If don't know how to play this match up and you're playing a good Sonic you're going to get *****. Sonic's gameplay will revolve around punishing holes in your attacks and if you don't know what you're doing, there's going to be a hell of a lot of holes. The thing that Speed posted is old but I believe the principles of what I said are still the same

As a lot of people have already said, Nair is very good against Sonic but only if he's spindashing into you or landing with an airdodge or something nearby...which most good Sonic's won't do. One of Sonic's best moves is Bair in this match due to its range but it can be countered by almost any of Peach's aerials getting a hit in (such as a Fair or Dair or a well timed/jumped Bair) or if you do have a Turnip, you can shield the Bair and chase him. That's not to say you can just fly about throwing things out, a clever Sonic will be looking for holes in your aerial use

The most important thing you do in this match is to play him at his own game. Punish him whenever you can, he'll be doing the same. Be always on the look out for punishment, even for minor things, memorise the way his moves will knock you back...anything that will help you punish him

Having said that, you must also make sure that what you do is safe otherwise you'll get punished. Floating aerials at around Sonic's head height and moving back and forth makes it very hard for Sonic to approach due to Peach's aerials. Dair is very good against Sonic but move out of the way so Sonic can't DI out of it and hit you with a Spring/Uair (if you think he's going to do that anyway)

Sonic's Spring doesn't auto snap to the ledge which is something you should do your best to capitalize on. If he recovers from below, you can sometimes get an Up Smash in if he bounces over your head or if he Dairs down to you if he recovers up high. By far the safest thing to do is Ground Float and wait to Nair him though. If Sonic does decide to Homing Attack you, Nair or Up Smash, 90% of the time its a free hit. On FD, Sonic can wall jump from underneath the lip to the ledge...just something I'd point out. Speaking of Spring, don't fall down straight away when you respawn, some Sonics may put a spring underneath you to put you in the air and waste your invincibility frames

When you're recovering be extremely wary of what Sonic is going to do - remember how fast he is. If he goes for a Bair, Toad only if you're sure, otherwise pull away/airdodge. Avoid crashing down with a Fair back onstage if Sonic is charging up his F Smash. A large majority of the time, the up angled F Smash will hit your right in the face. A prime example is at around 0:44 in the 2nd video that KID posted. Castro comes crashing down with a Fair and Espy gets a kill by chipping in with his F Smash. Trust me from experience, its not a good thing for Peach to do

Turnips aren't as good against Sonic as they would be against other characters due to his ground speed. Pull them if you get the opportunity and use them to punish things like attacks on your shield. Stay in the air if he grabs one and Float at head height with aerials such as Dairs and Fairs (like you normally would vs Sonic anyway), Sonic has a very long Glide Toss but if you're Floating at head height, he isn't going to want to Glide Toss right at you

Neither side can kill very at all. Peach should start getting worried at around 120-130% which is when F Smash and Bair will pose dangerous threats if they hit. I manage to normally stay alive up to around 150% on average from what I can remember but I've had Sonic live up to around 180% against me...I think the most I've had Chis live up to was around 220-230%. The problem is landing the kill move. If either side is playing safe, no one will be approaching so landing a kill move is extremely hard, often you'll just find yourself chipping in weak bits of damage. Unless you're really far behind, try not to make obvious head on approaches as you set yourself up for a risk of being punished, always let Sonic come to you unless you can get punishment in and only if you're sure that its safe. Neither character should be dieing below around 100-120% unless they mess up horrifically


In short, play safe and play smart, be on the look out for punishment and potential follow ups, make good use of Floating, aerials, fast moves and Turnips (that's kind of what I'd say for all match ups anyway though ). I've always found playing a good Sonic a great challenge but thats not really what you're looking for if you're hoping to win a tourney or something xD Peach definitly has the tools to counter what Sonic does but if the Sonic is better than your Peach, don't be surprised if you get wrecked

 

[Corrupted]

Oh and don't be a moron and airdodge out of his vertical launches.

 

[da K.I.D.]

spring up air doesnt work on anybody.

just DI the up throw behind sonic.

is this thread only to talk about what peach can do to beat sonic, or can we talk about the inverse as wel?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach can upair sonic out of his dair but you need precise timing, btw.

 

[Corrupted]

Or just shield and then uair string.

Yes k.i.d. I for one am interested in how sonic starts his momentum and takes control.

 

[~TBS~]

School is so annoying, i couldnt reply that quicky. @_@

In order for her to effectively run away from Sonic, she must either float at head-height or at Sonic's full jump height (preferably the latter) and face towards Sonic if possible. From that angle, her dair can prevent most of Sonic's approaches, and double jumping into another dair gives her just enough height to avoid any of his surprise bairs while catching him at the same time. The only way he can really force her out of this position is to either catch her by surprise (spaced fair or homing attacks usually do the trick) or force her into an unfavorable airdodge with the same fair/bair tactic.

Other than that, I really don't see how the average Sonic can compete against a Peach who knows the matchup. Amazing Sonics (take your pick out of Shugo, Espy, or X) just have the sheer ability to bypass traditional matchup play/tactics and occasionally mind**** their opponent to oblivion.

Solid Peach's favor.

pretty much what you said dere. Only thing I would like to fix is that Homing Attack wouldn't be advised. Really, Peach could uair as soon as Sonic rushes towards her, and since Sonic moves upwards towards peach, that uair wold ****. The average Sonic vs a Peach who knows the MU would get destroyed...utterly. Amazing ones...well, you said it right. :o

Speed told me if I DAir'd the entire match I would have won What I really noticed is that they (the sonics) use their speed to hit you the moment you touch the ground and are vulnerable. While they can't always be there at the exact time you touch the ground, you should definitely buffer the next attack to catch them when they try to approach you at that point. If you play smart (not committing to anything with lag needlessly), and try to keep them out when they try to get in their spindash hits and grabs, the only time you should always be vulerable is when you touchdown. But everyone is vulnerable at that point, so you buffer attacks to screw them over when they mess up that tiny window of opportunity

White Peach! <3
Yeah, dair would have given me no chance to win with the way you were playing. Brinstar for peach is @_____@

Peach doesn't have to leave the ground tbh. With groundfloat aerials she doesn't really have dead frames and you can just take control. Glide toss works as a extended arm that can punish from reasonably far away and an approach thats reasonably safe with great pay off.

No dead frames -> Sonic's demise

Kinda sorta. Factoring mindgames into this is kinda irrelevant (medoinitrite?), but sonic could bait some moves, yada yada. But if you play it smart, yep pretty much.

Our Fair definitely wins of his Bair, but it's slower. Our Bair can also compete with his Bair. But yeah, Peach shouldn't allow Sonic to bair anyway.

Now we're talking about Bair... Bair is also lovely in this match-up o.o

A few stuff I've noted:

- Sonic's the name, speed my name! He doesn't lie, he is fast.

- BUT we have attack speed. And that hurts him. A lot.

- Approaching Sonic shouldn't be too hard. Just approach like you normally would. A turnip here, float there, shorthop here again and something else there again.

- If Sonic is going to approach, counter his approaches with quick aerials, jab or Ftilt/Fsmash. And turnips. Also lovely, and they can force him to approach, if you don't like to approach yourself.

- Edgeguarding him is quite tough for me. But ehh... Utilt>Dair. Not enough time to go below. Turnips all the way! Or a dash attack, of course.

- He also can't really edgeguard us. Every aerial beats his homing attack. Nair is mostly your best bet, but Bair is also great. Dair is the best when he's below you and Uair is he's above you. Then just... avoid his aerials?

- I hate that Spring. That stupid thing always hits me o_o

- You should live for a long time. However, do watch out for his Spring > Uair combo. It works quite well on our floaty princess. More kill moves... Bair, Fsmash, Dsmash?

- Pressure, pressure, pressure. Keep up the pressure if you have it. You don't have to be aggressive the whole match, but if you have some pressure on him, maintain it!

- Peach can play both aggressively and defensively. Whatever you like the best~

To do Da Kid a pleasure, I won't put any ratio, but I have to say that this is a very solid advantage for Peachy.

Solid indeed. Spring is...weird. XD
I dunno about that thing with you guys approaching though...no need to take unnecessary damage right?

Oh yeah, when you respawn, float immediately. Speed put that spring beneath me and used it to launch me up and waste my invincibility upon respawn. Tricky tricky!

I thought you wouldnt notice that.

Hi, my name is Rick and im awesome. :3

Heck yeah man, there you are. @_@
nice summary.

spring up air doesnt work on anybody.

just DI the up throw behind sonic.

is this thread only to talk about what peach can do to beat sonic, or can we talk about the inverse as wel?

You can try to talk about what Sonic has on Peach, but you wont find much. Spring > Uair should never work. :o

/mybiasagainstsonic

Oh and don't be a moron and airdodge out of his vertical launches.

This. Just keep yourself ready to react to anything if the Sonic springs.

Peach can upair sonic out of his dair but you need precise timing, btw.

Dair is so weird XD
Im the only Sonic that doesn't use that move...like at all.

But really, i dont know how Sonic could get the upper hand. KID can prolly help you in that area more, as im more adept at actually playing the game than explaining how sonic gets momentum. But for some reason, i can point out what opponents can do to sonic.

 

[Meru.]

I'd certainly love to know what Sonic can do best.

Great wisdom

Wow excellent summary!

Solid indeed. Spring is...weird. XD
I dunno about that thing with you guys approaching though...no need to take unnecessary damage right?

Mehh... it's for the ones who would prefer to approach. Forcing an approach and approaching doesn't make a very big difference imo, they're both equally good for Peach. It actually comes down to the Peach's skill and preference, whether they'd like to approach or force one.

Of course, Peach should not just always float Dair or something, but she should approach well.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh yeah, when you respawn, float immediately. Speed put that spring beneath me and used it to launch me up and waste my invincibility upon respawn. Tricky tricky!

LOL

That's so pro.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic gets shut down by Peach.
He can't punish attack lag if it doesn't exist.

This is also why he has difficulty with Luigi, actually.

 

[da K.I.D.]

We should probably rediscuss luigi actually. I feel like sonic doesnt do too bad against him anymore because of our massive mobility advantage on him, and not getting range *****.

pretty much forcing peach to do anything defensive is an advantage to sonic.

the way sonic does this is by feigning approaches with side b and asc cancels

if sonic runs head first at you and start charging side b, your first reaction might be to jump back wards and fair or something like that. but in that situation I might shield cancel it, and jump out of shield into an aerial down b (aka aerial spincharge, aka ASC), at which point I would be flying through the air at you with a hitbox, while your landing on the ground after your whiffed fair. you would be scared of getting hit by my attack, and naturally, you would shield, but because of the properties of the asc, not only can i pressure your shield with multiple attacks, I can hold shield to cancel it upon contact with the ground and immediately shield grab you. which puts peach in a really bad position.

of course this is only one hypothetical situation, but its generally how sonics do so well, we make you think we are going to do one thing, and when you react to punish that, we stop what we are doing and choose the option that beats what you initiated to beat us in the first place.

we have so many options with our moveset, the only way you can stop him is by accurately predicting what hes going to do, by either luck, or player knowledge.

the only thing about peach is that more of her options beat more of our options, thus making it easier on you than us at any given point.

 

[BSP]

Well, anything I would've said has pretty much been said. That being said, it's definitely in Peach's favor.

The most Sonic can hope for here is to trick peach with some random spins/spin cancels and such. If he doesn't, he gets ***** by her lagless and out-prioritizing air game.

I don't think Sonic should HA at all, since any one of peach's aerials will beat it. Sonic's best bet with edgegaurding is to try to catch peach off gaurd with bair, or go from below with a well spaced u air if she's at really high damage (which she probably will be).

We should re discuss Luigi though, he's soooooooo sloooowwww...

 

[da K.I.D.]

HA is a lot better than people give it credit for. (even though its still pretty bad)

since its such an unused move, people dont know how to time their moves to beat it a lot of the time, since its such a surprise.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That's something I did forget to mention, Sonic can cancel his Side B spincharge on the ground and he can also perform a 'Spinshot' which basically sends him zooming horizontal in a sort of arc whilst he's charging a spindash/letting go of one

If you're playing to win...tbh, I honestly don't think either of these are too threatening once you know about them. Side B shield cancel only works if the spin charge isn't fully charged and it doesn't actually get Sonic anywhere. It'll work if you charge into him or misspace something on him and he shield grabs you but that should never be happening since you don't really need to approach Sonic and you deserve to get grabbed anyway if thats happening

Spinshot is really not that good once you've learnt how far it sends Sonic. He has no hitboxes around him whilst doing it and is completely vunerable to interception because he can't do anything until its ended. Using it vs Peach is made even more tricky since she can Float at any desired height and smack him out of it with Nair or an Up Smash if he foolishly decides to do it back onto the stage. Sonic will never use spinshot to recover unless he's sure its safe/he's really far away and will be out of lag to do something but if your Sonic does that, punish him for it

ASC cancels are really nothing to be afraid of either imo, if Peach is Ground Floating then Sonic is throwing himself right into a potential Nair or F Tilt if she's grounded (or even worse, an Up Smash) and the only way he can escapes punishment is to either jump (if he's still got it left) or attempt to move/Spring and if he does that, Peach can just drop her Float and shield an oncoming attack. For those of you that aren't aware of what an ASC cancel is, its basically Sonic charging his Down + B in the air and then using shield as he hits the floor to stop him from carrying on the spindash. It can really harrass you if you don't make any effort to punish it or you sit there in your shield but again, if you just keep your distance and let Sonic do his thing, it doesn't actually get him anywhere. If it does hit your shield, you could probably shield grab him when he starts getting close to the floor after the hitboxes have gone but its been a long time since I fought Sonic so my memory is a bit hazy on that matter


Don't get me wrong, they're great mix ups but its like Espy said, Peach doesn't really have attack lag Sonic can punish which is why her wall works so well

 

[EdreesesPieces]

One things for sure, Sonic is like the only character in the game I actually consider cooler than Peach. By the way this is a graet matchup thread, it's the first time I felt the lack of need to have any input because you guys covered it so well (and better than I ever could)

 

[Espy Rose]

Edreeses. Can we make love sometime soon?

 

[da K.I.D.]

So Ive given you all pretty much all of my sonic secrets, yet I still feel I have no idea how to beat peach...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So Ive given you all pretty much all of my sonic secrets, yet I still feel I have no idea how to beat peach...

Isn't that technically the job of the Sonic boards? Peach has been the focus of discussion quite a few times from what I recall

In the few cases I do use Sonic against Peach, I find that Bair is your friend but unfortunetly, thats all I can really say on the matter, my Sonic isn't very good anyway xD You could try asking Chis what he remembers. This isn't an easy match for Sonic if the Peach knows what shes doing and how to tackle Sonic. Its like Espy said - you can't punish attack lag that isn't there which is a major problem for Sonic

Something Sonic can do which is what Chis used to do to me if I got repetitive was to prematurely run towards me if he expected me to drop out of my Float with a Fair whilst I was trying to create a 'wall'. This caused me to misspace and be open to getting grabbed. I wouldn't really recommend Sonic try this though cause Peach can move out of the way or just do something different

If Sonic ASC's in the air and Peach expect it, chances are she'll Ground Float and get ready to Nair you. If Sonic still has his jump left, he could jump out of the ASC and Dair her or do another aerial. The problem again is that Peach could just drop the Float and shield or move out of the way whilst doing the Nair. Sonics Dair from ASC height would cause him to lag when he hits the ground and any other aerial would be easily punished as well

The best thing Sonic has going for him is clever spacing of Bair and using it to chip in holes of Peach's attacks but the problem with this is that Peach's Fair will normally get the hit in first as it covers her very well, getting a Bair in there is very difficult without getting hit by one of her aerials or landing in an awkward position. Relying on Bair also stales one of Sonic's best kill moves leaving him only with F Smash and D Smash. With her Float, D Smash isn't much of a problem at all so that leaves you with Fair which only works if Peach stupidly crashes down with a Fair and doesn't move out of the way or if you manage to trick Peach into getting hit by it

 

[da K.I.D.]

so im probably going to have to revert back go 08-09 KID for this matchup.

Which means im going to play extremely safe, only take advantage of what she gives me, and kill all three stocks with up throw at 190

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

so im probably going to have to revert back go 08-09 KID for this matchup.

Which means im going to play extremely safe, only take advantage of what she gives me, and kill all three stocks with up throw at 190

Pretty much :D

No seriously, that is literally how the match goes. Unless me or Chis messed up horribly, a lot of kills were simply based on that - me getting lucky aerials in and Chis getting Up Throws in when he grabbed me. No joke, I remember getting quite a few kills from Peach's Dair. Sure, he'd live up to about 180-220% but we were playing that safe that minor hits like that were the only thing that killed. Once Peach gets to around 180-190%, provided it isn't stale Sonic's Up Throw should kill her even with DI

The problem is not the kill moves they have, its landing them. Peach is going to be using aerials to create a wall to prevent Sonic form getting in if she's playing extremely safe and Sonic is going to have a very hard time getting past that wall


If things get really bad, you could try running away and timing Peach out. The problem is in order to that, you have to tackle her and get some damage on which is difficult what we've mentioned earlier. If you do run away, you give her a chance to pull up a Turnip and start setting up various traps. You'll run out of stage eventually and Peach can just continually move her 'wall' towards you. Sonic then has the problem of getting away from Peach, one mistake and he could end up taking a lot of damage. If Peach is Floating at head height and has a Turnip with her, there's a good chance she can cover nearly all of where Sonic might go. I honestly can't remember if me and Chis ever agreed to trying to time each other out, it's not something I like doing with friends unless we specifically say that its ok/needed to win

 

[White-Peach]

So Ive given you all pretty much all of my sonic secrets, yet I still feel I have no idea how to beat peach...

Do what Speed did to me Use the full 8 minutes and just wear the other player down. As long as you can focus longer than him, you can sneak in the grabs and stuff. All of your attacks look/sound the same, so it's hard to know whats coming. Just mindgame/fakeout over the 8 minutes, and just keep running away or snagging those grabs/hits to damage over the entire timer. Don't lose focus (I want to be a Peach that plays like Sonic, "Can't catch me!" *Turnip*)

 

[da K.I.D.]

Do what Speed did to me Use the full 8 minutes and just wear the other player down. As long as you can focus longer than him, you can sneak in the grabs and stuff. All of your attacks look/sound the same, so it's hard to know whats coming. Just mindgame/fakeout over the 8 minutes, and just keep running away or snagging those grabs/hits to damage over the entire timer. Don't lose focus (I want to be a Peach that plays like Sonic, "Can't catch me!" *Turnip*)

This post upsets me for a variety of reasons.

1. The whole "all your attacks look the same" thing is played out. You may have just started practicing with speed, but I'm playing with people that I have either been playing with consistently for 2 years, or that have been playing with other sonic mains for the same amount of time. snakeee is an example, hes the only real peach player I have to fight against, and he was playing with malcolm back when he was the best sonic main.
Point is when you actually learn how to fight the character (which this matchup thread assumes) you know what his moves look like and the properties they have. Pikapika probably knows sonic better than half the sonic mains out there, because Ive been playing with him since june of 08.

2. Having more focus than the other player is something that is needed in all matchups, ESPECIALLY with sonic. So saying something that I do constantly anyway doesnt really help me. all of the forethought and option weighing that goes into the sonic game of mentally attacking the other player, is also very taxing on the sonic player himself.

 

[White-Peach]

1) Speed beat me o_o Most of his attacks looked/sounded the same.

2) None of our matches, nay, none of his matches in Pound4 pools (at least our pool) were less than 5minutes EACH. The man has focus, and I think that means a lot with Sonic. If he's at the other edge of the screen, spinning, making that noise for the entire match, it conditions you. You hear it, you expect something familiar to happen. It doesn't. He runs to the other side, rinse repeat. He doesn't approach, instead waiting for you to touchdown so he can zoom across the screen and tag a hit on you and pop you up for another hit, or give him time to run away again. Spinspinspin.

I can only give you what I know. I didn't know how to beat sonic (until Speed told me afterwards >:|) and I lost. He was frustrating every player with (what looked to me) like similar tactics. He was the closest of anyone in our pool to get to beating Ally. I don't know what to tell you, but if my character's attacks all looked and sounded the same, but had different properties, I would abuse the **** out of that. I would practice wearing down the other player by abusing the other player's focus by frustrating them with an aspect of my character that other character's dont have. Hey, Olimar does it. I mean, I (now) think Peach is best played camping over the full 8 minutes with turnips. There's 8 minutes to frustrate and condition the other player, use them. A lot of your attacks look similar. All of my turnips look similar. I won't suddenly stop what I'm doing when I have a good turnip, I'm going to chuck it like it does 7%, but make sure that sucker hits you and recatch it. People take 37% damage all the sudden and it ruins their focus. You can choose not to abuse it, but I will.

 

[PikaPika!]

Ok guys im gonna give you the 100% unstoppable way to not die to sonic. When you see him spinning mad far away from you? you see it? I see it. Ok, now when you see him doing this and believe me they all do this. Don't do a god ****ed thing that has lag or you will be hit. Are you understanding me? It looks like your understanding me but I can see it in your god ****ed eyes, your thinking im gonna run at him at hit him! NO
DONT DO THAT UNLESS YOU KNOW THE MU OR YOU WILL BE HIT. and for the love of god stop getting hit with fsmash, jesus christ.

 

[JayBee]

Ok guys im gonna give you the 100% unstoppable way to not die to sonic. When you see him spinning mad far away from you? you see it? I see it. Ok, now when you see him doing this and believe me they all do this. Don't do a god ****ed thing that has lag or you will be hit. Are you understanding me? It looks like your understanding me but I can see it in your god ****ed eyes, your thinking im gonna run at him at hit him! NO
DONT DO THAT UNLESS YOU KNOW THE MU OR YOU WILL BE HIT. and for the love of god stop getting hit with fsmash, jesus christ.

LOL i like this guy already. you forgot about the whole "if you stay in your shield, Sonic can never kill you part"

Sonic wouldl do best to play very defensively in this matchup, god knows the peach player will. As white peach said, focus is the key for sonic, as i personally think that if sonic can at least make peach's turnip usage less effective, then they both can't really start an offence at each other, leading to a long, long match.
Kojin (Sonic) vs BTC (Peach) 1
Kojin (Sonic) vs BTC (Peach) 2

I have this set from a while back, i remember above all else that it was very defensive and taxing since I dont' normally play run away for 8 minutes strategy, and even that i didn't do as well as i liked. But I think the matchup isn't 60-40 peach if both players play defensive like that. It's just annoying to watch IMO...

looking back tho, he probably didn't know that matchup too well...