Match Up Export: Marth

[Kewkky]

Nope, you can't roll behind him while he does the multihit 4th hit. Every hitbox he does is so closely linked to the other, and considering that invincibility frames starts out at frame 4 during a roll, it's impossible to roll between hits. It's only during the 3rd and 4th hits that you are safest to roll behind him.

 

[fromundaman]

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have phrased that better:

Is there enough time between the 3rd and 4th hit, when we could have grabbed, to roll behind if he does the multi-hit one?

 

[Kewkky]

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have phrased that better:

Is there enough time between the 3rd and 4th hit, when we could have grabbed, to roll behind if he does the multi-hit one?

Ah! Yeah, you can roll behind him, I think I mentioned that in my post, that you can roll behind Marth between the 3rd and 4th hits of his DB and have time to punish with an fsmash... Lemme do the frame data anyway:

-----------------------
Forward b 3:
Hit: 33-37 (We can roll right after frame 37, which is max speed for the attack)
End: 72
(39)>>
Forward b 4:
Hit: 49-54
End: 92 ( 92 - 37 = 55 frames of Marth vulnerability if he does the 4th hit)

Our forward AND back rolls last 31 frames, and we're invincible from 4-20. So, this gives us an optimum advantage of 24 frames. ( 55 - 31 = 24 frame advantage)

Our fsmash hits on frame 14, so... We have a 10-frame error window before Marth can upB/powershield our fsmash. ( 24 - 14 = 10-frame error window)
-----------------------

So yeah, we can punish him with a killing move... Still, I wouldn't depend on it, because a Marth who's about to die will probably never finish a DB combo for fear that you may punish him this way, and he'll just end it mid-combo so you can just grab him instead/slowly do all the hits to give you time to grab him if you shield his first hit.

 

[fromundaman]

All right, thanks. Good to know.

The way I see it, it could be a decent option at mid percents to get him offstage and gimp, but IDK. Again, just another mixup option.

I just like to know what I can and can't do against each character.

 

[Not Gangstakirby]

alot of kirbys use fthrow>uair but in the marth kirby match up marths up b beats it, so why dont any kirbys mindgame the up b and then footstool him while he is in free fall into nair lock > jab lock > fsmash ?

imo this'd make the match up closer


if someone already mentioned this i was too lazy to read the whole thread cuz this idea popped into my head only minutes ago

 

[Sage JoWii]

@ Not GK- >_> Because that's too much effort in a short window of opportunity when we could just hammer/ Charged FSmash his ***** ***. I mean,...it sounds good....in theory. Get a vid up of execution to show it's not impossibly hard and I'll incorporate it in my strategy next time I play a Marth.

 

[i love you]

get this though, because of landing lag from his up b even if you miss the footstool you can still fast fall and fsmash him, the small percent lost from not charging is worth it even just to scare the marth off of using up b to punish the fthrow combo

or even onstage at all really, its a potential 0-80+ combo

 

[Kewkky]

get this though, because of landing lag from his up b even if you miss the footstool you can still fast fall and fsmash him, the small percent lost from not charging is worth it even just to scare the marth off of using up b to punish the fthrow combo

When you charge a smash, you kill earlier. Let's see... If Marth is at 80%, and a charged fsmash will kill him, would it be better to attempt a footstool, or just charge a smash?

Or better yet... If you're better off not pulling off some maneuver that has a very small window for error, why wouldn't you just take the easiest (and optimal) option, which is charging a smash/grabbing and comboing him?


Seeing as you're suggesting it, I trust that you do it regularly to Marths, right? I mean, it WOULD be pretty uncool if you suggest something that not even the best Kirby players can pull off, right?

 

[i love you]

When you charge a smash, you kill earlier. Let's see... If Marth is at 80%, and a charged fsmash will kill him, would it be better to attempt a footstool, or just charge a smash?

Or better yet... If you're better off not pulling off some maneuver that has a very small window for error, why wouldn't you just take the easiest (and optimal) option, which is charging a smash/grabbing and comboing him?


Seeing as you're suggesting it, I trust that you do it regularly to Marths, right? I mean, it WOULD be pretty uncool if you suggest something that not even the best Kirby players can pull off, right?

theres no point in footstool comboing someone who is at high enough to kill percent, and most things that lead to marth throwing out up b dont happen to him at that percent, but if it did happen i would just charge and fsmash, its like 0-50 percent maybe that this is plausible to attempt, and i would do it regularly if utahs marths didnt put up with it now

 

[Sage JoWii]

@ Kewkky- Look ya big meanie,.....jk.

@ Not GK & I love you & whoever it is that doesn't wanna be flamed for suggesting this- Video are it doesn't happen. Besides, low risk for high reward when punishing, NOT flashy-ness, yesh? Also, lmao @ scaring Marth into NOT using UpB. It's like a complete contradiction.

 

[Kewkky]

@ Kewkky- Look ya big meanie,.....jk.

I didn't ban him by the way. :O

I don't want kirbies looking at me like some elitistic nazi abuser.


Abd don't go for the footstool jab lock... Very risky and bad idea. if you miss it, then that was a free hit for you gone out the window.

 

[disgruntled_negro_kirby]

if you do it right you cant miss, the footstool out of FFuair combo i can understand not attempting, but come on, any one who can footstool can do it if its on his free fall :/ it really changes the match up to be in kirbys favor if not makes it 50-50

 

[C~Dog]

Guys footstool is legit combo!

 

[wankstakirby]

true story

 

[MikeKirby]

alot of kirbys use fthrow>uair but in the marth kirby match up marths up b beats it, so why dont any kirbys mindgame the up b and then footstool him while he is in free fall into nair lock > jab lock > fsmash ?

imo this'd make the match up closer


if someone already mentioned this i was too lazy to read the whole thread cuz this idea popped into my head only minutes ago

Actually... I can't believe that never occured to me...

ALKDHF::DLKFJLSDF

*Goes practice the Jab lock combo*

Seriously though, it's a pretty good idea. It makes the Marth's think twice about Up-B-ing. Sure it sounds complicated and it sounds perfect on paper but if you can perfect this... I can't imagine...

 

[mutha phucken gangstakirby]

when you are at low percents marth might not even knock kirby far enough away to be able to avoid being footstooled, though i havent really tried out of it when he lands it

 

[fromundaman]

Quick question: Does the 'footstool lag' (Best word I can think of) even last long enough to get a FFed Nair? Also, how close to the ground do you have to do this? Doing it too early would get you punished hard, since Nair has no hitstun pretty much. Also, Kirby's jab lock is kinda hard to perform IMO, but then again, I'm bad at jab locks in general.

 

[MikeKirby]

Boy... it is hard to pull off...
I haven't even been able to start the jab lock after the footstool lag frames. Not sure if it is possible. I won't give up though.

 

[Kewkky]

It's not worth it, MikeKirby... In the middle of a heated match against a good Marth player, he'll be spacing all of his things and making sure you stay away from him, keeping you out of footstool range anyway... The only time you might be able to do it is if he tries to upB you while on-stage and he misses, and if you realize fast enough and are already on your way to starting the footstool. Seriously, it's a wiser idea to just punish him like we always do, and hit him with the smartest option (dsmash/fsmash/usmash to kill, grab for damage-racking).

 

[fromundaman]

Personally, I like punishing with air hammer, since we have enough aerial mobility with it to follow if he tries to DI away, not to mention it does decent damage and can kill. Usmash is a good option too though. Gets him back in the air.

 

[Just Another Typical Negro Kirby]

Quick question: Does the 'footstool lag' (Best word I can think of) even last long enough to get a FFed Nair? Also, how close to the ground do you have to do this? Doing it too early would get you punished hard, since Nair has no hitstun pretty much. Also, Kirby's jab lock is kinda hard to perform IMO, but then again, I'm bad at jab locks in general.

the nair hit is a jablock hit and it has to be enough distance where he cant jump out of the lag

Boy... it is hard to pull off...
I haven't even been able to start the jab lock after the footstool lag frames. Not sure if it is possible. I won't give up though.

its been proven possible to do FFuair>touch the ground>footstool>jablock by gonzo, look on youtube.

It's not worth it, MikeKirby... In the middle of a heated match against a good Marth player, he'll be spacing all of his things and making sure you stay away from him, keeping you out of footstool range anyway... The only time you might be able to do it is if he tries to upB you while on-stage and he misses, and if you realize fast enough and are already on your way to starting the footstool. Seriously, it's a wiser idea to just punish him like we always do, and hit him with the smartest option (dsmash/fsmash/usmash to kill, grab for damage-racking).

you are only going to footstool marth out of his up b endlag is exactly what i have been saying, its more worth it just takes more practice

 

[fromundaman]

the nair hit is a jablock hit and it has to be enough distance where he cant jump out of the lag

That didn't answer my question at all...

 

[gangsterrrrrrkirby]

you said it doesnt have knockback, its the lack of knock back that makes this combo work.

oh and it wont hit marth before he hits the ground. ever.

 

[fromundaman]

No, I asked if there was enough time to hit with a Nair after a FS both after Marth hits the ground, but before he can react (Not sure how long time footstools give for jablocks).

 

[gkirbz 54]

yes if its a sh footstool, an fh footstool he will get up

 

[PEACE7]

We can't follow up at 0% with any throw :/ Marth can jump out before we u-tilt after a d-throw, even if we buffer it. Luckily most Marth's don't know this. But yeah, say goodbye to throw combos.

Is this true?

 

[Kewkky]

Yep, it's true. Marth has a slow fallspeed and is quite spacey, so strings leading into- and out-of-utilt don't work too well on you. Also, you can upB out of our fthrow>uair before our uair hits you, so not even that combo works on you.

HOWEVER! Bthrow>uair/bair (depending on your DI) works from what I've experienced (I always do it around lower-mid %s, so I don't know about low %s).

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

What is a good way in edge guarding Marth for you guys? I usually try for a Bair but I do keep in account he could use his Dolphin Slash, Nair, or Fair to avoid being hit from the side or from above. If he is below I'll try Bair but if he is high above the stage I'll go for Bair or Fair. Depending on the spacing and timing I'll use the hammer.

 

[Kewkky]

A good way to edgeguard Marth, huh? In my opinion, either do nothing and let him come back, or edgehog. You can go offstage and try to go for a dair/bair if you make it to him, I've done so quite a few times, but against better opponents it usually ends up in me being hit by his upB or a fair before I connect anything. It hurts you less and hurts him more to wait for him to get to the ledge, then not let him set foot on the stage.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

It maybe risky but what about inhaling him while mid air then spitting him out further away from the stage? I would think if he used all his jumps the Dolphin Slash wouldn't be enough to give him the distance to make it back or the edge but if someone he could reach it edge hog him there. I'm just throwing guestimates and thoughts out here.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Nah man, just space yourself so your toes will hangover when you DSmash.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Nah man, just space yourself so your toes will hangover when you DSmash.

Hmm...I'll go with that. I'll ask my friend to use Marth and play me just for sport and for the practice.

 

[Suspect]

97-3 marth