Match-Up Discussion #35! Lucas

[e__]

The matchup is 65:35 Marth's favor. If the Lucas knows what he's doing with spacing it's actually not all that bad. Fair can hit PK Fire so that the burst doesn't hit you if you space it right. Perfect shielding PK Fires is easy. A good Lucas player will work the lag from it and his spacing so that even were you to rush in after perfect shielding he can jab you as you approach. Dair is not counterable when done correctly. Up B does not stop autocancelled Nair combos if they're done correctly. I don't mess around with unautocancelled Nair combos because they're easily stopped by shielding things. Autocancelled Nairs repeated with proper spacing once you've shielded is only avoided by rolling. Nair has low priority though so if you predict it and are watching your spacing you can always outprioritize it easily. Lucas's game will revolve a lot around Dair combos, well spaced PK Fire and lots of edgeguarding. Marth is very vulnerable during his recovery. Lucas should never get edgeguarded by Marth. His recovery is long distance enough to avoid it if you know what you're doing.

Using Marth, I would suggest more ground approaches because it's easier to get inside Lucas's safety zone that way. With Marth in the air Lucas has more opportunities to hit with tilts and PK Fires. If the Lucas player isn't spamming smashes all over the place you won't get too many opporunities for a grab. Lucas's aerial approaches are safe if you use the right ones and space them just right. Grab release infinite is very bad for Lucas but we'll pick counterpick stages such as Brinstar or Norfair to help us out there. Marth is very beatable for Lucas. Don't act like winning is a foregone conclusion because it definetly is not. I would argue that Lucas does significantly better against Marth than Ness does but that's not really what this thread is about.

Also watch out for cross stage spamming. PKT1 and PK Freeze can both be used to camp from across large stages. These are both for the most part easily avoidable as long as you don't let them catch you offguard. Again, both of these are not easily punishable if the Lucas player is using them correctly. PKT1 can't be perfect shielded if directed correctly but you can hit it with an attack and might be able to make it there to punish in time if there isn't too much distance. Play it safe against PK Freeze. There is hardly any lag after the explosion for Lucas so he can be waiting with jabs if you're slow on punishment. In fact I use PK Freeze to bait opponents into walking right into my jabs all the time.

Hope this helps. Don't underestimate Lucas. You have the advantage by a good margin. Don't get cocky.

I like how I found out about these AFTER our money matches...

I'm going to have to remember this for next Wednesday.

 

[MK26]

stop comparing Lucas with Ness, please
Grab-release is not as bad as it is with Ness.

lol@irony.

 

[prOAPC]

lol i know XD

 

[Tyr_03]

I don't have wifi so I can't play anyone but I love doing Lucas vs. Marth matches. I'll money match anyone who's ever in the Cincinnati area if there's a convenient time and place. Marth players overestimate themselves against Lucas. It's fun to put them in their place.

 

[Mumble]

u smash common in Team? yes. but i rarely use u smash.

A lot more common in teams. I've seen Lucas spam Usmash, trying to get someone off a grab by their partner, etc.

I've seen it alot in singles too, just not nearly as much spam (if that makes sense) as in teams.

 

[PKNintendo]

Nevermind.

 

[prOAPC]

It's fun to put them in their place.

that's why i chose Marth in the Operation L.U.C.A.S.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

I lost last night with my marth against my rival, we were hanging out and I didnt win that much... is there any way to train harder than a lvl 9... i need to be faster, more unpredicatble... my depth of skill is high but never high enough for this kid... if im pro hes more pro... ****it...

 

[feardragon64]

I lost last night with my marth against my rival, we were hanging out and I didnt win that much... is there any way to train harder than a lvl 9... i need to be faster, more unpredicatble... my depth of skill is high but never high enough for this kid... if im pro hes more pro... ****it...

Don't play level 9's. It'll screw you up since they have inhuman reaction time and you'll just be conditioned to roll dodge everywhere, which doesn't work against good players.

Read online, watch videos and play against HUMAN players. If you really don't have anyone else to play, play against level 3 computers and take it seriously.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

why lvl 3's instead of lvl 1's? is there a reason why... also is online a bad way to train?

 

[feardragon64]

why lvl 3's instead of lvl 1's? is there a reason why... also is online a bad way to train?

Level 1's are too useless. Level 3's are probably the closest you can get to human reaction time. Also be sure to minimize rolling during these matches. It's a bad habit.

Online will create lag for you. Marth is probably one of the most gimped characters online because your spacing becomes really messed up. You can play online, but realize it won't reflect what an offline battle would be like.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

yeah.. ok sounds good

sounds good man... thanks

 

[prOAPC]

@S.B.Soldier: don't even train, Lucas will own you always




lol j/k

 

[Pierce7d]

Sorry to contribute to the off-topicness, but I practice making good decisions, better spacing, and being fast, by doing 2v1 against level 9s.

Lucas's Usmash has ******** upward range, far above what you can see, and lasts for a while, so it's easy to fall right into. He MIGHT use this is you're way above him. It's range is about half way between the floor and the magnifying glass line of FD (not tested, but it's huge like that)

I believe it also starts below Lucas as well.

Dolphin Slash OOS WILL punish Lucas' Nair if you do it before the attack ends. Doesn't matter if it autocancels or not if he's in mid attack. You must react quickly.

 

[marth69]

the bad thing about facing lucas is that he spams pk thunder and fire

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

We are talking about top level players, not the CPU.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

good advice, gotta go work on that too i guess

 

[ToxiCrow]

Uh, you can't run into hit PKThunder for a guaranteed K.O.. This is Lucas, not Ness. The PK Thunder will just own you as Lucas recovers, by going right through you.

Really? I could of sworn that works on Lucas as well. Learn something new everyday.

it only works if u jump into as soon as the ball leaves Lucas's head. if u do it at that time, it wont go through you. chances are you wouldn't even need to do this because marth can easily ko lucas.
this is pretty much an easy win for marth.

 

[hippyman69]

If lucas usmashes, and you are on the top plaatform on battlefield, you WILL get hit. also if lucas is near the edge and you are holding on to the ledge. you will also be hit. lol. lucas is funny that way

 

[ToxiCrow]

If lucas usmashes, and you are on the top plaatform on battlefield, you WILL get hit. also if lucas is near the edge and you are holding on to the ledge. you will also be hit. lol. lucas is funny that way

yeah but it barely hits you. i was experimenting with this, and lucas would hav to fully charge his upsmash to hit someone on the top platform. and no smart player would stand there letting lucas charge his upsmash without trying to hit hm.

 

[illinialex24]

Level 1's are too useless. Level 3's are probably the closest you can get to human reaction time. Also be sure to minimize rolling during these matches. It's a bad habit.

Online will create lag for you. Marth is probably one of the most gimped characters online because your spacing becomes really messed up. You can play online, but realize it won't reflect what an offline battle would be like.

This is very true but CPU's in general suck. At all possibilities try to train on humans. I mean, 3 stocking a lv 9 is expected and its not like they fight realistically, so whats the point.