Match-Up Re-Discussion: Ike

[Sharky]

I think he meant right at the beginning of the match air

 

[Airborne]

I think he meant right at the beginning of the match air

My statement stands.

 

[F-Tier Player]

starting with egg toss against people that know Yoshi is not that good, Ike can just dash attack through it right at the beginning

Yes, good Ike's know their range is long so they will go for the dash attack, but this all has to do whether or not the Yoshi plays carefully. Zudenka is one who is not very careful sometimes, but makes up for this in tricking the **** out of you.

 

[Z'zgashi]

At 1:58ish where he dtilts, ikes side b, does dtilt always beat it out or only when hes at an angle like that?

 

[Yikarur]

what are you blabbering, my statement was correct and has nothing to do with zoning, if Yoshi throws an egg right at the beginning Ike can dash attack Yoshi, period. Has nothing to do with playing carefully because I talked about that specific moment.

 

[Sharky]

I tried to explain this to him, yika. He just doesn't get it. =/

 

[Airborne]

Ok, since y'all are bashing me, here's what I'm trying to say:

Yoshi's Egg Toss is active between frames 19 and 55, according to our frame data. I DO NOT SEE how Ike is going to run ALLLLL the way across the stage and dash attack us in LESS THAN A SECOND if we throw an egg RIGHT in front of us. Yes, his dash attack takes him like a fifth of the way across Smashville but he still has to deal with ~70% of the stage to dash across with his piss-poor speed. If we throw an egg not too far in front of ourselves, Marth can't even get to us. Period.

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Ike clanking the egg with dash attack? Because, that would be stupid as hell for the Ike, seeing as that we'd have more frame advantage.

Edit Edit: Ok, you can tell I've been playing too much Marvel because I forgot how small SV actually was. XD It's still debatable and needs to be tested.

 

[Sharky]

***** we don't need to test it we've seen it happen lmao

 

[Airborne]

***** we don't need to test it we've seen it happen lmao

Egg toss to the ledge then; HE CAN'T DASH ATTACK YOU THERE ROFLLLL. But yeah, stare the f*cker down.

 

[Yikarur]

facepaaaaaaaaaaalm
we talked about THIS SITUATION because A LOOOOOT YOSHIS start the match with (wide-range) egg toss.
but we shouldn't do this against Ike.

if Ike recovers stupid wie can DJ Nair him out of aether
I played this match-up a looot.

to what match-up number did we agree? o:

 

[Sinister Slush]

I don't think we agreed on A ratio yet but I say it can either go both ways (As in Even) or -1 Ike's Favor.
And now that you mention it, I need to add a Ratio number for Jigglypuff as well, Atleast the option of what we all agreed upon.

 

[Yikarur]

what is a ratio? never heard from

 

[Sinister Slush]

You never heard from awesome face since the last letter you gave him years ago?
SAD STORY BRONY!

I forgot it's No longer ratio (As in 55-45) but -1/= instead. Atleast for this MU's situation.

 

[Z'zgashi]

-1, we both dont have much on each other, but ike wins will sheer kill power

 

[Poltergust]

I believe it to be =; I'll give my reasons later.

(The reason why it's -1 on the BBR MU Chart is because of a compromise between me and Hades, but I personally don't agree with it)

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

curious here. What% does his aether knock us out of DJ? Whoever had Ike never did him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I believe 70-80ish, but Im not positive... I just remember being hit out by ike around that percent...

 

[Sharky]

maybe the initial or final hit, but the swirling part shouldn't knock us out at any normal match % iirc

edit: is 55:45 considered a 0? if so that's my vote, otherwise -1

 

[Z'zgashi]

Don't even think in ratios.

Think in difficulty.

If we have a small disadvantage, -1. A moderate disadvantage, -2. A large disadvantage, -3. 0 means it's even and positive numbers work the same as disadvantages but obviously are scaled in our favor.


And yeah, I was talking about the downward slash of up b. I didnt think the spinning sword ever hit us out unless we should already be dead.

 

[Yikarur]

Yeah I meant you can jump into the spinning and nair him. Thats dead with bad DI and really bad position with good DI.

 

[Sharky]

Don't even think in ratios.

Think in difficulty.

If we have a small disadvantage, -1. A moderate disadvantage, -2. A large disadvantage, -3. 0 means it's even and positive numbers work the same as disadvantages but obviously are scaled in our favor.


And yeah, I was talking about the downward slash of up b. I didnt think the spinning sword ever hit us out unless we should already be dead.

I never looked at ratios as ratios anyway, I think of both systems as pretty much the same thing, just the old system had more variance which makes this conversion really annoying.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I think the mu is pretty close to even, but Ike gets a slight advantage due to sheer kill power. Like Delta said we can be really gay in this mu, as long as we keep moving and keep Ike guessing with proper egg lay mix-ups.


scattered random tidbits:

b-throw->dash attack is almost always guaranteed, do NOT try to jump out of it =/

Ike can recover from a grab release offstage with no jump unless you edgehog.

We can DJ nair Ike out of aether or we can do the egg>grab thing.

If the Ike likes to try jumping out of the CG, mix it up with a full-hop nair..

Ike ***** our spotdodges =(

We could dj out of his jab sometimes, but idk, San likes to bait the jump on me sometimes and hit me with something harder.

I'm torn between giving this a -1 or a 0 for us, Ike does win, but idk if he wins enough to warrant the -1.

Sharky, as the only Yoshi i can think of who plays the Yoshi v san matchup semi often, Can you do a full writeup on this?

 

[Depster]

I play Mr. Doom a decent amount, so I'll work on this too.